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Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards

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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#101 » by Illmatic12 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:54 pm

80sballboy wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
80sballboy wrote:
Agree to a point but do you play him 30 mpg if you have Bryant? No. Do you play him 20? Maybe but then what is he worth? Can he stay healthy? I'd rather let Bryant learn than play Howard starter's minutes just so you think you might be able to get a 2nd rounder from him. And I'm probably reversing what I said a few weeks ago when I thought we could get something for him. If you can get a future pick, fine. But my guess is this organization doesn't want him here for several reasons.


There are 48 MPG at every position. Dwight can get 15 MPG with Bryant getting 25 MPG. The other 8 (Give or take) gets used in small ball.
You tell him straight up... We believe you have something left in the tank. Be a good sport and help the young guys, rebound, and play D. We'll move you to a contender where you will get playing time and in the playoffs.


That's fine but I continue to hear rumblings that they want to get rid of him. When you go for "character" guys in the draft like Rui and Schofield, Beal is practically a Saint and Troy seems like a good kid, I don't know if they want Dwight Howard mentoring the younger guys.

I don’t think Dwight is a bad locker room presence at all. From what Fred Katz was saying, they’ll probably buy him out to free up a roster spot and PT for younger guys.

Also gives Dwight the opportunity to latch on to a playoff team and (hopefully) end his career on a more positive note.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#102 » by Ruzious » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:13 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:
truwizfan4evr wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:This team still has no outside shooting. Wouldn't shock me if they look at Seth Curry.

The Euro bigs were getting can shoot. Also got beal

Sato (if retained) can also knock down shots. Thomas Bryant shoots as well. We have 3pt shooting throughout the roster, just missing a dedicated gunner in the starting lineup - like say a Bogdanovic type.

The hole in the roster now is to replace Ariza’s role , we need a starting SF who can launch threes and defend big wings. Someone like Otto but who isn’t being paid a bajillion dollars

Sato is not a knock down shooter. Opponents often leave him open - partly because they know his release is so slow that they'll have time to get to him and partly because he often doesn't take open shots.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#103 » by Illmatic12 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:32 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:
truwizfan4evr wrote:The Euro bigs were getting can shoot. Also got beal

Sato (if retained) can also knock down shots. Thomas Bryant shoots as well. We have 3pt shooting throughout the roster, just missing a dedicated gunner in the starting lineup - like say a Bogdanovic type.

The hole in the roster now is to replace Ariza’s role , we need a starting SF who can launch threes and defend big wings. Someone like Otto but who isn’t being paid a bajillion dollars

Sato is not a knock down shooter. Opponents often leave him open - partly because they know his release is so slow that they'll have time to get to him and partly because he often doesn't take open shots.

I used the term “knock down” shooter to mean someone who’s generally automatic on open spot ups, which Sato is. Certainly he’s not a high volume shooter or someone who can create 3s off the dribble. Brad is our only proven player with that skillset currently
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#104 » by Dat2U » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:39 pm

NatP4 wrote:I say waive Dwight Howard and go ahead and still sign Voigtmann.

Sato Bonga Robinson
Beal McRae Sanon
Brown Jr Schofield
Hachimura White
Bryant Voigtmann Wagner

It would be nice to still have Otto Porter


Man you been putting Aaron White in lineups for like the last 3 years! :lol:

I stand by what I said, he'll never play a minute in the NBA.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#105 » by JWizmentality » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:50 pm

Dat2U wrote:
NatP4 wrote:I say waive Dwight Howard and go ahead and still sign Voigtmann.

Sato Bonga Robinson
Beal McRae Sanon
Brown Jr Schofield
Hachimura White
Bryant Voigtmann Wagner

It would be nice to still have Otto Porter


Man you been putting Aaron White in lineups for like the last 3 years! :lol:

I stand by what I said, he'll never play a minute in the NBA.


He's still putting Otto in lineups.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#106 » by trast66 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:04 pm

nate33 wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:
Read on Twitter

If Aaron White makes the roster at all, why would it be for anything more than the 1st-year player minimum of $897,158? My guess is that they'll leave him overseas for another year since we just acquired so many guaranteed contracts in the Laker trade. So that leaves us the $13.3M in luxtax room. We would still have the MLE and the BAE.

As of now, it looks like one of Troy Brown or Admiral Schofield will start at SF and Rui starts at PF. We have no backup PF. We definitely need 1 MLE veteran forward plus another respectable veteran forward (Jeff Green?)


