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Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards

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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#141 » by Dat2U » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:18 am

payitforward wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
NatP4 wrote:so Jemmerio Jones is a self check on offense but a lockdown defender and elite rebounder. 18.7 rebounds per 40 in college???


Jones had a TS% of. 398 in 143 minutes! :nonono:

Bonga had a TS% of .240 in 120 minutes! :o

I don't think it's a sure bet either SHOULD make a roster.

Respectfully, Dat, I think you are all wrong about Jones. For one thing, the Lakers FO was said to be extremely high on him. In addition look at my post on what his numbers look like when seen together in the context of reality.

Consider the following: a guy goes up for a shot inside & makes it. 2 points for his team. Versus the following: a guy goes up for a shot inside & misses it but grabs the rebound & puts it in. 2 points for his team. Difference in time elapsed, maybe 1 second.

Between these 2 cases, what is the difference to the guy's numbers? Well, in the first case his TS% is higher. In the 2d case, his TS% is lower, but his offensive rebounds are up.

Between these 2 cases, wha i's the difference to the team & its chance of winning the game? No difference.

If Jones also had a high TS% (& the minutes were significant of course) he'd be one of the best players in the league. Those are 2 big "ifs," of course. But, what he did was outstanding, however. He gives his team possessions by the fistful. The above example emphasizes the meaning of an offensive rebound in re: TS% -- but he also dominates the defensive glass.


There's plenty of evidence that spacing matters. If a guy can't hit the broad side of a barn, especially at wing position, he makes it harder for his teammates to pick up the slack. Just like good offenses take advantage of a weak defender, a good defense can game plan against a non-shooter.

As for Jones & Bonga obviously it's a ridiculously small sample size. I'm not saying they cannot play, I've never watched them! Just pointing out they got some work to do!
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#142 » by Darren » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:19 am

If Wiz prefer second round pick than Wagner, I think the Mavs has a second round pick to offer. The Mavs has got UTAH, DAL or GSW/HOU's second round picks in 2020. POR in 2021. MIA in 2023.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#143 » by nate33 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:45 am

Darren wrote:If Wiz prefer second round pick than Wagner, I think the Mavs has a second round pick to offer. The Mavs has got UTAH, DAL or GSW/HOU's second round picks in 2020. POR in 2021. MIA in 2023.

I might do it for the 2020 DAL pick. Those other picks are really late. I'd want two of them.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#144 » by Jimmy Recard » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:59 am

Love it. Two prospects and a second round pick in what might be a super draft for free? Yes sir. Shepp is winning me over.

Also, the meltdown on the general board makes it even better :lol:
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#145 » by doclinkin » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:25 am

Lol. Giddy PIF is a rare sight. Funny how quick the turnaround. Just over a little something from nothing. And really not much of that overall. But yeah how tantalizing a drug Hope is. Makes even a crusty curmudgeon go manic. Just a whiff and an old man gets loopy and clusterposts a string of naked exuberance. Everybody go streaking!
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#146 » by doclinkin » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:28 am

gravytrain24 wrote:I like this move. I was high on Wagner coming out of college and hoped the wiz would get him. He has a nice stroke, athletic. Plus getting a 2nd rounder shouldn’t be over looked. Yeah we’re helping the Lakers but by the time their “dynasty” ends, the wizards young guns will be ready.


And we potentially tilt some top talent away from : New York. Brooklyn. Boston. Maybe even Toronto.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#147 » by The Consiglieri » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:25 am

doclinkin wrote:Lol. Giddy PIF is a rare sight. Funny how quick the turnaround. Just over a little something from nothing. And really not much of that overall. But yeah how tantalizing a drug Hope is. Makes even a crusty curmudgeon go manic. Just a whiff and an old man gets loopy and clusterposts a string of naked exuberance. Everybody go streaking!


Nah. It's not a little something from nothing. It's good process. And nothing is more exciting than good process when it comes to fan bases like ours, mired in bad process continuously since the days of the Reagan Administration. That's what good process does.

