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Political Roundtable Part XXVI

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#921 » by I_Like_Dirt » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:16 pm

Pointgod wrote:Trump needs to run for a second term. It’s the only thing keeping him from serving jail time. His only hope is to run out the statute of limitations on his crimes.


I'm not so sure that's true. The fact that he won is probably enough. I'm not convinced the Democrats will be interested in chasing him once he's out of office. They're more interested in chasing him in-office provided they can find a way to actually do it, which they can't. Chase him out of office and basically every president ever is going to wind up prosecuted once they leave office. The Republicans will go after Obama and even Hillary even though she didn't win. And the Supreme Court is already extremely politicized. This would make it much, much worse.

I've been saying this since before Trump won the nomination and nobody seemed to realized the implications of it. The president doesn't actually have immunity from prosecution as is the case in some other countries but he essentially does regardless and there is sort of an uneasy political truce that basically makes them largely immune from prosecution outside of the presidency. Nate admitted as much at the time, too, though he wasn't willing to say it in so many words but the reality is that because there is always going to be a massive following that doesn't believe in prosecution, basically anything goes in politics. The only way Trump is vulnerable is if like 90% of the population turns against him. The senate will stay Republican controlled which means impeachment won't happen and once he's out of office this is going to be more about letting the past go than it is some soul-searching time to figure out how this could have happened. I'm guessing that's where Trump was a touch nervous about actually going to war and was probably advised against it by his political strategists despite pushes from the war hawks around him. A war risks an unnecessary situation where people might view him differently and he doesn't want that.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#922 » by Zonkerbl » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:50 pm

Pretty sure Trump has asked DOJ to prosecute HRC *several* times and he was just flatly refused.

But I'm also pretty sure impeachable offenses HAVE TO BE PROSECUTED by Congress. It's not that Trump has a temporary immunity that lifts once he's not POTUS anymore. Any crimes he commits *while President* have to be prosecuted by the Senate. Full stop. Congress is the only judicial body with authority over the President's behavior.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#923 » by I_Like_Dirt » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:01 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:Pretty sure Trump has asked DOJ to prosecute HRC *several* times and he was just flatly refused.

But I'm also pretty sure impeachable offenses HAVE TO BE PROSECUTED by Congress. It's not that Trump has a temporary immunity that lifts once he's not POTUS anymore. Any crimes he commits *while President* have to be prosecuted by the Senate. Full stop. Congress is the only judicial body with authority over the President's behavior.


Sure. And how does that de facto play out?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#924 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:44 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
Pointgod wrote:Trump needs to run for a second term. It’s the only thing keeping him from serving jail time. His only hope is to run out the statute of limitations on his crimes.



There is another very likely scenario. Receiving the Richard Nixon treatment and receiving a Presidential Pardon from his predecessor.

I wouldn't put it past him to run again next year, lose in November, then resign in December with the understanding that 'President Pence' pardons him for all past federal offenses.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#925 » by doclinkin » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:28 pm

I think there's fear among the billionaire set that if Trump is run out of office on a wave of progressive pols (Bernie and Warren especially but the next wave of AOC's and all) then there will be political will to prosecute all of the malefactors who have run our political body (and environment, etc) into the ground. No more free passes for monopolies and mega-corporations. They will literally pay for what has been done to this country.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#926 » by I_Like_Dirt » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:48 pm

doclinkin wrote:I think there's fear among the billionaire set that if Trump is run out of office on a wave of progressive pols (Bernie and Warren especially but the next wave of AOC's and all) then there will be political will to prosecute all of the malefactors who have run our political body (and environment, etc) into the ground. No more free passes for monopolies and mega-corporations. They will literally pay for what has been done to this country.


I think so, too. That's where there is political will to charge in and I think a lot of more centrist Democrats fear that side of them, too.

Where I think the progressives are going to run into trouble is that it isn't just evil corporations doing this and buying political will through advertising and such. That's totally a big part of it but there is a lot of people out there who have no real issues with the status quo and don't want to see effort towards such a significant restructuring.

