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Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards

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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#161 » by nate33 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:23 pm

WizardsWorld wrote:Never been so ashamed of being a Wizards fan. And that's saying something.... Literally the last thing any team in the league should want to do is help the lakers/lebron out. And that's what we did here... all for a freakin 2022 2nd rounder. I've been sick to my stomach all day. What a joke.

Somebody else would have helped them if we didn't. There are too many teams with cap room and exceptions for the Lakers not to find a trade partner.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#162 » by WizardsWorld » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:38 pm

doclinkin wrote:
WizardsWorld wrote:Never been so ashamed of being a Wizards fan. And that's saying something.... Literally the last thing any team in the league should want to do is help the lakers/lebron out. And that's what we did here... all for a freakin 2022 2nd rounder. I've been sick to my stomach all day. What a joke.


Who cares if the Lakers get better? We play them twice a year. Four teams in our conference have cap space one or more max contracts. If we empower a west coast team and add fuel to a bidding war we weaken our nearest rivals. Either by sending talent west or forcing them to overspend.

I do question the legality of LeBJ paying Davis $4m to be in Space Jam if he drops his trade kicker. That seems like an NCAA violation, or something.

But I don’t believe that team wins a championship. There’s always something volatile happening in LA. Unibrow or not, LeBjs squad has literally no guards. That max money I suspect will have to be split up to try to steal multiple players from the Pacers. Bucks. Nets. Boston. Etc. Guys who play in our conference.

AND if LA maxes out its cap trying to chase a ring right now, they don’t have the room to bid for Beal who they’ve been so obnoxiously coveting. They have way too many gaps in the roster. And LeBJ isn’t immortal. Time is a factor. He has to try to put it all together immediately instead of waiting til Beals contract is due. It’s not like they have anything else to trade right now.

Nope. I expect that team to flame out. The front office and ownership group is a snake pit. LeBJ is a soap opera all by himself. A coach killer. A diva. Who never takes responsibility but finds ways to scapegoat other people. And he’s losing his game little by little. Plays no defense much of the time. We will see.

But that’s not my team or care. Here It helps us marginally. Forces the big players in our conference to weary their cap in a financial slug fest and lock in ugly contracts to single players. We have seen how dangerous a max or super max can be. And otherwise it’s a sly small move in the right direction. Giving us young prospects to test out and to strengthen our G league squad to add to a competitive atmosphere from the bottom up.


Well this makes me feel a little bit better.... But I guess my hatred for Lebron & the lakers overpowers anything else. The last thing I want to see him get is another unwarranted ring. He's already ruined the modern day nba with his super team mentality which looks like it will unfortunately keep going in the league even when he's gone in a few years.
And yes the whole SpaceJam/trade kicker, Lebron being Unibrow's agent, etc I'm sure is all illegal and violations of some sort but yet nothing will happen.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#163 » by nate33 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:52 pm

doclinkin wrote:
WizardsWorld wrote:Never been so ashamed of being a Wizards fan. And that's saying something.... Literally the last thing any team in the league should want to do is help the lakers/lebron out. And that's what we did here... all for a freakin 2022 2nd rounder. I've been sick to my stomach all day. What a joke.


Who cares if the Lakers get better? We play them twice a year. Four teams in our conference have cap space one or more max contracts. If we empower a west coast team and add fuel to a bidding war we weaken our nearest rivals. Either by sending talent west or forcing them to overspend.

I do question the legality of LeBJ paying Davis $4m to be in Space Jam if he drops his trade kicker. That seems like an NCAA violation, or something.

But I don’t believe that team wins a championship. There’s always something volatile happening in LA. Unibrow or not, LeBjs squad has literally no guards. That max money I suspect will have to be split up to try to steal multiple players from the Pacers. Bucks. Nets. Boston. Etc. Guys who play in our conference.

AND if LA maxes out its cap trying to chase a ring right now, they don’t have the room to bid for Beal who they’ve been so obnoxiously coveting. They have way too many gaps in the roster. And LeBJ isn’t immortal. Time is a factor. He has to try to put it all together immediately instead of waiting til Beals contract is due. It’s not like they have anything else to trade right now.

Nope. I expect that team to flame out. The front office and ownership group is a snake pit. LeBJ is a soap opera all by himself. A coach killer. A diva. Who never takes responsibility but finds ways to scapegoat other people. And he’s losing his game little by little. Plays no defense much of the time. We will see.

