Other teams' 2019 draft: who did well? Who didn't?

payitforward · Post #1 » by **payitforward** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:06 pm

I started this thread after reading the second sentence of this article: https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/nba-insider-tom-haberstroh/winners-and-losers-2019-nba-draft -- in the 2019 NBA draft, "...only 10 of the final 41 picks weren't traded."

He needs some arithmetical help -- looks to me like it was 20 not 10. Still, since 5 of the first 18 were also traded, that means a total of 26 out of 60 picks were moved from one to team to another (& several times to a third!!) on draft night. I can't remember anything of this kind ever happening -- can you?

NO is Haberstroh's big winner -- actually, pretty much everybody's big winner:

Read on Twitter

Atlanta as well -- even though they seem to have been completely rooked in their draft pick trade w/ NO, at least based on Pelton: they gave up 83 Pelton points to get 62.25 back (plus a future R2 pick which will add a few pelton points for the Hawks) -- plus the Hawks took on Solomon Hill's $13m expiring salary, a huge benefit for NO. Add their picking Hunter #4, Reddish #10, & Fernando #34 I don't know what to make of their draft.

Not to mention that they traded 3 high R2 picks in the next couple of years to Philly for the #34 pick (to replace the #35 they gave in the NO trade).

Meaning that it really is more like Atlanta gave NO the #8 pick, the #17 pick, 2 high R2 picks next year, & 1 high R2 pick in 2021 -- to move up 4 picks this year & get a likely lower R2 back next year!!

Travis Schlenk is a smart guy, but... I don't know about this move.

Who else did well or badly???

doclinkin · Post #2 » by **doclinkin** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:23 pm

Spurs picked up the other multi tooled Luka. I’m on record saying Samanic will be good. But I’d trust the Spurs scouting better than mine. They coveted him all year. Sending Buford and scouts to watch his games.

Then in the second round they picked up a productive freshman who was one of the Win share/BPM youth allstars in Keldon Johnson. When trying to gauge who will be good based on the idea that young players who get it have a higher upside than seasoned players who may show better current production I sorted the stats a few times hunting for freshman standouts and compared them with prior years freshman to see who succeeded at the next level to justify their early promise. Keldon was one of the players who sifted well in the mix.

payitforward · Post #3 » by **payitforward** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:24 pm

Philadelphia had an awful draft. They telegraphed that they were focused on Matisse Thybulle, so Ainge took him at 20, then traded him to Philly for the #24 pick & the #33 pick. Ainge then traded that #24 pick to Phoenix for two R1 picks & used the #33 they got to nab Carsen Edwards.

Philly's trade with us was equally ineffective. Why not just give Simmons his $1m guarantee, dump him, & pick someone instead (like Admiral Schofield for example)? Excellent move Mr. Sheppard!

Early in his FO career, Elton Brand is continuing to show how much he needs to learn to become an effective GM. He might want to watch Ainge for some lessons!

He did trade their #34 for 3 future R2 picks -- my guess is that a different Philly GM will be making use of those assets....

payitforward · Post #4 » by **payitforward** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:28 pm

My favorite of this year's draft selection comedies was #57.

The Pelicans picked Jordan Bone. But they had traded the pick to Atlanta, so Bone had to change hats. But, Atlanta had traded that pick to the Sixers, so he had to change to a third hat. But, the Sixers had traded the pick to the Pistons, so poor Jordan Bone needed to try on his 4th hat.

I'm waiting for the Pistons to trade Bone to the Pelicans!

Post #5 » by **Ruzious** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:33 pm

I second that for New Orleans. They've become must see tv. As much as Dat wants to switch to be a Memphis fan, I wish I could change to a... uh... Pelican fan (man, that name almost makes Wizards sound cool). Just can't undo being a Bulletzard fan - maybe there's some kind of detox reprogramming place - with posters of Susan O'Malley with the caption "My House My Rules"?

Phoenix' draft was the worst. They're going nowhere. Boston and Philly failed to make a big score with lots of picks.

Post #6 » by **nate33** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:38 pm

payitforward wrote:Philadelphia had an awful draft. They telegraphed that they were focused on Matisse Thybulle, so Ainge took him at 20, then traded him to Philly for the #24 pick & the #33 pick. Ainge then traded that #24 pick to Phoenix for two R1 picks & used the #33 they got to nab Carsen Edwards.

Philly's trade with us was equally ineffective. Why not just give Simmons his $1m guarantee, dump him, & pick someone instead (like Admiral Schofield for example)? Excellent move Mr. Sheppard!

Early in his FO career, Elton Brand is continuing to show how much he needs to learn to become an effective GM. He might want to watch Ainge for some lessons! He did trade their #34 for 3 future R2 picks -- my guess is that a different Philly GM will be making use of those assets....

