ImageImageImageImageImage

Tommy Sheppard -- Fearless New Leader!

Moderators: montestewart, nate33, LyricalRico

payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 17,806
And1: 5,938
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Tommy Sheppard -- Fearless New Leader! 

Post#1 » by payitforward » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:02 pm

Given how extraordinarily active Sheppard has been, surely it's time for him to have his own thread.

What does everybody think so far?
Remember -- if you don't like the post above: blame Doc not me.
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 17,806
And1: 5,938
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: Tommy Sheppard 

Post#2 » by payitforward » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:03 pm

payitforward wrote:Given how extraordinarily active Sheppard has been, surely it's time for him to have his own thread.

What does everybody think so far?

Oh... & does anybody have his mobile #? Email address?
Remember -- if you don't like the post above: blame Doc not me.
montestewart
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 14,082
And1: 7,150
Joined: Feb 25, 2009

Re: Tommy Sheppard 

Post#3 » by montestewart » Tue Jul 2, 2019 3:32 am

All those years of us reading about everyone in the front office being "on the same page" and wondering if all EGgo minions were as moronic as the Grunfallo...now we get a possibly exaggerated Terd version that EGgo was a gatekeeper between subordinates and Terd, so the only place they could go with their opinions was leggo my EGgo.

If Sheppard's moves are any indication, EGgo was exposed to contrary views, but he simply chose to ignore them and instead repeatedly opted for his tried and Grunfailed formula of aging veteran, stopgaps, and silly string, ever contending to be in contention to be a contender (like a bad Terry Malloy impression).

Sheppard's moves so far, foundation laying rather than earthshaking, are the anti-EGgo moves, securing youth, stockpiling present and future assets and prospects, avoiding (so far) capping out to the max into the future, declining to mortgage future possibilities for a deluded present. The IT signing doesn't have the stink of "a new big-3" but rather a reasonably priced potential bench scorer/3rd PG option filling out the roster, perhaps establishing some goodwill, and maybe even providing some excitement for the fans.

I imagine that much of this was there all along, but EGgo discouraged vocalizing such anti-EGgoisms, so Sheppard kept his mouth shut and waited until he had his own flock. We'll see how he does on big name trades, contract negotiations, FA signings, etc. With these "little things" that EGgo rarely seemed to care about, Sheppard seems to be a huge step forward.
User avatar
FAH1223
RealGM
Posts: 12,953
And1: 5,207
Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Location: Laurel, MD
       

Re: Tommy Sheppard 

Post#4 » by FAH1223 » Tue Jul 2, 2019 6:22 am

montestewart wrote:All those years of us reading about everyone in the front office being "on the same page" and wondering if all EGgo minions were as moronic as the Grunfallo...now we get a possibly exaggerated Terd version that EGgo was a gatekeeper between subordinates and Terd, so the only place they could go with their opinions was leggo my EGgo.

If Sheppard's moves are any indication, EGgo was exposed to contrary views, but he simply chose to ignore them and instead repeatedly opted for his tried and Grunfailed formula of aging veteran, stopgaps, and silly string, ever contending to be in contention to be a contender (like a bad Terry Malloy impression).

Sheppard's moves so far, foundation laying rather than earthshaking, are the anti-EGgo moves, securing youth, stockpiling present and future assets and prospects, avoiding (so far) capping out to the max into the future, declining to mortgage future possibilities for a deluded present. The IT signing doesn't have the stink of "a new big-3" but rather a reasonably priced potential bench scorer/3rd PG option filling out the roster, perhaps establishing some goodwill, and maybe even providing some excitement for the fans.

I imagine that much of this was there all along, but EGgo discouraged vocalizing such anti-EGgoisms, so Sheppard kept his mouth shut and waited until he had his own flock. We'll see how he does on big name trades, contract negotiations, FA signings, etc. With these "little things" that EGgo rarely seemed to care about, Sheppard seems to be a huge step forward.


Ish Smith signing is very Grunfeldian though. But otherwise, it has been a little different.
Image
User avatar
gambitx777
Head Coach
Posts: 6,772
And1: 996
Joined: Dec 18, 2012

Re: Tommy Sheppard 

Post#5 » by gambitx777 » Tue Jul 2, 2019 6:43 am

Ok let's stop calling a decent vet pg on a cheap two year deal very EG like. Signing a vet pg when all we have is an undrafted rookie and a raw 19 year old Second year second round pick is a solid move. When John wall is out or hell might get traded. The IT and Smith signings tell me, that maybe we have a viable plan in the works to move wall. Considering the contracts that were handed out and the amount the jazz gave up for Mike conally. Might be possible.
FAH1223 wrote:
montestewart wrote:All those years of us reading about everyone in the front office being "on the same page" and wondering if all EGgo minions were as moronic as the Grunfallo...now we get a possibly exaggerated Terd version that EGgo was a gatekeeper between subordinates and Terd, so the only place they could go with their opinions was leggo my EGgo.