I'm also somewhat intrigued by the current clash we're seeing between libertarianism and progressives. Progressives seem to be a pretty serious response to libertarians and we see a lot of young white males in particular feeling isolated and wondering why that might be when at heart they support people doing whatever they want so long as they don't hurt anybody, completely missing the point that actions and inactions actually do hurt others even if it isn't intended and in ways we might not realize or feel powerless to fight against and it's everything to do with personal responsibility rather than simply being in a position not to worry about that kind of stuff.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#927 » by Zonkerbl » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:11 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:Pretty sure Trump has asked DOJ to prosecute HRC *several* times and he was just flatly refused.

But I'm also pretty sure impeachable offenses HAVE TO BE PROSECUTED by Congress. It's not that Trump has a temporary immunity that lifts once he's not POTUS anymore. Any crimes he commits *while President* have to be prosecuted by the Senate. Full stop. Congress is the only judicial body with authority over the President's behavior.


Sure. And how does that de facto play out?


What do you mean? It plays out the way I described it - if Congress doesn't impeach, Trump gets off scott free.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#928 » by pancakes3 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:36 pm

I don't see how or why there won't be a slate of charges raised against Trump the second he leaves office.

and yeah, it's clear that the wealthy *hate* the populist movement, and you can see it by how much Buttigieg has raised despite trailing in popularity. he's probably made it very clear to certain donors that he's willing to trade in liberal centrism/incrementalism.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#929 » by Pointgod » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:10 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
Pointgod wrote:Trump needs to run for a second term. It’s the only thing keeping him from serving jail time. His only hope is to run out the statute of limitations on his crimes.


I'm not so sure that's true. The fact that he won is probably enough. I'm not convinced the Democrats will be interested in chasing him once he's out of office. They're more interested in chasing him in-office provided they can find a way to actually do it, which they can't. Chase him out of office and basically every president ever is going to wind up prosecuted once they leave office. The Republicans will go after Obama and even Hillary even though she didn't win. And the Supreme Court is already extremely politicized. This would make it much, much worse.

I've been saying this since before Trump won the nomination and nobody seemed to realized the implications of it. The president doesn't actually have immunity from prosecution as is the case in some other countries but he essentially does regardless and there is sort of an uneasy political truce that basically makes them largely immune from prosecution outside of the presidency. Nate admitted as much at the time, too, though he wasn't willing to say it in so many words but the reality is that because there is always going to be a massive following that doesn't believe in prosecution, basically anything goes in politics. The only way Trump is vulnerable is if like 90% of the population turns against him. The senate will stay Republican controlled which means impeachment won't happen and once he's out of office this is going to be more about letting the past go than it is some soul-searching time to figure out how this could have happened. I'm guessing that's where Trump was a touch nervous about actually going to war and was probably advised against it by his political strategists despite pushes from the war hawks around him. A war risks an unnecessary situation where people might view him differently and he doesn't want that.


Trump has crimes before he became President. Remember Michael Cohen is sitting in jail for 3 years because of the hush money payments made on behalf of Stormy Daniels. Also think of what happens when state AGs start looking into his shady business dealings. He’ll never get prosecuted for his crimes as President (this is what impeachment is for) but unless the statute of limitations run out the State AG is going to hammer him hard. Who wouldn’t want taking down Donald Trump on their resume.

This isn’t a tit for tat thing. You don’t think Trump would have prosecuted the Clintons if they found a single piece of proof that the Clinton Foundation was engaging in illegal activities?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#930 » by Pointgod » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:13 pm

doclinkin wrote:I think there's fear among the billionaire set that if Trump is run out of office on a wave of progressive pols (Bernie and Warren especially but the next wave of AOC's and all) then there will be political will to prosecute all of the malefactors who have run our political body (and environment, etc) into the ground. No more free passes for monopolies and mega-corporations. They will literally pay for what has been done to this country.


