Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

[nate33]

Dwight Powell Is out with an Achilles injury. I wonder if Dallas would be interested in Mahinmi to get them through the season? They have Courtney Lee's deadweight contract to trade.

Throw in a second-rounder and he's yours!

[100proof]

Come in peace.

Would Bryant be able to be pried away from washington? And what sort of cost is attached to him?

[payitforward]

Welcome. I would say the answer is "no."

Above all, that's because I can't see that you have anything that would fit as an offer for him. Am I missing something?

[100proof]

Welcome. I would say the answer is "no."

Above all, that's because I can't see that you have anything that would fit as an offer for him. Am I missing something?

Not speaking on behalf of celtics in particular, but if he were available, what would you be looking to get? A lotto pick? A young small forward? Etc. What sort of return would be expected or is he considered completely untouchable

[pcbothwel]

Welcome. I would say the answer is "no."

Above all, that's because I can't see that you have anything that would fit as an offer for him. Am I missing something?

Not speaking on behalf of celtics in particular, but if he were available, what would you be looking to get? A lotto pick? A young small forward? Etc. What sort of return would be expected or is he considered completely untouchable

I would look for a Robert Williams, Memphis pick, plus filler (Theis or Kanter) as the basic framework of the trade. Adding a third team to take on Theis/Kanter and sending us dead salary plus another small asset could help bridge the gap.

[payitforward]

I don't think of any player as "untouchable." There is always some deal you'd take for anyone, no matter who he is!

Last year, in 1500 minutes, Thomas Bryant put up some great numbers. If we compare them to other young Centers, say guys in their first 3-4 seasons in the league, only KAT & Mitchell Robinson were as good or better than Bryant.

This year, Bryant started slowly, I'm not sure why; then he was lifting his numbers game by game, & then he got injured. He's only been back a few games.

I value him based on last year, & of course I expect him to develop; he's only 22. That means it would take a whole lot to get him.

Looking at your question about a lotto pick, for example, what % of lotto picks taken below #3 in the last say 5 years would you say are as good & as promising as Thomas Bryant? It's a small percentage isn't it? Let's say 30% of them.

In that case, I'd need 3 lotto picks to be sure to get a player as good or better than Bryant. But, of course, no one is going to give me 3 lotto picks for him!

That's what makes a trade hard in his case.

[payitforward]

Welcome. I would say the answer is "no."

Above all, that's because I can't see that you have anything that would fit as an offer for him. Am I missing something?

Not speaking on behalf of celtics in particular, but if he were available, what would you be looking to get? A lotto pick? A young small forward? Etc. What sort of return would be expected or is he considered completely untouchable

I would look for a Robert Williams, Memphis pick, plus filler (Theis or Kanter) as the basic framework of the trade. Adding a third team to take on Theis/Kanter and sending us dead salary plus another small asset could help bridge the gap.

I would never do that trade.

[pcbothwel]

Not speaking on behalf of celtics in particular, but if he were available, what would you be looking to get? A lotto pick? A young small forward? Etc. What sort of return would be expected or is he considered completely untouchable

I would look for a Robert Williams, Memphis pick, plus filler (Theis or Kanter) as the basic framework of the trade. Adding a third team to take on Theis/Kanter and sending us dead salary plus another small asset could help bridge the gap.

I would never do that trade.

Really... I see Robert Williams as a great fit with Mo Wagner and that pick is number 15/16. I also think we get a 2nd by moving Kanter to a third team for dead weight.

I love Bryant, but Im surprised you of all people would want to hold onto a guy that will be a UFA in just two more years and get 16-18M per... easy.

Im definitely open to keeping him, but if Memphis falls back to earth a little and that pick is in the 10-12 range... How do you say no to that?

[gambitx777]

Ian for Lee and Roby just forget about the second and cut Lee, robys playing good ball in the g league and his shooting looks likes it's coming along and we need more long term SF prospects.

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[Ruzious]

I would look for a Robert Williams, Memphis pick, plus filler (Theis or Kanter) as the basic framework of the trade. Adding a third team to take on Theis/Kanter and sending us dead salary plus another small asset could help bridge the gap.

