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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1921 » by Ruzious » Wed Sep 9, 2020 12:44 pm

nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Bertans is also a possible Milwaukee target - as Marvin Williams has just announced his retirement, and the Bucks will likely either reject their option to keep Ilyasova or trade him. Bucks also desperately need backcourt help.

I was looking at their payroll and couldn't really figure out a way to make a Bertans trade happen - not without sending back some of their remaining guard depth (George Hill). I guess they could opt in on Ilyasova's final year and then use him as ballast along with Robin Lopez, but that ultimately adds to their luxtax bill.

Any chance they let coach Budd go? Now THAT would be a good acquisition!

You're exactly right on the issues regarding a trade with the Bucks. Believe it or not, the Bucks already have a very long thread on who to replace coach Budd. Many are convinced that his record - going back to Atlanta where he also over-achieved - shows that he can't coach in the playoffs. :noway: It's not his fault that Milwaukee's backcourt produced nothing in the playoffs. For whatever reasons, George Hill came up empty, DDV sucked during the entire COVID period, and Bledsoe was playing hurt and having his usual postseason demise. And Miami's a real up and coming team with seemingly no weaknesses. Tbh, I'm really looking forward to watching a Miami/Boston series even more than an LA/LA series.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1922 » by payitforward » Wed Sep 9, 2020 2:37 pm

Ruzious wrote:...after their disappointing playoffs performance, Brand is under pressure to make significant moves - which could lead to mistakes on his part.

I've been critical of Brand, but the more one understands how actively, badly obstructive their ownership has been for the last 5 years, it may not be down to him -- or not entirely so.

For that matter, the guy retired from the NBA in October '16; he's been moved up the FO ladder in a hurry (another bad ownership decision). No surprise if his GM work is at "rookie" level.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1923 » by payitforward » Wed Sep 9, 2020 8:43 pm

This is kind of a fun article in which the author suggests one "terrific" off-season trade idea for each NBA team.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2907887-1-offseason-trade-idea-for-every-nba-team

His idea for us is completely ridiculous: he wants us to trade the #9 pick, Thomas Bryant & Troy Brown Jr. (plus Jerome Robinson & Ish Smith) to Orlando for their #15 pick & Nikola Vucevic. To help our rebounding. This is such a stupid idea, it's hard even to comment on it. Some of the other ideas are equally entertaining. A few even make sense.

But, I was stimulated to wonder whether there was a possible trade with Orlando.

Of course, what I'd really like to do is exchange "Mo"s with them -- to that end I'd also happily exchange R1 picks.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1924 » by Ruzious » Wed Sep 9, 2020 10:08 pm

payitforward wrote:This is kind of a fun article in which the author suggests one "terrific" off-season trade idea for each NBA team.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2907887-1-offseason-trade-idea-for-every-nba-team

His idea for us is completely ridiculous: he wants us to trade the #9 pick, Thomas Bryant & Troy Brown Jr. (plus Jerome Robinson & Ish Smith) to Orlando for their #15 pick & Nikola Vucevic. To help our rebounding. This is such a stupid idea, it's hard even to comment on it. Some of the other ideas are equally entertaining. A few even make sense.

But, I was stimulated to wonder whether there was a possible trade with Orlando.

Of course, what I'd really like to do is exchange "Mo"s with them -- to that end I'd also happily exchange R1 picks.

Vucevic is very good, but would I rather have him at 30 making $24 mil a year or Bryant at 23 making about one third the pay? And... give away TBJ And... pick 6 picks later in the draft. It's an easy decision.

Tbh, I don't see a good trade with Orlando.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1925 » by payitforward » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:43 am

Aside from everything else wrong with the trade (including that it does not achieve its stated goal of improving our rebounding), it would leave us with a total of 6 guys on our team -- 7 after we picked up Bonga's option & all the way up to 9 after making our 2 picks in the draft. Re-sign Bertans for $15m, & we'd be at @$122m with 10 players.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1926 » by Ruzious » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:05 pm

What about Michael Porter Jr? He's certainly a talent, but he looked whiney when being interviewed last night - complaining that he didn't get the ball enough. And there's always going to be questions about his knee - with the family history. I definitely got the impression he wasn't happy with his coach and/or teammates, and that could lead to him being made available. I call him a scoring savant, and he rebounds well, runs the floor real well, is physically what you want in a PF. If we made an offer, it would start with Rui. What else should be added?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1927 » by payitforward » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:03 pm

Based on productivity, you can't fault Porter -- he had an outstanding season. But, he took 17 shots per 40 minutes, so if he's complaining about not seeing the ball enough he could be a problem.

I'd trade him straight up for Rui in a minute, of course. He's miles better.