If Sheppard's moves are any indication, EGgo was exposed to contrary views, but he simply chose to ignore them and instead repeatedly opted for his tried and Grunfailed formula of aging veteran, stopgaps, and silly string, ever contending to be in contention to be a contender (like a bad Terry Malloy impression).

Sheppard's moves so far, foundation laying rather than earthshaking, are the anti-EGgo moves, securing youth, stockpiling present and future assets and prospects, avoiding (so far) capping out to the max into the future, declining to mortgage future possibilities for a deluded present. The IT signing doesn't have the stink of "a new big-3" but rather a reasonably priced potential bench scorer/3rd PG option filling out the roster, perhaps establishing some goodwill, and maybe even providing some excitement for the fans.

I imagine that much of this was there all along, but EGgo discouraged vocalizing such anti-EGgoisms, so Sheppard kept his mouth shut and waited until he had his own flock. We'll see how he does on big name trades, contract negotiations, FA signings, etc. With these "little things" that EGgo rarely seemed to care about, Sheppard seems to be a huge step forward.


Ish Smith signing is very Grunfeldian though. But otherwise, it has been a little different.


Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
FAH1223
RealGM
Posts: 12,953
And1: 5,207
Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Location: Laurel, MD
       

Re: Tommy Sheppard 

Post#6 » by FAH1223 » Tue Jul 2, 2019 3:05 pm

gambitx777 wrote:Ok let's stop calling a decent vet pg on a cheap two year deal very EG like. Signing a vet pg when all we have is an undrafted rookie and a raw 19 year old Second year second round pick is a solid move. When John wall is out or hell might get traded. The IT and Smith signings tell me, that maybe we have a viable plan in the works to move wall. Considering the contracts that were handed out and the amount the jazz gave up for Mike conally. Might be possible.



Read on Twitter


Wall isn't being traded. I'd rather have signed Payton rather than Smith.
Image
User avatar
daSwami
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,111
And1: 348
Joined: Jun 14, 2002
Location: Charlottesville
         

Re: Tommy Sheppard 

Post#7 » by daSwami » Tue Jul 2, 2019 3:15 pm

Love what I'm seeing from Shepp so far, so I'm not going to quibble over the wisdom of signing the likes of Ish Smith - who, at the very least, is a somewhat competent back-up PG, which makes him the perfect starting PG for a low-key tank.
:banghead:
Illmatic12
RealGM
Posts: 10,161
And1: 8,459
Joined: Dec 20, 2013
 

Re: Tommy Sheppard 

Post#8 » by Illmatic12 » Tue Jul 2, 2019 3:18 pm

FAH1223 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:Ok let's stop calling a decent vet pg on a cheap two year deal very EG like. Signing a vet pg when all we have is an undrafted rookie and a raw 19 year old Second year second round pick is a solid move. When John wall is out or hell might get traded. The IT and Smith signings tell me, that maybe we have a viable plan in the works to move wall. Considering the contracts that were handed out and the amount the jazz gave up for Mike conally. Might be possible.



Read on Twitter


Wall isn't being traded. I'd rather have signed Payton rather than Smith.

Why would Payton sign here as a backup (once Wall returns) when he can be a guaranteed starter in NYK?
smoothSeph
Senior
Posts: 626
And1: 403
Joined: May 15, 2019
   

Re: Tommy Sheppard 

Post#9 » by smoothSeph » Wed Jul 3, 2019 7:09 am

FAH1223 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:Ok let's stop calling a decent vet pg on a cheap two year deal very EG like. Signing a vet pg when all we have is an undrafted rookie and a raw 19 year old Second year second round pick is a solid move. When John wall is out or hell might get traded. The IT and Smith signings tell me, that maybe we have a viable plan in the works to move wall. Considering the contracts that were handed out and the amount the jazz gave up for Mike conally. Might be possible.



Read on Twitter


Wall isn't being traded. I'd rather have signed Payton rather than Smith.


