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Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2

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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#601 » by gambitx777 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:13 pm

Depends on who we cut to make room for him. But he's 27... So idk .I'm still mad about Anderson and Jones. Over miles and it/ian
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#602 » by payitforward » Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:34 am

McKinnie is rather similar to Justin Anderson. If we waived Anderson, we aren't picking up McKinnie. Anyway, we have our complement of 15 players. If we wind up getting an exception we'll sign someone else. But McKinnie is likely to find a home before that.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#603 » by prime1time » Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:51 am

It seems to me that the hopes of the franchise rest on the backs of Rui and Thomas Bryant. IF these two guys can develop into good players. Knocking down 3's, rebounding, playing good defense etc. the Wiz will be a very tough team to beat. You can say that it is only pre-season, but today Rui and TB went up against Embiid and Horford and held their own. Combined they went 4-6 from the 3-pt line and for the entire pre-season, Rui went 4-9 from 3 and TB went 9-21 from 3. In fact, against 76ers TB actually set a screen for Rui to pop out and shoot the 3. It's hard to stress how much this will challenge defenses.

Also, did you guys see Embiid bight on Thomas Bryant's pump fake at the 3-point line? Embiid is arguably the most athletic center in the game, and he can't stick with TB at both the 3-point line and his drive. Just imagine what's going to happen to the bad centers. Then throw Beal into the mix and now you are going to get a highly dynamic offensive team. If this team knocks down shots, they are going to run through NBA defenses.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#604 » by gambitx777 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:28 am

If the wizards continue to play team ball, and shoot smart from the 3 at a high percentage, this team could Be a really really good team on the attack. The question is can wall when back fit. Or is he going to clog the ball. Will wall returns as hero ball wall or will he see the truth and use his superior PG skills and cort vision to help the team grow and not worry about the stat line????????

What upgrades can the wizards make right now? I'm assuming we are keeping Ian and miles because of the money to use in trades.

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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#605 » by Ruzious » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:54 am

payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
payitforward wrote:The more I think about Tommy waiving Justin Anderson, the less I understand why they did it. I can't think of any sensible reason at all. Especially since I assume they could have signed him to an extremely team-friendly 3-year deal.

Why keep McRae instead? Anderson is by far the better player, 3 years younger, etc. No difference in cost.

Why keep Miles instead? Again, Anderson is the better player. Admittedly, we'd have had to eat Miles's salary, but the overall delta is only $1.65m.

I find this a mystifying decision. The only excuse I can think of is that they have a deal worked out with his agent to sign him once the player exception comes through.

Worth mentioning that they have not picked up McRae's option yet; he's still unguaranteed. So, maybe there's another shuffle of the deck coming?

I wanted to keep Anderson, but... it's not hard to understand him getting cut - especially when compared to McRae. The main reason he was picked was that he's a good run and jump athlete who made 3's in his junior season at UVA. He's never been even adequate at 3 point shooting in any of his other seasons - college or pro. And while he's a good run/jump athlete, there's no wiggle in his game - he's strictly straight ahead. He can't drive by anyone. He's a VERY limited player. His offensive skills are nowhere near what McRae's are - who can handle, create, pass, and score. And actually McRae's size and length are similar to Anderson's even though Anderson's a forward and McRae's a guard. Anderson weighs about 30 lbs more, but that's his only real advantage. I know you're a McRae "hater", but he's simply a better basketball player than Anderson.

Ruz, I knew who McRae was well before you did. I knew that he scored 36 points for the Cavs in a game late in the 2015-16 season. As far back as the Summer after the '14 draft, I thought he had a shot to be a player in this league. So, no, I'm not a McRae "hater." Far from it.

But, in 5 seasons of spot play in and out of the league, he never really made good on the promise I'd seen. Not at Phoenix. Not at Cleveland. Then he was out of the league for a year. Until we picked him up as a 2 way player.

The idea that he's "a better basketball player than Anderson" is... off the wall, as we used to say decades ago when I was young. For sure, it's not based on anything you've actually seen in either player over the years, though I don't doubt that we both watched the 3 pre-season games this year & saw McRae play all of his 333 minutes for the Wizards last year. & it's not based on numbers -- that is for absolutely sure! -- given how mediocre McRae's numbers were. Anderson was a far better college player, & he was far better than McRae for both his first two NBA teams, Dallas & Philly.