The move has no down side. If the players bust, at best, it accomplishes the goal of making us a touch worse in wins and losses and better in lottery balls, if we manage to hit on a guy, it likely doesn't impact the lottery ball total much at all AND it adds a legit asset to the roster. Win. Win.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#148 » by WizardsWorld » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:31 am

Never been so ashamed of being a Wizards fan. And that's saying something.... Literally the last thing any team in the league should want to do is help the lakers/lebron out. And that's what we did here... all for a freakin 2022 2nd rounder. I've been sick to my stomach all day. What a joke.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#149 » by gambitx777 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:47 am

Good teams don't focus on what the other teams are doing. They focus on making positive moves and making their team better. The "**** them" no one help them get better mentality is the mentality of a team that's never going to get better. This is a good step for the wizards. The wizards made out in this trade big time.
WizardsWorld wrote:Never been so ashamed of being a Wizards fan. And that's saying something.... Literally the last thing any team in the league should want to do is help the lakers/lebron out. And that's what we did here... all for a freakin 2022 2nd rounder. I've been sick to my stomach all day. What a joke.


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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#150 » by WizardsWorld » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:52 am

gambitx777 wrote:Good teams don't focus on what the other teams are doing. They focus on making positive moves and making their team better. The "**** them" no one help them get better mentality is the mentality of a team that's never going to get better. This is a good step for the wizards. The wizards made out in this trade big time.
WizardsWorld wrote:Never been so ashamed of being a Wizards fan. And that's saying something.... Literally the last thing any team in the league should want to do is help the lakers/lebron out. And that's what we did here... all for a freakin 2022 2nd rounder. I've been sick to my stomach all day. What a joke.


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Well we aren't a good team so that ends this argument right there. Helping a lakers team by taking some extremely low level prospects off their hands to help them create another super team does nothing to help us going forward. These guys we got will be lucky to get any playing time at all, or even make the roster. Pointless bs move on our part.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#151 » by gambitx777 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:06 am

In order to be a good team, you have to act like a good team. We had spots to fill, we liked mo last year in the draft, bonga has some solid tools and is only 19 and Jones can defend pretty well. All three guys are young yeah we might cut Jones. But the 22 second is valuable that draft is projected to be the deepest draft in a long time with high school.kids coming out there will be a lot of quality guys slip. Who else did you want ? Portis at the 16 mill he might very well get from another team. We filled 2-3 spots with quality young talent, and we got a good draft pick. Your point of no one should help the Lakers is silly. You make the best move for your team and take advantage of what ever you can!
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gambitx777 wrote:Good teams don't focus on what the other teams are doing. They focus on making positive moves and making their team better. The "**** them" no one help them get better mentality is the mentality of a team that's never going to get better. This is a good step for the wizards. The wizards made out in this trade big time.
WizardsWorld wrote:Never been so ashamed of being a Wizards fan. And that's saying something.... Literally the last thing any team in the league should want to do is help the lakers/lebron out. And that's what we did here... all for a freakin 2022 2nd rounder. I've been sick to my stomach all day. What a joke.


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Well we aren't a good team so that ends this argument right there. Helping a lakers team by taking some extremely low level prospects off their hands to help them create another super team does nothing to help us going forward. These guys we got will be lucky to get any playing time at all, or even make the roster. Pointless bs move on our part.


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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#152 » by Mauro Pedrosa » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:33 am

I like this move a lot. Wanted my Orlando Magic to be the team "helping" the Lakers
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#153 » by MVPofDC » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:42 am

Great move to get a young stretch big in Wagner and a second round pick for cash. Not sure about the other two players but now is the time to give the young guys some minutes and see who can make the next leap toward the future.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#154 » by Illmatic12 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:13 am

MVPofDC wrote:Great move to get a young stretch big in Wagner and a second round pick for cash. Not sure about the other two players but now is the time to give the young guys some minutes and see who can make the next leap toward the future.

Bonga imo looks like the most intriguing prospect of all of them .

Holy hell is this guy fast in the open court .. and other clips show he’s got legit PG vision at 6’9, that’s really rare



He’s likely nowhere near being an NBA player now, but he is only 19yo and really only needs to grow into his body more I think. If he bulks up about 10-15lb and hones his jumpshot ,he has the tools to be a hell of a player .
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#155 » by doclinkin » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:40 am

WizardsWorld wrote:Never been so ashamed of being a Wizards fan. And that's saying something.... Literally the last thing any team in the league should want to do is help the lakers/lebron out. And that's what we did here... all for a freakin 2022 2nd rounder. I've been sick to my stomach all day. What a joke.