Agree on White not coming over. I think Bryant and Sato get substantially more than shown, don’t see how we keep Green.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#107 » by trast66 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:07 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
80sballboy wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
:noway: Waive Dwight for Voigtmann...hell no. That guy is a 3rd Center at best. If Dwight is healthy do yo know what kind of value he will have on the market.
Again, Bojan is going to get almost 20M per, Horford is about to get a 4/110M deal... :o

Dwight at 5.7M could be a real get for a team that cant afford to add salary. He is a walking 2nd round pick, dont waive him.


Agree to a point but do you play him 30 mpg if you have Bryant? No. Do you play him 20? Maybe but then what is he worth? Can he stay healthy? I'd rather let Bryant learn than play Howard starter's minutes just so you think you might be able to get a 2nd rounder from him. And I'm probably reversing what I said a few weeks ago when I thought we could get something for him. If you can get a future pick, fine. But my guess is this organization doesn't want him here for several reasons.


There are 48 MPG at every position. Dwight can get 15 MPG with Bryant getting 25 MPG. The other 8 (Give or take) gets used in small ball.
You tell him straight up... We believe you have something left in the tank. Be a good sport and help the young guys, rebound, and play D. We'll move you to a contender where you will get playing time and in the playoffs.


The world where Dwight Howard has any value is the same one where Bol Bol is a top draft pick. If Tommy cuts him he’s a legend already.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#108 » by trast66 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:17 pm

FAH1223 wrote:
Read on Twitter


It looks like our over/under wins line is 27.5. Can we all agree the under is the play? I’m more than fine with us being bad and playing the kids, but that’s a historically bad defensive team.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#109 » by AWIZZINGBULLET » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:22 pm

Is it safe to officially dub the Wizards "East L.A."?
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#110 » by nate33 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:24 pm

trast66 wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:
Read on Twitter


It looks like our over/under wins line is 27.5. Can we all agree the under is the play? I’m more than fine with us being bad and playing the kids, but that’s a historically bad defensive team.

It looks like a bad team. We won 32 games last year, and this team has downgraded from Parker to Hachimura, from Ariza/Porter to Troy Brown, from Oubre to Schofield, and from Jeff Green to God knows who. Only Bryant figures to be substantially better. So, yes, 27.5 sounds reasonable. It could get a little better depending on who we add with the MLE.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#111 » by NatP4 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:25 pm

Dat2U wrote:
NatP4 wrote:I say waive Dwight Howard and go ahead and still sign Voigtmann.

Sato Bonga Robinson
Beal McRae Sanon
Brown Jr Schofield
Hachimura White
Bryant Voigtmann Wagner

It would be nice to still have Otto Porter


Man you been putting Aaron White in lineups for like the last 3 years! :lol:

I stand by what I said, he'll never play a minute in the NBA.


Does he not rank highly enough in your tiers?????!!
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#112 » by payitforward » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:36 pm

O. M. G. This is the best news about the Wizards I have had in a loooooong time.

That's not to say that these are 3 great players. That's not my point at all (though... see below).

What's great about this is a) it indicates a complete change in approach, b) it's imaginative, c) it tells me that we are taking seriously the idea of rebuilding, & d) it confirms the Pelinka connection that I'd sensed in the Bryant deal (which now seems as if it was Sheppard <> Pelinka rather than Ernie <> Pelinka.

Why "c"? Because instead of going out & signing old guys with no future who might be marginally more "help now" but don't grow the team, Tommy Sheppard wants to actually look at young guys & see if they can develop. Why "d"? Because, last year, when we got Thomas Bryant, I could not imagine how in the world he had come to the attention of Ernie Grunfeld. It seemed impossible.

I opined that when Pelinka realized he couldn't keep Bryant, he wanted to send him East (i.e. far away where he wouldn't come back to haunt him) & called Ernie. That still might be what happened, of course. But, to me, it looks much more likely that he either called Tommy or Tommy had told him something like "If you can't keep Bryant, let us know...."

In other words, what's great about this is that it indicates Sheppard is his own man & very much on the ball. & that we won't be seeing Jodie Meeks-Dwight Howard-Trevor Ariza-Jeff Green-etc. style acquisitions -- not that we won't, say, bring back Green. But that it won't be one after the other: a retreadorama.

