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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#341 » by montestewart » Mon Nov 4, 2019 9:05 pm

Mojo Amok wrote:
doclinkin wrote:I actually think now one good value in the league may be inking cheap early extensions on late bloomer talents. If you can in fact develop them.

Then you have a core of players under your system that peak while under an extended rookie contract. And they prove to be moveable assets later on if you’re trying package a deal or slide into someone else’s good deal.

In that respect players like Bonga and Wagner may be the exact sort of players we would trade for or sign. Guys who show promise in practice but on court are buried behind other players who are a year or two more advanced in their similarly late-blooming development (Bryant, Brown).


That would definitely be a nice dynamic to leverage - I guess the key is finding that sweet spot on the money to where someone's willing to ink the long term deal rather than the short term "show me" contracts that we see so often. Both the team and the player taking on a certain degree of risk and presumed security - threading the needle in negotiations.

Though not a late bloomer exactly, we kinda did something like that with Bryant, but it may have just had more to do with him being a center and the weakness of that market (and even then I would have greatly preferred a fourth-year tacked on).

Suffice to say I would approve of that plan.

Be careful about offering extensions from a position of power to players who get shot while soliciting prostitutes, because the guaranteed bargain rate contract you leverage may be "bulletproof"
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#342 » by Ruzious » Tue Nov 5, 2019 8:12 am

montestewart wrote:
Mojo Amok wrote:
doclinkin wrote:I actually think now one good value in the league may be inking cheap early extensions on late bloomer talents. If you can in fact develop them.

Then you have a core of players under your system that peak while under an extended rookie contract. And they prove to be moveable assets later on if you’re trying package a deal or slide into someone else’s good deal.

In that respect players like Bonga and Wagner may be the exact sort of players we would trade for or sign. Guys who show promise in practice but on court are buried behind other players who are a year or two more advanced in their similarly late-blooming development (Bryant, Brown).


That would definitely be a nice dynamic to leverage - I guess the key is finding that sweet spot on the money to where someone's willing to ink the long term deal rather than the short term "show me" contracts that we see so often. Both the team and the player taking on a certain degree of risk and presumed security - threading the needle in negotiations.

Though not a late bloomer exactly, we kinda did something like that with Bryant, but it may have just had more to do with him being a center and the weakness of that market (and even then I would have greatly preferred a fourth-year tacked on).

Suffice to say I would approve of that plan.

Be careful about offering extensions from a position of power to players who get shot while soliciting prostitutes, because the guaranteed bargain rate contract you leverage may be "bulletproof"

That could lead to a blatche on our record. :no:
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#343 » by pcbothwel » Tue Nov 5, 2019 8:12 pm

payitforward wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:...Maybe Mahinmi & Bertans for Bazemore & Collins... Possibly throw in McRae too if needed.,,,

Another excellent idea!!


Thanks...
If SAS really needs the scoring... Bertans & IT for Lyles & Samanic

Big swing for Minny: Mahinmi, Bertans & IT for Dieng & Covington
Minny gets much needed outside shooting and opens up 33M+ in cap space this summer to group with KAT, Wiggins, and Culver
Wiz take on salary to surround young core and make a playoff push for the last two years of Beals contract.

Backcourt: Wall, Beal, 2020 1st, Robinson
Wings: Covington, Brown, Rui, Bonga
Bigs: Bryant, Dieng, Wagner

Very interesting group assuming Wall returns and Rui progresses accordingly
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#344 » by nate33 » Tue Nov 5, 2019 8:34 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
payitforward wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:...Maybe Mahinmi & Bertans for Bazemore & Collins... Possibly throw in McRae too if needed.,,,

Another excellent idea!!


Thanks...
If SAS really needs the scoring... Bertans & IT for Lyles & Samanic

Big swing for Minny: Mahinmi, Bertans & IT for Dieng & Covington
Minny gets much needed outside shooting and opens up 33M+ in cap space this summer to group with KAT, Wiggins, and Culver
Wiz take on salary to surround young core and make a playoff push for the last two years of Beals contract.

Backcourt: Wall, Beal, 2020 1st, Robinson
Wings: Covington, Brown, Rui, Bonga
Bigs: Bryant, Dieng, Wagner

Very interesting group assuming Wall returns and Rui progresses accordingly

Minnesota wouldn't trade Covington for Bertans. Not a chance.