But that’s not my team or care. Here It helps us marginally. Forces the big players in our conference to weary their cap in a financial slug fest and lock in ugly contracts to single players. We have seen how dangerous a max or super max can be. And otherwise it’s a sly small move in the right direction. Giving us young prospects to test out and to strengthen our G league squad to add to a competitive atmosphere from the bottom up.

Agreed.

Even if the Lakers add a third star like Kyrie, I think it only puts them "in the conversation" as a contender. They are by no means a favorite. They will have to be very careful in managing the minutes of Lebron (and AD and Kyrie for that matter) throughout the regular season if they want them healthy for the playoffs. The chances are very high that one of the three will be hurt by the playoffs, and a team with so little depth is going to lose if they have only two of those guys.

Who is going to play defense on that team? Most decent players who are willing to sign for the vet minimum will be over-the-hill ring-chasing vets who can no longer defend - guys like J.R. Smith, Courtney Lee and Channing Frye. Lebron won't have the energy to defend. Kuzma is a sucky defender. If they're real lucky, they get a guy like Ariza or Thabo Sefolosha to play for the $4.4M Room minimum.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#164 » by gtn130 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:04 pm

This deal is obviously fine for the Wizards, but I think people are so warped by 20 years of EG that everyone is going way overboard. It's like 90+% that none of the assets acquired in this deal will ever matter on a basketball court. We effectively picked up a handful of 2nd round picks. The 2022 pick is nice, but everything else is salary dump fodder.

Normal teams make these types of moves all the time.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#165 » by CntOutSmrtCrazy » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:05 pm

nate33 wrote:
WizardsWorld wrote:Never been so ashamed of being a Wizards fan. And that's saying something.... Literally the last thing any team in the league should want to do is help the lakers/lebron out. And that's what we did here... all for a freakin 2022 2nd rounder. I've been sick to my stomach all day. What a joke.

Somebody else would have helped them if we didn't. There are too many teams with cap room and exceptions for the Lakers not to find a trade partner.


Exactly. It was inevitable someone was going to help them, why not be pragmatic about it? As I stated on the General Board, if you take emotion out of it, it's a great deal for the us. We gave up a small amount of cash for three prospects and a 2nd round pick. After years of Ernie destroying our farm system, we need every asset we can get our hands on. It amazes me people want this franchise run professionally, but want are okay with being petty. I dislike Lebron as the next guy, but "This isn't personal, it's strictly business."
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#166 » by nate33 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:13 pm

gtn130 wrote:This deal is obviously fine for the Wizards, but I think people are so warped by 20 years of EG that everyone is going way overboard. It's like 90+% that none of the assets acquired in this deal will ever matter on a basketball court. We effectively picked up a handful of 2nd round picks. The 2022 pick is nice, but everything else is salary dump fodder.

Normal teams make these types of moves all the time.

True, but this is such a massive change in organizational direction that it's worth getting excited about. We are spending money prudently to take advantage of other teams' desperation. It's usually the other way around.

Obviously, the real test is to see how we do with these assets. Is Schofield going to pan out to be an NBA player? Will Wagner or Bonga? Or can they be flipped for other useful assets?

Right now, the organization is actually acting competently, which is a step in the right direction. Time will tell if they're actually good.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#167 » by TGW » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:54 pm

Jones is a bulldog. Finally, someone who plays some defense and rebounds. Too bad he's 6'5, 175 lol.

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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#168 » by DCZards » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:22 pm

WizardsWorld wrote:
Well this makes me feel a little bit better.... But I guess my hatred for Lebron & the lakers overpowers anything else. The last thing I want to see him get is another unwarranted ring. He's already ruined the modern day nba with his super team mentality which looks like it will unfortunately keep going in the league even when he's gone in a few years.
And yes the whole SpaceJam/trade kicker, Lebron being Unibrow's agent, etc I'm sure is all illegal and violations of some sort but yet nothing will happen.

Really. With all that Lebron has done to raise the character, profile and social responsibility/consciousness of the NBA you have a problem with this petty stuff.

Unwarranted ring!! Lebron has earned every championship that he has with this talent, preparation and hard play.

Super team? Did you have a problem when Ray Allen and KG joined Pierce in Boston in 2007-08 to win a championship? That "super team" was before Lebron joined forces with Wade and Bosh in Miami.