I would never do that trade.

Really... I see Robert Williams as a great fit with Mo Wagner and that pick is number 15/16. I also think we get a 2nd by moving Kanter to a third team for dead weight.

I love Bryant, but Im surprised you of all people would want to hold onto a guy that will be a UFA in just two more years and get 16-18M per... easy.

Im definitely open to keeping him, but if Memphis falls back to earth a little and that pick is in the 10-12 range... How do you say no to that?

Hopefully Bryant's value will continue going up - that's a good thing for the Wiz, isn't it?

[payitforward]

I would look for a Robert Williams, Memphis pick, plus filler (Theis or Kanter) as the basic framework of the trade. Adding a third team to take on Theis/Kanter and sending us dead salary plus another small asset could help bridge the gap.

I would never do that trade.

Really... I see Robert Williams as a great fit with Mo Wagner and that pick is number 15/16. I also think we get a 2nd by moving Kanter to a third team for dead weight.

I love Bryant, but Im surprised you of all people would want to hold onto a guy that will be a UFA in just two more years and get 16-18M per... easy.

Im definitely open to keeping him, but if Memphis falls back to earth a little and that pick is in the 10-12 range... How do you say no to that?

Several reasons I don't like that trade. For starters, here the 24 guys taken from 10-15 in 2015-2018:


Justise Winslow
Myles Turner
Trey Lyles
Devin Booker
Cameron Payne
Kelly Oubre
Thon Maker
Domantas Sabonis
Taurean Waller-Prince
Georgios Papagiannis
Denzel Valentine
Juan Hernangomez
Zach Collins
Malik Monk
Luke Kennard
Donovan Mitchell
Bam Adebayo
Justin Jackson
Mikal Bridges
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Miles Bridges
Jerome Robinson
Michael Porter
Troy Brown, Jr.

Of course we wouldn't get a #10 pick, but let's be generous.

How many of those guys would you rather have than Thomas Bryant? We might well disagree about some, but the maximum I see is 7 guys (my own number would be smaller, but still...).

Let's call it 8 for easier arithmetic. So, the trade gives us a 1 out of 3 chance of getting someone as good as Thomas Bryant. Plus it gives us Robert Williams.

So... would you take Cameron Payne & Robert Williams for Thomas Bryant? How about Jerome Robinson & Williams? Papagiannis & Williams? Monk & Williams? Kennard & Williams?

Justin Jackson & Robert Williams for Thomas Bryant? How about Denzel Valentine & Robert Williams?

Everybody imagines we get Damontas Sabonis or Bam Adebayo. No. Much more likely is that we get Hernangomez or Justin Jackson. Or worse. Bryant is 22 years old; he could easily be a rookie this year. He has been tremendous, & he has tons of upside.

That was my first reason. My second reason is that the idea of wanting someone because he would be "a great fit with Mo Wagner" strikes me as unbelievable almost to the point of being comic. Mo Wagner had a few good games for us, I grant you that. But, there's little reason to think he'll be a solid backup Center let alone a starter.

Please note that I didn't say he won't be one. I said there is not enough reason to project him that positively. Hence, I wouldn't dream of making any personnel decision of any kind whatever because I thought it would work well with Mo Wagner.

Make sense? At least are my reasons understandable?

[pcbothwel]

I would never do that trade.

Really... I see Robert Williams as a great fit with Mo Wagner and that pick is number 15/16. I also think we get a 2nd by moving Kanter to a third team for dead weight.

I love Bryant, but Im surprised you of all people would want to hold onto a guy that will be a UFA in just two more years and get 16-18M per... easy.

Im definitely open to keeping him, but if Memphis falls back to earth a little and that pick is in the 10-12 range... How do you say no to that?