I'm hoping we can trade IT for a 2nd round pick though. Or better yet, IT plus our high 2nd round pick (the CHI pick) for someone's low 1st round pick.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#345 » by gambitx777 » Tue Nov 5, 2019 8:54 pm

I really hope someone has some interest in IT .

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#346 » by gambitx777 » Tue Nov 5, 2019 9:41 pm

Cj miles looked ok last night too might be able to get an underperforming former high first rounder in the second year of their deal for him maybe? Same with IT imo

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#347 » by pcbothwel » Tue Nov 5, 2019 10:58 pm

nate33 wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
payitforward wrote:Another excellent idea!!


Thanks...
If SAS really needs the scoring... Bertans & IT for Lyles & Samanic

Big swing for Minny: Mahinmi, Bertans & IT for Dieng & Covington
Minny gets much needed outside shooting and opens up 33M+ in cap space this summer to group with KAT, Wiggins, and Culver
Wiz take on salary to surround young core and make a playoff push for the last two years of Beals contract.

Backcourt: Wall, Beal, 2020 1st, Robinson
Wings: Covington, Brown, Rui, Bonga
Bigs: Bryant, Dieng, Wagner

Very interesting group assuming Wall returns and Rui progresses accordingly

Minnesota wouldn't trade Covington for Bertans. Not a chance.

I'm hoping we can trade IT for a 2nd round pick though. Or better yet, IT plus our high 2nd round pick (the CHI pick) for someone's low 1st round pick.


Probably right... I was assuming getting out out of Diengs last year and opening up the max spot could be interesting.

Honestly... I enjoy the IT redemption story as much as the next person, but he simply cant score enough to overcome how bad he is on defense. I want to sell high as soon as Brown, Bongo, and Robinson all appear ready.

Philly seems like a good fit. They have a few prospects and 2nds.
My previous Portland trade too
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#348 » by Ruzious » Wed Nov 6, 2019 12:26 am

nate33 wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
payitforward wrote:Another excellent idea!!


Thanks...
If SAS really needs the scoring... Bertans & IT for Lyles & Samanic

Big swing for Minny: Mahinmi, Bertans & IT for Dieng & Covington
Minny gets much needed outside shooting and opens up 33M+ in cap space this summer to group with KAT, Wiggins, and Culver
Wiz take on salary to surround young core and make a playoff push for the last two years of Beals contract.

Backcourt: Wall, Beal, 2020 1st, Robinson
Wings: Covington, Brown, Rui, Bonga
Bigs: Bryant, Dieng, Wagner

Very interesting group assuming Wall returns and Rui progresses accordingly

Minnesota wouldn't trade Covington for Bertans. Not a chance.

I'm hoping we can trade IT for a 2nd round pick though. Or better yet, IT plus our high 2nd round pick (the CHI pick) for someone's low 1st round pick.

I like that idea. And we're in no hurry. Bide our time, and wait till a playoff team gets an injury and needs someone like IT.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#349 » by gambitx777 » Wed Nov 6, 2019 2:19 am

Jonah bolden from the 76ers makes sense for IT makes a good bit of sense to me. We could use another young big. We have too. many PGs as it is. And IT just can't play D, but they really need points off the bench

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#350 » by Shoe » Wed Nov 6, 2019 6:06 pm

Who are the candidates to trade our top 3 pick for? I don't understand the cap too well.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#351 » by Mojo Amok » Wed Nov 6, 2019 6:39 pm

Shoe wrote:Who are the candidates to trade our top 3 pick for? I don't understand the cap too well.


Once the trade deadline passes, the Wizards have almost zero ability to match the salary for anyone of note who isn't on a rookie deal. We just don't have any cap ballast.

The odds are also very remote that they would trade the pick before the lottery position is settled (its value would be degraded by the uncertainty and the Wizards, of course, don't want to casually give away what might end up being a golden ticket. You get fired for that kind of thing).

Taking both positions into account, it's highly unlikely that the pick will get moved outright. Only if a rookie contract guy became available or in a trade back would it be possible, IMO.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#352 » by Shoe » Wed Nov 6, 2019 6:53 pm

Mojo Amok wrote:
Shoe wrote:Who are the candidates to trade our top 3 pick for? I don't understand the cap too well.


