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2020 Draft

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#101 » by dangermouse » Tue Oct 8, 2019 5:36 am

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Quite the sequence, shame about the finish!

That is how the whole game felt to me, to be honest, and it wasnt just Melo. There was a lot of flash and not a lot of finishing.

Lamelo showed a great handle, all in all looking pretty good with the ball in his hands. Outside of that it was a little disappointing though, and he was most often played at shooting guard with Aaron Brooks playing the point, although he set up the offense more often than not.

His passing was on point. He only finished with 5 assists, but there was quite a few missed opportunities as in this sequence. Offensively he could have asserted himself a little more. He displayed a deadly floater in pre-season but I don't remember that coming out at all during this game. The team mostly ran horns to get him off screens and going downhill, however Brisbane seemed to have gameplanned for this, sagging off the worse shooter and clogging the lanes, disrupting the play and leading to difficult jumpers late in the clock.

Speaking of defense, this was the worst part of Lamelo's game. He ended with 4 steals and a block, which displayed his sneaky athleticism and go-go gadget arms. Those 4 steals came at the expense of playing off his man quite often, which led to some easy layups and dunks for the Brisbane bigs. (Speaking of Brisbane bigs, player of the game was Lamar Patterson, who looked like Draymond out there). He did however grab 10 boards, 8 of them defensive, displaying a knack for being in place to get them as well as athleticism to get there first and get above everyone else.

All in all, this may have just been first game jitters, and the team itself has a lot to improve on (rotation needs to tighten, defensive schemes aren't working, offensive plays are not very creative) and may just need some reps together (Brooks was a great veteran presence for Lamelo, but needs to figure out this league too). Melo in this game reminded me of a young Wall or rookie Lonzo more than his most recent comparison, Doncic (6/17 FG, including 0/5 from deep. Good passing with 5 assists to 0 turnovers - and would have been higher with better finishing. Great rebounding. Athletic plays on defense to grab a few passes, but ultimately negatively affected the team in this area).
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#102 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Oct 8, 2019 1:41 pm

Why James Wiseman might not be worth the No. 1 pick hype

James Wiseman was the nation’s top recruit for 2019 and sits atop many NBA Mock Drafts. A closer look reveals he may not be worth that level of praise

James Wiseman was the top-ranked recruit for 2019 on most sites and ESPN has pegged him to go No. 1 in the 2020 NBA Draft. Pretty much every informed member of Draft Twitter disagrees with those sentiments and most have him outside the top 10 of their Big Board.

At 7-foot-1 with a 7-foot-6 wingspan and skillful coordination/fluidity for a big man, Wiseman’s supporters dream about his ceiling as a scorer. Occasionally, he flashes a potent face-up game and long-range shooting. What curbs those flashes is actual production and abhorrent decision-making. Wiseman has the confidence of an outlier shot maker but lacks the shooting talent to warrant it. That dichotomy generates clips like these:



Spoiler:
He aspires to be a modern big with ball-handling, pull-up shooting and floor-spacing talents. He plays like one but it hasn’t been kind to his efficiency and exhibits discouraging self-awareness for a guy slated to go first overall in June.

There has to be some understanding of your own offensive strengths and Wiseman’s habits don’t suggest he knows who he truly is. In 21 EYBL games between April 2018 and July 2018, he averaged 15.2 points on 52.7 percent true shooting. Such low efficiency and raw scoring output is concerning for a player wielding NBA-caliber size and length. Take a look at how his efficiency compares to some other bigs:

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Across that same string of EYBL games, he went 56-of-101 (55.4 percent) from the free-throw line and 4-of-27 (14.8 percent) from 3-point range. Neither number suggests a forthcoming evolution.

One statistic from EYBL that supports Wiseman is 39 blocks in 21 games, implying a reputation as a solid rim-protector. To many, that’s exactly who the 18-year-old is on paper: a future defensive anchor and perennial All-Defensive Team member. That’s just not how I’ve seen it shake out on tape.

Wiseman certainly accumulates a healthy number of blocks, though it seems to originate from poor discipline and features an inability to stay vertical on contests. He’ll pounce on subtle shot fakes or unnecessarily pursue blocks, sometimes to the detriment of his team.



What’s most concerning is how often Wiseman jumps against dudes significantly smaller than him. He has a 7-foot-6 wingspan and 9-foot-3.5 standing reach. Rarely should he leave his feet and yet, it regularly occurs when guards or wings enter the paint. It’s another example of him mitigating his size advantage. Generally, stars maximize their physical tools but Wiseman, on both ends, seems to do the opposite at an alarming rate.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#103 » by prime1time » Tue Oct 8, 2019 4:58 pm

dangermouse wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
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Quite the sequence, shame about the finish!

