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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#101 » by MagicBagley18 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:33 pm

DCZards wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:If beal doesn’t sign the extension and you take it into next summer it would def limit the return you guys get IMO for a few reasons.

I don't disagree that there's a very good chance that the Zards will get less in return for Beal if they wait until after the upcoming season to trade him. But it will only be slightly less, imo, and I think that's a risk the Zards should be willing to take given that there is still a chance that BB resigns.

MagicBagley18 wrote:2) if he plays out the year and god forbid has a horrible injury like a ruptured Achilles or an ACL tear that will hurt his market also. Obviously they’ll still get packages but now you are trading for an injured player on the last year of his contract where he will miss a lot of the season. Just risky as hell and will diminish returns.

Beal could suffer a bad injury working out at the Cap One City this afternoon. S**t happens. So the last thing the Zards should do is base their decision on whether or not to trade Beal on something as unpredictable as that.


Listen I hope he does re-sign. Be great for you guys and be a nice switch of pace to see some loyalty. He’s a great player and with all the bad injury luck you guys deserve to have him out there for you a long time and with rui.

Of course you don’t base your decision off if he could be injured...I’m going off the premise that if he turns down the extension like was mentioned you can wait until next summer. If he turns down the extension his decision is basically made up that worst case within 24 months his wizard career is over.

If it is inevitable that he’s going to be traded, why take the risk that injury happens? The moment that extension isn’t signed (if that happens) he’s your most important asset who now becomes tradeable.

If he declines the extension a countdown begins and every month closer to his free agency your leverage drops. The pelicans were able to get a haul for an AD rental because he wanted to be a laker and most importantly the lakers felt the pressure of striking out in free agency and not being able to put another star next to bron in his final years.

If he doesn’t sign the extension his mind is pretty much Made up or heavily leaned in the direction of leaving in free agency and he doesn’t feel comfortable committing longer term. Nothing that will happen in a season is going to change his opinion of the organization and it’s direction if 7 years and a new 3 year 111 million dollar contract didn’t.

And we agree to disagree (I’m sure you dgaf) the package for a 1 year rental will be less because there will be less teams willing to trade for him because he won’t be interested in them long term. You can def get deals for him but they’ll be worse because there’s less teams in the running and then you’ll have to deal with all the bs leaks of where he will or won’t play long term.

Before any of these teams try to get involved bartelstein (his agent but I’m sure u know )will kill teams before they even make an offer and you’ll be negotiating with 4 teams instead of 10.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#102 » by celticgreenie » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:49 pm

MagicBagley18 wrote:
DCZards wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:If beal doesn’t sign the extension and you take it into next summer it would def limit the return you guys get IMO for a few reasons.

I don't disagree that there's a very good chance that the Zards will get less in return for Beal if they wait until after the upcoming season to trade him. But it will only be slightly less, imo, and I think that's a risk the Zards should be willing to take given that there is still a chance that BB resigns.

MagicBagley18 wrote:2) if he plays out the year and god forbid has a horrible injury like a ruptured Achilles or an ACL tear that will hurt his market also. Obviously they’ll still get packages but now you are trading for an injured player on the last year of his contract where he will miss a lot of the season. Just risky as hell and will diminish returns.

Beal could suffer a bad injury working out at the Cap One City this afternoon. S**t happens. So the last thing the Zards should do is base their decision on whether or not to trade Beal on something as unpredictable as that.


Listen I hope he does re-sign. Be great for you guys and be a nice switch of pace to see some loyalty. He’s a great player and with all the bad injury luck you guys deserve to have him out there for you a long time and with rui.

Of course you don’t base your decision off if he could be injured...I’m going off the premise that if he turns down the extension like was mentioned you can wait until next summer. If he turns down the extension his decision is basically made up that worst case within 24 months his wizard career is over.

If it is inevitable that he’s going to be traded, why take the risk that injury happens? The moment that extension isn’t signed (if that happens) he’s your most important asset who know becomes tradeable.

If he declines the extension a countdown begins and every month closer to his free agency your leverage drops. The pelicans were able to get a haul for an AD rental because he wanted to be a laker and most importantly the lakers felt the pressure of striking out in free agency and not being able to put another star next to bron in his final years.

If he doesn’t sign the extension his mind is pretty much Made up or heavily leaned in the direction of leaving in free agency and he doesn’t feel comfortable committing longer term. Nothing that will happen in a season is going to change his opinion of the organization and it’s direction if 7 years and 111 million didn’t.

And we agree to disagree (I’m sure you dgaf) the package for a 1 year rental will be less because there will be less teams willing to trade for him because he won’t be interested in them long term. You can def get deals for him but they’ll be worse because there’s less teams in the running and then you’ll have to deal with all the bs leaks of where he will or won’t play long term.