Once the trade deadline passes, the Wizards have almost zero ability to match the salary for anyone of note who isn't on a rookie deal. We just don't have any cap ballast.

The odds are also very remote that they would trade the pick before the lottery position is settled (its value would be degraded by the uncertainty and the Wizards, of course, don't want to casually give away what might end up being a golden ticket. You get fired for that kind of thing).

Taking both positions into account, it's highly unlikely that the pick will get moved outright. Only if a rookie contract guy became available or in a trade back would it be possible, IMO.


Thanks, I should clarify I meant next off-season after Ian is off the books. It's unlikely we trade our pick but I'm wondering what could be out there.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#353 » by nate33 » Wed Nov 6, 2019 7:36 pm

Shoe wrote:
Mojo Amok wrote:
Shoe wrote:Who are the candidates to trade our top 3 pick for? I don't understand the cap too well.


Once the trade deadline passes, the Wizards have almost zero ability to match the salary for anyone of note who isn't on a rookie deal. We just don't have any cap ballast.

The odds are also very remote that they would trade the pick before the lottery position is settled (its value would be degraded by the uncertainty and the Wizards, of course, don't want to casually give away what might end up being a golden ticket. You get fired for that kind of thing).

Taking both positions into account, it's highly unlikely that the pick will get moved outright. Only if a rookie contract guy became available or in a trade back would it be possible, IMO.


Thanks, I should clarify I meant next off-season after Ian is off the books. It's unlikely we trade our pick but I'm wondering what could be out there.

Mojo Amok's point applies next offseason. Once the Trade Deadline passes this year, Mahinmi's salary cannot be used as cap ballast. Next summer, we will have only Wall, Beal, Ish, rookie contracts and vet minimum contracts. We will be maybe $16M or so under the cap so we could technically trade away our pick for a $16M contract, but I just don't think anyone being paid that little is worth a top 5 pick.

As Mojo Amok pointed out, the only players that are both cheap and worth a high pick are guys still on rookie contracts. And rookie contract guys are almost never traded unless they're busts. (The selling team values the player at his best-case potential, and the buying team values the player at more of a real-world likelihood potential, so the two sides can't agree on fair value.)

The other difficulty is finding a team with a good, reasonably young asset, who would rather have a high pick. Most teams with good, reasonably young assets are trying to win now, not build for 2 or 3 years down the road.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#354 » by Ruzious » Wed Nov 6, 2019 8:27 pm

The Bucks will be an Ilyasova injury away from panicking and trading the Pacers 1st rounder (18th now) for Bertans and the 2nd rounder the Wiz own. We could then still sign Bertans in the offseason.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#355 » by pcbothwel » Wed Nov 6, 2019 8:31 pm

Shoe wrote:
Mojo Amok wrote:
Shoe wrote:Who are the candidates to trade our top 3 pick for? I don't understand the cap too well.


Once the trade deadline passes, the Wizards have almost zero ability to match the salary for anyone of note who isn't on a rookie deal. We just don't have any cap ballast.

The odds are also very remote that they would trade the pick before the lottery position is settled (its value would be degraded by the uncertainty and the Wizards, of course, don't want to casually give away what might end up being a golden ticket. You get fired for that kind of thing).

Taking both positions into account, it's highly unlikely that the pick will get moved outright. Only if a rookie contract guy became available or in a trade back would it be possible, IMO.


Thanks, I should clarify I meant next off-season after Ian is off the books. It's unlikely we trade our pick but I'm wondering what could be out there.


I just dont see it.... Plus you have a bunch of guys who fit perfectly as the 3rd guard from day 1

Edwards
Ball
Maledon
Anthony
Mannion
Killian Hayes
Hampton

No way to give up the chance at getting one of the top 4
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#356 » by gambitx777 » Wed Nov 6, 2019 8:36 pm

Way to early to be talking about trading a top pick, when the wiz might not even being position for that. Obviously trade backs for more picks and young guys are things to think about but it's too early.

