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Davis Bertans "the Latvian Laser"

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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#461 » by closg00 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:29 pm

Frichuela wrote:Interesting language on year 5 of Davis contract..

Read on Twitter
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Well i'll be damned, Tommy did learn something from Ernie's mistakes.

5-year contracts signed to-date:

Jayson Tatum Super Max
Donovan Mitchell - Super Max
Davis Bertans

Bertans is the only non-Super Max player to receive a 5-year contract, but at-least Tommy structured the deal in a non-Grunfeld way for a change.
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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#462 » by doclinkin » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:43 pm

Yeah we are in the Davis Bertans era of the Washington Wizards.
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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#463 » by TGW » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:47 pm

Dario Saric, who was my Bertans alternative, signed for $27MM. Much better value. Bertans is a superior player, but he sure as hell isn't $53MM better.
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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#464 » by AWIZZINGBULLET » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:30 pm

Chaos Revenant wrote:I cannot believe that we're here saying that 5 years 80m to a guy who plays no defense and has who's torn the same ACL twice is a defensible move. Shep really is Grunfeld 2.0. Unreal. I'm back to my previous position that the Dan Snyder Washington franchise is more likely to win than the Pollin/Leonsis led Washington franchise. At least Snyder wants to win, even if his Trumpian narcissism keeps him from doing the things needed to win. Leonsis straight up doesn't give a ****.

We've also spent two top 10 picks and a top 15 pick at the forward positions, and are potentially about to blow up the franchise anyway. Seriously, what is the plan here.


Completely agree.

Folks are saying it's a great signing because he's white let's be honest; he's fiery, can shoot, is tall, is a defensive liability, doesn't attack the basket, can't create his own shot, can't create for others, and is a soft-ass rebounding.

How folks can say this is a good signing, with the belief that he'll be playing out the deal in Washington is beyond me.

Anyhow, I think the deal was offered with the intent of having him sign and then using the contract as part of a trade, which is just fine with me.

I like what Bertans brings, but he ain't worth 16 million a year, for five years--- not on a Wizards roster.
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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#465 » by prime1time » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:40 pm

AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:
Chaos Revenant wrote:I cannot believe that we're here saying that 5 years 80m to a guy who plays no defense and has who's torn the same ACL twice is a defensible move. Shep really is Grunfeld 2.0. Unreal. I'm back to my previous position that the Dan Snyder Washington franchise is more likely to win than the Pollin/Leonsis led Washington franchise. At least Snyder wants to win, even if his Trumpian narcissism keeps him from doing the things needed to win. Leonsis straight up doesn't give a ****.

We've also spent two top 10 picks and a top 15 pick at the forward positions, and are potentially about to blow up the franchise anyway. Seriously, what is the plan here.


Completely agree.

Folks are saying it's a great signing because he's white let's be honest; he's fiery, can shoot, is tall, is a defensive liability, doesn't attack the basket, can't create his own shot, can't create for others, and is a soft-ass rebounding.

How folks can say this is a good signing, with the belief that he'll be playing out the deal in Washington is beyond me.

Anyhow, I think the deal was offered with the intent of having him sign and then using the contract as part of a trade, which is just fine with me.

I like what Bertans brings, but he ain't worth 16 million a year, for five years--- not on a Wizards roster.

I completely disagree. More so, I'm tired of people constantly bringing up Grunfeld. It has no relevance to the discussion. But let's have that conversation. We paid Ian Mahimi 16 million to sit on the bench for 4 years. Now the random race reference is just embarrassing and nonsensical.

What would have been a good deal?
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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#466 » by pcbothwel » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:51 pm

TGW wrote:Dario Saric, who was my Bertans alternative, signed for $27MM. Much better value. Bertans is a superior player, but he sure as hell isn't $53MM better.


:roll:
Bertans signed for 5 years, while Saric for 3.

Hell, even saying 16M per is a bit misleading because of the length of the deal. Bertans signed a deal at 12.5% of the cap, which is a Great deal when you look at the other contracts with similar structures (escalating year over year)even just a year ago:
Bojan: 4/73M, 18.3M/year... 15.6% of the cap.