Several reasons I don't like that trade. For starters, here the 24 guys taken from 10-15 in 2015-2018:


Justise Winslow
Myles Turner
Trey Lyles
Devin Booker
Cameron Payne
Kelly Oubre
Thon Maker
Domantas Sabonis
Taurean Waller-Prince
Georgios Papagiannis
Denzel Valentine
Juan Hernangomez
Zach Collins
Malik Monk
Luke Kennard
Donovan Mitchell
Bam Adebayo
Justin Jackson
Mikal Bridges
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Miles Bridges
Jerome Robinson
Michael Porter
Troy Brown, Jr.

Of course we wouldn't get a #10 pick, but let's be generous.

How many of those guys would you rather have than Thomas Bryant? We might well disagree about some, but the maximum I see is 7 guys (my own number would be smaller, but still...).

Let's call it 8 for easier arithmetic. So, the trade gives us a 1 out of 3 chance of getting someone as good as Thomas Bryant. Plus it gives us Robert Williams.

So... would you take Cameron Payne & Robert Williams for Thomas Bryant? How about Jerome Robinson & Williams? Papagiannis & Williams? Monk & Williams? Kennard & Williams?

Justin Jackson & Robert Williams for Thomas Bryant? How about Denzel Valentine & Robert Williams?

Everybody imagines we get Damontas Sabonis or Bam Adebayo. No. Much more likely is that we get Hernangomez or Justin Jackson. Or worse. Bryant is 22 years old; he could easily be a rookie this year. He has been tremendous, & he has tons of upside.

That was my first reason. My second reason is that the idea of wanting someone because he would be "a great fit with Mo Wagner" strikes me as unbelievable almost to the point of being comic. Mo Wagner had a few good games for us, I grant you that. But, there's little reason to think he'll be a solid backup Center let alone a starter.

Please note that I didn't say he won't be one. I said there is not enough reason to project him that positively. Hence, I wouldn't dream of making any personnel decision of any kind whatever because I thought it would work well with Mo Wagner.

Make sense? At least are my reasons understandable?

It does...but I see 3 issues with your reasoning.

1) Mo Wagner: I agree that at this point Wagner is NOT a starter, but I see a solid rotational big that do a bit of everything as a Center...except be an elite PnR threat and block shots... hence my point about Williams being a solid partner with him to cover the 5 spot.

2) The Pick: Everything in the last couple years seems to show that TS and Co. have a solid scouting base. I dont see them picking bust. I have 10 players I would take on that list over Bryant given the contracts...which leads to my next point.

3) Bryant: You have made it clear on this board over and over that while you like Beal, we are a couple years away from competing and would therefore prefer to trade him to align our players peaks. So why do you deviate from that with Bryant.
You could argue that Bryant is better than Troy Brown, Michael Porter, or Mikal Bridges... but could you really prefer Bryant on a 2/16M contract vs any of those players for 4/10M plus RFA rights???... No way in hell would you pick Bryant in that scenario.

[Ruzious]

The guy who can't shoot made 12 of 14 shots yesterday scoring 34 points... and had 12 rebounds, 12 assists vs 3 to's, 5 steals, and 2 blocks.

Did I mention that Giannis won the MVP last season without being able to shoot, so to speak? I did? Oh. Did I mention that the Bucks led the NBA in wins last season - in part - because they did go to the trouble of adding players that complement him? They even have a PG who's very similar to Wall - though he's not as good a passer as Wall.

Do you think Philly would trade him for Beal?

I've been thinking about it, and I think this offer would at least get Philly's attention: Beal, Rui, and either Bryant or Wagner for Simmons and Shake Milton. I hate trading Bryant or Wagner (I'm more partial to Bryant, so I'd rather trade Wagner), but we don't need to keep both of them. And just hope we can find a bargain center to replace one of them. Maybe even Mahinmi at a MUCH reduced price. Actually, I'd like to draft the C/PF from USC - Onyeka Okongwu. We'd really need to keep Bertans. That could be a really fun team.

[payitforward]

...but I see 3 issues with your reasoning.

1) Mo Wagner: I agree that at this point Wagner is NOT a starter, but I see a solid rotational big that do a bit of everything as a Center...except be an elite PnR threat and block shots... hence my point about Williams being a solid partner with him to cover the 5 spot.