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#357 » by Ruzious » Wed Nov 6, 2019 8:47 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
Shoe wrote:
Mojo Amok wrote:
Once the trade deadline passes, the Wizards have almost zero ability to match the salary for anyone of note who isn't on a rookie deal. We just don't have any cap ballast.

The odds are also very remote that they would trade the pick before the lottery position is settled (its value would be degraded by the uncertainty and the Wizards, of course, don't want to casually give away what might end up being a golden ticket. You get fired for that kind of thing).

Taking both positions into account, it's highly unlikely that the pick will get moved outright. Only if a rookie contract guy became available or in a trade back would it be possible, IMO.


Thanks, I should clarify I meant next off-season after Ian is off the books. It's unlikely we trade our pick but I'm wondering what could be out there.


I just dont see it.... Plus you have a bunch of guys who fit perfectly as the 3rd guard from day 1

Edwards
Ball
Maledon
Anthony
Mannion
Killian Hayes
Hampton

No way to give up the chance at getting one of the top 4

Pretty much agree - the only way I see them trading is if they trade down a few spots. For instance, if they really want to get a player like Deni Avdija - who they know will be there at 8 - and they have the 3rd pick, they might trade from 3 to 8.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#358 » by nate33 » Wed Nov 6, 2019 8:58 pm

Ruzious wrote:The Bucks will be an Ilyasova injury away from panicking and trading the Pacers 1st rounder (18th now) for Bertans and the 2nd rounder the Wiz own. We could then still sign Bertans in the offseason.

Yes. I like it!

It really is important to note that we will have about $12M in cap room next summer (after accounting for our draft pick). If Bertans costs that or less, then RFA rights on him are unnecessary. We could have the best of both worlds: trade him for a pick AND have him back next year.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#359 » by Shoe » Wed Nov 6, 2019 9:40 pm

nate33 wrote:
Shoe wrote:
Mojo Amok wrote:
Once the trade deadline passes, the Wizards have almost zero ability to match the salary for anyone of note who isn't on a rookie deal. We just don't have any cap ballast.

The odds are also very remote that they would trade the pick before the lottery position is settled (its value would be degraded by the uncertainty and the Wizards, of course, don't want to casually give away what might end up being a golden ticket. You get fired for that kind of thing).

Taking both positions into account, it's highly unlikely that the pick will get moved outright. Only if a rookie contract guy became available or in a trade back would it be possible, IMO.


Thanks, I should clarify I meant next off-season after Ian is off the books. It's unlikely we trade our pick but I'm wondering what could be out there.

Mojo Amok's point applies next offseason. Once the Trade Deadline passes this year, Mahinmi's salary cannot be used as cap ballast. Next summer, we will have only Wall, Beal, Ish, rookie contracts and vet minimum contracts. We will be maybe $16M or so under the cap so we could technically trade away our pick for a $16M contract, but I just don't think anyone being paid that little is worth a top 5 pick.

As Mojo Amok pointed out, the only players that are both cheap and worth a high pick are guys still on rookie contracts. And rookie contract guys are almost never traded unless they're busts. (The selling team values the player at his best-case potential, and the buying team values the player at more of a real-world likelihood potential, so the two sides can't agree on fair value.)

The other difficulty is finding a team with a good, reasonably young asset, who would rather have a high pick. Most teams with good, reasonably young assets are trying to win now, not build for 2 or 3 years down the road.


Oops my bad Mojo. I was envisioning a scenario in which we pull off a trade for a star wing to play with Wall, Beal, Rui, Bryant and somehow win a title akin to the Raptors. In reality it'd be Foye / Miller 2.0
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII 

Post#360 » by nate33 » Wed Nov 6, 2019 9:54 pm

Shoe wrote:Oops my bad Mojo. I was envisioning a scenario in which we pull off a trade for a star wing to play with Wall, Beal, Rui, Bryant and somehow win a title akin to the Raptors. In reality it'd be Foye / Miller 2.0

Not many teams with a star in his prime who is willing to trade him. One plausible name that comes to mind is Myles Turner if Indy has a disappointing year. But even that is questionable. I don't think Indy wants to wait 2 years to develop a young pick when Oladipo only has so many prime years left.

Maybe Orlando would trade a guy like Aaron Gordon?

Those are the only two guys I can think of at the moment.

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