Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

[dangermouse]

I like Tyler Herro. Before the draft everyone on the damn internet was saying "JJ Redick part 2" which isnt that bad of a comparison in honesty. But its just because hes white, shoots and tries on defense. He attacks the rim and has a much better handle and creativity than JJ.

But I dont think Heat have enough picks the next few years do they? I'd want Herro + multiple firsts as the foundation of the trade.

[gambitx777]

Like I said the only viable offer they could make is bam, Winslow and herro as the main package. Which they probably wouldn't do anyway and even if they would we would probably want them to take wall in that regard. Because with out taking wall they don't have enough picks and they won't want to give up so many young guys of they take wall. Which many of us don't wanna go down that road anyway

I like Tyler Herro. Before the draft everyone on the damn internet was saying "JJ Redick part 2" which isnt that bad of a comparison in honesty. But its just because hes white, shoots and tries on defense. He attacks the rim and has a much better handle and creativity than JJ.

But I dont think Heat have enough picks the next few years do they? I'd want Herro + multiple firsts as the foundation of the trade.

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[Ruzious]

Like I said the only viable offer they could make is bam, Winslow and herro as the main package. Which they probably wouldn't do anyway and even if they would we would probably want them to take wall in that regard. Because with out taking wall they don't have enough picks and they won't want to give up so many young guys of they take wall. Which many of us don't wanna go down that road anyway

I like Tyler Herro. Before the draft everyone on the damn internet was saying "JJ Redick part 2" which isnt that bad of a comparison in honesty. But its just because hes white, shoots and tries on defense. He attacks the rim and has a much better handle and creativity than JJ.

But I dont think Heat have enough picks the next few years do they? I'd want Herro + multiple firsts as the foundation of the trade.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Does Winslow have much trade value? He's been in the NBA 4 seasons and has improved quite a bit, but he's still got relatively low production and efficiency numbers. But he does have versatility - having played a lof of PG last season, defends well, helps on the boards, and has vastly improved his 3 point shooting. His stats last season (best of his career) included a PER of 12.8 and TS% of .513. Trey Burke (laughed out of here a few years ago) had 17.9 and .574 last season.

[Dat2U]

Like I said the only viable offer they could make is bam, Winslow and herro as the main package. Which they probably wouldn't do anyway and even if they would we would probably want them to take wall in that regard. Because with out taking wall they don't have enough picks and they won't want to give up so many young guys of they take wall. Which many of us don't wanna go down that road anyway

I like Tyler Herro. Before the draft everyone on the damn internet was saying "JJ Redick part 2" which isnt that bad of a comparison in honesty. But its just because hes white, shoots and tries on defense. He attacks the rim and has a much better handle and creativity than JJ.

But I dont think Heat have enough picks the next few years do they? I'd want Herro + multiple firsts as the foundation of the trade.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Does Winslow have much trade value? He's been in the NBA 4 seasons and has improved quite a bit, but he's still got relatively low production and efficiency numbers. But he does have versatility - having played a lof of PG last season, defends well, helps on the boards, and has vastly improved his 3 point shooting. His stats last season (best of his career) included a PER of 12.8 and TS% of .513. Trey Burke (laughed out of here a few years ago) had 17.9 and .574 last season.

Winslow made a jump last year. I like him. He's a jack of all trades and can even function as on the ball playmaker. His real value is defensively where he can defend multiple positions. He's a guy you can win with.

Bam is rock solid although with Bryant there's some duplication. Bam has good value though and can be rerouted.

Herro, Winslow, Bam are a nice young threesome to jumpstart a rebuild.

The picks are the biggest issue. I'd consider some of their far out picks with no protections. 2026 & 2028 unprotected firsts?

G 2020 pick (LaMelo or Cole Anthony); Justin Robinson
G Tyler Herro
F Justise Winslow; Troy Brown Jr.; Issac Bonga
F Rui Hachimura; Admiral Schofield
C Thomas Bryant; Bam Adebayo

[Ruzious]

Like I said the only viable offer they could make is bam, Winslow and herro as the main package. Which they probably wouldn't do anyway and even if they would we would probably want them to take wall in that regard. Because with out taking wall they don't have enough picks and they won't want to give up so many young guys of they take wall. Which many of us don't wanna go down that road anyway

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Does Winslow have much trade value? He's been in the NBA 4 seasons and has improved quite a bit, but he's still got relatively low production and efficiency numbers. But he does have versatility - having played a lof of PG last season, defends well, helps on the boards, and has vastly improved his 3 point shooting. His stats last season (best of his career) included a PER of 12.8 and TS% of .513. Trey Burke (laughed out of here a few years ago) had 17.9 and .574 last season.