Yeah that’s Progressive fairytale. These guys aren’t going to be prosecuted because a lot of what they did was either legal or just skirts the morally grey area. The only way to get some kind of restitution is to put power back in the hands of Democrats for a loooong time. That means Liberals actually have to get engaged, show up to vote and register people. It’s an uphill climb.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#931 » by doclinkin » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:41 pm

Pointgod wrote:
doclinkin wrote:I think there's fear among the billionaire set that if Trump is run out of office on a wave of progressive pols (Bernie and Warren especially but the next wave of AOC's and all) then there will be political will to prosecute all of the malefactors who have run our political body (and environment, etc) into the ground. No more free passes for monopolies and mega-corporations. They will literally pay for what has been done to this country.


Yeah that’s Progressive fairytale. These guys aren’t going to be prosecuted because a lot of what they did was either legal or just skirts the morally grey area. The only way to get some kind of restitution is to put power back in the hands of Democrats for a loooong time. That means Liberals actually have to get engaged, show up to vote and register people. It’s an uphill climb.


Prosecuted or not, even if the laws were simply enforced we would not be in the heap of **** we're in now. Way back under Ronald Reagan Ma Bell AT&T was broken up for being a monopoly and behaving as such. Today Comcast, The Walt Disney Company, AT&T, National Amusements (owns CBS Corporation and Viacom) and Fox corporation own over 90% of our media. Amazon and Walmart have killed off the mom and pop business, and American manufacturing in general. This is not the pull yourself up by the bootstraps America that people believe in. How to put the toothpaste back in the tube, who knows, but this America that cares more for shareholders than it does a guy earning a paycheck and paying bills, well, it's not the way to go.

I think putting the right person in that bully pulpit would help. Except of course that it has to be filtered through the media to reach people. On the other hand the rage and dissatisfaction that elected Trump is as strong as ever. It seems to me you can tap into that by saying: look how about this time we don't elect a billionaire businessman to look out for your paycheck. Because he's going to look out for billionaire businesses first. And then lie to you about it and tell you it's a good deal. And as he always does he will cut himself a deal and then stiff you and leave you with the bill to pay. That and bankruptcy are how he built his business. Is that the American way?

So, I think the argument can be made in a clear enough way that people will get it enough to vote for the right people. The trick is can you keep their attention long enough that you can get them to vote in midterms or the next election. Because yes, there's a lot of damage to undo. And powerful forces working against, well, pretty much everybody but shareholders.

One way to keep the public attention though would be to find the fatcats who screw the little guy and publicly haul them into the light. To point out the Epsteins who get a slap on the wrist for abusing out girls, just because Billionaires and friends of Donald Trump have different rules than we do. I think there is a Let Them Eat Cake mindset in the ruling class where they don't really understand that Bread and Circus will only keep the populace confused for so long. At some point you better start living up to your ideals or yeah, Goths and Visigoths and Zealots and bombers show up in the timeline of history.

High profile legal executions of the guys who ruin life for ordinary Joes just may act as a proper release valve and caution the scumbags not to think they will get away with it.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#932 » by montestewart » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:48 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:Pretty sure Trump has asked DOJ to prosecute HRC *several* times and he was just flatly refused.

But I'm also pretty sure impeachable offenses HAVE TO BE PROSECUTED by Congress. It's not that Trump has a temporary immunity that lifts once he's not POTUS anymore. Any crimes he commits *while President* have to be prosecuted by the Senate. Full stop. Congress is the only judicial body with authority over the President's behavior.


Sure. And how does that de facto play out?


What do you mean? It plays out the way I described it - if Congress doesn't impeach, Trump gets off scott free.


What is the authority for that assertion? Not saying you’re wrong, but I’m not familiar with that. Impeachment subjects someone to Senate trial and, if convicted there, removal from office and subject to further prosecution. It seems the end of a term would accomplish the same thing.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#933 » by verbal8 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:59 am

Pointgod wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:
Pointgod wrote:Trump needs to run for a second term. It’s the only thing keeping him from serving jail time. His only hope is to run out the statute of limitations on his crimes.


I'm not so sure that's true. The fact that he won is probably enough. I'm not convinced the Democrats will be interested in chasing him once he's out of office. They're more interested in chasing him in-office provided they can find a way to actually do it, which they can't. Chase him out of office and basically every president ever is going to wind up prosecuted once they leave office. The Republicans will go after Obama and even Hillary even though she didn't win. And the Supreme Court is already extremely politicized. This would make it much, much worse.