And nothing against Saric, but I feel as though people see a guy that can hit 3's in the 36-38% range and all of a sudden he's a "shooter".
There are levels to this. Bertans steps past half court and is a threat in the way no other player in the league is besides Curry. Again, many advanced "Catch all" stats with On/off (RPM, Raptor, etc.) all show him to have a tremendous effect on the game despite his below average defense, rebounding, creating, etc.

How? Simply put, his skill set is so unique and dominating that it overwhelms teams. That said, I dont think we've seen the best version yet. I think he's going to have a Klay Thompson season here soon.
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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#467 » by Chaos Revenant » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:53 pm

prime1time wrote:
AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:I completely disagree. More so, I'm tired of people constantly bringing up Grunfeld. It has no relevance to the discussion. But let's have that conversation. We paid Ian Mahimi 16 million to sit on the bench for 4 years. Now the random race reference is just embarrassing and nonsensical.

What would have been a good deal?


The Mahimmi deal was *far* more defensible than this. Mahimmi had, if nothing else, elite defensive impact for a team that was 3rd in the league in DRTG. That was an overpay, but on the face, it only looks terrible because Ian was constantly hurt. Meanwhile, Bertrans is a 20 mpg rotation player on a good team no matter how good a shooter he is, and we've drafted 3 forwards in the top 15 the past 3 years, 2 in the top 10. Unless you think he's going to make Avidja and Hachimura good shooters by osmosis, you're paying 16m a year over 5 years for elite level shooting and nothing else, at a position where either you're loaded as **** or you've blown at least one top 10 draft pick.

Bertrans should have been traded at the deadline, or allowed to walk to a contender, but the brass decided they liked him, so he gets the big deal. It's the same logic as Etan Thomas, they think he has "intangibles" or whatever that are worth overpaying for.
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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#468 » by TGW » Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:53 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
TGW wrote:Dario Saric, who was my Bertans alternative, signed for $27MM. Much better value. Bertans is a superior player, but he sure as hell isn't $53MM better.


:roll:
Bertans signed for 5 years, while Saric for 3.

I think he's going to have a Klay Thompson season here soon.

:roll:

Delusional homer statement.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#469 » by pcbothwel » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:29 pm

TGW wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
TGW wrote:Dario Saric, who was my Bertans alternative, signed for $27MM. Much better value. Bertans is a superior player, but he sure as hell isn't $53MM better.


:roll:
Bertans signed for 5 years, while Saric for 3.

I think he's going to have a Klay Thompson season here soon.

:roll:

Delusional homer statement.


Delusional? I think you may be overrating Klay, but I digress.
You just compared Bertans to Saric, One is a net positive on the court... the other a negative, but sure, Saric was a bit cheaper.
#sowizards

Bertans is better than Bojan, Bogdan, Morris, Jeremi Grant, Beasley, Barnes, Randle, Rozier, etc... all players that are getting about the same or more than Bertans.
What is the complaint?

And to circle back to Klay:
https://stathead.com/tiny/2bxSv
Bertans vs Klay... Both age 27.

Sorry, but Im not seeing it. Klay is one of the more overrated players of this generation. Playing with Steph & KD, Im not impressed.
Bertans is more efficient, draws more fouls, and rebounds more while playing with trash in comparison to that GSW team.
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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#470 » by nate33 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:57 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
TGW wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
:roll:
Bertans signed for 5 years, while Saric for 3.


:roll:

Delusional homer statement.


Delusional? I think you may be overrating Klay, but I digress.
You just compared Bertans to Saric, One is a net positive on the court... the other a negative, but sure, Saric was a bit cheaper.
#sowizards

Bertans is better than Bojan, Bogdan, Morris, Jeremi Grant, Beasley, Barnes, Randle, Rozier, etc... all players that are getting about the same or more than Bertans.
What is the complaint?

And to circle back to Klay:
https://stathead.com/tiny/2bxSv
Bertans vs Klay... Both age 27.