2) The Pick: Everything in the last couple years seems to show that TS and Co. have a solid scouting base. I dont see them picking bust. I have 10 players I would take on that list over Bryant given the contracts...which leads to my next point.

3) Bryant: You have made it clear on this board over and over that while you like Beal, we are a couple years away from competing and would therefore prefer to trade him to align our players peaks. So why do you deviate from that with Bryant.
You could argue that Bryant is better than Troy Brown, Michael Porter, or Mikal Bridges... but could you really prefer Bryant on a 2/16M contract vs any of those players for 4/10M plus RFA rights???... No way in hell would you pick Bryant in that scenario.

About to watch the Miami game, but here's a quick try at a reply to your points.

1. Wagner wasn't a really good college player. He was dropped from the German Olympic team. He was awful in SL. He was quite bad w/ the Lakers last year. He's played 429 minutes this season & been better than in the past. There is no way Mo has established himself as a rotation player. So, if that's what you see, then you're doing some projection via eye-test analysis. Now... that may or may not turn out to be accurate but -- to me at least -- is not the basis for the evaluation you make (above all not for liking another player, Williams, at least in part because he'd fit well w/ Wagner).

2. TS -- there are two issues here.

a) Overall, over time, no one does a reliably good job of picking players who turn out better than their pick position would make you expect. Independent of Tommy or anyone, once you get past the first 3 picks there is very little, maybe no, correlation between pick position & how well a guy does in the league.

b) As to TS in particular, he just fell in love w/ Rui Hachimura & went all in. He also targeted Admiral specifically. Managing the draft is not a player-scouting activity; it's an executive function activity. E.g. Danny Ainge used knowledge & strategic thinking to turn his #20 pick into 3 picks. Tommy picked a guy. I'm not drawing any conclusions, but I see no reason to believe Tommy will be better at drafting than other GMs.

3. Brad is 26; Bryant is 22. Moreover, I'm not choosing among Brown, Porter and/or Bridges. I'm accepting Robert Williams, who has earned no PT so far, & a pick whose value isn't as high as one might think, in return for a guy whose numbers last year give one some reason to think he has a shot to be a really outstanding long-term NBA player. The money issues you mention are certainly worthy of consideration, but they don't bridge that gap. At least not to me. YMMV of course.

In a trade of Bryant, I would want at least one young player who had actually established himself in the league, & I'd want a pick -- unless of course that player was, in my judgement, better than Bryant.

[gambitx777]

So does any one think Ian to the mavs has any fire to it,m

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[JWizmentality]

The guy who can't shoot made 12 of 14 shots yesterday scoring 34 points... and had 12 rebounds, 12 assists vs 3 to's, 5 steals, and 2 blocks.

Did I mention that Giannis won the MVP last season without being able to shoot, so to speak? I did? Oh. Did I mention that the Bucks led the NBA in wins last season - in part - because they did go to the trouble of adding players that complement him? They even have a PG who's very similar to Wall - though he's not as good a passer as Wall.

Do you think Philly would trade him for Beal?

I've been thinking about it, and I think this offer would at least get Philly's attention: Beal, Rui, and either Bryant or Wagner for Simmons and Shake Milton. I hate trading Bryant or Wagner (I'm more partial to Bryant, so I'd rather trade Wagner), but we don't need to keep both of them. And just hope we can find a bargain center to replace one of them. Maybe even Mahinmi at a MUCH reduced price. Actually, I'd like to draft the C/PF from USC - Onyeka Okongwu. We'd really need to keep Bertans. That could be a really fun team.

F*ck me what a massive overpay.

Ernie?

[Ruzious]

Do you think Philly would trade him for Beal?

I've been thinking about it, and I think this offer would at least get Philly's attention: Beal, Rui, and either Bryant or Wagner for Simmons and Shake Milton. I hate trading Bryant or Wagner (I'm more partial to Bryant, so I'd rather trade Wagner), but we don't need to keep both of them. And just hope we can find a bargain center to replace one of them. Maybe even Mahinmi at a MUCH reduced price. Actually, I'd like to draft the C/PF from USC - Onyeka Okongwu. We'd really need to keep Bertans. That could be a really fun team.