Winslow made a jump last year. I like him. He's a jack of all trades and can even function as on the ball playmaker. His real value is defensively where he can defend multiple positions. He's a guy you can win with.

Bam is rock solid although with Bryant there's some duplication. Bam has good value though and can be rerouted.

Herro, Winslow, Bam are a nice young threesome to jumpstart a rebuild.

The picks are the biggest issue. I'd consider some of their far out picks with no protections. 2026 & 2028 unprotected firsts?

G 2020 pick (LaMelo or Cole Anthony); Justin Robinson
G Tyler Herro
F Justise Winslow; Troy Brown Jr.; Issac Bonga
F Rui Hachimura; Admiral Schofield
C Thomas Bryant; Bam Adebayo

Winslow did play the point against the Wiz last season. I see him as a good defender but not a difference-maker there, because he doesn't have good length. Good thing is - we can wait till mid-season or even later to see how Herro develops with Winslow and Bam.

[nate33]

Like I said the only viable offer they could make is bam, Winslow and herro as the main package. Which they probably wouldn't do anyway and even if they would we would probably want them to take wall in that regard. Because with out taking wall they don't have enough picks and they won't want to give up so many young guys of they take wall. Which many of us don't wanna go down that road anyway

I like Tyler Herro. Before the draft everyone on the damn internet was saying "JJ Redick part 2" which isnt that bad of a comparison in honesty. But its just because hes white, shoots and tries on defense. He attacks the rim and has a much better handle and creativity than JJ.

But I dont think Heat have enough picks the next few years do they? I'd want Herro + multiple firsts as the foundation of the trade.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Does Winslow have much trade value? He's been in the NBA 4 seasons and has improved quite a bit, but he's still got relatively low production and efficiency numbers. But he does have versatility - having played a lof of PG last season, defends well, helps on the boards, and has vastly improved his 3 point shooting. His stats last season (best of his career) included a PER of 12.8 and TS% of .513. Trey Burke (laughed out of here a few years ago) had 17.9 and .574 last season.

Winslow as a 22-year-old 4-year vet is barely better than Troy Brown Jr. as a 19-year-old rookie. Winslow shot better from 3 but Brown has WAY less turnovers despite a comparable assist rate.

[payitforward]

I don't think Winslow made a jump last year, dat. Yes, he scored a few more points per 40 minutes, but his TS% improved only marginally, & his rebounding dropped while his turnovers went up. I thought he'd be a good player in the league, but I was wrong. I think he's pretty close to a bust. Certainly I don't view him as adding much value in a trade.

Bam is good, to be sure. & I like Herro too. But... I don't see the formula here.

[Dat2U]

I don't think Winslow made a jump last year, dat. Yes, he scored a few more points per 40 minutes, but his TS% improved only marginally, & his rebounding dropped while his turnovers went up. I thought he'd be a good player in the league, but I was wrong. I think he's pretty close to a bust. Certainly I don't view him as adding much value in a trade.

Bam is good, to be sure. & I like Herro too. But... I don't see the formula here.

I thought Winslow looked good when he swung to the PG role when Dragic was out. He certainly made a huge jump in terms of defensive impact. I was down on him as well before last season but I saw some encouraging signs that he's finding his niche. RPM loves him - mostly on D. He can guard 4 positions at a high level. Has him ranked 11th among SFs. Shot .375 on 4 attempts a game from 3. Not finished developing yet but I do see him as someone on the rise.

And he'll be 23 next season.

[nate33]

I don't think Winslow made a jump last year, dat. Yes, he scored a few more points per 40 minutes, but his TS% improved only marginally, & his rebounding dropped while his turnovers went up. I thought he'd be a good player in the league, but I was wrong. I think he's pretty close to a bust. Certainly I don't view him as adding much value in a trade.

Bam is good, to be sure. & I like Herro too. But... I don't see the formula here.

I thought Winslow looked good when he swung to the PG role when Dragic was out. He certainly made a huge jump in terms of defensive impact. I was down on him as well before last season but I saw some encouraging signs that he's finding his niche. RPM loves him - mostly on D. He can guard 4 positions at a high level. Has him ranked 11th among SFs. Shot .375 on 4 attempts a game from 3. Not finished developing yet but I do see him as someone on the rise.