Brand strikes me as a guy who could be swindled. If Philly doesn't resign all their free agents, or if they do but things don't go so well because of their lack of shooting, I think Brand could be goaded into a desperation trade for Bradley Beal.

payitforward · Post #7 » by **payitforward** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:38 pm

doclinkin wrote:Spurs picked up the other multi tooled Luka. I’m on record saying Samanic will be good. But I’d trust the Spurs scouting better than mine. They coveted him all year. Sending Buford and scouts to watch his games.

Then in the second round they picked up a productive freshman who was one of the Win share/BPM youth allstars in Keldon Johnson. When trying to gauge who will be good based on the idea that young players who get it have a higher upside than seasoned players who may show better current production I sorted the stats a few times hunting for freshman standouts and compared them with prior years freshman to see who succeeded at the next level to justify their early promise. Keldon was one of the players who sifted well in the mix.

Actually, Keldon Johnson went to them at #29. A really really high value pick, I agree. Is Tyler Herro went #13 -- is he really all that much more likely to turn out well? I like them both; don't give Herro much of an edge.

But, you missed one: at #49, the Spurs chose Quinndary Weatherspoon. A 4-year starting SG at Mississippi State, he has a lot more going for him than his name. His numbers say he might easily be a solid, productive journeyman in the NBA.

closg00 · Post #8 » by **closg00** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:32 pm

What the Pacers did in taking Goga was puzzling, I guess they won't extend the qualifying offer to Sabonis

closg00 · Post #9 » by **closg00** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:38 pm

payitforward wrote:Philadelphia had an awful draft. They telegraphed that they were focused on Matisse Thybulle, so Ainge took him at 20, then traded him to Philly for the #24 pick & the #33 pick. Ainge then traded that #24 pick to Phoenix for two R1 picks & used the #33 they got to nab Carsen Edwards.

Philly's trade with us was equally ineffective. Why not just give Simmons his $1m guarantee, dump him, & pick someone instead (like Admiral Schofield for example)? Excellent move Mr. Sheppard!

Early in his FO career, Elton Brand is continuing to show how much he needs to learn to become an effective GM. He might want to watch Ainge for some lessons! He did trade their #34 for 3 future R2 picks -- my guess is that a different Philly GM will be making use of those assets....

Ainge stole his lunch-money, this is why Ernie was so paranoid about being tight-lipped pre-draft

Post #10 » by **Ruzious** » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:39 pm

closg00 wrote:What the Pacers did in taking Goga was puzzling, I guess they won't extend the qualifying offer to Sabonis

Not a good fit, but I think they just figured he's that much better than anyone else at that point.

Post #11 » by **Jamaaliver** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:16 pm

I love what Memphis managed this year.

Getting Ja Morant @ 2 was largely a luck of the draw.

But moving Conley, getting a pick in the early 20s and pairing Brandon Clarke with JJJ feels like a match made in heaven.

Is there a more versatile defensive front court in the league?

gtn130 · Post #12 » by **gtn130** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:36 pm

I think the moves Atlanta has made over the past two years have been comically bad. It seems like they're trying really hard to build the 35 win version of Golden State. Trading up for Hunter is laughable IMO

Post #13 » by **Rafael122** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:48 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:I love what Memphis managed this year.

Getting Ja Morant @ 2 was largely a luck of the draw.

But moving Conley, getting a pick in the early 20s and pairing Brandon Clarke with JJJ feels like a match made in heaven.

Is there a more versatile defensive front court in the league?

If Memphis were in the East, I'd peg them for a playoff team in like 2 years. Loved their draft, Pelicans did well too. ATL seems to be in a lot of 'winners' lists but I don't see it. Collins and Young are their only legit guys, everyone else, including Huerter are unknowns to me.

Post #14 » by **Jamaaliver** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:06 pm

Rafael122 wrote:ATL seems to be in a lot of 'winners' lists but I don't see it. Collins and Young are their only legit guys, everyone else, including Huerter are unknowns to me.

gtn130 wrote:I think the moves Atlanta has made over the past two years have been comically bad. It seems like they're trying really hard to build the 35 win version of Golden State. Trading up for Hunter is laughable IMO

Noted. I'm clearly biased on the topic, though I acknowledge why outside observers would have doubts.

But time will tell.

gtn130 · Post #15 » by **gtn130** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:15 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:ATL seems to be in a lot of 'winners' lists but I don't see it. Collins and Young are their only legit guys, everyone else, including Huerter are unknowns to me.

gtn130 wrote:I think the moves Atlanta has made over the past two years have been comically bad. It seems like they're trying really hard to build the 35 win version of Golden State. Trading up for Hunter is laughable IMO

Noted. I'm clearly biased on the topic, though I acknowledge why outside observers would have doubts.

But time will tell.

I just think a lot of these ATL dudes project to be poor man's versions of Golden State's roster.