King James deserves credit, not blame, for being the face of the NBA in the "modern era." He's one of the main reasons that the NBA has grown significantly in popularity in recent years, especially among young folks.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#169 » by DANNYLANDOVER » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:43 pm

Love this move! Glad we got someone who plays defense. Jones and Schofield, if they stick around, should be good wing defenders.
I was really getting worried about the team next season. Not many plus defenders on the roster. Last season was unwatchable for me, and I fear this season might be too (is that even possible?)
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#170 » by TGW » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:46 pm

DCZards wrote:
WizardsWorld wrote:
Well this makes me feel a little bit better.... But I guess my hatred for Lebron & the lakers overpowers anything else. The last thing I want to see him get is another unwarranted ring. He's already ruined the modern day nba with his super team mentality which looks like it will unfortunately keep going in the league even when he's gone in a few years.
And yes the whole SpaceJam/trade kicker, Lebron being Unibrow's agent, etc I'm sure is all illegal and violations of some sort but yet nothing will happen.

Really. With all that Lebron has done to raise the character, profile and social responsibility/consciousness of the NBA you have a problem with this petty stuff.

Unwarranted ring!! Lebron has earned every championship that he has with this talent, preparation and hard play.

Super team? Did you have a problem when Ray Allen and KG joined Pierce in Boston in 2007-08 to win a championship? That "super team" was before Lebron joined forces with Wade and Bosh in Miami.

King James deserves credit, not blame, for being the face of the NBA in the "modern era." He's one of the main reasons that the NBA has grown significantly in popularity in recent years, especially among young folks.


Yes. Lebron is a lame, and has destroyed parity in the NBA. The only chance non-Lebron teams have of competing is by forming their own superteams to combat him. The NBA has done a terrible job stopping the collusion between players, and they have not done anything to correct the situation.

I mean, Davis just gave back a $4MM bonus that Lebron is just going to repay him through a movie deal. Epitome of cheap.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#171 » by nate33 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:03 pm

TGW wrote:
DCZards wrote:
WizardsWorld wrote:
Well this makes me feel a little bit better.... But I guess my hatred for Lebron & the lakers overpowers anything else. The last thing I want to see him get is another unwarranted ring. He's already ruined the modern day nba with his super team mentality which looks like it will unfortunately keep going in the league even when he's gone in a few years.
And yes the whole SpaceJam/trade kicker, Lebron being Unibrow's agent, etc I'm sure is all illegal and violations of some sort but yet nothing will happen.

Really. With all that Lebron has done to raise the character, profile and social responsibility/consciousness of the NBA you have a problem with this petty stuff.

Unwarranted ring!! Lebron has earned every championship that he has with this talent, preparation and hard play.

Super team? Did you have a problem when Ray Allen and KG joined Pierce in Boston in 2007-08 to win a championship? That "super team" was before Lebron joined forces with Wade and Bosh in Miami.

King James deserves credit, not blame, for being the face of the NBA in the "modern era." He's one of the main reasons that the NBA has grown significantly in popularity in recent years, especially among young folks.


Yes. Lebron is a lame, and has destroyed parity in the NBA. The only chance non-Lebron teams have of competing is by forming their own superteams to combat him. The NBA has done a terrible job stopping the collusion between players, and they have not done anything to correct the situation.

I mean, Davis just gave back a $4MM bonus that Lebron is just going to repay him through a movie deal. Epitome of cheap.

I don't think it's unfair or a corruption of the sport to build a very good team through the draft and then acquire one big time free agent. The Warriors did that. The Celtics did that. Even Cleveland did that. I don't think anything is wrong with that. It's just good management.

What bugs me is when a team just clears a ton of cap room and then convinces multiple mercenary superstars to join them. What Lebron did in Miami and what he is doing now in LA feels like a perversion of the system. It requires no talent evaluation, no player development, no development of a team culture. It's just buying a title.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#172 » by DCZards » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:13 pm

nate33 wrote:
I don't think it's unfair or a corruption of the team to build a very good team through the draft and then acquire one big time free agent. The Warriors did that. The Celtics did that. Even Cleveland did that. I don't think anything is wrong with that. It's just good management.

What bugs me is when a team just clears a ton of cap room and then convinces multiple mercenary superstars to join them. What Lebron did in Miami and what he is doing now in LA feels like a perversion of the system. It requires no talent evaluation, no player development, no development of a team culture. It's just buying a title.