McRae may improve. Anderson may not maintain the ability to shoot the 3 that he showed with us. McRae certainly doesn't shoot it well. I wish both these guys well. McRae is a Wizard, so I especially wish him well.

But, lets be real: as Dat wrote, what he's shown in his career is that he is "a 12th to 15th guy on an NBA roster." That's accurate, because it's direct observation & no more -- it's what he's actually done, not a narrative about his abilities to do x, y & z.

Lol, when someone does nothing but criticize a player, that makes him a "hater". Everyone under 80 understands that. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's true. And that's all you have done to McRae at least a dozen times that I've seen. You are the definition of a hater when it comes to McRae - end of that discussion.

The fact is - he actually did play pretty well last season - at least compared to Anderson. It's clear that that's not an off the wall comment. Compare him to Anderson. Anderson's efg was 48.4% compared to McRae's 50.8%. Anderson's TS% was .516 compared to McRae's .550. Anderson's PER was 11.2 compared to McRae's 14.3. I know you don't care much about scoring, but McRae was easily the top scorer in the G League - with per game averages of 30.3 points, 5 rebounds, 3.8 A/3.5 to's, 1.4 steals, shooting 53.1% from 2 and making 7.1 FT's out of 8.3 attempts. Knowing you, your response will be... "You really think he's going to score 30 points a game in the NBA?" And in the NBA, he showed he could split the PG duties when playing with Beal. He's a skilled offensive player and has the ability to defend - even if he's been inconsistent there. Anderson is not a skilled offensive player, and you'd know that if you watched him. My recollection is that an injury killed 2 of McRae's seasons - he was out for most of a season and took another season to get back in rhythm. He's also a lot stronger than he was in 2014 - as I'm sure you would have noticed from seeing him in 2014 and seeing him now - right? One is skilled, the other isn't. And McRae's been one of the Wiz' top players in the preseason while Anderson played well enough to get cut.

I mean... we can disagree on this, but for you to actually say my view is off the wall... lmao - just look at the preseason. And you know my thoughts were exactly the same before the preseason. Right?

Btw, you're quoting Dat as an authority? Ok.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#606 » by Illmatic12 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:57 pm

prime1time wrote:It seems to me that the hopes of the franchise rest on the backs of Rui and Thomas Bryant. IF these two guys can develop into good players. Knocking down 3's, rebounding, playing good defense etc. the Wiz will be a very tough team to beat. You can say that it is only pre-season, but today Rui and TB went up against Embiid and Horford and held their own. Combined they went 4-6 from the 3-pt line and for the entire pre-season, Rui went 4-9 from 3 and TB went 9-21 from 3. In fact, against 76ers TB actually set a screen for Rui to pop out and shoot the 3. It's hard to stress how much this will challenge defenses.

Also, did you guys see Embiid bight on Thomas Bryant's pump fake at the 3-point line? Embiid is arguably the most athletic center in the game, and he can't stick with TB at both the 3-point line and his drive. Just imagine what's going to happen to the bad centers. Then throw Beal into the mix and now you are going to get a highly dynamic offensive team. If this team knocks down shots, they are going to run through NBA defenses.

Bryant looks much more physically capable of handling big centers. I remember he got benched last season against Embiid and Steven Adams. If he’s able to hold up against bigger starting Cs it completely changes our season.

Love seeing him make plays on the short roll like this as well:

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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#607 » by nate33 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:37 pm

prime1time wrote:It seems to me that the hopes of the franchise rest on the backs of Rui and Thomas Bryant. IF these two guys can develop into good players. Knocking down 3's, rebounding, playing good defense etc. the Wiz will be a very tough team to beat. You can say that it is only pre-season, but today Rui and TB went up against Embiid and Horford and held their own. Combined they went 4-6 from the 3-pt line and for the entire pre-season, Rui went 4-9 from 3 and TB went 9-21 from 3. In fact, against 76ers TB actually set a screen for Rui to pop out and shoot the 3. It's hard to stress how much this will challenge defenses.

