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2020 Draft

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1041 » by payitforward » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:51 pm

I.e. in return for our #9? It's an offer worth considering, certainly.

The problem is that future assets are subject to discount -- i.e. a dollar today is worth more than the promise of a dollar a year from now. Ditto draft picks.

OTOH, in considering the trade, I don't think it matters whether we have lots of guards. For one thing, we don't have lots of young guards. For another, Ish will be expiring, John Wall is entering his 2d decade in the league, Robinson doesn't exactly exude upside, Napier is a terrific asset -- but as a backup, & Mathews has been a pleasant surprise but has a long way to go before he's established himself.

IOW, Wall & Beal are still the only guards in our "core."

So... where do you come down on the idea?
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1042 » by payitforward » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:58 pm

One more thought -- on the Bucks side of this. Donte DiVicenzo has looked just tremendous this year. Is Haliburton the same kind of "low-usage phenom" as he is?
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1043 » by doclinkin » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:43 pm

Ruzious wrote:Draft trade question for Pif or anyone else (or I could shorten it to just say draft trade question... nah), If the Bucks offer the Indiana pick (18 or 19?) and their 1st rounders for both 2021 and 2023 (realizing they're going to be late 1sts unless Giannis leaves), do you do it?

My thinking for the Bucks is - they do this if Haliburton's there. He's a perfect fit for them because he's a low usage phenom. He's basically a young George Hill, and Hill's fit in there wonderfully, but he's old. And a move like that is probably something Giannis would approve of - making him more likely to stay - which is THE key to their franchise. Also, they can buy 2nd round picks - probably less than 10 spots down from what would have been their 1st rounders. And having Hali on a rookie contract helps them in avoiding the lux tax.

But what about the Wiz? They already have Wall and Beal and Ish and Napier and Jerome Robinson and Mathews - not to mention Troy Brown possibly moving to guard at some point. We gots guards.


I don't think Tommy Sheppard does it. Tyrese Halliburton is an "Everybody Eats" type player. He passes, stays active on defense, has decent size for the position, rebounds well for his spot, can play on and off ball, hits free throws, takes smart shots in the flow of offense, and most importantly for Tommy's analytics guys: he hits three point shots.

BBIQ players are absolutely the sort of guy that Sheppard likes to collect. Bonga. Troy Brown. Low ego players who are active and play a team game. Napier. Ish. Even Bertans.

We can't bank on Napier or Bertans re-signing with us, and while we do have ball handlers, we are short in reliable back-ups behind Beal. If they think Halliburton can reliably hit an NBA 3 while guarded, then I think they would have no problem selecting him on Ball Smarts alone. (He's got the range, and knows when he is open, but at the next level his defenders will close the gaps quicker).

Personally I think future picks are undervalued. Especially from a team that is heavily invested in one star to carry the team. How often have the Bullets/Wizards cratered when their single all-star went under. I fully expect Coach Bud to patch together an excellent team no matter what, but as you say Giannis is the franchise. It's a lot for one player to carry, even a Freak like G. The work load can start to stack up.

That said I think I'd still take Halliburton. He'd be easy to cheer for. Instant veteran. Making players around him better. A gamer. He's a Golden State type player. And really the more I watch of his game, the more I think he'd be the ideal understudy for both Beal and Wall. The same argument above applies to us. We need someone who can share the court with our injured Wallstar and our high minute should-be-all-star Beal.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1044 » by Ruzious » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:19 am

payitforward wrote:One more thought -- on the Bucks side of this. Donte DiVicenzo has looked just tremendous this year. Is Haliburton the same kind of "low-usage phenom" as he is?

I think there are a lot of similarities - though I compare Haliburton more to a young George Hill - a little better than DDV.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1045 » by Ruzious » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:22 am

payitforward wrote:I.e. in return for our #9? It's an offer worth considering, certainly.

The problem is that future assets are subject to discount -- i.e. a dollar today is worth more than the promise of a dollar a year from now. Ditto draft picks.

OTOH, in considering the trade, I don't think it matters whether we have lots of guards. For one thing, we don't have lots of young guards. For another, Ish will be expiring, John Wall is entering his 2d decade in the league, Robinson doesn't exactly exude upside, Napier is a terrific asset -- but as a backup, & Mathews has been a pleasant surprise but has a long way to go before he's established himself.

IOW, Wall & Beal are still the only guards in our "core."

So... where do you come down on the idea?

Good question. It depends on who slides to the 18th pick. We could trade down more and get CCJ fave Stix Smith - maybe get another future 1st in that trade?
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1046 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:48 am

That's kind of an interesting idea, Ruz! Might be able to move the #19 & #37 to Boston for #26, #30 & #46.

@ #26, we would be likely to get one of: Vernon Carey, Josh Green, Theo Maledon, Desmond Bane or Tyrese Maxey.

@ #30, we would be likely to get one of Cassius Stanley, Paul Reed, Tyler Bey, Daniel Otoru or Leandro Bolmaro.

@ #46, we would be likely to get one of Killian Tillie, Xavier Tillman, Reggie Perry or Malachi Flynn.

To spread the picks positionally, maybe...

