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2020 Draft

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1061 » by Shoe » Sun Aug 2, 2020 5:06 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Ruzious wrote:I think Poku is the biggest wildcard in the draft - and we need to consider him - especially if we get unlucky in the draft lottery and move to 10. Apparently, he's measured at 7' barefoot in the EuroLeague, and that would translate to 7'1.25 in shoes, and 7'2 wouldn't be an unreasonable guesstimate for what he'll end up being - since he's 18 (and barely eligible for the draft - by 6 days) - and those arms don't look short. His size is somewhat similar to what Porz was at that age. It's a matter of him filling out and gaining strength and how soon he develops in the NBA. But I do remember seeing Pau Gasol as a rookie with Memphis - painfully thin and more of a post player than Poku - he turned out ok. Alex Len - came to MD at barely over 200 lbs - came out at probably 250. Poku's upside makes him a legit consideration for the Wiz.


At %50 3pt shooting, and being a Euro guy, and us maybe losing Bertans, I fully expect Pokusevski is on Tommy's radar. At that height his shot not getting blocked, he can catch and shoot off motion and play the same role Davis does. Yes he will get shoved around a bit on defense, but this front office doesn't really seem to focus on D so much. If he passes and moves without the ball and hits a three from NBA range at a good clip then hey he's got a role here. Anything more that he develops is a bonus.


The problem is he's the youngest player in the draft going into a season considered Wall and Beals last chance together. Sheppard only has one year left on his contract too. This lack of job security might have contributed to him drafting a 21 year old and 22 year old (over Bol) last year.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1062 » by doclinkin » Sun Aug 2, 2020 5:34 pm

Shoe wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
Ruzious wrote:I think Poku is the biggest wildcard in the draft - and we need to consider him - especially if we get unlucky in the draft lottery and move to 10. Apparently, he's measured at 7' barefoot in the EuroLeague, and that would translate to 7'1.25 in shoes, and 7'2 wouldn't be an unreasonable guesstimate for what he'll end up being - since he's 18 (and barely eligible for the draft - by 6 days) - and those arms don't look short. His size is somewhat similar to what Porz was at that age. It's a matter of him filling out and gaining strength and how soon he develops in the NBA. But I do remember seeing Pau Gasol as a rookie with Memphis - painfully thin and more of a post player than Poku - he turned out ok. Alex Len - came to MD at barely over 200 lbs - came out at probably 250. Poku's upside makes him a legit consideration for the Wiz.


At %50 3pt shooting, and being a Euro guy, and us maybe losing Bertans, I fully expect Pokusevski is on Tommy's radar. At that height his shot not getting blocked, he can catch and shoot off motion and play the same role Davis does. Yes he will get shoved around a bit on defense, but this front office doesn't really seem to focus on D so much. If he passes and moves without the ball and hits a three from NBA range at a good clip then hey he's got a role here. Anything more that he develops is a bonus.


The problem is he's the youngest player in the draft going into a season considered Wall and Beals last chance together. Sheppard only has one year left on his contract too. This lack of job security might have contributed to him drafting a 21 year old and 22 year old (over Bol) last year.



What makes you think based on Ted's track record that Sheppard has anything to worry about regarding his job security. I think they picked the players they did based on their analytics and players attitude. Character. In discussions with coaches and contacts around the league. This was why they passed on Bol: he had terrible intangibles and bad reports by coaches etc. By all accounts Tommy is attempting to assemble a group of guys who a) willingly chuck it from outside and b) have a good attitude. Everything else seems to be secondary.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1063 » by Shoe » Sun Aug 2, 2020 7:09 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Shoe wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
At %50 3pt shooting, and being a Euro guy, and us maybe losing Bertans, I fully expect Pokusevski is on Tommy's radar. At that height his shot not getting blocked, he can catch and shoot off motion and play the same role Davis does. Yes he will get shoved around a bit on defense, but this front office doesn't really seem to focus on D so much. If he passes and moves without the ball and hits a three from NBA range at a good clip then hey he's got a role here. Anything more that he develops is a bonus.


The problem is he's the youngest player in the draft going into a season considered Wall and Beals last chance together. Sheppard only has one year left on his contract too. This lack of job security might have contributed to him drafting a 21 year old and 22 year old (over Bol) last year.