The problem comes if we have to add something. I'm not giving up picks, & I don't want to trade Brown or Bonga. So... what do we have to trade?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1928 » by TGW » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:15 pm

Rui + 9 for MPJ + 22
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1929 » by payitforward » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:22 pm

If I were confident that Porter's injury problems were over & that he posed no attitude problem (not suggesting he does, btw), it would be really hard to pass on that deal. This is a draft where there are going to be some very good prospects available at that #22 spot.

Of course, you'd only execute the trade once you saw who was available at #9. But if the day after the draft, we had Michael Porter Jr., Tyler Bey & Xavier Tillman on our squad (but no Rui), I'd view that as a big success.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1930 » by nate33 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:31 pm

What about something centered around Bertans for MPJ? Bertans is the basically a veteran version of MPJ - a crazy good shooter who needs no space to get his shot off, but one who won't make all the defensive mistakes. Obviously, MPJ has way more upside, but is Denver willing to wait around for that?

I'm thinking S&T Bertans + #9 for MPJ + Harris. They unload Harris' nasty contract and get a lotto pick in the deal. (If we could also get back the #22, I'd like it more, but I'm trying not to be greedy.)

That's an interesting rotation for the future:

Guards: Wall, Beal, Brown
Forwards: MPJ, Rui, Bonga
Centers: Bryant, Wagner (maybe acquire a vet like Tristian Thompson)
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1931 » by payitforward » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:17 pm

nate33 wrote:I'm thinking S&T Bertans + #9 for MPJ + Harris. They unload Harris' nasty contract and get a lotto pick in the deal. (If we could also get back the #22, I'd like it more, but I'm trying not to be greedy.)...

In this case, we seem to be signing Bertans for the sole purpose of taking on Harris's salary in the subsequent trade.

I'd say Rui & #9 for Porter & #22 is a better deal for us, no? Porter is younger than Rui, unquestionably had a better first season in the league, & has more upside than Rui as well. Hence the exchange of picks.

In this case, of course, we would still be able to re-sign Bertans -- rather than absorb Harris's deal.

If you think they wouldn't go for that trade, we might leave them with the #22 pick. Yet, if that's what it took to do the trade, I wonder whether Tommy would expose himself to the criticism that would go with the deal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1932 » by Ruzious » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:02 pm

Yeah, put me down for TGW's idea of Rui &9 for Porter and 22. No doubt there will be talent available at 22. it's possible Saddiq Bey slips to there. Or CCJ fave Jalen Smith. I also like Desmond Bane for the Wiz - though he might last till the Wiz 2nd rounder.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1933 » by wall_glizzy » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:58 pm

It's possible that this Porter thing blows up to the point where the Nuggets feel obligated to trade him (maybe even at a loss; recall that they traded Nurkic and a first for Mason Plumlee just to get the locker room in order), but I kind of doubt it.

I think Rui's still got a decent amount of value around the league, so the trade where we're swapping picks feels pretty reasonable value-wise. If anything, I think fit is the hold-up here - Rui projects in no way as the sort of rim-protecting 4 (i.e. the current Jerami Grant role) that the Nuggets are going to need next to Jokic for the foreseeable future. I know that we like to think of Rui developing as a 3 because that's the highest-upside outcome (rather, it's the eventual outcome of his highest-upside comparison), but I - and, I think, a significant portion of the league - remain pretty skeptical of that.

For what it's worth (the Nuggets are my second, and adopted hometown, team), I don't see Porter moving. If it happens, considering the lessons of this postseason, I'm almost positive that it'd be for a veteran - either an absolute blue-chipper of a 3&D type or a defensively competent bucket-getter where the Nuggets sacrifice some unrealized upside for a known quantity (though not to the extent of taking back Bertans :wink:).

If I had to guess, we might see him packaged with one of the team's more burdensome contracts, like Barton or Harris, for somebody like Buddy Hield once his extension kicks in. Again, though, the team standing pat is far more likely than not - I don't think the front office is in any rush to tighten up their championship window or press the panic button on roster construction issues that can easily be fixed in FA.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1934 » by dckingsfan » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:45 pm

Anyone else but PIF and I for Bamba for Rui straight up? Clearly Orlando is going Vucevic/Birch.

If we need to include Mo Wagner - fine.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1935 » by nate33 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:52 am

dckingsfan wrote:Anyone else but PIF and I for Bamba for Rui straight up? Clearly Orlando is going Vucevic/Birch.

If we need to include Mo Wagner - fine.


I don't like it. If Orlando is going with Vucevic/Birch, then they can't afford to keep Bamba anyhow. They will look to trade him and I don't know how many teams will trade quality assets for a project center. Half-decent role-playing centers are a dime-a-dozen these days. Why sacrifice a high pick for Bamba if you can just grab Tristian Thompson or Nerlens Noel in free agency?