That is how the whole game felt to me, to be honest, and it wasnt just Melo. There was a lot of flash and not a lot of finishing.

Lamelo showed a great handle, all in all looking pretty good with the ball in his hands. Outside of that it was a little disappointing though, and he was most often played at shooting guard with Aaron Brooks playing the point, although he set up the offense more often than not.

His passing was on point. He only finished with 5 assists, but there was quite a few missed opportunities as in this sequence. Offensively he could have asserted himself a little more. He displayed a deadly floater in pre-season but I don't remember that coming out at all during this game. The team mostly ran horns to get him off screens and going downhill, however Brisbane seemed to have gameplanned for this, sagging off the worse shooter and clogging the lanes, disrupting the play and leading to difficult jumpers late in the clock.

Speaking of defense, this was the worst part of Lamelo's game. He ended with 4 steals and a block, which displayed his sneaky athleticism and go-go gadget arms. Those 4 steals came at the expense of playing off his man quite often, which led to some easy layups and dunks for the Brisbane bigs. (Speaking of Brisbane bigs, player of the game was Lamar Patterson, who looked like Draymond out there). He did however grab 10 boards, 8 of them defensive, displaying a knack for being in place to get them as well as athleticism to get there first and get above everyone else.

All in all, this may have just been first game jitters, and the team itself has a lot to improve on (rotation needs to tighten, defensive schemes aren't working, offensive plays are not very creative) and may just need some reps together (Brooks was a great veteran presence for Lamelo, but needs to figure out this league too). Melo in this game reminded me of a young Wall or rookie Lonzo more than his most recent comparison, Doncic (6/17 FG, including 0/5 from deep. Good passing with 5 assists to 0 turnovers - and would have been higher with better finishing. Great rebounding. Athletic plays on defense to grab a few passes, but ultimately negatively affected the team in this area).

I think it's pretty safe to say barring injury that LaMelo will be a top 5. I watched the game and came away blown away by his current skill level. It's easy to say what he does or doesn't do, but let's remember that he literally just turned 18. And he's playing in a league that is better than college. To be as skilled as he currently is passing and ball-handling at his size is simply incredible. His defense does need to improve, but when you are scouting an 18-year-old you make allowances. What do you think his potential is? Who is the last player at 18 who had his combination of ball-handling and passing?
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#104 » by prime1time » Tue Oct 8, 2019 5:01 pm

At a potential 6'7, 6'8 with ball-handling and passing like Lamelo has, I'd probably have taken him 3rd in last year's draft. I think he's going to be a stud. And when you have guys who pass the way he does, it creates an unselfish culture. Adding him to the WIz would be a godsend. Now, obviously you have to consider how his father plays into everything but from a pure basketball perspective, I'd have no problems drafting LaMelo and not looking back. You take him along slowly because he's so young, but in 3/4 years he's going to be a force.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#105 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Oct 8, 2019 5:15 pm

prime1time wrote:I think it's pretty safe to say barring injury that LaMelo will be a top 5. I watched the game and came away blown away by his current skill level. It's easy to say what he does or doesn't do, but let's remember that he literally just turned 18. And he's playing in a league that is better than college. To be as skilled as he currently is passing and ball-handling at his size is simply incredible. His defense does need to improve, but when you are scouting an 18-year-old you make allowances. What do you think his potential is?


I gotta say, I don't believe for a minute that a pro ball league in Australia is better/more competitive than the ACC or the Big 10 for basketball.

Top conferences in the NCAA are filled with future NBA stars.

Australia is home to guys who couldn't cut it in the NBA...or who never had a realistic chance. Obviously they're bigger, stronger and more polished. But that's about the extent of it.


Spoiler:
prime1time wrote:Who is the last player at 18 who had his combination of ball-handling and passing?


Darius Garland
Luka Doncic
Trae Young
Lonzo Ball


Bold Statement Alert: LaMelo certainly looks like an NBA player. But not nearly a transcendent one. A realistic ceiling for LMB is D'Angelo Russell.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#106 » by Ruzious » Tue Oct 8, 2019 7:47 pm

I'm not that high on Lamelo. He'll make the highlight reel passes and dribbles, but I think his shooting's overrated, he's only an average athlete, looks limited defensively and strength-wise. I think he has some talent, but... I don't think he's a guy you build around and win with. Not to mention below average hair.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#107 » by prime1time » Tue Oct 8, 2019 10:23 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
prime1time wrote:I think it's pretty safe to say barring injury that LaMelo will be a top 5. I watched the game and came away blown away by his current skill level. It's easy to say what he does or doesn't do, but let's remember that he literally just turned 18. And he's playing in a league that is better than college. To be as skilled as he currently is passing and ball-handling at his size is simply incredible. His defense does need to improve, but when you are scouting an 18-year-old you make allowances. What do you think his potential is?