What makes you think based on Ted's track record that Sheppard has anything to worry about regarding his job security. I think they picked the players they did based on their analytics and players attitude. Character. In discussions with coaches and contacts around the league. This was why they passed on Bol: he had terrible intangibles and bad reports by coaches etc. By all accounts Tommy is attempting to assemble a group of guys who a) willingly chuck it from outside and b) have a good attitude. Everything else seems to be secondary.


Good point, although I don't think Sheppard or any gm feels comfortable with a one year contract. If he wants an immediate starter at #9 I imagine 21 year old Saddiq Bey is being considered. He can start the forward opposite Rui day one and can create his offense by himself which is something TS wants.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1064 » by Ruzious » Mon Aug 3, 2020 2:28 pm

Shoe wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
Shoe wrote:
The problem is he's the youngest player in the draft going into a season considered Wall and Beals last chance together. Sheppard only has one year left on his contract too. This lack of job security might have contributed to him drafting a 21 year old and 22 year old (over Bol) last year.



What makes you think based on Ted's track record that Sheppard has anything to worry about regarding his job security. I think they picked the players they did based on their analytics and players attitude. Character. In discussions with coaches and contacts around the league. This was why they passed on Bol: he had terrible intangibles and bad reports by coaches etc. By all accounts Tommy is attempting to assemble a group of guys who a) willingly chuck it from outside and b) have a good attitude. Everything else seems to be secondary.


Good point, although I don't think Sheppard or any gm feels comfortable with a one year contract. If he wants an immediate starter at #9 I imagine 21 year old Saddiq Bey is being considered. He can start the forward opposite Rui day one and can create his offense by himself which is something TS wants.

Yeah, SBey's 3 point shooting is something that could really help the team in his rookie year, and they could likely trade down and get him - and then pick Bane - who could be the team's 6th man - also spreading the floor for Wall and Beal. After watching Houston I think set a record for attempted 3's in a non-O/T game last night to beat Milwaukee... wow, it makes things so much easier when you have 3 point marksmen everywhere. Jeff Green was their biggest guy. :o
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1065 » by Shoe » Tue Aug 4, 2020 2:06 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Shoe wrote:
doclinkin wrote:

What makes you think based on Ted's track record that Sheppard has anything to worry about regarding his job security. I think they picked the players they did based on their analytics and players attitude. Character. In discussions with coaches and contacts around the league. This was why they passed on Bol: he had terrible intangibles and bad reports by coaches etc. By all accounts Tommy is attempting to assemble a group of guys who a) willingly chuck it from outside and b) have a good attitude. Everything else seems to be secondary.


Good point, although I don't think Sheppard or any gm feels comfortable with a one year contract. If he wants an immediate starter at #9 I imagine 21 year old Saddiq Bey is being considered. He can start the forward opposite Rui day one and can create his offense by himself which is something TS wants.

Yeah, SBey's 3 point shooting is something that could really help the team in his rookie year, and they could likely trade down and get him - and then pick Bane - who could be the team's 6th man - also spreading the floor for Wall and Beal. After watching Houston I think set a record for attempted 3's in a non-O/T game last night to beat Milwaukee... wow, it makes things so much easier when you have 3 point marksmen everywhere. Jeff Green was their biggest guy. :o


Beal/Bane/Bey/Bertans/Bryant lineup would be a lite Rockets. The only trade down partner that can get us 2 firsts I see is Boston.

We need a PG and I can see Brooks value Kira Lewis Jr. and Devon Dotson over Haliburton and the rest. He does not like TBJ as PG, didn't like Sato there.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1066 » by payitforward » Tue Aug 4, 2020 3:24 pm

Above all, I hope we don't draft any player, because "we need a 'x' or 'y' but do whatever we think works to get us the maximum player-value out of this draft.

That said, of course you can't simply look at "potential;" it's a multi-variant calculation. Thus, while Poku certainly has tons & tons of talent, he'd be a hell of a reach at #9 or 10. & if we seriously think someone would take him in that range... all the more reason to trade down.

Similarly, although Saddiq Bey does a bunch of things well & may turn out to be an excellent NBA player, there just isn't enough there outside of his 3-point shooting to make me go for him that high either.

I definitely do not see how Tommy or anyone could value either Lewis or Dotson, or even both of them together, over Haliburton. If the latter is there at #9/10, I'd be hard pressed to pass on him. Ditto Okongwu.