I'd probably trade the #9 and Wagner for Bamba and the #15, but that's about as much as I'd give up.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1936 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:17 am

payitforward wrote:Based on productivity, you can't fault Porter -- he had an outstanding season. But, he took 17 shots per 40 minutes, so if he's complaining about not seeing the ball enough he could be a problem.

I'd trade him straight up for Rui in a minute, of course. He's miles better.

The problem comes if we have to add something. I'm not giving up picks, & I don't want to trade Brown or Bonga. So... what do we have to trade?


I’d do Rui and Bonga for Porter without question.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1937 » by pcbothwel » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:49 pm

nate33 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Anyone else but PIF and I for Bamba for Rui straight up? Clearly Orlando is going Vucevic/Birch.

If we need to include Mo Wagner - fine.


I don't like it. If Orlando is going with Vucevic/Birch, then they can't afford to keep Bamba anyhow. They will look to trade him and I don't know how many teams will trade quality assets for a project center. Half-decent role-playing centers are a dime-a-dozen these days. Why sacrifice a high pick for Bamba if you can just grab Tristian Thompson or Nerlens Noel in free agency?

I'd probably trade the #9 and Wagner for Bamba and the #15, but that's about as much as I'd give up.


Same... I'd also throw in a swap of 2nds (37 for 45). If they wanted to save some money this year and open up more cap space next year, then I would take on Aminu's contract:

Ish, Robinson, 9 for Bamba, Aminu, 15

- But only if Okongwu and Haliburton are NOT there at 9.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1938 » by dckingsfan » Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:11 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
nate33 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Anyone else but PIF and I for Bamba for Rui straight up? Clearly Orlando is going Vucevic/Birch.

If we need to include Mo Wagner - fine.

I don't like it. If Orlando is going with Vucevic/Birch, then they can't afford to keep Bamba anyhow. They will look to trade him and I don't know how many teams will trade quality assets for a project center. Half-decent role-playing centers are a dime-a-dozen these days. Why sacrifice a high pick for Bamba if you can just grab Tristian Thompson or Nerlens Noel in free agency?

I'd probably trade the #9 and Wagner for Bamba and the #15, but that's about as much as I'd give up.


Same... I'd also throw in a swap of 2nds (37 for 45). If they wanted to save some money this year and open up more cap space next year, then I would take on Aminu's contract:

Ish, Robinson, 9 for Bamba, Aminu, 15

- But only if Okongwu and Haliburton are NOT there at 9.

yeah, kind of a decision tree... If you can land Noel - no need for the trade. If you can get a rim protector at 9 - no need for the trade.

If you can't and you don't think you will get a rim protector at 9 I would do the trade. But I think that Bamba will be better than Rui over time. If you could get Bamba for your trade above, I do that in a heartbeat and grab a PG at 9.

It would allow us to play our forwards with impunity on D (Bertans, Brown, Bonga). And I think Bamba would thrive next to Wall.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1939 » by nate33 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:23 pm

dckingsfan wrote:But I think that Bamba will be better than Rui over time.

I don't, at least not while factoring positional scarcity.

I just don't see a possibility that Mo Bamba is a starting center who can stay on the floor in a playoff matchup against a decent smallball squad. Which ultimately means he can't help you win.

Hachimura has a much higher upside. It remains to be seen whether he can reach it, but he's got the perfect NBA body, solid athleticism, many NBA skills, and reportedly a high IQ and excellent work ethic. His main deficiency is not having a "feel" for the game. That, and a low arc on his shot that limits his range. I'm pretty confident the shot will improve. And if he develops a better feel for the game with experience, I think he can certainly be a quality starter on a good team - a guy with enough skill and versatility that he can't get played off the floor against certain matchups.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#1940 » by dckingsfan » Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:42 pm

nate33 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:But I think that Bamba will be better than Rui over time.

I don't, at least not while factoring positional scarcity.

I just don't see a possibility that Mo Bamba is a starting center who can stay on the floor in a playoff matchup against a decent smallball squad. Which ultimately means he can't help you win.

Hachimura has a much higher upside. It remains to be seen whether he can reach it, but he's got the perfect NBA body, solid athleticism, many NBA skills, and reportedly a high IQ and excellent work ethic. His main deficiency is not having a "feel" for the game. That, and a low arc on his shot that limits his range. I'm pretty confident the shot will improve. And if he develops a better feel for the game with experience, I think he can certainly be a quality starter on a good team - a guy with enough skill and versatility that he can't get played off the floor against certain matchups.

Yeah, I don't see Bamba being run off the floor in the long-term.

And with Rui and his defensive rebounding skills and rim protecting skills he has to have a rim protector behind him. So there is that...

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