Who cares if the Lakers get better? We play them twice a year. Four teams in our conference have cap space for one or more max contracts. If we empower a west coast team and add fuel to a bidding war we weaken our nearest rivals. Either by sending talent west or forcing them to overspend.

I do question the legality of LeBJ paying Davis $4m to be in Space Jam if he drops his trade kicker. That seems like an NCAA violation, or something.

But I don’t believe that team wins a championship. There’s always something volatile happening in LA. Unibrow or not, LeBjs squad has literally no guards. That max money I suspect will have to be split up to try to steal multiple players from the Pacers. Bucks. Nets. Boston. Etc. Guys who play in our conference.

AND if LA maxes out its cap trying to chase a ring right now, they don’t have the room to bid for Beal who they’ve been so obnoxiously coveting. They have way too many gaps in the roster. And LeBJ isn’t immortal. Time is a factor. He has to try to put it all together immediately instead of waiting til Beals contract is due. It’s not like they have anything else to trade right now.

Nope. I expect that team to flame out. The front office and ownership group is a snake pit. LeBJ is a soap opera all by himself. A coach killer. A diva. Who never takes responsibility but finds ways to scapegoat other people. And he’s losing his game little by little. Plays no defense much of the time. We will see.

But that’s not my team or care. Here It helps us marginally. Forces the big players in our conference to weary their cap in a financial slug fest and lock in ugly contracts to single players. We have seen how dangerous a max or super max can be. And otherwise it’s a sly small move in the right direction. Giving us young prospects to test out and to strengthen our G league squad to add to a competitive atmosphere from the bottom up.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#156 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:11 pm

Dat2U wrote:
payitforward wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
Jones had a TS% of. 398 in 143 minutes! :nonono:

Bonga had a TS% of .240 in 120 minutes! :o

I don't think it's a sure bet either SHOULD make a roster.

Respectfully, Dat, I think you are all wrong about Jones. For one thing, the Lakers FO was said to be extremely high on him. In addition look at my post on what his numbers look like when seen together in the context of reality.

Consider the following: a guy goes up for a shot inside & makes it. 2 points for his team. Versus the following: a guy goes up for a shot inside & misses it but grabs the rebound & puts it in. 2 points for his team. Difference in time elapsed, maybe 1 second.

Between these 2 cases, what is the difference to the guy's numbers? Well, in the first case his TS% is higher. In the 2d case, his TS% is lower, but his offensive rebounds are up.

Between these 2 cases, wha i's the difference to the team & its chance of winning the game? No difference.

If Jones also had a high TS% (& the minutes were significant of course) he'd be one of the best players in the league. Those are 2 big "ifs," of course. But, what he did was outstanding, however. He gives his team possessions by the fistful. The above example emphasizes the meaning of an offensive rebound in re: TS% -- but he also dominates the defensive glass.

There's plenty of evidence that spacing matters. If a guy can't hit the broad side of a barn, especially at wing position, he makes it harder for his teammates to pick up the slack. Just like good offenses take advantage of a weak defender, a good defense can game plan against a non-shooter.

As for Jones & Bonga obviously it's a ridiculously small sample size. I'm not saying they cannot play, I've never watched them! Just pointing out they got some work to do!

Absolutely, spacing matters: it affects the efficiency of your offense in scoring the ball. But, the other half of the equation is: how many opportunities do you have to score the ball. If I have 8 opportunities to score the ball for every 10 opportunities my opponent has, then I have to be way more efficient than my opponent in order to post anywhere near as many points as my opponent.

IOW, to increase the number of points my team scores in 48 minutes, I have to do one or both of two very different things: either I have to make more of my shots, i.e. increase efficiency (spacing helps with that) or I have to increase the number of shots I get to take (offensive rebounds, steals, low turnovers help with that), or both.

If you look at the last 5 games of the Lakers' season, leaving out 1 of them in which Jones only played 1 minute, they went 2-2 in the other 4. The wins were by 4 points & 5 points, & both of them can be traced to the fact that LA played Jones big minutes & he dominated the boards, esp. on offense. One of the two losses was by 3 points (on a buzzer beater).

In all those games, the Lakers got to take more shots than their opponents -- b/c of Jones. In the 3-point loss, Caruso turned the ball over 7 times -- & they still got to take more shots than the Blazers. Because of Jemarrio Jones. His defensive rebounding means the other team only gets one shot, his offensive rebounding means his team is likely to get more chances to score each time it has the ball.