I gotta say, I don't believe for a minute that a pro ball league in Australia is better/more competitive than the ACC or the Big 10 for basketball.

Top conferences in the NCAA are filled with future NBA stars.

Australia is home to guys who couldn't cut it in the NBA...or who never had a realistic chance. Obviously they're bigger, stronger and more polished. But that's about the extent of it.


Spoiler:
prime1time wrote:Who is the last player at 18 who had his combination of ball-handling and passing?


Darius Garland
Luka Doncic
Trae Young
Lonzo Ball


Bold Statement Alert: LaMelo certainly looks like an NBA player. But not nearly a transcendent one. A realistic ceiling for LMB is D'Angelo Russell.

I have to admit, I haven't been following the league for a long time. But they have stars from college that are playing in this league. Melo Trimble, for example, plays in this league. Aaron Brooks plays on the same team as Lamelo. He averaged 17.7 a game when he was a senior. What could those guys do in college now? Also, maybe at the top of the ACC and the top of the Big 10 it's comparable. But on average IMO this league is better. You put a 24-year-old Melo Trimble in college and he'll be feasting. Heck, freshman Melo Trimble was feasting.

I need to see more Doncic, but from what I saw most of his assist came in the structure of the pick and roll. Lamelo, granted I need to see more, finds guys during the natural flow of the offense. On a limited sample size, Garland averaged 2.6 assists a game so no. Trae Young yes, but he's also 6'2. Lonzo, no he doesn't have the ball handling. A good answer would be Ben Simmons. The common thread with all the guys you listed though...they are all top 5 picks.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#108 » by dangermouse » Wed Oct 9, 2019 2:33 am

prime1time wrote:What do you think his potential is? Who is the last player at 18 who had his combination of ball-handling and passing?


I think i'll wait a few more games before making a definite call on how good he could be. That was his first professional game in a league he needs to get used to (even Brooks looked a bit stunned at some of the foul calls, but thats the NBL for ya).
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#109 » by prime1time » Wed Oct 9, 2019 5:04 am

As further evidence of the competition in this league, I give you Scotty Hopson. He plays on the same team as RJ Hampton. He's 30 years older now. When he was in college he averaged 17 a game. Another guy Brandon Ashley from Arizona. He was a McDonald's All-American and played 3 years at Arizona. He's 26 now. If these guys still played in college they'd easily be the best players in the Nation. We need to give these leagues that take top-level college players a lot more seriously.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#110 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Oct 9, 2019 11:38 am

prime1time wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:I gotta say, I don't believe for a minute that a pro ball league in Australia is better/more competitive than the ACC or the Big 10 for basketball.

Australia is home to guys who couldn't cut it in the NBA...or who never had a realistic chance.



But they have stars from college that are playing in this league.

Melo Trimble, for example, plays in this league.
Aaron Brooks plays on the same team as Lamelo.




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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#111 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:31 am

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#112 » by Illmatic12 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:18 pm

Early look at Anthony Edwards.. hard to get a feel of his decision-making instincts but certainly looks to have shot-creation ability to go with this physical tools:

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#113 » by Illmatic12 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:29 pm

Catching up on some recent LaMelo Ball highlights from the NBL and I'm stunned man.. his game is so fundamentally sound now . He's probably the prospect who would most fit what the Wizards are trying to do, he's a very high IQ player and can play all over the floor in 3 guard lineups. He's also much younger than his class (for instance Cole Anthony is almost 20) so his upside is tantalizing.

If Ball is there for us to draft, I hope Leonsis doesn't let his dislike for Lavar cause him to block the pick.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#114 » by Shoe » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:28 am

Illmatic12 wrote:Catching up on some recent LaMelo Ball highlights from the NBL and I'm stunned man.. his game is so fundamentally sound now . He's probably the prospect who would most fit what the Wizards are trying to do, he's a very high IQ player and can play all over the floor in 3 guard lineups. He's also much younger than his class (for instance Cole Anthony is almost 20) so his upside is tantalizing.

If Ball is there for us to draft, I hope Leonsis doesn't let his dislike for Lavar cause him to block the pick.