For sure, Boston, with 18 & 26, is the most obvious candidate for such a trade. If they absolutely love someone at #9, maybe we get more than those 2 picks?

Here are 10 players: Aaron Nesmith, Jalen Smith, Desmond Bane, Tyler Bey, Paul Reed, Josh Green, Zeke Nnaji, Leandro Bolmaro, & Theo Maledon. There is no question that at least 7 of those guys will be there at 18 & at least 3 of them will be there at 26. Ditto both Lewis & Dotson.

For that matter, it wouldn't be a big surprise if Saddiq Bey were available at 18 & Poku at 26. If not, someone else gets pushed down. I haven't even mentioned Vernon Carey, who looks likely to be there at our #36-7.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1067 » by bsilver » Tue Aug 4, 2020 4:45 pm

I don't understand why Vernon Carey has fallen in most mock drafts. He's got excellent size and strength and will overpower most centers he will face. Can even shoot.

I believe he's a top 10 talent, and will end up a better choice than whoever the Wizards pick at 9. If we could trade down and get him I wouldn't hesitate. However, there's no telling how far he'll fall in the draft.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1068 » by Ruzious » Tue Aug 4, 2020 5:16 pm

Anything's possible, but I'd be shocked if Poku's there at 26. Even being as skinny as he is, he's a special talent for someone 7'1 to 7'2. If he fills out well, he could end up being the best player in this draft, imo.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1069 » by payitforward » Tue Aug 4, 2020 5:56 pm

@ bsilver -- I agree about Vernon Carey. Maybe the shadow of Jahlil Okafor has fallen over him? But, his numbers are significantly better than Okafor's were, & he is much more versatile as well. Plus, no one's talking about him as a high pick. Most mocks have him in R2, which makes no sense at all to me. If we got him at our #36-7... wow!

@ Ruz -- For sure, Poku could end up being the best player in this draft. Or the 10th best, 20th best, 40th best, or whatever. The problem is attaching any kind of probability % to any of those outcomes. Certainly, it'd be hard attaching a high % to the chances of best outcome. Too many independent variables all of which have to go right.

To bring these themes together, Vernon Carey is exactly 10 months older than Poku. Right now, one on one, I'd say Carey would eat Poku up. How many things have to go right for Poku over the next 10 months for him to become a player who -- were he going against the Vernon Carey of today -- would be even odds with him?

A slightly different angle on Poku: the most common comparison is to Porzingis. That guy is just finishing his 5th NBA season. What's he done to justify having been the 4th pick in the draft? My answer would be "nothing."
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1070 » by Ruzious » Tue Aug 4, 2020 6:43 pm

payitforward wrote:@ Ruz -- For sure, Poku could end up being the best player in this draft. Or the 10th best, 20th best, 40th best, or whatever. The problem is attaching any kind of probability % to any of those outcomes. Certainly, it'd be hard attaching a high % to the chances of best outcome. Too many independent variables all of which have to go right.

In case you have any doubt, we don't agree on Poku. 8-)
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1071 » by Shoe » Tue Aug 4, 2020 10:47 pm

payitforward wrote:To bring these themes together, Vernon Carey is exactly 10 months older than Poku. Right now, one on one, I'd say Carey would eat Poku up. How many things have to go right for Poku over the next 10 months for him to become a player who -- were he going against the Vernon Carey of today -- would be even odds with him?


Poku would run Carey out of the gym. Image

A half court 1 on 1 should advantage Carey although Poku is a 7 footer and unlike most NCAA bigs he can walk and chew bubblegum at the same time.
But more importantly in 5 on 5 play his handle and passing is just so far above Carey.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1072 » by payitforward » Wed Aug 5, 2020 12:29 am

Actually... you are right, of course. Poku is a tremendous prospect. & he's extremely young. If all goes well, he will be a terrific player. I mean if you look at these highlights -- -- it'd be hard to think otherwise.

Then again, one of the links on that youtube page of highlights is: . Watch those highlights, & it would be hard to imagine the player being anything other than dominant.

Highlights typically (as in these cases) show a player dominating the competition. Carey dominated in the highest level NCAA ball. As a Freshman.

& Poku's highlights show him doing that too; no doubt about it, he was a tremendous force with the Olympiakos B team. Not the A team, the B team. So when we see him dominating, that's what he's dominant over. Notice that there are no fans in the gym?