Also, did you guys see Embiid bight on Thomas Bryant's pump fake at the 3-point line? Embiid is arguably the most athletic center in the game, and he can't stick with TB at both the 3-point line and his drive. Just imagine what's going to happen to the bad centers. Then throw Beal into the mix and now you are going to get a highly dynamic offensive team. If this team knocks down shots, they are going to run through NBA defenses.

The Wizards are going to score this year. I have little doubt about that. And the starting unit, with Beal, Brown, Rui and Bryant, won't be terrible defensively and should only get moderately outrebounded. However, the second unit is going to get murdered on the glass.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#608 » by smoothSeph » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:18 pm

You’d think Anderson was the savior of this franchise the way some posters are complaining about letting him go.

Neither him or Jemerrio Jones are pieces on a contending team.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#609 » by payitforward » Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:37 pm

Ruzious wrote:Lol, when someone does nothing but criticize a player, that makes him a "hater". Everyone under 80 understands that. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's true. And that's all you have done to McRae at least a dozen times that I've seen. You are the definition of a hater when it comes to McRae - end of that discussion.

I know if I'm a hater, Ruz. In this case, not.
Ruzious wrote:The fact is - he actually did play pretty well last season - at least compared to Anderson. It's clear that that's not an off the wall comment. Compare him to Anderson. Anderson's efg was 48.4% compared to McRae's 50.8%. Anderson's TS% was .516 compared to McRae's .550. Anderson's PER was 11.2 compared to McRae's 14.3. I know you don't care much about scoring...

Of course I care about scoring -- & w/o question McRae was the better & more efficient scorer last year. But, you can't leave everything else out -- as if nothing else mattered in judging a player, or even as if nothing else a player did affected "scoring." You want to count spacing (as you should), but you don't want to look at the more than 2.5 times the offensive boards that Anderson got & consider the effect of those possessions on scoring.

But, a more serious concern -- at least for me -- is that I've tried to drop this now pointless subject a few times! Yet, you don't want to let it go. I've written repeatedly that I hope McRae kills it this year, but you want to insist I somehow "hate" on the guy.

Otoh, this...
Ruzious wrote:...McRae was easily the top scorer in the G League - with per game averages of 30.3 points, 5 rebounds, 3.8 A/3.5 to's, 1.4 steals, shooting 53.1% from 2 and making 7.1 FT's out of 8.3 attempts....

...is absolutely relevant, & I forgot to even look at those numbers! Very much my bad! Moreover, this...
Ruzious wrote:...McRae's been one of the Wiz' top players in the preseason...

...is both true & absolutely to the point! But, this...
Ruzious wrote:while Anderson played well enough to get cut.

...is not: Anderson played quite well.
Ruzious wrote:I mean... we can disagree on this, but for you to actually say my view is off the wall... lmao - just look at the preseason. And you know my thoughts were exactly the same before the preseason. Right?

Btw, you're quoting Dat as an authority? Ok.

Better yet, if McRae has a good season, I will eat crow -- publicly & happily! I hope I have to, ok? &, yes, you've been consistent on McRae. You're right a lot of the time, amigo; no one does better than that. So am I. In this case I hope you are the one who's right. Fair enough?

Of course... we could have kept them both, right? Waive Miles. Or some other way. It's not some built-in thing that they have to be judged in comparison w/ each other.

You don't think Dat posts with authority? He too is right much of the time.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#610 » by Ruzious » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:01 pm

smoothSeph wrote:You’d think Anderson was the savior of this franchise the way some posters are complaining about letting him go.

Neither him or Jemerrio Jones are pieces on a contending team.

Well, Milwaukee wasted no time in picking up Jones. If they get a couple of untimely injuries, who knows? 8-)
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#611 » by payitforward » Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:12 pm

No surprise to me that the Bucks nabbed Jones. He is a really useful player. He's so unusual; he changes the game when he's on the floor. It seems likely that he'll have a long, productive career in the league.