And he'll be 23 next season.

The best thing about Winslow is that he's locked into a 3-year, $39M deal. There will be no Otto Porter scenario with him.

[Dat2U]

Like I said the only viable offer they could make is bam, Winslow and herro as the main package. Which they probably wouldn't do anyway and even if they would we would probably want them to take wall in that regard. Because with out taking wall they don't have enough picks and they won't want to give up so many young guys of they take wall. Which many of us don't wanna go down that road anyway

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Does Winslow have much trade value? He's been in the NBA 4 seasons and has improved quite a bit, but he's still got relatively low production and efficiency numbers. But he does have versatility - having played a lof of PG last season, defends well, helps on the boards, and has vastly improved his 3 point shooting. His stats last season (best of his career) included a PER of 12.8 and TS% of .513. Trey Burke (laughed out of here a few years ago) had 17.9 and .574 last season.

Winslow as a 22-year-old 4-year vet is barely better than Troy Brown Jr. as a 19-year-old rookie. Winslow shot better from 3 but Brown has WAY less turnovers despite a comparable assist rate.

I wouldn't use TBJ's limited minutes against him but I wouldn't use it to prove anything either.

Code: Select all

                        Min  ORPM   DRPM   RPM
11   Justise Winslow   29.7  0.15   1.90    2.05
69   Troy Brown Jr.    14.0  -1.56  -0.74   -2.30

[gambitx777]

Yeah Winslow is one of those young value contracts that you take a flyer on because he's locked up and you won't be worried about over paying and he Could still out preform that money

I don't think Winslow made a jump last year, dat. Yes, he scored a few more points per 40 minutes, but his TS% improved only marginally, & his rebounding dropped while his turnovers went up. I thought he'd be a good player in the league, but I was wrong. I think he's pretty close to a bust. Certainly I don't view him as adding much value in a trade.

Bam is good, to be sure. & I like Herro too. But... I don't see the formula here.

I thought Winslow looked good when he swung to the PG role when Dragic was out. He certainly made a huge jump in terms of defensive impact. I was down on him as well before last season but I saw some encouraging signs that he's finding his niche. RPM loves him - mostly on D. He can guard 4 positions at a high level. Has him ranked 11th among SFs. Shot .375 on 4 attempts a game from 3. Not finished developing yet but I do see him as someone on the rise.

And he'll be 23 next season.

The best thing about Winslow is that he's locked into a 3-year, $39M deal. There will be no Otto Porter scenario with him.

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[Dat2U]

So NO could likely put together the beat package for Beal.

I'm cool on Ingram due to performance, health & contract status. Also I believe Griffin is really high on him, I'd prefer extracting additional assets while they keep Ingram.

The package I've come up with so far:
G Lonzo Ball
G Nickeil Alexander-Walker
C Jaxson Hayes
G E'Twaun Moore
2021 1st - will convert to unprotected in 2022 if it's not top 7.
2024 or 2025 1st - NO has right to take LA's pick in 2024 or defer to 2025.

[pcbothwel]

So NO could likely put together the beat package for Beal.

I'm cool on Ingram due to performance, health & contract status. Also I believe Griffin is really high on him, I'd prefer extracting additional assets while they keep Ingram.

The package I've come up with so far:
G Lonzo Ball
G Nickeil Alexander-Walker
C Jaxson Hayes
G E'Twaun Moore
2021 1st - will convert to unprotected in 2022 if it's not top 7.
2024 or 2025 1st - NO has right to take LA's pick in 2024 or defer to 2025.

Another team that is a better fit next summer... But NOP is interesting. Dont care about Hayes because we have Bryant and i much prefer a top 15 pick in 2021 or 2022.

So I would want:
Ball (maybe sent to 3rd team)
NAW
2022 LAL 1st (Protected 8-30 in 2021, so more than likely 2022 which is unprotected)
2024/25 LAL pick you mentioned above
And ALL of our 2nds back ('20, '21, '23)

That gives us 3 1st (Re-routing Ball), 2 of which are very interesting. 3 middle/high 2nds
Plus we get a nice 20M+ TPE to take on salary for another pick.

Again...next summer

[Ruzious]

So NO could likely put together the beat package for Beal.

I'm cool on Ingram due to performance, health & contract status. Also I believe Griffin is really high on him, I'd prefer extracting additional assets while they keep Ingram.