Sorry, but Im not seeing it. Klay is one of the more overrated players of this generation. Playing with Steph & KD, Im not impressed.
Bertans is more efficient, draws more fouls, and rebounds more while playing with trash in comparison to that GSW team.

I think it's totally reasonable to compare Bertans to Klay offensively. Bertans really is that good.

The difference is that Klay is a plus defender who is switchable 1 through 4. Bertans is, at best, a serviceable team defender and a poor on ball defender.
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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#471 » by tontoz » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:58 pm

The team is pot committed to trying to win now with the Wall/Beal combo. It doesnt make sense to have those two on team while the rest of the team is being rebuilt through the draft.

Bertans complements them very well so resigning him makes sense when you are trying to win now. He is not just a shooter he is an elite shooter with a quick/high release and no conscience. But i would try to make his contract tied to Wall's in terms of length. I think they wimped out in negotiations. I think a 3 year deal, to match the contracts of Wall/Beal, would make more sense.
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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#472 » by closg00 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:08 pm

AWIZZINGBULLET wrote:
Chaos Revenant wrote:I cannot believe that we're here saying that 5 years 80m to a guy who plays no defense and has who's torn the same ACL twice is a defensible move. Shep really is Grunfeld 2.0. Unreal. I'm back to my previous position that the Dan Snyder Washington franchise is more likely to win than the Pollin/Leonsis led Washington franchise. At least Snyder wants to win, even if his Trumpian narcissism keeps him from doing the things needed to win. Leonsis straight up doesn't give a ****.

We've also spent two top 10 picks and a top 15 pick at the forward positions, and are potentially about to blow up the franchise anyway. Seriously, what is the plan here.


Completely agree.

Folks are saying it's a great signing because he's white let's be honest; he's fiery, can shoot, is tall, is a defensive liability, doesn't attack the basket, can't create his own shot, can't create for others, and is a soft-ass rebounding.

How folks can say this is a good signing, with the belief that he'll be playing out the deal in Washington is beyond me.

Anyhow, I think the deal was offered with the intent of having him sign and then using the contract as part of a trade, which is just fine with me.

I like what Bertans brings, but he ain't worth 16 million a year, for five years--- not on a Wizards roster.


Our reaction is that of the low self-esteem Wizards fan, the guy who is happy to that somebody likes him.
Happy to have Bertans back, but come-on, in the real world this is an over-pay.
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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#473 » by pancakes3 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:12 pm

16 mil in 2020 is different from 16 mil in 2005. this is just what good journeymen make now. what used to be a 30 mil/year contract is now a 50 mil/year (which makes a 16 mil/year contract comparable to a 10/year contract from a few years ago).
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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#474 » by pcbothwel » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:10 pm

pancakes3 wrote:16 mil in 2020 is different from 16 mil in 2005. this is just what good journeymen make now. what used to be a 30 mil/year contract is now a 50 mil/year (which makes a 16 mil/year contract comparable to a 10/year contract from a few years ago).


Agreed... but its actually less than that. Because He didnt sign a 2/32M deal (16 per)... He signed for 5 years, which means we really need to factor in % of the cap due to cap increase.
Bertans will be making ~13-14% of the cap for the duration of his contract... I have a hard time seeing this come back to bite us.
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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#475 » by pcbothwel » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:00 pm

Read on Twitter


Interesting
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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#476 » by tontoz » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:30 pm

Bertans is like the honey badger he just don't care...

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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#477 » by trast66 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:42 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:16 mil in 2020 is different from 16 mil in 2005. this is just what good journeymen make now. what used to be a 30 mil/year contract is now a 50 mil/year (which makes a 16 mil/year contract comparable to a 10/year contract from a few years ago).


Agreed... but its actually less than that. Because He didnt sign a 2/32M deal (16 per)... He signed for 5 years, which means we really need to factor in % of the cap due to cap increase.
Bertans will be making ~13-14% of the cap for the duration of his contract... I have a hard time seeing this come back to bite us.