Before any of these teams try to get involved bartelstein (his agent but I’m sure u know )will kill teams before they even make an offer and you’ll be negotiating with 4 teams instead of 10.


Interestingly enough, John Wall suffered an unpredictable Achilles injury while recovering from his previous surgery so stuff happens. Also even with the new lottery system, it would benefit the Wizards to trade Beal to do a harder tank. Lastly, the haul for the AD trade and the last PG13 trade may not reflect the Beal future trade as the Lakers and Clippers were very desperate. The teams bidding for Beal will be less desperate even with increased parity in the league because AD and PG13 are two-way players while Beal is not.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#103 » by queridiculo » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:29 pm

Here's a trade I had in mind last year before things turned sour with Wall's achilles injury, Wall for Griffin.

Seems like the Pistons may be shopping him and given Wall's injury there's a gulf in value right now, but I am curious with where this franchise is at right now would there be any desire to make that swap?

https://clutchpoints.com/pistons-news-blake-griffin-liked-tweet-rumor-about-detroit-discussing-trades-with-at-least-3-teams/
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#104 » by LyricalRico » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:13 pm

queridiculo wrote:Here's a trade I had in mind last year before things turned sour with Wall's achilles injury, Wall for Griffin.

Seems like the Pistons may be shopping him and given Wall's injury there's a gulf in value right now, but I am curious with where this franchise is at right now would there be any desire to make that swap?

https://clutchpoints.com/pistons-news-blake-griffin-liked-tweet-rumor-about-detroit-discussing-trades-with-at-least-3-teams/


Eff it, let's combine this with the CP3 idea! Cap be darned! :rock:

Wizards trade: Wall, Mahinmi, Miles, Wagner
Wizards receive: Paul, Griffin

Pistons trade: Griffin
Pistons receive: Gallo, Mahinmi,Wagner

Thunder trade: Paul, Gallo
Thunder receive: Wall, Miles

TRADE ID 7230629 (can happen late September)

Bryant/FA
Griffin/Hachimura
Bertans/Brown
Beal/IT
Paul/Ish

Fourth seed, snitches! :onfire:
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#105 » by queridiculo » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:31 pm

Aside from Washington not sending enough value and chances of those guys spending an extended amount of time on the floor together healthy, I'd love to see that team just for **** and giggles.

The upside of that team as assembled would be that you could probably spell Paul and Griffin quite a bit to manage their minutes.

A tall lineup of:

Brown/Beal/Hachimura/Griffin/Bryant might be pretty entertaining, damn spacing all to hell.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#106 » by LyricalRico » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:36 pm

queridiculo wrote:Aside from Washington not sending enough value and chances of those guys spending an extended amount of time on the floor together healthy, I'd love to see that team just for **** and giggles.

The upside of that team as assembled would be that you could probably spell Paul and Griffin quite a bit to manage their minutes.

A tall lineup of:

Brown/Beal/Hachimura/Griffin/Bryant might be pretty entertaining, damn spacing all to hell.


Yeah, I thought about the value deficit but wasn't sure how to fix it. Detroit does get to clear their cap, so maybe they'd be happy with a heavily protected first. For OKC, is the chance of Wall returning to something resembling his old self enough for them?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#107 » by nate33 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:00 pm

I was toying with an idea that Miami trades for both Chris Paul and Blake Griffin. It goes something like this:

Miami/OKC trade:
MIA out: Dragic + Olynyk + Leonard for Paul + Muscala + Noel
OKC out: Paul + Muscala + Noel (or Nader if OKC prefers)
The salaries match almost exactly. OKC is adding about $0.5M in salary. OKC dumps Chris Paul for short contracts. Dragic and Olynyk are actually pretty useful players.

Miami/Detroit trade:
MIA out: Johnson + Winslow + Waiters + future pick (2025, I think)
DET out: Griffin + Galloway
The salaries match almost exactly. Detroit resets by turning Griffin into Winslow and Waiters.


Miami contends in the East with the following lineup:
PG Paul
SG Herro/Galloway
SF Butler
PF Griffin/Muscala
C Adebayo/Noel
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#108 » by LyricalRico » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:03 am

nate33 wrote:I was toying with an idea that Miami trades for both Chris Paul and Blake Griffin. It goes something like this:

Miami/OKC trade:
MIA out: Dragic + Olynyk + Leonard for Paul + Muscala + Noel
OKC out: Paul + Muscala + Noel (or Nader if OKC prefers)
The salaries match almost exactly. OKC is adding about $0.5M in salary. OKC dumps Chris Paul for short contracts. Dragic and Olynyk are actually pretty useful players.