I've been saying this since before Trump won the nomination and nobody seemed to realized the implications of it. The president doesn't actually have immunity from prosecution as is the case in some other countries but he essentially does regardless and there is sort of an uneasy political truce that basically makes them largely immune from prosecution outside of the presidency. Nate admitted as much at the time, too, though he wasn't willing to say it in so many words but the reality is that because there is always going to be a massive following that doesn't believe in prosecution, basically anything goes in politics. The only way Trump is vulnerable is if like 90% of the population turns against him. The senate will stay Republican controlled which means impeachment won't happen and once he's out of office this is going to be more about letting the past go than it is some soul-searching time to figure out how this could have happened. I'm guessing that's where Trump was a touch nervous about actually going to war and was probably advised against it by his political strategists despite pushes from the war hawks around him. A war risks an unnecessary situation where people might view him differently and he doesn't want that.


Trump has crimes before he became President. Remember Michael Cohen is sitting in jail for 3 years because of the hush money payments made on behalf of Stormy Daniels. Also think of what happens when state AGs start looking into his shady business dealings. He’ll never get prosecuted for his crimes as President (this is what impeachment is for) but unless the statute of limitations run out the State AG is going to hammer him hard. Who wouldn’t want taking down Donald Trump on their resume.

This isn’t a tit for tat thing. You don’t think Trump would have prosecuted the Clintons if they found a single piece of proof that the Clinton Foundation was engaging in illegal activities?


This is why I think impeachment needs to happen.

Sure the Senate is highly likely to ignore mountains of evidence of criminality, but it makes the job of say the NY AG much easier when Trump leaves office. Even if the charges are different conduct, it is clear it is criminality, not political payback that is driving the charges.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#934 » by Zonkerbl » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:51 am

montestewart wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:
Sure. And how does that de facto play out?


What do you mean? It plays out the way I described it - if Congress doesn't impeach, Trump gets off scott free.


What is the authority for that assertion? Not saying you’re wrong, but I’m not familiar with that. Impeachment subjects someone to Senate trial and, if convicted there, removal from office and subject to further prosecution. It seems the end of a term would accomplish the same thing.


If you read the Mueller report, Mueller argues that he can't indict the President because the only judicial body with jurisdiction over him is Congress. That legal jurisdictional issue doesn't just disappear when you're no longer President. A crime committed while President remains under the jurisdiction of Congress no matter what day it is. Once the President is no longer President and can't be impeached there's literally no remedy left. He gets away with it. (Which in my mind is another argument why the DOJ memo saying the President is immune from prosecution is garbage)

Well, if I was a defense lawyer I'd certainly argue this. None of this has been tested in court yet, so who knows.

But as Pointgod points out there are state level crimes he's still exposed to. We'll see I guess.

[edit to add:Maybe you're right, once the immunity of being President ends you are subject to indictment. The Trump administration has argued the point my way for their justification for executive immunity on everything, so I'll guess we'll find out the answer soon enough]
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#935 » by pancakes3 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:18 am

the memo is limited to sitting presidents on the grounds that a criminal case would interfere with the president's ability to perform his constitutionally required duties. once he's out of office, that memo doesn't apply - both explicitly as well as it underlying reasoning. furthermore, the decision to adhere to that memo is discretionary, on the whims of the attorney general. i can see why an AG wouldn't want to set precedent in going after former presidents but there's nothing stopping it either.

and not for nothing, i trust the FBI/DOJ to fact-gather the requisite evidence to build a case much more than Congress to do the same for an impeachment.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#936 » by Zonkerbl » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:28 am

And you'd think police officers have a duty to protect people who ask them for help, it being in the motto and all, and yet somehow...
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#937 » by Pointgod » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:13 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
doclinkin wrote:I think there's fear among the billionaire set that if Trump is run out of office on a wave of progressive pols (Bernie and Warren especially but the next wave of AOC's and all) then there will be political will to prosecute all of the malefactors who have run our political body (and environment, etc) into the ground. No more free passes for monopolies and mega-corporations. They will literally pay for what has been done to this country.