But, you are still right, smoothSeth, that there's way way too much energy going into the discussion of these guys. I think it's because we have a new guy running things, so every decision seems like something to focus on, in order to get a sense of how good he's going to be.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#612 » by I_Like_Dirt » Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:18 pm

payitforward wrote:No surprise to me that the Bucks nabbed Jones. He is a really useful player. He's so unusual; he changes the game when he's on the floor. It seems likely that he'll have a long, productive career in the league.

But, you are still right, smoothSeth, that there's way way too much energy going into the discussion of these guys. I think it's because we have a new guy running things, so every decision seems like something to focus on, in order to get a sense of how good he's going to be.


The Bucks signed him and immediately waived him. They don't want him on their team right now, either. He's going to the Wisconsin Herd. Who knows what factored into his decision. Maybe he wanted to be in a place with a lower cost of living if he was going to be managing on a G league salary? I wouldn't be surprised if he has a long productive career but he's got some work to do to get to that point.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#613 » by Ruzious » Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:59 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
payitforward wrote:No surprise to me that the Bucks nabbed Jones. He is a really useful player. He's so unusual; he changes the game when he's on the floor. It seems likely that he'll have a long, productive career in the league.

But, you are still right, smoothSeth, that there's way way too much energy going into the discussion of these guys. I think it's because we have a new guy running things, so every decision seems like something to focus on, in order to get a sense of how good he's going to be.


The Bucks signed him and immediately waived him. They don't want him on their team right now, either. He's going to the Wisconsin Herd. Who knows what factored into his decision. Maybe he wanted to be in a place with a lower cost of living if he was going to be managing on a G league salary? I wouldn't be surprised if he has a long productive career but he's got some work to do to get to that point.

Right, the Bucks cut him the same day they signed him - in an attempt to get him on their G League affiliate's roster via an Exhibit 10 contract. He'll likely be playing in Oshkosh for the Wisconsin Herd and set some rebounding records until he gets the call from Milwaukee. The Herd has an entire new coaching staff designed to develop players the way Budenholzer wants.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#614 » by I_Like_Dirt » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:17 pm

The Bucks can call him up but they'll have to give him a 2-way contract. They already have their 2-ways set now with Mason III and Reynolds. They could cut one of those guys and try to re-sign them to a non-2-way and then offer a 2-way to Jones, I suppose, but as things are now, any team is going to be able to sign Jones if he shows well in the G league.

But yes, having a d league team operating to develop players in the system the team wants them to play is smart and actually does give the Bucks an advantage because Jones is going to be learning to play their system specifically. Likewise, the Wizards are going to have that advantage with their own guys. The thing is, with a lot of these kids, they all have potential regardless of what small stat sample size with different roles people want to try to make. Satoransky was dumped on so hard between when he was drafted and he finally played with the Wizards and it turned out he was actually a great draft pick and excellent player. Figuring out which players are going to learn, adapt and take instruction the best isn't necessarily something that will show up in the stats and it isn't an indictment of the players that don't make it but to the credit of the players that do.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#615 » by Ruzious » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:35 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:The Bucks can call him up but they'll have to give him a 2-way contract. They already have their 2-ways set now with Mason III and Reynolds. They could cut one of those guys and try to re-sign them to a non-2-way and then offer a 2-way to Jones, I suppose, but as things are now, any team is going to be able to sign Jones if he shows well in the G league.

But yes, having a d league team operating to develop players in the system the team wants them to play is smart and actually does give the Bucks an advantage because Jones is going to be learning to play their system specifically. Likewise, the Wizards are going to have that advantage with their own guys. The thing is, with a lot of these kids, they all have potential regardless of what small stat sample size with different roles people want to try to make. Satoransky was dumped on so hard between when he was drafted and he finally played with the Wizards and it turned out he was actually a great draft pick and excellent player. Figuring out which players are going to learn, adapt and take instruction the best isn't necessarily something that will show up in the stats and it isn't an indictment of the players that don't make it but to the credit of the players that do.

Great post. :nod:
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#616 » by Illmatic12 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:16 pm

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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#617 » by nate33 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:55 pm

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I have mixed feelings.