-Trae is obviously supposed to be Curry. Trae's best case outcome is...2016 Isaiah Thomas? Give me Luka all day over a guy who will be a 100% defensive liability.
-Heurter is a poor man's Klay.
-Deandre Hunter is a destitute man's Draymond. Really, he's Jae Crowder or worse.
-John Collins is whatever. He's fine but nothing special.
-Evan Turner is a destitute man's Iggy lol.
-Reddish will probably not be good, but this draft is bad, so that one is fine I guess.

It's 35 win Golden State.

Post #16 » by **nate33** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:21 pm

gtn130 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:ATL seems to be in a lot of 'winners' lists but I don't see it. Collins and Young are their only legit guys, everyone else, including Huerter are unknowns to me.

gtn130 wrote:I think the moves Atlanta has made over the past two years have been comically bad. It seems like they're trying really hard to build the 35 win version of Golden State. Trading up for Hunter is laughable IMO

Noted. I'm clearly biased on the topic, though I acknowledge why outside observers would have doubts.

But time will tell.

I just think a lot of these ATL dudes project to be poor man's versions of Golden State's roster.

-Trae is obviously supposed to be Curry. Trae's best case outcome is...2016 Isaiah Thomas? Give me Luka all day over a guy who will be a 100% defensive liability.
-Heurter is a poor man's Klay.
-Deandre Hunter is a destitute man's Draymond. Really, he's Jae Crowder or worse.
-John Collins is whatever. He's fine but nothing special.
-Evan Turner is a destitute man's Iggy lol.
-Reddish will probably not be good, but this draft is bad, so that one is fine I guess.

It's 35 win Golden State.

Good point. It's like they have clones of all of Golden State's players minus the ability to play defense.

Post #17 » by **Jamaaliver** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:24 pm

gtn130 wrote:I just think a lot of these ATL dudes project to be poor man's versions of Golden State's roster.

It's 35 win Golden State.

Maybe.

Our GM has a specific vision in mind. It's clear that it's largely influenced by what we've seen from the Warriors. But it's still early in our rebuild.

NOTE: Trae...is a better floor general than Isaiah Thomas. He does have some serious defensive deficiencies akin to IT2. But Trae is a legit PG.

Read on Twitter

Spoiler:

I_Like_Dirt · Post #18 » by **I_Like_Dirt** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:25 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:Noted. I'm clearly biased on the topic, though I acknowledge why outside observers would have doubts.

But time will tell.

Count me as a doubter, too. I think Hunter can play and wasn't the worst of decisions in what seems like a reasonably deep but flat draft but I also don't see a star or anything like that. The Hawks need almost everything, though, so a solid starter is fine even if a bit underwhelming at 4.

I don't think Reddish is good at all. Honestly, only thing I've loved that the Hawks have done was draft Young. Young is fantastic. The rest of their draft picks seem decidedly Hawks. Their picks vary from okay to awful. If they get into the top 5 of the draft, they will sometimes get a star but otherwise they're just not creative and it's held pretty consistent across a few GMs. It strikes me that their scouting staff/structure could do with a bit of a rethink.

To be honest, I think this draft wasn't a particularly strong one in terms of star talent and we see a lot of teams with at least one high pick and multiple picks that traditionally aren't strong scouting teams. The teams that tend to be stronger scouting teams have been circling the fringes of the draft, picking some of the guys that were missed but not giving up a heck of a lot to really get into the draft to do it. The only team that fits the bill as a relatively poor scouting team with multiple picks that I think did well was the Grizzlies. The Magic weren't bad, either, as I feel Okeke isn't necessarily a worse prospect than Hunter at 16. I don't actually hate what the Wizards did, either. Not amazing, but a decent draft in general.

Otherwise, I like the Blazers grabbing Little later on, though I don't think he'd have made a great lottery pick. I like what the Spurs did and feel they probably had the strongest draft here. I think the Nuggets to a reasonable flyer on Bol Bol. The Jazz draft intrigues me though I don't know enough to be sure of anything. I also think the Raptors may have found another quality rotation level role player with the 59th pick and realgm will never hear the end of it if they did - Dewan Huell (now Hernandez) seems to have flown under the radar after being suspended for the season.

Post #19 » by **Rafael122** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:31 pm

I just think Atlanta's trajectory would be higher with Luka than with Trae. But, I am high on Atlanta's future. I think they have max slots for 2020 or 2021, I forget...I'm pretty sure it's 2020 and Lowe recently said that Atlanta is a team to look out for in free agency next offseason.

Post #20 » by **Ruzious** » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:35 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:I love what Memphis managed this year.

Getting Ja Morant @ 2 was largely a luck of the draw.

But moving Conley, getting a pick in the early 20s and pairing Brandon Clarke with JJJ feels like a match made in heaven.

Is there a more versatile defensive front court in the league?

That's going to be a super-athletic team, but... are they going to get physically pushed around? I want to see if this kind of lineup will work in the NBA.