Vernon Carey, Tyler Bey & Malachi Flynn ?
Theo Maledon, Paul Reed & Xavier Tillman?
Josh Green, Daniel Otoru & Killian Tillie?
Tyrese Maxey, Leandro Bolmaro, & Reggie Perry?

& then also get those R1 picks next year & in '23.

Plenty of other ways to make the salad too. What would be your favorite assortment?
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1047 » by Ruzious » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:10 pm

payitforward wrote:That's kind of an interesting idea, Ruz! Might be able to move the #19 & #37 to Boston for #26, #30 & #46.

@ #26, we would be likely to get one of: Vernon Carey, Josh Green, Theo Maledon, Desmond Bane or Tyrese Maxey.

@ #30, we would be likely to get one of Cassius Stanley, Paul Reed, Tyler Bey, Daniel Otoru or Leandro Bolmaro.

@ #46, we would be likely to get one of Killian Tillie, Xavier Tillman, Reggie Perry or Malachi Flynn.

To spread the picks positionally, maybe...

Vernon Carey, Tyler Bey & Malachi Flynn ?
Theo Maledon, Paul Reed & Xavier Tillman?
Josh Green, Daniel Otoru & Killian Tillie?
Tyrese Maxey, Leandro Bolmaro, & Reggie Perry?

& then also get those R1 picks next year & in '23.

Plenty of other ways to make the salad too. What would be your favorite assortment?

I'm a big Josh Green fan, so if he's there at 26, he'd be my choice. It's interesting - there's a lot of depth with bigs - like Carey, Smith, Otoru, Stewart, Tillman, Tillie, Perry, etc.

Grant Riller is a player I really like. He's in the Lou Williams mold - a terrific 1 on 1 player. One player I'm surprised has seemed to dip is Jordan Nwora. I thought he was overrated before, but now he's underrated. Seems like he'll be a good value pick in the 2nd round. Oh, and pick 30 - if Pokusevski is there, I definitely take him. Take him at 26 if Green isn't there.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1048 » by pcbothwel » Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:26 pm

Ruzious wrote:Draft trade question for Pif or anyone else (or I could shorten it to just say draft trade question... nah), If the Bucks offer the Indiana pick (18 or 19?) and their 1st rounders for both 2021 and 2023 (realizing they're going to be late 1sts unless Giannis leaves), do you do it?

My thinking for the Bucks is - they do this if Haliburton's there. He's a perfect fit for them because he's a low usage phenom. He's basically a young George Hill, and Hill's fit in there wonderfully, but he's old. And a move like that is probably something Giannis would approve of - making him more likely to stay - which is THE key to their franchise. Also, they can buy 2nd round picks - probably less than 10 spots down from what would have been their 1st rounders. And having Hali on a rookie contract helps them in avoiding the lux tax.

But what about the Wiz? They already have Wall and Beal and Ish and Napier and Jerome Robinson and Mathews - not to mention Troy Brown possibly moving to guard at some point. We gots guards.


1) The Bucks already have their 2022 pick traded to the Cavs, so they cant trade their 2021 & 2023 w/o very creative and restrictive protects...
2) That said...No. Moving down 10 picks requires the equivalent of a 2021 pick in the 10-16 range.

That said... Here is an interesting team for us.
76ers: They clearly need to win over the next 3 years and are already loaded with picks/young players (Like Boston)
Trade 9 for 22 & 34 plus their 2021 or 2022 1st.

22: Tyler Bey, Nesmith, Josh Green
34: (Any above) or: Tre Jones, Desmond Bane, Paul Reed, Tillman
37: (Any above) or: Isaiah Stewart, Oturu, Tillie, Perry, Sylla

Wall / Ish / Napier
Beal / Bane / Mathews
Brown / Bonga / Bey
Rui / Bertans / Bey
Bryant / Wagner / Tillman

That team is Tough, athletic, young, defensive minded, and skilled.
plus we'd have two 1st in the HS draft of 2022.

PIF... You're Welcome :wink:
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1049 » by payitforward » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:27 pm

:) !!!!

But... Philly -- given that they have traded their own pick this year (#20, to the Nets), can they move their R1 pick next year? I don't think so.

It'd have to be their 2022 #1 -- that gets a somewhat steeper discount than a pick next year, hence I think they have to give a little more in the trade.

Plus... they have the #33 & the #35 pick this year, I believe (i.e. not the #34). So, it could be our #9 for the #22, #33 & #35 this year, plus their R1 pick in '22.

Now, let's get silly: assume we can trade that #35 & our #37 to Toronto for their #28. We still have 3 picks, still have the #22, but have the #33 instead of #34 -- & #28 instead of #37. IOW, we might do a little better.

22: Aaron Nesmith, Jalen Smith, Vernon Carey
(It's likely Nesmith is gone: so, pcb..., do you rank Smith/Carey here?)

28: (1 of the above 3, or...) Josh Green, Tyler Bey, Desmond Bane
(If only Nesmith is off the board, which of the 5 do you take here?)

33: (1 of the above 5, or...) Paul Reed, Daniel Otoru, Leandro Bolmaro, Xavier Tillman

Might wind up the same as your haul, pcbothwei, but might be better: we do have a bigger field of choice w/ the 2d & 3d of the picks.

What would be the best possible haul out of the above?
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