F*ck me what a massive overpay.

Ernie?

No Wes. You're being a complete homer if you think that's a massive overpay. There's an enormous difference between Simmons and Beal - at both ends of the court, and Simmons hasn't even touched his ceiling. Rui is a complete disaster defensively and the only offensive skill he has is what no smart NBA team is looking for - the mid-range jumper. And the Wiz got both Bryant and Wagner for essentially nothing.

[Wizardspride]

I've been thinking about it, and I think this offer would at least get Philly's attention: Beal, Rui, and either Bryant or Wagner for Simmons and Shake Milton. I hate trading Bryant or Wagner (I'm more partial to Bryant, so I'd rather trade Wagner), but we don't need to keep both of them. And just hope we can find a bargain center to replace one of them. Maybe even Mahinmi at a MUCH reduced price. Actually, I'd like to draft the C/PF from USC - Onyeka Okongwu. We'd really need to keep Bertans. That could be a really fun team.

F*ck me what a massive overpay.

Ernie?

No Wes. You're being a complete homer if you think that's a massive overpay. There's an enormous difference between Simmons and Beal - at both ends of the court, and Simmons hasn't even touched his ceiling. Rui is a complete disaster defensively and the only offensive skill he has is what no smart NBA team is looking for - the mid-range jumper. And the Wiz got both Bryant and Wagner for essentially nothing.

I'm a homer too.. .cause I hate that trade proposal.

Full disclosure: I'm not enamored with Ben Simmons.

[DCZards]

I've been thinking about it, and I think this offer would at least get Philly's attention: Beal, Rui, and either Bryant or Wagner for Simmons and Shake Milton. I hate trading Bryant or Wagner (I'm more partial to Bryant, so I'd rather trade Wagner), but we don't need to keep both of them. And just hope we can find a bargain center to replace one of them. Maybe even Mahinmi at a MUCH reduced price. Actually, I'd like to draft the C/PF from USC - Onyeka Okongwu. We'd really need to keep Bertans. That could be a really fun team.

F*ck me what a massive overpay.

Ernie?

No Wes. You're being a complete homer if you think that's a massive overpay. There's an enormous difference between Simmons and Beal - at both ends of the court, and Simmons hasn't even touched his ceiling. Rui is a complete disaster defensively and the only offensive skill he has is what no smart NBA team is looking for - the mid-range jumper. And the Wiz got both Bryant and Wagner for essentially nothing.

No need to bash Rui to help make your case for the trade. Need to give him a chance before going there...maybe, like Simmons, Rui also hasn't even touched his ceiling.

Oh..and be sure to tell Kawhi that his outstanding midrange jumper is useless. It's Simmons total lack of a midrange jumper that makes this trade an overpay.

[Ruzious]

F*ck me what a massive overpay.

Ernie?

No Wes. You're being a complete homer if you think that's a massive overpay. There's an enormous difference between Simmons and Beal - at both ends of the court, and Simmons hasn't even touched his ceiling. Rui is a complete disaster defensively and the only offensive skill he has is what no smart NBA team is looking for - the mid-range jumper. And the Wiz got both Bryant and Wagner for essentially nothing.

No need to bash Rui to help make your case for the trade. Need to give him a chance before going there...maybe, like Simmons, Rui also hasn't even touched his ceiling.

Oh..and be sure to tell Kawhi that his outstanding midrange jumper is useless. Its Simmons total lack of a midrange jumper that makes this trade an overpay.

You picked a really dumb fight, and I'm ending it here. I'm not playing this game with you. I didn't say anything different from what I've already said before about Rui. And It's beyond absurd to make any comparison whatsoever of Rui to Kawhi. Kawhi is dramatically better at a million things than Rui is. What an idiotic red herring to bring him up. You know what - next time you're thinking about responding to me - don't. Life's too short for me to put up with garbage like that.