Miami/Detroit trade:
MIA out: Johnson + Winslow + Waiters + future pick (2025, I think)
DET out: Griffin + Galloway
The salaries match almost exactly. Detroit resets by turning Griffin into Winslow and Waiters.


Miami contends in the East with the following lineup:
PG Paul
SG Herro/Galloway
SF Butler
PF Griffin/Muscala
C Adebayo/Noel


Hey, you forgot to include the Wizards! :lol: Seriously tho that does seem to work for everyone, although Miami would be scary thin after this. Also takes away a possible future destination for Wall, but that's not their problem lol.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#109 » by gambitx777 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:22 am

So I still hold that if beal.wants to stay , we keep him 100% no questions asked. But if he doesn't.
The heat take
Beal and wall
The wiz get
Dragic, johnson ( Johnson might, waive his player option, if we negotiate the trade right), Winslow, Waiters, bam, herro and a 2026 first.
I'd consider it. That might be the best off that the heat might be able to be crazy enough to offer, is it 3-4 firsts and pick swaps no. But it is a wild card first along time from now, those can always be value, 2 blue Chip talents in bam and herro. A good young player in Winslow, who is on a decent contract and some good tradable vets.

Could some one else do better. Maybe! But dumping wall is interesting if we still get young talent and assets out of the deal.

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#110 » by pcbothwel » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:22 pm

Can we please hold off on all Beal trades until we know what we have in Wall, Rui, and Brown Jr.
We literally have an All-NBA caliber lead guard at 25 and top 10-12 22 y/o Center.
Those other 3 are the potential 1, 3, and 4.

If Rui becomes some weird Melo/Kahwi/Jamison hybrid he becomes a legit 2B alongside a potential Wall. Brown appears to be a more aggressive, less efficient, better defensive version of Sato.

We are going to know ALOT about this team come January. Relax.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#111 » by Ruzious » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:50 pm

gambitx777 wrote:So I still hold that if beal.wants to stay , we keep him 100% no questions asked. But if he doesn't.
The heat take
Beal and wall
The wiz get
Dragic, johnson ( Johnson might, waive his player option, if we negotiate the trade right), Winslow, Waiters, bam, herro and a 2026 first.
I'd consider it. That might be the best off that the heat might be able to be crazy enough to offer, is it 3-4 firsts and pick swaps no. But it is a wild card first along time from now, those can always be value, 2 blue Chip talents in bam and herro. A good young player in Winslow, who is on a decent contract and some good tradable vets.

Could some one else do better. Maybe! But dumping wall is interesting if we still get young talent and assets out of the deal.

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I would be against any trade where we're lowering the asking price for Beal so the other team takes Wall. As a fan, lowering our talent base isn't what I want to see.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#112 » by nate33 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:02 pm

gambitx777 wrote:Could some one else do better. Maybe! But dumping wall is interesting if we still get young talent and assets out of the deal.


Yes. And keeping Wall while getting more assets out of a Beal trade is much MORE interesting.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#113 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:27 pm

nate33 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:Could some one else do better. Maybe! But dumping wall is interesting if we still get young talent and assets out of the deal.


Yes. And keeping Wall while getting more assets out of a Beal trade is much MORE interesting.


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#114 » by gambitx777 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:52 pm

So you say no to what I had the heat offering ?
nate33 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:Could some one else do better. Maybe! But dumping wall is interesting if we still get young talent and assets out of the deal.


Yes. And keeping Wall while getting more assets out of a Beal trade is much MORE interesting.


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#115 » by nate33 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:00 pm

gambitx777 wrote:So you say no to what I had the heat offering ?
nate33 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:Could some one else do better. Maybe! But dumping wall is interesting if we still get young talent and assets out of the deal.


Yes. And keeping Wall while getting more assets out of a Beal trade is much MORE interesting.


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I'd take that offer, but there's no way Miami would offer it. They wouldn't absorb Wall AND give up Bam, Herro and the 2026 1st. The reality is, if they take on Wall, they'd probably only give up one of Bam/Herro/1st.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#116 » by gambitx777 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:49 pm

I agree but who thought the clippers would give up so much value for PG. You think taking walls contract if worth 2 firsts. They don't have 2 extra picks and pick swaps so the young assets replace that so if still ends up being about even, with what they gave for pg maybe take the pick out and give us a second or two I stead of a first. But
nate33 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:So you say no to what I had the heat offering ?
nate33 wrote:
Yes. And keeping Wall while getting more assets out of a Beal trade is much MORE interesting.


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I'd take that offer, but there's no way Miami would offer it. They wouldn't absorb Wall AND give up Bam, Herro and the 2026 1st. The reality is, if they take on Wall, they'd probably only give up one of Bam/Herro/1st.