Yeah, it's a shame that NBA players develop close personal relationships with other players and then have the audacity to decide for themselves where they want to play and who they want to play with. I blame it on Curt Flood. :)
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#173 » by The Consiglieri » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:16 pm

WizardsWorld wrote:Never been so ashamed of being a Wizards fan. And that's saying something.... Literally the last thing any team in the league should want to do is help the lakers/lebron out. And that's what we did here... all for a freakin 2022 2nd rounder. I've been sick to my stomach all day. What a joke.


Lol, Who could give less of a bleep? That Lakers trade a week or two ago was absolutely horrific. They are SCREWED. Heck if they compete, it's for what, a 1 or 2 year window, then they have zero means of doing the rebuild when LeBron is done. Nobody's helping the Lakers out, they're screwed, even if they land a win now guy. Think Miami post-lebron, and Cleveland post-lebron. He left Chicxulub sized craters where those franchises used to be. He's almost done at this point, age and all those second seasons in the playoffs add up (at this point I imagine he's played an extra 3 or 4 wizards no playoff seasons alone when you count up all the playoff games) and now he's finally suffering the injuries that come w/that 30+ age issue health decline.

The lakers throttled their future w/that trade. Heck New Orleans even managed to get assets from the High School+ drafts as a part of the trade. In addition to all that, who says they get any top of the line FA? LeBron has been finding it harder and harder to get guys to join up with him. Young players don't seem to give a blank and they shouldn't. If anyone joins the Lakers it will be because of Davis, not LeBron. Last year's inability to get anyone of note to come over was suggestive that players are just much smarter about LeBron and his teams than they were back in the Cavs days. I could totally see them failing to lure anyone of consequence. The Clippers are the threat in my mind, not the Lakers. Incompetent F.O., aging Star player in LeBron, no future assets to make changes in trades, only FA and obliterating the luxury tax is available post LeBron. Good Luck with that.

So yeah, I couldn't give less of a blank that we got a talented offensive big in Wagner (at least based upon what I watched in his Michigan days), two long shot developmental prospects, and a 2nd in a high school+ draft when LeBron is likely retired and so the pick is potentially high.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#174 » by The Consiglieri » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:24 pm

gtn130 wrote:This deal is obviously fine for the Wizards, but I think people are so warped by 20 years of EG that everyone is going way overboard. It's like 90+% that none of the assets acquired in this deal will ever matter on a basketball court. We effectively picked up a handful of 2nd round picks. The 2022 pick is nice, but everything else is salary dump fodder.

Normal teams make these types of moves all the time.


#1: We aren't a normal team, we are a dog pile team.

#2 Wagner is more than that, the other guys are long shots, so is Wagner to a degree, but they are interesting and we got a 2nd rounder back.

It aint any fleecing like N.O. did a few weeks back but its a competent trade and when the heck was the last time we did that? 2010, 2011?

Add in the net positives for the rebuild, and it's a touch better than that.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#175 » by Gig18 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:28 pm

Was watching more video of Bonga in the G-league. He has intriguing qualities, but man--- he seems at LEAST a year or two away. His shot looks pretty good and he CAN handle the ball, but he gets himself totally out of control when he's driving to the hoop. Half of the drives I saw he was so off balance that he was throwing up prayers you'd see in a rec center :)
Having said that, still like this move. Think Wagner and maybe even jemmerio can become contributors day one (for us, at least).
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#176 » by gambitx777 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:12 pm

I don't know if it's going to work like that per say the league is different the second tier guys want that money I'm hearing ariza and Seth Curry and the Morris twins for min deals all those guys are getting more somewhere else.
nate33 wrote:
TGW wrote:
DCZards wrote:Really. With all that Lebron has done to raise the character, profile and social responsibility/consciousness of the NBA you have a problem with this petty stuff.

Unwarranted ring!! Lebron has earned every championship that he has with this talent, preparation and hard play.

Super team? Did you have a problem when Ray Allen and KG joined Pierce in Boston in 2007-08 to win a championship? That "super team" was before Lebron joined forces with Wade and Bosh in Miami.

King James deserves credit, not blame, for being the face of the NBA in the "modern era." He's one of the main reasons that the NBA has grown significantly in popularity in recent years, especially among young folks.