The package I've come up with so far:
G Lonzo Ball
G Nickeil Alexander-Walker
C Jaxson Hayes
G E'Twaun Moore
2021 1st - will convert to unprotected in 2022 if it's not top 7.
2024 or 2025 1st - NO has right to take LA's pick in 2024 or defer to 2025.

Ingram has more potential than Beal - remember he's still just 21, he's got absurd length, and he's filling out. Imagine how good he'll be when he finally gets a 3 point shot - which he probably will because he's got nice form. Look at a log of his last 8 games before he got injured - those are some staggering stats. I'll take NAW, Ingram, Ball and a 1st - I think they like Hayes too much to include him. NO's gonna be a fun team to watch.

[gambitx777]

This could not be done till 12/15/19 but here ya go.
Wiz get: Winslow, bam, herro, Schroeder, Hayward , second from Miami 2020 second from Boston 2021.
Boston gets : Adams , waiters, jamario Jones, McRae
OKC get dragic, Johnson, Miami unprotects first from 2023, Miami 2025 first and 2 seconds from Boston in 2020.
Heat: get Beal and wall.
I'll explain later gotta get back to work

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Edit , so the idea here is simple. The wiz get two blue Chip prospects in bam and herro. The we get two serviceable young guys in Winslow and Schroeder, on good deals. Answer get heyward. heyward is more movable that wall and if he gets back to form this year could be flipped for assets at the dead line. it's all about maximizing assets and if we use Beal to move wall getting another productive big money guy to flip can recoup the discount in attaching wall.

OKC gets value by getting a pick unprotected and another Miami pick. And some seconds I also theorize that James Johnson's might be able to be worked out for a bit out with OKC.

The Celtics get a center which obviously fits better with them at this point considering how many young wings they have and some filler guys in McRae and waiters and Jones. And they give up little to do so they bassically flop contracts here.

The heat get what they wanted. Nothing more nothing less and maybe a bit of an over pay but that's how a team with so few assets get an all NBA caliber guy like beal.

This is a pipe dream but fun to think about. Again the whole idea is to move wall while getting, stuff you can flip later. flip heyward for picks and more assets then try to flip Ian and bertins for a plus. Winslow and Schroeder are also guys you can flips at the dead line or next summer for more assets.

[nate33]

So NO could likely put together the beat package for Beal.

I'm cool on Ingram due to performance, health & contract status. Also I believe Griffin is really high on him, I'd prefer extracting additional assets while they keep Ingram.

The package I've come up with so far:
G Lonzo Ball
G Nickeil Alexander-Walker
C Jaxson Hayes
G E'Twaun Moore
2021 1st - will convert to unprotected in 2022 if it's not top 7.
2024 or 2025 1st - NO has right to take LA's pick in 2024 or defer to 2025.

Another team that is a better fit next summer... But NOP is interesting. Dont care about Hayes because we have Bryant and i much prefer a top 15 pick in 2021 or 2022.

So I would want:
Ball (maybe sent to 3rd team)
NAW
2022 LAL 1st (Protected 8-30 in 2021, so more than likely 2022 which is unprotected)
2024/25 LAL pick you mentioned above
And ALL of our 2nds back ('20, '21, '23)

That gives us 3 1st (Re-routing Ball), 2 of which are very interesting. 3 middle/high 2nds
Plus we get a nice 20M+ TPE to take on salary for another pick.

Again...next summer

I think we're in the right ballpark here. They presumably really want to keep Hayes as their center of the future, and we don't really want him, so I'm fine with leaving Hayes there.

pcbothwel's deal is like Dat2U's only he lets them keep Hayes and asks for three 2nds. I'd let them keep Hayes but ask for New Orleans' 2020 1st with top 5 protection.

[nate33]

This could not be done till 12/15/19 but here ya go.
Wiz get: Winslow, bam, herro, Schroeder, Hayward , second from Miami 2020 second from Boston 2021.
Boston gets : Adams , waiters, jamario Jones, McRae
OKC get dragic, Johnson, Miami unprotects first from 2023, Miami 2025 first and 2 seconds from Boston in 2020.
Heat: get Beal and wall.
I'll explain later gotta get back to work

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Edit , so the idea here is simple. The wiz get two blue Chip prospects in bam and herro. The we get two serviceable young guys in Winslow and Schroeder, on good deals. Answer get heyward. heyward is more movable that wall and if he gets back to form this year could be flipped for assets at the dead line. it's all about maximizing assets and if we use Beal to move wall getting another productive big money guy to flip can recoup the discount in attaching wall.

