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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1 » by nate33 » Tue Jul 9, 2019 12:52 pm

Continued from here
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#2 » by mhd » Tue Jul 9, 2019 1:25 pm

Nate, quick question:

If the Wiz get a disabled exception for Wall, does that work ala a trade exception? Moreover, would any salary added potentially add to tax considerations, or is it absolved and not factored in?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#3 » by Eli Babak » Tue Jul 9, 2019 1:29 pm

mhd wrote:Nate, quick question:

If the Wiz get a disabled exception for Wall, does that work ala a trade exception? Moreover, would any salary added potentially add to tax considerations, or is it absolved and not factored in?


I'm not Nate but here's your answer:

If this exception is granted, the team can acquire one player via free agent signing, trade or waiver claim, to replace the disabled player:

- The team may sign a free agent for one season only, for 50% of the disabled player's salary or the amount of the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, whichever is less.

- The team may trade for a player in the last season of his contract only (including any option years)2, who is making no more than 50% plus $100,000 of the disabled player's salary, or the amount of the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception plus $100,000, whichever is less.

- The team may claim a player on waivers who is in the last season of his contract only (including any option years), who is making no more than 50% of the disabled player's salary, or the amount of the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, whichever is less.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25

---

If a player is signed with the exception, this amount will not count against the Wizards’ team salary if they are already above the cap before taking other player salaries and holds into account. (I think this is bs?)

https://www.bulletsforever.com/2019/7/2/20680222/2019-nba-free-agency-washington-wizards-john-wall-disabled-player-exception
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#4 » by queridiculo » Tue Jul 9, 2019 1:30 pm

DPE salary counts towards the tax/salary cap.

The DPE can be used to sign a free agent or it can be used like a TPE to absorb a player in a trade as long as that player is in the final year of his deal. Players can also be absorbed in the DPE if they have an option for the next year that gets declined as part of the transaction.

Just like the other TPEs it cannot be combined with other exceptions.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#5 » by nate33 » Tue Jul 9, 2019 2:57 pm

If they get the DPE, they might be able to reclassify the Bertans acquisition under the DPE rather than the Morris TPE. That would leave us with the full Morris TPE, which is more flexible because it can be used to acquire guys on longer contracts.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#6 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:16 am

Who’s left at this point who’s worth that amount?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#7 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:37 am

Ok, so with all these mega deals happening this offseason, I'm starting to wonder if we can get in on this Westbrook to Miami noise....

So this is kind of off the top of my head, but what about something along the lines of this....


OKC sends Westbrook to Miami.

Washington sends Wall to OKC + 2021 1st round pick.

Washington sends Beal to Miami.

Miami sends Winslow & Herro to Wasington.

Miami sends 2020 + 2022 1st round picks to OKC.


OKC swaps Westbrook for Wall, adds 3 more 1st rounders to their arsenal of picks (2020, 2021, 2022) in the process for their rebuild.

Miami deals 2 1st round picks, Herro, Winslow... Adds Westbrook and Beal to Butler to make a run in 19/20.

Washington deals Beal + 1st round pick(2021)... Move gets Wall off the books, adds young building blocks Winslow, Herro. Washington also has to take back salary in Dragic(1yr) Olynic(2), Waiters(2) for salaries to match.


End result for Washington...

Dragic, Thomas, Smith
Waiters, Herro, Miles
Winslow, TBJ, Schofield
Hachimura, Bertans, Wagner
Bryant, Olynick, Mahinmi

Most big salaries off the books 1-2 years, retain 2020 1st, possible eventual lineup TBJ, Herro, Winslow, Hachimura, Bryant to build on.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#8 » by gambitx777 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:14 am

We are never going to move wall or beal with assets going out, not right now, wall isn't going to be a negative asset when healthy. Mike **** connaley went for what is a pretty decent package. If we can't dump wall for a cap dump you just move on, you hold on to him and see how he does.

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#9 » by gambitx777 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:05 am

So! What about this
WIZ: Johnson ( he's on a 2 year 15 per contract) Tyler herro
Miami: Russ Westbrook
OKC: dragic, Ian, bonga(separate trade), and the rights to Sannon.
OKC probably says no, all they would have to do is take Johnson and they get herro but, okc may not wanna do that. This would give them a clean slate, and they might just want put of that money and we get paid to take a bad contract.