Is the difference between Ish Smith and Elfrid Payton that much to bother over? Not even speaking on you personally, but I’ve seen a couple posters say this
User avatar
gambitx777
Head Coach
Posts: 6,772
And1: 996
Joined: Dec 18, 2012

Re: Tommy Sheppard 

Post#10 » by gambitx777 » Wed Jul 3, 2019 7:20 am

I'll give two reasons why wall could get moved before he comes back. Look at the money that these dudes are getting that are never going to be all stars ever. Terry got 19 mill. Wall will come back and even if he is only every 75 % of what he was at his peak, Terry isn't ever going to be have of what wall will be or was. Look at what the jazz have up for Connelly . Connelly has been hurt a lot changed his game and came back. So there may be a team that looks at wall and says hey let's do this for a cap dump now and we might get a huge discount on him vs what he might cost later.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
queridiculo
RealGM
Posts: 16,505
And1: 7,803
Joined: Mar 29, 2005
Location: Maximum Pain Zone
   

Re: Tommy Sheppard 

Post#11 » by queridiculo » Wed Jul 3, 2019 8:04 am

gambitx777 wrote:I'll give two reasons why wall could get moved before he comes back. Look at the money that these dudes are getting that are never going to be all stars ever. Terry got 19 mill. Wall will come back and even if he is only every 75 % of what he was at his peak, Terry isn't ever going to be have of what wall will be or was. Look at what the jazz have up for Connelly . Connelly has been hurt a lot changed his game and came back. So there may be a team that looks at wall and says hey let's do this for a cap dump now and we might get a huge discount on him vs what he might cost later.


Strange take.

Isn't the median income of borderline stars going up pretty much a case for the Wizards staying put and getting Wall back into the mix?

Assuming Wall rehabs his injury and comes back productive, what other realistic avenue would the team have to bring somebody on board that approximates his impact?

Making drastic moves without having seen Wall play a minute of basketball post injury is a sure fire way of diluting an asset or to throw away good assets to clear a contract.

Patience is the key here.

Washington isn't going to turn things around in one season, but if things break just right for Washington they could surprise people as early as next season.

Washington has quite a bit of salary cap flexibility next season, so there's reason to be optimistic despite the poor outlook for the upcoming season.
User avatar
gambitx777
Head Coach
Posts: 6,772
And1: 996
Joined: Dec 18, 2012

Re: Tommy Sheppard 

Post#12 » by gambitx777 » Wed Jul 3, 2019 8:30 am

This is my opinion, for what it's worth. It's less about wall as a play and what we can get from him and more about moving on. Beal is the guy he's said and done the right things, and if he is willing to be here and it seems like he is. We need to show him that he's the guy. Wall needs to go. Yes there is a level of what can you get or what's the cost, but if you can move him with out giving up a lot, I think you do it just to move on, and let the chips fall where they may, this is a new locker room and Beal is going to be the leader and it's not worth a blow up that could split the boys, I'm not saying pay to dump him but you take the first chance you get to move on and you run with it. If he can't be like "look bro, it's your team, I'm just here trying to live my life, and play my game" it's not worth loosing Beal, or Beal loosing the locker room. All of this isn't indictment on him as a person or a player, it's an indictment on him here in DC he won't have issues with Beal on another team because Beal won't be there. He needs a new start and we need to love on with out him. That's just my opinion.
queridiculo wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I'll give two reasons why wall could get moved before he comes back. Look at the money that these dudes are getting that are never going to be all stars ever. Terry got 19 mill. Wall will come back and even if he is only every 75 % of what he was at his peak, Terry isn't ever going to be have of what wall will be or was. Look at what the jazz have up for Connelly . Connelly has been hurt a lot changed his game and came back. So there may be a team that looks at wall and says hey let's do this for a cap dump now and we might get a huge discount on him vs what he might cost later.


Strange take.

Isn't the median income of borderline stars going up pretty much a case for the Wizards staying put and getting Wall back into the mix?

Assuming Wall rehabs his injury and comes back productive, what other realistic avenue would the team have to bring somebody on board that approximates his impact?

Making drastic moves without having seen Wall play a minute of basketball post injury is a sure fire way of diluting an asset or to throw away good assets to clear a contract.

Patience is the key here.

Washington isn't going to turn things around in one season, but if things break just right for Washington they could surprise people as early as next season.

Washington has quite a bit of salary cap flexibility next season, so there's reason to be optimistic despite the poor outlook for the upcoming season.


Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
queridiculo
RealGM
Posts: 16,505
And1: 7,803
Joined: Mar 29, 2005
Location: Maximum Pain Zone
   

Re: Tommy Sheppard 

Post#13 » by queridiculo » Wed Jul 3, 2019 8:31 am

daSwami wrote:Love what I'm seeing from Shepp so far, so I'm not going to quibble over the wisdom of signing the likes of Ish Smith - who, at the very least, is a somewhat competent back-up PG, which makes him the perfect starting PG for a low-key tank.


Seeing how Sheppard has operated since the draft I find it hard to imagine that he was an integral part of the decision making process that culminated in the Porter/Oubre salary dump.

That's perhaps my biggest apprehension about removing the interim title from Sheppard, how big of a part did he have in this mess before?

I found the Hachimura pick uninspiring, but I liked his maneuvering to pick up Admiral in the 2nd round, and despite not exactly having a ton to work with, he managed to net a return on an undesirably outcome in the loss of Satoransky.

The pick swap on the 2020 Bulls/Memphis 2nd rounder could net a high choice and the 2022 swap could return another high pick with Detroit conceivable being in the midst of another rebuild by then.

Then there's Thomas Bryant whom he not only had a hand in signing in the first place but also managed to bring back on a team friendly 3 year deal.

I'm not a big fan of Jabari Parker, but if the Wizards get granted a DPE for Wall and Sheppard manages to bring back Parker or manages to add Rondae Hollis-Jefferson for next season I'd give him an A for the work he's done considering the circumstances.
User avatar
gambitx777
Head Coach
Posts: 6,772
And1: 996
Joined: Dec 18, 2012

Re: Tommy Sheppard 

Post#14 » by gambitx777 » Wed Jul 3, 2019 8:55 am

I feel like the question isn't, how big a roll did he play, it's what did he learn from the mistakes. At the end of the day EG was calling the shots, he gave orders the guys fallowed them he made the calls. Even if they went along with it. It's their job too. Also let say some of the mistakes he believed in, EG never once learned from a mistake he just kept making choices based on god only know what. If Tommy can learn and how much he learns from all those mistakes. That's the real thing to look at.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
FAH1223
RealGM
Posts: 12,953
And1: 5,207
Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Location: Laurel, MD
       

Re: Tommy Sheppard 

Post#15 » by FAH1223 » Wed Jul 3, 2019 3:04 pm

Dave Joerger and Amin ElHassan defend Tommy Sheppard

Image
DCZards
General Manager
Posts: 8,799
And1: 2,999
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Location: The Streets of DC
     

Re: Tommy Sheppard 

Post#16 » by DCZards » Wed Jul 3, 2019 5:14 pm

gambitx777 wrote:This is my opinion, for what it's worth. It's less about wall as a play and what we can get from him and more about moving on. Beal is the guy he's said and done the right things, and if he is willing to be here and it seems like he is. We need to show him that he's the guy. Wall needs to go. Yes there is a level of what can you get or what's the cost, but if you can move him with out giving up a lot, I think you do it just to move on, and let the chips fall where they may, this is a new locker room and Beal is going to be the leader and it's not worth a blow up that could split the boys, I'm not saying pay to dump him but you take the first chance you get to move on and you run with it. If he can't be like "look bro, it's your team, I'm just here trying to live my life, and play my game" it's not worth loosing Beal, or Beal loosing the locker room. All of this isn't indictment on him as a person or a player, it's an indictment on him here in DC he won't have issues with Beal on another team because Beal won't be there. He needs a new start and we need to love on with out him. That's just my opinion.


I don't buy this belief that there's some sort of schism between Beal and Wall...or that the two somehow can't co-exist on the Zards. Yes, at one time, there were reports that the BB and JW were having issues. But that was almost 3 years ago. Both guys are older--and presumably wiser and more mature--and they likely realize that they need each other to succeed (i.e. win basketball games).

Last week, Beal received the community assist award at the NBA awards banquet. And who did Brad ask to present the award to him? John Wall. I think Beal and Wall are tighter and more on the same page as it relates to the Zards future than folks give them credit for.