Yeah that’s Progressive fairytale. These guys aren’t going to be prosecuted because a lot of what they did was either legal or just skirts the morally grey area. The only way to get some kind of restitution is to put power back in the hands of Democrats for a loooong time. That means Liberals actually have to get engaged, show up to vote and register people. It’s an uphill climb.


Prosecuted or not, even if the laws were simply enforced we would not be in the heap of **** we're in now. Way back under Ronald Reagan Ma Bell AT&T was broken up for being a monopoly and behaving as such. Today Comcast, The Walt Disney Company, AT&T, National Amusements (owns CBS Corporation and Viacom) and Fox corporation own over 90% of our media. Amazon and Walmart have killed off the mom and pop business, and American manufacturing in general. This is not the pull yourself up by the bootstraps America that people believe in. How to put the toothpaste back in the tube, who knows, but this America that cares more for shareholders than it does a guy earning a paycheck and paying bills, well, it's not the way to go.

I think putting the right person in that bully pulpit would help. Except of course that it has to be filtered through the media to reach people. On the other hand the rage and dissatisfaction that elected Trump is as strong as ever. It seems to me you can tap into that by saying: look how about this time we don't elect a billionaire businessman to look out for your paycheck. Because he's going to look out for billionaire businesses first. And then lie to you about it and tell you it's a good deal. And as he always does he will cut himself a deal and then stiff you and leave you with the bill to pay. That and bankruptcy are how he built his business. Is that the American way?

So, I think the argument can be made in a clear enough way that people will get it enough to vote for the right people. The trick is can you keep their attention long enough that you can get them to vote in midterms or the next election. Because yes, there's a lot of damage to undo. And powerful forces working against, well, pretty much everybody but shareholders.

One way to keep the public attention though would be to find the fatcats who screw the little guy and publicly haul them into the light. To point out the Epsteins who get a slap on the wrist for abusing out girls, just because Billionaires and friends of Donald Trump have different rules than we do. I think there is a Let Them Eat Cake mindset in the ruling class where they don't really understand that Bread and Circus will only keep the populace confused for so long. At some point you better start living up to your ideals or yeah, Goths and Visigoths and Zealots and bombers show up in the timeline of history.

High profile legal executions of the guys who ruin life for ordinary Joes just may act as a proper release valve and caution the scumbags not to think they will get away with it.


I agree that you need to strengthen laws but don’t for a second believe any politician that says they’re going to jail and prosecute billionaires. It’s just fantasy because a lot of what these guys do although shady and immoral is legal precisely because the laws are so weak. That’s why a politician like Elizabeth Warren has it right. Go after billionaires but you have to do it by strengthening existing laws and putting policies in place to hold them accountable. Never trust a demagogue who claims that they can just throw whoever they want in jail. It doesn’t work like that and you shouldn’t want it to work like that.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#938 » by Pointgod » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:15 pm

verbal8 wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:
I'm not so sure that's true. The fact that he won is probably enough. I'm not convinced the Democrats will be interested in chasing him once he's out of office. They're more interested in chasing him in-office provided they can find a way to actually do it, which they can't. Chase him out of office and basically every president ever is going to wind up prosecuted once they leave office. The Republicans will go after Obama and even Hillary even though she didn't win. And the Supreme Court is already extremely politicized. This would make it much, much worse.

I've been saying this since before Trump won the nomination and nobody seemed to realized the implications of it. The president doesn't actually have immunity from prosecution as is the case in some other countries but he essentially does regardless and there is sort of an uneasy political truce that basically makes them largely immune from prosecution outside of the presidency. Nate admitted as much at the time, too, though he wasn't willing to say it in so many words but the reality is that because there is always going to be a massive following that doesn't believe in prosecution, basically anything goes in politics. The only way Trump is vulnerable is if like 90% of the population turns against him. The senate will stay Republican controlled which means impeachment won't happen and once he's out of office this is going to be more about letting the past go than it is some soul-searching time to figure out how this could have happened. I'm guessing that's where Trump was a touch nervous about actually going to war and was probably advised against it by his political strategists despite pushes from the war hawks around him. A war risks an unnecessary situation where people might view him differently and he doesn't want that.