Yes. Lebron is a lame, and has destroyed parity in the NBA. The only chance non-Lebron teams have of competing is by forming their own superteams to combat him. The NBA has done a terrible job stopping the collusion between players, and they have not done anything to correct the situation.

I mean, Davis just gave back a $4MM bonus that Lebron is just going to repay him through a movie deal. Epitome of cheap.

I don't think it's unfair or a corruption of the team to build a very good team through the draft and then acquire one big time free agent. The Warriors did that. The Celtics did that. Even Cleveland did that. I don't think anything is wrong with that. It's just good management.

What bugs me is when a team just clears a ton of cap room and then convinces multiple mercenary superstars to join them. What Lebron did in Miami and what he is doing now in LA feels like a perversion of the system. It requires no talent evaluation, no player development, no development of a team culture. It's just buying a title.


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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#177 » by nate33 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:23 pm

DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:
I don't think it's unfair or a corruption of the team to build a very good team through the draft and then acquire one big time free agent. The Warriors did that. The Celtics did that. Even Cleveland did that. I don't think anything is wrong with that. It's just good management.

What bugs me is when a team just clears a ton of cap room and then convinces multiple mercenary superstars to join them. What Lebron did in Miami and what he is doing now in LA feels like a perversion of the system. It requires no talent evaluation, no player development, no development of a team culture. It's just buying a title.


Yeah, it's a shame that NBA players develop close personal relationships with other players and then have the audacity to decide for themselves where they want to play and who they want to play with. I blame it on Curt Flood. :)

Spare me. This is not about player empowerment.

The purpose of the sport is to watch a good competition. It defeats the purpose of the sport if all the best players can easily join together on one team just because they're friends. Who would pay to see a sport where the best 5 players join together to play against average teams?
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#178 » by DCZards » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:36 pm

nate33 wrote:
DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:
I don't think it's unfair or a corruption of the team to build a very good team through the draft and then acquire one big time free agent. The Warriors did that. The Celtics did that. Even Cleveland did that. I don't think anything is wrong with that. It's just good management.

What bugs me is when a team just clears a ton of cap room and then convinces multiple mercenary superstars to join them. What Lebron did in Miami and what he is doing now in LA feels like a perversion of the system. It requires no talent evaluation, no player development, no development of a team culture. It's just buying a title.


Yeah, it's a shame that NBA players develop close personal relationships with other players and then have the audacity to decide for themselves where they want to play and who they want to play with. I blame it on Curt Flood. :)

Spare me. This is not about player empowerment.

The purpose of the sport is to watch a good competition. It defeats the purpose of the sport if all the best players can easily join together on one team just because they're friends. Who would pay to see a sport where the best 5 players join together to play against average teams?


I'm not a fan of super teams. But if the alternative is to TELL grown-a** men where they can play or who they can play with, I like that even less. There's a reason why it's called "free” agency.
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#179 » by Gig18 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:45 pm

Man, this super-team genie got out of the bottle when Bron "took his talents to south beach" nearly 10 years ago. I hate it and frankly I think players are wusses (thank you Charles Barkley) when they choose to join their competitors to "win" rather than compete against them to be the best.
Baseball's been dealing with a similar ill for decades a race where three teams drive ferraris and everyone else are stuck in VW bugs.
But, as I said, that genie got out of the bottle.
How bout the players we got?
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Re: Woj: Lakers trade Wagner, Bonga, Jones, '22 2nd rder to Wizards 

Post#180 » by nate33 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:48 pm

DCZards wrote:
nate33 wrote:
DCZards wrote:
Yeah, it's a shame that NBA players develop close personal relationships with other players and then have the audacity to decide for themselves where they want to play and who they want to play with. I blame it on Curt Flood. :)

Spare me. This is not about player empowerment.

The purpose of the sport is to watch a good competition. It defeats the purpose of the sport if all the best players can easily join together on one team just because they're friends. Who would pay to see a sport where the best 5 players join together to play against average teams?


I'm not a fan of super teams. But if the alternative is to TELL grown-a** men where they can play or who they can play with, I like that even less. There's a reason why it's called "free” agency.

People have been telling grown men what they can and can't do at their jobs since the dawn of time. There's nothing oppressive or anti-freedom about imposing limitations of player mobility. This is their profession. They get paid to do this. With that payment comes certain expectations and limitations.

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