Cap increase? We shall see about that.
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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#478 » by prime1time » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:31 am

I love all the amateur GM's who know so much. Why overpay for Bertans. Trade Bertans for a first-round pick. Now we don't overpay Bertans and we have an extra first-round pick to groom. Because obviously, Beal doesn't care whether Bertans stays or goes. He's committed to us regardless.It was never a question of resigning Bertans or not resigning Bertans. It has always been of a question of going into full-fledged rebuild mode or not.

So the real question is is it better to have Bertans on a slightly overvalued contract that can always be moved barring catastrophic injury or not. Would teams have signed for Bertans for 10 million? 12 million? 14 million? But the extra 2 million is what makes the Wizards a badly run franchise. "But it's not about the money it's about the years." Oh, here's a question. Let's say Giannis extends supermax. And the Bucks are making a major push but they need more floor spacing so Giannis can create. I know crazy scenario because shooting and floor spacing are useless in this NBA, and I mean obviously, who wants a "is a defensive liability, doesn't attack the basket, can't create his own shot, can't create for others (wrong), and is a soft-ass rebounding."

Even overlooking the obvious falsehoods - Bertans can create his own shot, he can create for others and his job isn't to rebound - your post makes no sense. Bertans was one of the most sought after players in free agency. He was one of the most sought after players before the trade deadline. And for all the crying about the overpay you guys ignore the fact that Bertans is of tremendous value and will be easy to move to a team trying to win it all. I'd go a step further and say that Bertans elite shooting is good enough to push a contending team over the top. So however much we slightly overpaid him is irrelevant given the fact that he can be easily moved.

What we have here is just the descent of this board into battered woman syndrome. It is time to realize that many posters on this board lack the ability to be objective when it comes to decisions this team makes. If you want to argue against resigning Bertans that's fine. But do it with logical consistency and argue why a rebuild not later but right now is the best move. Argue why removing the best example of what an NBA should be in Beal from the locker room will advance what we are trying to do. It's easy to pick apart moves in a vacuum. But the reality is that this 5 year 80 million dollar deal was inevitable the moment we decided to try to piece something together around Beal.

Lastly, how about we talk about how we got here. For all the people that want to trash our current GM for doing such a terrible job.
https://www.nba.com/wizards/wizards-acquire-davis-bertans-from-spurs-aaron-white
For the rights to Aaron White we bought Bertans in. Aaron White has never even played a game in the NBA. Where is the credit for this trade? But no, all we get is irrational arguments about how Ian Mahimi's contract is better. Maybe it's just me but can someone link to the articles of everyone trying to trade for the defensive wiz Ian Mahimi? I must have missed it. Snyder better than Leonsis. Mike Rizzo better than Tommy Sheppard. DC United better run than the Washington Wizards. Who cares? This is the Davis Bertans thread. You want to argue about the GM or the management, there's a thread for that.

Shooting deep 3's at both high volume and high accuracy is the most valuable commodity in this NBA. Bertans has it and teams will be willing to trade for it because it can be the difference between winning a championship and not winning a championship. Unless the contract is so bad that no team would be willing to trade for him, debating whether or not he is overpaid is a purely intellectual exercise and has no actual bearing on reality other than to attack management for a decision that was 100% necessary.
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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#479 » by pcbothwel » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:55 pm

trast66 wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:16 mil in 2020 is different from 16 mil in 2005. this is just what good journeymen make now. what used to be a 30 mil/year contract is now a 50 mil/year (which makes a 16 mil/year contract comparable to a 10/year contract from a few years ago).


Agreed... but its actually less than that. Because He didnt sign a 2/32M deal (16 per)... He signed for 5 years, which means we really need to factor in % of the cap due to cap increase.
Bertans will be making ~13-14% of the cap for the duration of his contract... I have a hard time seeing this come back to bite us.


Cap increase? We shall see about that.


Ummm. Yeah, they have already announced the cap number for the next 3 years... its underwhelming compared to the normal increase, but 3-4M per year still helps.
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Re: Report: Bertans resigns 5 years, 80 million 

Post#480 » by WizarDynasty » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:32 pm

That quick high release above the eye socket, three point shot takes decades to master and with his height. Plus he knows Pops old system. This was a great signing.
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