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He's going to be a monster in the PnR. His ability to hit the 3 off the dribble is gonna get the defense showing a lot of hedges and traps, but he's so tall he can still execute the pass over the defender. Or he can punish an aggressive big and split the defense like Beal. Looks like the #1 pick.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#115 » by Illmatic12 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:10 am

I'm trying not to get ahead of myself but as of now I'd take him #1.. he's a 6'7 Trae Young, it's that simple. How do you not take that?

Ball is not perfect - in fact his defense needs a LOT of work, and his shooting form still needs to be adjusted. But he has so many aspects of his game that cannot be taught, and is so young that he can still be molded into a system.

Will be watching Cole Anthony and Anthony Edwards closely , those are the only other prospects I'd look at with the top pick. Have to get a closer look at Wiseman but as of now he's not in the #1 conversation.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#116 » by Shoe » Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:13 am

If we fall in the lottery and Tommy Sheppard wants to stick with international prospects i'd take Killian Hayes. Wizards are missing that lefty who can keep defenses on their toes and flip the weak/strong sides of the half court - like a Manu or Thunder Harden. Flashy, raw, creative, and turnover prone.

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#117 » by prime1time » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:31 am

Illmatic12 wrote:I'm trying not to get ahead of myself but as of now I'd take him #1.. he's a 6'7 Trae Young, it's that simple. How do you not take that?

Ball is not perfect - in fact his defense needs a LOT of work, and his shooting form still needs to be adjusted. But he has so many aspects of his game that cannot be taught, and is so young that he can still be molded into a system.

Will be watching Cole Anthony and Anthony Edwards closely , those are the only other prospects I'd look at with the top pick. Have to get a closer look at Wiseman but as of now he's not in the #1 conversation.

I was watching a game of his earlier today. He's legit. When a prospect is good, it doesn't take that long to figure out. Dude's passing is just superb. His ball-handling skills combined with his size and length will make him a nightmare. Does he have areas where he can improve? Yes. But to be that skilled at 18 is just crazy. If the Wizards can get him I'd be over the moon. Imagine him when his body fills out and his jump shot is refined.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#118 » by Shoe » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:22 pm

Biggest question of the draft imo is whether any of the freshman SF -
Achiuwa
McDaniels
Whitney
Watford
Moore
show out enough to be a consensus high lottery pick. Everyone wants a tantalizing wing, but right now it seems people are really low on this crop. All described as poor technique and weak half court offense.

Not really a promising draft class in the early outlook. Scottie Lewis turns 20 in March. Cole Anthony turns 20 in May. Achiuwa turns 21 next September. Edwards and Ball will still be 18 when drafted. Wiseman a young 19. Top 3 are the best physical gifts + talent + youth.

I would avoid anyone who can't play off ball. We still have Wall for the long haul and Troy Brown Jr. plus Beal is going to run the offense along with some sets featuring Rui and Bonga as the creators. So outside the Top 3:
Early no's to -
Cole Anthony - he'll have a long career on multiple NBA teams, will have to see his game, could be wrong
Theo Maledon - don't need a Ricky Rubio
Ayo Dosunmu - like him but I don't know about his spot up shooting or his bend around off ball screens
Tyrese Maxey - could be a wait and see but he's a little small
Tyrese Haliburton - like him but he's more of a luxury pick
Tre Jones - unless we make the playoffs he's not on the radar
Potentially RJ Hampton - I get the vibe that he wants the ball in his hands

Big question marks to -
Isaiah Stewart - Kyle o Quinn, undersized and needs to have advanced post game to be worth a high selection, has to hit the spot up deep twos and threes, although he could be the rebounder we need
Amar Sylla - not the next Giannis, depends on his projected growth whether he'll be that unique in the NBA, I like that he's left handed

Early yes -
Deni Avdija - 6'8, can initiate the offense, can push the ball upcourt after a rebound, able to hit a 3 off the dribble handoff or pnr, pull up 3s off the bounce too, big enough for a compelling post game, the charisma to not be intimidated by other pros, another unique international player for the roster, can be a true SF in a Wall/Beal/Deni/Rui/Bryant line up, also Deni and Rui is a great duo name wise
Killian Hayes - 6'5, left handed, a visually aggressive stance attacking the defense similar to Rui's aesthetic, combo guard but talented passer, will be 18 when drafted, great first name
Nico Mannion - sort of a novelty imo right now but could be that 3rd guard in the rotation to play off Wall or Beal or Troy Brown, quick jumper and first step
Khalil Whitney - don't know about his game but "The Dragon" is the best sobriquet in the draft
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#119 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:48 pm

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#120 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:14 pm

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