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#10 » by nate33 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:39 pm

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:Ok, so with all these mega deals happening this offseason, I'm starting to wonder if we can get in on this Westbrook to Miami noise....

So this is kind of off the top of my head, but what about something along the lines of this....


OKC sends Westbrook to Miami.

Washington sends Wall to OKC + 2021 1st round pick.

Washington sends Beal to Miami.

Miami sends Winslow & Herro to Wasington.

Miami sends 2020 + 2022 1st round picks to OKC.


OKC swaps Westbrook for Wall, adds 3 more 1st rounders to their arsenal of picks (2020, 2021, 2022) in the process for their rebuild.

Miami deals 2 1st round picks, Herro, Winslow... Adds Westbrook and Beal to Butler to make a run in 19/20.

Washington deals Beal + 1st round pick(2021)... Move gets Wall off the books, adds young building blocks Winslow, Herro. Washington also has to take back salary in Dragic(1yr) Olynic(2), Waiters(2) for salaries to match.


End result for Washington...

Dragic, Thomas, Smith
Waiters, Herro, Miles
Winslow, TBJ, Schofield
Hachimura, Bertans, Wagner
Bryant, Olynick, Mahinmi

Most big salaries off the books 1-2 years, retain 2020 1st, possible eventual lineup TBJ, Herro, Winslow, Hachimura, Bryant to build on.

That's horrible.

As I've said over and over again, it makes no sense to package Beal with Wall. If you are convinced that Beal will leave, then trade Beal by himself. You will get a much better package. The fact that Wall's salary would still be on the books is inconsequential. With Beal gone and everyone else on the roster being cheap, we'd still have plenty of cap room to buy picks and bad contracts. The only thing we wouldn't be able to do is sign max caliber free agents, which isn't a problem because no max caliber free agents would want to join a team without Beal and Wall.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#11 » by nate33 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:42 pm

gambitx777 wrote:So! What about this
WIZ: Johnson ( he's on a 2 year 15 per contract) Tyler herro
Miami: Russ Westbrook
OKC: dragic, Ian, bonga(separate trade), and the rights to Sannon.
OKC probably says no, all they would have to do is take Johnson and they get herro but, okc may not wanna do that. This would give them a clean slate, and they might just want put of that money and we get paid to take a bad contract.

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They cut Washington out of the deal. All we do is steal value. We're not getting Herro just for taking on an extra year of a bad contract. It's not like Johnson is unplayable. He's just modestly overpaid.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#12 » by prime1time » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:39 am

John Wall for Chris Paul who says no?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#13 » by gambitx777 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:50 am

Chris Paul is not a good locker room guy, he bassically worse than wall look at how many implosions he's been a part of. I'd say no thanks. Because at this point wall might recover value. Chris Paul won't, and Huston bassically had to give up extra picks cu they were moving the lesser asset in the deal.
prime1time wrote:John Wall for Chris Paul who says no?


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#14 » by prime1time » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:56 am

gambitx777 wrote:Chris Paul is not a good locker room guy, he bassically worse than wall look at how many implosions he's been a part of. I'd say no thanks. Because at this point wall might recover value. Chris Paul won't, and Huston bassically had to give up extra picks cu they were moving the lesser asset in the deal.
prime1time wrote:John Wall for Chris Paul who says no?


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Personally I do the trade. CP3 has one year less than Wall. At the same time, I wanted to trade Wall before he got injured. So I'm far as I'm concerned. There is no reason to wait around and see what he becomes after the injury. I know it will be worst than the best case scenario and that wasn't good enough.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#15 » by doclinkin » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:14 am

prime1time wrote:John Wall for Chris Paul who says no?