That is not to say that this kind of play is scalable: if Jemerrio took twice as many shots he wouldn't get twice as many offensive boards. That's where you run into his limits &, overall, the limits of his kind of player. But... other kinds of players also have limits. Overall, Jones is a tremendously useful, positive force when he's on the floor.

A guy who gets tons of offensive rebounds, tons of defensive rebounds, & has 35% more steals than turnovers... that is a terrific player. A guy who helps you win. If he also shot the 3 well, he'd be a star in the league. He doesn't. But, he is still a very very positive pick up for us. & he costs next to nothing (well... in that world!). I will be surprised if he doesn't have a long, productive NBA career. With us, I hope.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#157 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:22 pm

nate33 wrote:
Darren wrote:If Wiz prefer second round pick than Wagner, I think the Mavs has a second round pick to offer. The Mavs has got UTAH, DAL or GSW/HOU's second round picks in 2020. POR in 2021. MIA in 2023.

I might do it for the 2020 DAL pick. Those other picks are really late. I'd want two of them.

I might do it for the 2020 Dallas pick & one other pick.

Wagner was a R1 pick in a very deep draft. He hasn't played nearly enough minutes (446) to have lost significant value as a trade asset. Plus, he was known as a 3-point shooter in college. He hasn't yet adapted to the NBA 3, but he is quite likely to.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#158 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:30 pm

doclinkin wrote:Lol. Giddy PIF is a rare sight. Funny how quick the turnaround. Just over a little something from nothing. And really not much of that overall. But yeah how tantalizing a drug Hope is. Makes even a crusty curmudgeon go manic. Just a whiff and an old man gets loopy and clusterposts a string of naked exuberance. Everybody go streaking!

LOL. Obviously, I have higher hopes for Jemerrio Jones than most people do -- nate called that! :)

But, really, the 2 things I love here are:

1) Tommy is taking charge, building a vision, acting boldly on that vision, & seeking opportunity to be transformative (rather than filling holes with veteran "pieces"), and

2) Ted must be on board with this, which I'm hoping means that we can stop soon with these inflated, egotistical reaches at big name candidates (so-called) for PBO.

That said... it's now been what 18 hours since the last big move? Lets have some action!! :)
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#159 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:34 pm

As I mentioned, Pelinka traded to acquire the pick he used to nab Bonga. That's enough for me to give him some runway.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#160 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:35 pm

doclinkin wrote:
WizardsWorld wrote:Never been so ashamed of being a Wizards fan. And that's saying something.... Literally the last thing any team in the league should want to do is help the lakers/lebron out. And that's what we did here... all for a freakin 2022 2nd rounder. I've been sick to my stomach all day. What a joke.


Who cares if the Lakers get better? We play them twice a year. Four teams in our conference have cap space one or more max contracts. If we empower a west coast team and add fuel to a bidding war we weaken our nearest rivals. Either by sending talent west or forcing them to overspend.

I do question the legality of LeBJ paying Davis $4m to be in Space Jam if he drops his trade kicker. That seems like an NCAA violation, or something.

But I don’t believe that team wins a championship. There’s always something volatile happening in LA. Unibrow or not, LeBjs squad has literally no guards. That max money I suspect will have to be split up to try to steal multiple players from the Pacers. Bucks. Nets. Boston. Etc. Guys who play in our conference.

AND if LA maxes out its cap trying to chase a ring right now, they don’t have the room to bid for Beal who they’ve been so obnoxiously coveting. They have way too many gaps in the roster. And LeBJ isn’t immortal. Time is a factor. He has to try to put it all together immediately instead of waiting til Beals contract is due. It’s not like they have anything else to trade right now.

Nope. I expect that team to flame out. The front office and ownership group is a snake pit. LeBJ is a soap opera all by himself. A coach killer. A diva. Who never takes responsibility but finds ways to scapegoat other people. And he’s losing his game little by little. Plays no defense much of the time. We will see.

But that’s not my team or care. Here It helps us marginally. Forces the big players in our conference to weary their cap in a financial slug fest and lock in ugly contracts to single players. We have seen how dangerous a max or super max can be. And otherwise it’s a sly small move in the right direction. Giving us young prospects to test out and to strengthen our G league squad to add to a competitive atmosphere from the bottom up.

Bingo!
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