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#117 » by The Consiglieri » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:43 pm

closg00 wrote:
The Miami Heat are willing to take on the remainder of Washington Wizards point guard John Wall's contract provided they acquire teammate Bradley Beal in a package deal, according to the Miami Herald's Barry Jackson.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2845383-heat-trade-rumors-miami-could-absorb-john-wall-contract-to-acquire-bradley-beal


Worst idea ever.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#118 » by The Consiglieri » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:45 pm

payitforward wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I love carry grant ! To this day I still catch the occasional Turner classics after noon marathon with my mom on Sunday afternoons.
payitforward wrote:"moot" not "mute" -- but otherwise right on.

As to Grace Kelly, when you are done googling, watch To Catch A Thief.

To understand what a great actor Cary Grant was, watch Only Angels Have Wings back to back with Bringing Up Baby.


Charade. North by Northwest & the classic comedy His Girl Friday.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#119 » by The Consiglieri » Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:27 pm

MagicBagley18 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
1st and foremost I’m not a troll or here to start **** at all. Just an nba fan bored at work trying to kill time and I know the Celtics have no real shot at beal so I’m just speaking as a fan of the league and I think it would be cool and different if beal shows loyalty to you guys but I have to disagree.

If beal doesn’t sign the extension and you take it into next summer it would def limit the return you guys get IMO for a few reasons.

1) it gives beal and his agent the chance to kill any trade by saying to that team “he’s not interested signing long term” essentially making him a rental to certain teams / markets . While beal is a good dude and he may not do it as vindictively or publicly as other stars he will use his leverage.

After seeing what happened with kawhi the allure of rentals has to be scary ; Toronto treated this guy like gold, hired his own doctors, let him pick when he played, gave his uncle a voice in the organization and btw won a championship and he still left.

Beal is not the diva that kawhi is but he will want a say where he goes next and so will his agent. Several teams will be eliminated before negotiations even start for him.

PG resigned in okc and then demanded a trade right to where he wanted to be all along. LA. Rentals come with tremendous risk and usually a less of a return to the team sending out the star.


2) if he plays out the year and god forbid has a horrible injury like a ruptured Achilles or an ACL tear that will hurt his market also. Obviously they’ll still get packages but now you are trading for an injured player on the last year of his contract where he will miss a lot of the season. Just risky as hell and will diminish returns.

Like I said, I hope he stays with you guys. Y’all are some loyal fans and he’s a good player so hopefully this is a moot point in 10 days but if he doesn’t sign long term IMO he needs to be traded by the deadline for the sake of the wizards


This is fair and I strongly disagree with many of my fellow Wiz fans that suggest his value doesn't dip... especially since its 2 yrs under contract vs one. With 2 years, you'd see teams that might not have a shot at him in free agency take a gamble and see if they can sell him on staying. With one year and an eye towards FA is get dicey for a team to take such a risk.

Right now, if Beal was available... you'd might see a bidding war. And it would not be a shock to me to see them get at least 2/3rds of an AD/PG deal however by next year when it may become clear who his legit suitors are, we may get stuck taking a Tobias Harris type package.

Sadly I think either that happens or we let him walk. We are still a ****. Grunfeld may be gone but our owner in a more active role is
just as disastrous.


That’s exactly right. I agree with everything you said. 2 years teams will go for him and try to convince him, even at the deadline some teams will. Next summer on the last remaining year of his contract? you’ll get half of the return you guys want and deserve.


It's a different sport, but there's a reason the Yanks got two of Cleveland's top four prospects in a deal for a freaking reliever back in the summer of '16. It was because Miller wasn't a three month rental, they were getting 3 months, plus 2017 and 2018. As such they paid a higher premium. The only possible argument that makes sense in terms of getting more in the summer of '20 or equal value, is teams having more flexibility w/players coming off the books AND the 2020 Free Agent class being dog manure. W/him the best asset in the 2020 offseason, maybe that happens, but that's a risky bet compared to dealing him to a team that gets 2 full years+ and pays accordingly. At this point it seems clear to me he won't be moved until the winter when rock bottom has arrived if then, but he should be much sooner if at all possible.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#120 » by payitforward » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:51 am

The Consiglieri wrote:
payitforward wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I love carry grant ! To this day I still catch the occasional Turner classics after noon marathon with my mom on Sunday afternoons.

To understand what a great actor Cary Grant was, watch Only Angels Have Wings back to back with Bringing Up Baby.

Charade. North by Northwest & the classic comedy His Girl Friday.

& many many more. One of my favorites on the dramatic side of his skills is Only Angels Have Wings. On the comic side His Girl Friday.
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