Nay. I want to see John motivated and with repaired wheels. He was playing in pain. We have seen him play destructive defense in the past then tapered off to a standstill. That's not laziness, that is injury. He was playing hurt. Healthy John even with a rehabbed achilles I think will be worth watching. CP3 on the tail end of his career I think will be an unpretty sight, even on a team where he wants to be. He doesn't want to be here. John does. That to me makes all the difference between the two. John I think will be a motivator for our young guys. CP3 would be a destructive element.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#16 » by gambitx777 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:02 am

I'd let it be Brad's call imo. I'd go to him and say this deals on the table it gets us out of walls contact sooner what do you want. Do you wanna give John another chance or would you rather have one less year of chris Paul? Here are the pros here are the cons. What do you want.
prime1time wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:Chris Paul is not a good locker room guy, he bassically worse than wall look at how many implosions he's been a part of. I'd say no thanks. Because at this point wall might recover value. Chris Paul won't, and Huston bassically had to give up extra picks cu they were moving the lesser asset in the deal.
prime1time wrote:John Wall for Chris Paul who says no?


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Personally I do the trade. CP3 has one year less than Wall. At the same time, I wanted to trade Wall before he got injured. So I'm far as I'm concerned. There is no reason to wait around and see what he becomes after the injury. I know it will be worst than the best case scenario and that wasn't good enough.


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#17 » by closg00 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:37 am

I like this YouTuber, but his Wall/Beal proposal is wack
Tank 19/20, trade Brad, Top-5 pick in 2020.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#18 » by FAH1223 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:45 pm

Sam Presti loves Beal, tried to trade for him in 2012 when they wouldn't pay Harden the max of 5 years $80M or 4 years $60M at the time.

OKC has 2 1st round picks every year going forward now...

They also have Gilgeous-Alexander...

The other partner I'd like is Nuggets.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#19 » by nate33 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:57 pm

prime1time wrote:John Wall for Chris Paul who says no?

The way I evaluated the idea is this:

If we made the Chris Paul trade, my next step would be to look around for a way of trading Chris Paul for anything that would result in money savings. I looked around and could fine literally nothing. I don't see any way whatsoever to unload any portion of Paul's salary. And if he can't be unloaded now, he certainly can't be unloaded in the future. If nobody wants Chris Paul at age 34, they definitely don't want him at 35 or 36.

I did the same exercise with Wall, and did not reach the same conclusion. If Wall comes back and becomes 90% of his former self, I could definitely see options to move him and get back smaller contracts. A team might trade cap room and a $20M a year dead weight contract for a healthy John Wall and his $41M contract.

Ultimately, I concluded that Wall has more trade value than Paul, or rather, he has the potential to have more trade value if we are patient. When you add to that the reality that Wall would be a far better influence on a rebuilding roster than Paul, then I'd definitely prefer to keep Wall.

The only argument to make the trade is if you really want to push for wins THIS season. And it's already too late for that. All of our offseason trades and transactions were clearly based on a tank for 1 year strategy.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#20 » by Rafael122 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:21 pm

nate33 wrote:
prime1time wrote:John Wall for Chris Paul who says no?

The way I evaluated the idea is this:

If we made the Chris Paul trade, my next step would be to look around for a way of trading Chris Paul for anything that would result in money savings. I looked around and could fine literally nothing. I don't see any way whatsoever to unload any portion of Paul's salary. And if he can't be unloaded now, he certainly can't be unloaded in the future. If nobody wants Chris Paul at age 34, they definitely don't want him at 35 or 36.

I did the same exercise with Wall, and did not reach the same conclusion. If Wall comes back and becomes 90% of his former self, I could definitely see options to move him and get back smaller contracts. A team might trade cap room and a $20M a year dead weight contract for a healthy John Wall and his $41M contract.

Ultimately, I concluded that Wall has more trade value than Paul, or rather, he has the potential to have more trade value if we are patient. When you add to that the reality that Wall would be a far better influence on a rebuilding roster than Paul, then I'd definitely prefer to keep Wall.

The only argument to make the trade is if you really want to push for wins THIS season. And it's already too late for that. All of our offseason trades and transactions were clearly based on a tank for 1 year strategy.


The time to trade Wall IMO, is in Summer of 2021. There's another set of free agents, and again, someone will strike out (looking at the Knicks). They could trade Wall into NY's cap space, and it's not like a Paul situation where he'd be 35/36 years old, he'd be 31 entering the Summer of '21. Like you said, if he's 90% back, or even 80%, what's the risk on NY's side? It's max 2 years, maybe 1 if Wall is looking to cash in one more contract.
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