I think it's a mistake to justify trading Wall based on the perception that he and Beal can't get along or that Wall can't or won't fit in with Zards new locker room. There's no basis for that belief, imo.
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 17,806
And1: 5,938
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: Tommy Sheppard 

Post#17 » by payitforward » Wed Jul 3, 2019 6:07 pm

DCZards wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:This is my opinion, for what it's worth. It's less about wall as a play and what we can get from him and more about moving on. Beal is the guy he's said and done the right things, and if he is willing to be here and it seems like he is. We need to show him that he's the guy. Wall needs to go. Yes there is a level of what can you get or what's the cost, but if you can move him with out giving up a lot, I think you do it just to move on, and let the chips fall where they may, this is a new locker room and Beal is going to be the leader and it's not worth a blow up that could split the boys, I'm not saying pay to dump him but you take the first chance you get to move on and you run with it. If he can't be like "look bro, it's your team, I'm just here trying to live my life, and play my game" it's not worth loosing Beal, or Beal loosing the locker room. All of this isn't indictment on him as a person or a player, it's an indictment on him here in DC he won't have issues with Beal on another team because Beal won't be there. He needs a new start and we need to love on with out him. That's just my opinion.


I don't buy this belief that there's some sort of schism between Beal and Wall...or that the two somehow can't co-exist on the Zards. Yes, at one time, there were reports that the BB and JW were having issues. But that was almost 3 years ago. Both guys are older--and presumably wiser and more mature--and they likely realize that they need each other to succeed (i.e. win basketball games).

Last week, Beal received the community assist award at the NBA awards banquet. And who did Brad ask to present the award to him? John Wall. I think Beal and Wall are tighter and more on the same page as it relates to the Zards future than folks give them credit for.

I think it's a mistake to justify trading Wall based on the perception that he and Beal can't get along or that Wall can't or won't fit in with Zards new locker room. There's no basis for that belief, imo.

I agree 100%, Zards. It's a non-issue.
Remember -- if you don't like the post above: blame Doc not me.
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 61,538
And1: 14,068
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Tommy Sheppard 

Post#18 » by nate33 » Wed Jul 3, 2019 6:20 pm

payitforward wrote:
DCZards wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:This is my opinion, for what it's worth. It's less about wall as a play and what we can get from him and more about moving on. Beal is the guy he's said and done the right things, and if he is willing to be here and it seems like he is. We need to show him that he's the guy. Wall needs to go. Yes there is a level of what can you get or what's the cost, but if you can move him with out giving up a lot, I think you do it just to move on, and let the chips fall where they may, this is a new locker room and Beal is going to be the leader and it's not worth a blow up that could split the boys, I'm not saying pay to dump him but you take the first chance you get to move on and you run with it. If he can't be like "look bro, it's your team, I'm just here trying to live my life, and play my game" it's not worth loosing Beal, or Beal loosing the locker room. All of this isn't indictment on him as a person or a player, it's an indictment on him here in DC he won't have issues with Beal on another team because Beal won't be there. He needs a new start and we need to love on with out him. That's just my opinion.


I don't buy this belief that there's some sort of schism between Beal and Wall...or that the two somehow can't co-exist on the Zards. Yes, at one time, there were reports that the BB and JW were having issues. But that was almost 3 years ago. Both guys are older--and presumably wiser and more mature--and they likely realize that they need each other to succeed (i.e. win basketball games).

Last week, Beal received the community assist award at the NBA awards banquet. And who did Brad ask to present the award to him? John Wall. I think Beal and Wall are tighter and more on the same page as it relates to the Zards future than folks give them credit for.

I think it's a mistake to justify trading Wall based on the perception that he and Beal can't get along or that Wall can't or won't fit in with Zards new locker room. There's no basis for that belief, imo.

I agree 100%, Zards. It's a non-issue.

There is no schism, but gambitx777 is right that we should dump Wall if it can ever be done painlessly. Not because of any rift between Wall and Beal, but because we are rebuilding a team full of guys in the 20-25 year old range, not an injury prone 29-year-old with a giant contract.

It's a moot point though. Wall is absolutely unmovable now and there is zero chance he could be moved (without heavy cost) until next summer. I actually think the first time he could be realistically moved is at the Trade Deadline in the 2020-21 season. He could sent away then for expiring contracts and the receiving would essentially be trading two expiring dead weight contracts for 2 years of John Wall at $44M a year. The right kind of desperate team might do something like that (but probably not).
Illmatic12
RealGM
Posts: 10,161
And1: 8,459
Joined: Dec 20, 2013
 

Re: Tommy Sheppard 

Post#19 » by Illmatic12 » Wed Jul 3, 2019 6:29 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=21
User avatar
doclinkin
RealGM
Posts: 11,218
And1: 3,415
Joined: Jul 26, 2004
Location: .wizuds.

Re: Tommy Sheppard 

Post#20 » by doclinkin » Wed Jul 3, 2019 8:55 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21



That's one thing going for Tommy. He seems to have made friends and earned respect all over the league.

Return to Washington Wizards