As to these 3 guys:

Mo Wagner I didn't much like in the run up to the draft last year, but a lot people here sure did -- there was a contingent that wanted him @#15. I don't know how successful he can be in the league. But... come on. He was a R1 pick in a deep draft, & we just got him for nothing. Yeah! We'll find out! Kinda hard to complain.

I wouldn't sleep on Bonga. A lot of people liked him in the run up to the '18 draft. The Lakers actually traded to acquire a pick & choose him. He also did have a 30-point game in the G League.

Jemerrio... he deserves his own post.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#113 » by payitforward » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:43 pm

Jemerrio Jones... holy moly! He only played 143 minutes for the Lakers, so his numbers don't predict. But, if you think he played badly just because he only posted a 39.8% TS%, you just aren't paying close enough attention to the numbers.

For every 11.1 shots he took, Jones made only 4 of them for 8.75 points. That's 7.1 misses. But, in that same stretch, he grabbed 5.4 offensive rebounds & had 2.3 steals minus 1.7 turnovers. In other words, he got 6 of those 7.1 misses back. So those 8.75 points cost his team only 5 possessions.

In that same time, an average NBA guard took 19.2 shots & made 8.4 of them netting 19.35 points. That's 10.6 more points. That's 10.8 misses. In the process, that average guard has .5 more turnovers than he does offensive boards & steals combined.

The result? In effect, to produce 10.6 more points than Jemerrio Jones, an average NBA guard 14.7 more possessions than Jemerrio. Oh, & along the way Jemerrio gets 11.1 defensive boards, while mr. average gets 5.2.

On the combo of blocks, fouls & assists, Mr. Average does have a lead (really just on assists, but it suffices).

Overall, for the little that 143 minutes means, Jemerrio Jones is... incredibly good! Amazingly good!

What's this mean? Here's what it means: if everyone on your team played the way he plays (which is impossible obviously), your team would only score 46 points per 48 minutes. Your opponent, however, would see the ball so rarely on offense that they'd be lucky to get to 30. & when they did see the ball, they'd get 1 shot.

But, what's it really mean? Absolutely nothing, obviously.

Except that Jemerrio Jones, no matter where he comes from & no matter that he wasn't drafted, is an outstanding prospect! He's the Ben Wallace of 6'5" guys.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#114 » by nuposse04 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:54 pm

payitforward wrote:Jemerrio Jones... holy moly! He only played 143 minutes for the Lakers, so his numbers don't predict. But, if you think he played badly just because he only posted a 39.8% TS%, you just aren't paying close enough attention to the numbers.

For every 11.1 shots he took, Jones made only 4 of them for 8.75 points. That's 7.1 misses. But, in that same stretch, he grabbed 5.4 offensive rebounds & had 2.3 steals minus 1.7 turnovers. In other words, he got 6 of those 7.1 misses back. So those 8.75 points cost his team only 5 possessions.

In that same time, an average NBA guard took 19.2 shots & made 8.4 of them netting 19.35 points. That's 10.6 more points. That's 10.8 misses. In the process, that average guard has .5 more turnovers than he does offensive boards & steals combined.

The result? In effect, to produce 10.6 more points than Jemerrio Jones, an average NBA guard 14.7 more possessions than Jemerrio. Oh, & along the way Jemerrio gets 11.1 defensive boards, while mr. average gets 5.2.

On the combo of blocks, fouls & assists, Mr. Average does have a lead (really just on assists, but it suffices).

Overall, for the little that 143 minutes means, Jemerrio Jones is... incredibly good! Amazingly good!

What's this mean? Here's what it means: if everyone on your team played the way he plays (which is impossible obviously), your team would only score 46 points per 48 minutes. Your opponent, however, would see the ball so rarely on offense that they'd be lucky to get to 30. & when they did see the ball, they'd get 1 shot.

But, what's it really mean? Absolutely nothing, obviously.

Except that Jemerrio Jones, no matter where he comes from & no matter that he wasn't drafted, is an outstanding prospect! He's the Ben Wallace of 6'5" guys.


I can't help but wonder if we got him AND Clarke how elated you would be ;)

I think all three guys are worth evaluating and seeing if they are actually good nba prospects.

As much as the directional shift is a positive development, I'd like if it Tommy is imploring Brooks to actually play the new young guys as well. Adding a veteran isn't going to significantly change the outlook of the team more then likely. Better off banking on that one or two of the new 6 young players (these three+our draft night) actually end up meaningfully contributing.