Chiozza played consistently well in Summer League and preseason, so I'm happy we retained him on a 2-way. The guy looks like he'll have a career in the NBA, even if only as a 3rd string PG. And maybe he'll get better.

But I do wonder why in the world we are keeping so many point guards. I've got Ish, Thomas, Robinson and Chiozza, plus we have Beal and Brown who can play PG in a pinch (meaning it's less critical to have a 3rd string PG on the active roster). There's also Wall, and possibly Bonga down the road.

It sure would be nice to trade one of our PG prospects for someone else's prospect at SF or C.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#618 » by nate33 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:04 pm

According to Sportrac, we have a payroll of $128.0M with a luxtax of $132.6M. That's $4.6M of luxtax room, and we have a $5M TPE from the Sato trade and $3.4M left on the Jason Smith TPE. We could cut Mahinmi at any time to generate a roster spot.

We have the flexibility to make a minor move or two at some point this season.

The short term move would be to cut Mahinmi and try and sign the best guy available from the waiver wire. But it might be more prudent to wait for a while and see if that flexibility allows us to buy a pick or prospect off of someone at some point in the season. You never know if a team decides they want to get under the luxtax or cap threshold, or if two teams need a third team to absorb a salary to make some big trade work.

Another option would be to trade Mahinmi for a useful player with a more expensive expiring contract. Tristan Thompson is about the only contract that makes sense, but Cleveland has no compelling need to try and save $3M in salary.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#619 » by I_Like_Dirt » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:13 pm

nate33 wrote:Chiozza played consistently well in Summer League and preseason, so I'm happy we retained him on a 2-way. The guy looks like he'll have a career in the NBA, even if only as a 3rd string PG. And maybe he'll get better.

But I do wonder why in the world we are keeping so many point guards. I've got Ish, Thomas, Robinson and Chiozza, plus we have Beal and Brown who can play PG in a pinch (meaning it's less critical to have a 3rd string PG on the active roster). There's also Wall, and possibly Bonga down the road.

It sure would be nice to trade one of our PG prospects for someone else's prospect at SF or C.


It's not necessarily uncommon for a team to have 3 PGs on the roster. The 2-way contracts really could be anything and are more of a bonus at that point. In the Wizards case, they have 2 vet PGs on the roster, one of whom is out for the season, and another of whom hasn't played half a season for a couple seasons now and is currently injured. Their 3rd PG is a journeyman who is okay but not particularly good by NBA standards. That's a recipe for having a bunch of PGs on the roster simply because you have a few of them that aren't playing.

If you're going to count Beal and Bonga as potential PGs, then no position is really a need. At SF, for example, you have Brown, Rui, Bonga, Miles, Schofield and could even push Beal or McRae there if you want to be super flexible with the concept. That's just as loaded as the PG spot is even with the Wizards keeping a couple more PGs. At C, you have Bryant, Ian, Wagner and Pasecniks. And it wasn't like the Wizards were cutting any centers, either.
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Re: Wizards 2019 Offseason Thread - Part 2 

Post#620 » by Illmatic12 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:21 pm

nate33 wrote:
Illmatic12 wrote:
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I have mixed feelings.

Chiozza played consistently well in Summer League and preseason, so I'm happy we retained him on a 2-way. The guy looks like he'll have a career in the NBA, even if only as a 3rd string PG. And maybe he'll get better.

But I do wonder why in the world we are keeping so many point guards. I've got Ish, Thomas, Robinson and Chiozza, plus we have Beal and Brown who can play PG in a pinch (meaning it's less critical to have a 3rd string PG on the active roster). There's also Wall, and possibly Bonga down the road.

It sure would be nice to trade one of our PG prospects for someone else's prospect at SF or C.

I don't think these moves are about this season alone, they're about the longterm. It's imperative that we find a cheap longterm solution at backup PG for the remainder of Wall's contract - between Robinson and Chiozza, you hope one of them turns out to be the answer.

Isaiah Thomas could easily be on another team by the end of the season, so he's not in the longterm plans. If IT stays healthy and plays well, at the deadline you could try to flip him to a playoff team for a future 2nd rounder.

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