Trump has crimes before he became President. Remember Michael Cohen is sitting in jail for 3 years because of the hush money payments made on behalf of Stormy Daniels. Also think of what happens when state AGs start looking into his shady business dealings. He’ll never get prosecuted for his crimes as President (this is what impeachment is for) but unless the statute of limitations run out the State AG is going to hammer him hard. Who wouldn’t want taking down Donald Trump on their resume.

This isn’t a tit for tat thing. You don’t think Trump would have prosecuted the Clintons if they found a single piece of proof that the Clinton Foundation was engaging in illegal activities?


This is why I think impeachment needs to happen.

Sure the Senate is highly likely to ignore mountains of evidence of criminality, but it makes the job of say the NY AG much easier when Trump leaves office. Even if the charges are different conduct, it is clear it is criminality, not political payback that is driving the charges.


Exactly. If Congress doesn’t impeach they’re not doing their jobs or doing what’s right for the country.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#939 » by doclinkin » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:32 pm

Pointgod wrote:I agree that you need to strengthen laws but don’t for a second believe any politician that says they’re going to jail and prosecute billionaires. It’s just fantasy because a lot of what these guys do although shady and immoral is legal precisely because the laws are so weak. That’s why a politician like Elizabeth Warren has it right. Go after billionaires but you have to do it by strengthening existing laws and putting policies in place to hold them accountable. Never trust a demagogue who claims that they can just throw whoever they want in jail. It doesn’t work like that and you shouldn’t want it to work like that.



You seem to be deliberately misunderstanding me when in fact we agree. No one said jail all billionaires simply for being billionaires. The point is to jail criminals. Regardless of whether or not they are billionaires. Of course you have to strengthen the laws. Then you have to enforce them. In some cases that involves long standing malefactors who do skirt the law. And going forward it means weaponizing the IRS and coordinating with the DOJ to track down the biggest most dangerous offenders. Is it your assertion that no corporation or CEO has broken any laws? Yes the laws are weak. They also break the laws that are on the books.

We have had a drug czar and War on Drugs that primarily served to feed a corporate jail system. I'm not saying create a Corruptoion Czar. But I am saying the greatest danger to our economy and our middle class has been the inability to check the growth of larger and larger corporations so that our political class primarily serves them instead of their voting constituents.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXVI 

Post#940 » by I_Like_Dirt » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:41 pm

Pointgod wrote:Trump has crimes before he became President. Remember Michael Cohen is sitting in jail for 3 years because of the hush money payments made on behalf of Stormy Daniels. Also think of what happens when state AGs start looking into his shady business dealings. He’ll never get prosecuted for his crimes as President (this is what impeachment is for) but unless the statute of limitations run out the State AG is going to hammer him hard. Who wouldn’t want taking down Donald Trump on their resume.

This isn’t a tit for tat thing. You don’t think Trump would have prosecuted the Clintons if they found a single piece of proof that the Clinton Foundation was engaging in illegal activities?


No, I'm not actually sure Trump would have done that. He may have brought up a bunch of complaints and talked a big game and even released some minor details and complained about a corrupt political process and blamed the Democrats for that but I'm not at all convinced Trump would have been interested in opening the Pandora's box of prosecuting for non-profit improprieties on behalf of foundations of former presidents. He has a pretty strong disincentive to do that while also having a strong incentive to garner political points by grandstanding.

And yes, Trump has crimes before becoming president and Michael Cohen is in jail. Trump would be waaaaaay more vulnerable for his crimes right about now had he not run for president. Yeah, he caught himself in a bunch of obstruction stuff along the way and some campaign finance improprieties that I'm sure a lot of Republicans would have preferred to have kept quiet but he's way harder to actually hold accountable at this point. It can be done but there are all sorts of political ramifications and requirements that need to be met at this point, along with all the legal stuff. Just because people want to pretend that this is simple and crimes should be punished and Pelosi is wrong for not pushing impeachment doesn't mean they're actually right about it. This whole situation is a complicated mess and times have changed since Nixon - in some ways for the better and in some ways for the worse.
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