Our spacing is going to be wretched next year unless some of these guys match their collegiate pedigree.

Summer league should be fun tho :D
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#115 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:03 am

TGW wrote:Good trade.

I never understood the strategy of not picking up additional second rounders. Pick them up, draft some Eurostashes, and have a pool of talent in Europe that you can pick from and grooom all to yourself.

Eurostashes? How about we pick up Draymond, Khris Middleton, Will Barton, Monte Morris, Mitchell Robinson, Kenrich Williams, Nikola Jokic, DeAndre Jordan, Thomas Bryant, Jonah Bolden, Jordan Bell, Jake Layman, Malcolm Brogdon, Cheick Diallo, Montrezl Harrell, Richaun Holmes, Pat Connaughton, Dwight Powell, Glen Robinson, Jerami Grant, Spencer Dinwiddie, Johnny O'Bryant, Joe Harris... well you get the idea! :)

Illmatic12 wrote:At this point I’m done arguing with anyone who compares Tommy Sheppard to Grunfeld. Anyone still saying he’s not capable of the job is just being a blind hater.

This deal today completely wipes Grunfeld off the table in respect of Tommy. He is doing the right thing, & so far he's doing it really well!

DCZards wrote:Yeah...kinda liking what Shep is doing. Seems to have had a good draft day with Rui, Admiral and the undrafted Robinson. And this trade might result in the Zards adding a young player or two to the active roster. Or, at the very least, it's trading for talent that maybe can develop on the Go-Gos.

Might want to just give TS the GM job and be done with it.

Absolutely! This is the kind of approach we need. & one thing seems certain -- Tommy Sheppard knows what he's doing. He's not being reactive, & he's not the least bit tentative, that's for sure! :)

You are right that all 3 of these guys might not be able to play meaningful minutes in 2019-20, but they are promising, that's for sure.

& Tommy is making our salary problems look a lot less severe than they seemed to be.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#116 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:09 am

nate33 wrote:Wagner seems like the perfect replacement for Bobby Portis:

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=bobby-portis--moritz-wagner

Those are college numbers. Wagner got 7.6 rebounds per 40 minutes this year. Fouled a lot, turned it over a lot. He was pretty awful.

Portis was bad, but Mo was a lot worse (but... a rookie).
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#117 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:12 am

nate33 wrote:Jemerrio Jones is an insanely good rebounder for a 6-5 small forward, judging from all the stats I could find.

In college, at New Mexico State, he averaged 16.8 rebounds per 36 minutes :o
In the G-League, he averaged 13.8 rebounds per 36 minutes.
In very limited minutes in the pros, he averaged 12.3 rebounds per 36 minutes

PIF is going to love him.

Why yes, yes he is!!

Got a chance to be this year's Thomas Bryant.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#118 » by gambitx777 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:14 am

Like you said a rookie. And Bobbie wants and may very well get 16 mill a year from someone. So no at 2 mill or Bobbie at 16 ? I think we all know the answer here.
payitforward wrote:
nate33 wrote:Wagner seems like the perfect replacement for Bobby Portis:

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=bobby-portis--moritz-wagner

Those are college numbers. Wagner got 7.6 rebounds per 40 minutes this year. Fouled a lot, turned it over a lot. He was pretty awful.

Portis was bad, but Mo was a lot worse (but... a rookie).


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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#119 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:16 am

pcbothwel wrote:Im F'n pumped… I’ve been beating the drum for Tommy for a while now and hes killing it with minimal flexibility. (PIF also sang his praises)...
...I can almost guarantee you we aren’t done. Between the other Kieff TPE and Dwight… I bet we end up with another player and/or 2nd round pick

Team Tommy…lol

So far so absolutely insanely great.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#120 » by Illmatic12 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:30 am

payitforward wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:Im F'n pumped… I’ve been beating the drum for Tommy for a while now and hes killing it with minimal flexibility. (PIF also sang his praises)...
...I can almost guarantee you we aren’t done. Between the other Kieff TPE and Dwight… I bet we end up with another player and/or 2nd round pick

Team Tommy…lol

So far so absolutely insanely great.

Tommy has even more up his sleeve .. check this out :

Read on Twitter
?s=21



Instead of waiving Simmons, the Wizards will try to trade him .. could they possibly finesse another 2nd round pick?

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