OKC gets value by getting a pick unprotected and another Miami pick. And some seconds I also theorize that James Johnson's might be able to be worked out for a bit out with OKC.

The Celtics get a center which obviously fits better with them at this point considering how many young wings they have and some filler guys in McRae and waiters and Jones. And they give up little to do so they bassically flop contracts here.

The heat get what they wanted. Nothing more nothing less and maybe a bit of an over pay but that's how a team with so few assets get an all NBA caliber guy like beal.

This is a pipe dream but fun to think about. Again the whole idea is to move wall while getting, stuff you can flip later. flip heyward for picks and more assets then try to flip Ian and bertins for a plus. Winslow and Schroeder are also guys you can flips at the dead line or next summer for more assets.

Please stop packaging Wall with Beal. It didn't make sense the last 10 times and it still doesn't make sense now.

[gambitx777]

It can actually make sense, while I generally agree that there is no rush to trade Beal and wall is probably pegged to be back at 85 percent. A deal like this that gets wall gone and gets you guys you can then piece out to bassically get the assets back, that you lost to a discount on Beal by sticking wall in the deal. Basically in a round about way, cuts wall off the books and you got the package you wanted by trading Beal alone and got wall off the book for free, it just takes extra work. I don't think dismissing such a notion is wise, but definitely the viability of such an idea is out there and would be hard to do no matter what you come up with. A trade like this being too far fetched based on principal is definitely a viable argument but the general notion and idea behind said trade is not a bad one imo.

This could not be done till 12/15/19 but here ya go.
Wiz get: Winslow, bam, herro, Schroeder, Hayward , second from Miami 2020 second from Boston 2021.
Boston gets : Adams , waiters, jamario Jones, McRae
OKC get dragic, Johnson, Miami unprotects first from 2023, Miami 2025 first and 2 seconds from Boston in 2020.
Heat: get Beal and wall.
I'll explain later gotta get back to work

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app
Edit , so the idea here is simple. The wiz get two blue Chip prospects in bam and herro. The we get two serviceable young guys in Winslow and Schroeder, on good deals. Answer get heyward. heyward is more movable that wall and if he gets back to form this year could be flipped for assets at the dead line. it's all about maximizing assets and if we use Beal to move wall getting another productive big money guy to flip can recoup the discount in attaching wall.

OKC gets value by getting a pick unprotected and another Miami pick. And some seconds I also theorize that James Johnson's might be able to be worked out for a bit out with OKC.

The Celtics get a center which obviously fits better with them at this point considering how many young wings they have and some filler guys in McRae and waiters and Jones. And they give up little to do so they bassically flop contracts here.

The heat get what they wanted. Nothing more nothing less and maybe a bit of an over pay but that's how a team with so few assets get an all NBA caliber guy like beal.

This is a pipe dream but fun to think about. Again the whole idea is to move wall while getting, stuff you can flip later. flip heyward for picks and more assets then try to flip Ian and bertins for a plus. Winslow and Schroeder are also guys you can flips at the dead line or next summer for more assets.

Please stop packaging Wall with Beal. It didn't make sense the last 10 times and it still doesn't make sense now.

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[dangermouse]

Looking at the news that Clips second port of call after Houston was Wizards for Beal, before they moved on to OKC for George.

My first thought was wow, we could have perhaps got an even bigger haul than the king's ransom OKC got in the trade. All those firsts and pick swaps, plus i quite like SGA.

Then my second thought was... wow Beal was second choice after Harden. Thats pretty high honours and speaks to his level of play last year without Wall. Maybe we are smart to keep a hold of him as Houston were smart to turn them down as well.

[nate33]

After the Wizards cut three players and get their roster size down to 15 (they'll cut Booth, Phillip, and one of Robinson/McRae/Jones), they'll have about $5.2M in luxtax room.

I'm looking around to find any trades where the Wizards could take on up to $5.2M in salary in exchange for picks. The obvious trade partners are the over-the-luxtax teams: Miami, Detroit, Golden State, Houston and Portland.

We could either trade a big contract like Mahinmi or Miles and take back a bigger contract, by maximizing the Trade Exception allowance, or we could trade our $5M Satoransky TPE (we'd have to also trade or cut another player though).

After a brief glance, the best move I could come up with is CJ Miles to Miami for Meyers Leonard + cash + a 2022 2nd (worst of PHI/DEN). That's a pretty crappy pick though. I think it's a last resort trade we could make at the Trade Deadline, but I'd rather look for a better pick.

Any other ideas?