Both of these guys will be facing much, much, much tougher competition in the NBA. You don't know, & I don't know, if one or both of them will succeed at that level. One thing we do know: no one is suggesting taking Vernon Carey with our #9 or 10 pick.

Hey, I'm not anti-Poku, & I'm not Vernon's uncle either! I hope they are both great. Sorry, tho, I don't see taking Poku @#9/10 as making any sense whatever.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1073 » by Shoe » Wed Aug 5, 2020 4:24 am

payitforward wrote:


Im not anti Carey I was just pointing out that Poku has elements in his game that are hard to match too. I don't think he's a future mvp like Giannis but its hard to find players that tall with handles, creativity, soft passing touch. One guy comes to mind and it would likely be best case scenario
Spoiler:
Image

Carey has the frame to bully in the NBA. If he develops a 3 point shot and if he can excel passing out of the post he will be a special player. Its hard to judge everything a guy can do in college as they have to play within a system. I don't think Bam even averaged an assist at Kentucky.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1074 » by Ruzious » Wed Aug 5, 2020 12:59 pm

I think the biggest reason Carey falls are the comps to Okafor. The NBA is really frowning on centers that don't defend well. He's clearly strictly a center, and he doesn't have the feet to defend well. Very good scorer and rebounder, but he doesn't fit what the NBA is currently looking for. Maybe Okafor's "failure" is a big reason for that. Of course, Okafor wouldn't be considered a failure - except for the fact that he was overrated by all the "experts" when he was at Duke. Honestly, I think Carey hurt himself by going to Duke, because that made it convenient to compare him to Okafor. From what I saw, Duke was a bad defensive team this season - but not just because of Carey - but he gets the blame.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1075 » by Ruzious » Wed Aug 5, 2020 1:08 pm

Shoe wrote:
payitforward wrote:


Im not anti Carey I was just pointing out that Poku has elements in his game that are hard to match too. I don't think he's a future mvp like Giannis but its hard to find players that tall with handles, creativity, soft passing touch. One guy comes to mind and it would likely be best case scenario
Spoiler:
Image

Carey has the frame to bully in the NBA. If he develops a 3 point shot and if he can excel passing out of the post he will be a special player. Its hard to judge everything a guy can do in college as they have to play within a system. I don't think Bam even averaged an assist at Kentucky.

Agreed. Poku legitimately moves like an NBA 3. He can run to a spot, stop on a dime, change directions, and be in position to shoot. You just don't see players that tall who move like him - none - not even Porzingis. Does he need to fill out, mature, and to continue developing his skills? Yes. I'd be surprised if he doesn't end up being one of the top 10 players in this draft.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1076 » by Ruzious » Thu Aug 6, 2020 8:38 pm

Ruzious wrote:Realistically, we could move up as much as 2 to 7th in the draft. Only the Hornets (1.5 games worse) and Bulls (2 games worse) have a realistic chance of winning enough to move down in the draft below us. No way the Knicks (3.5 worse) or Piston (4.5 worse) are going to catch us. And then who knows what happens in the lottery.

Wrong. Dude, you need to learn the rules. Apparently, even if the Wiz fall below Charlotte and/or Chicago - they can't move up from the 9th seed in the lottery. Their only chance of moving up from 9 is to get a top 4 pick in the lottery - and there's roughly a 25% chance that they get one of the top 4. The lottery is in 2 weeks - on August 20th.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1077 » by payitforward » Sat Aug 8, 2020 1:48 pm

Right, dude -- you were wrong: & that's just not right! Or... am I wrong about that?
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1078 » by Fischella » Sun Aug 9, 2020 1:39 pm

Vernon Carey is basically Kanter, if you are into that, go for it, but he provides no real value unless you pick him mid 2nd, he is a guy who should get drafted in the 40s
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1079 » by Fischella » Sun Aug 9, 2020 1:41 pm

Ruzious wrote:I think the biggest reason Carey falls are the comps to Okafor. The NBA is really frowning on centers that don't defend well. He's clearly strictly a center, and he doesn't have the feet to defend well. Very good scorer and rebounder, but he doesn't fit what the NBA is currently looking for. Maybe Okafor's "failure" is a big reason for that. Of course, Okafor wouldn't be considered a failure - except for the fact that he was overrated by all the "experts" when he was at Duke. Honestly, I think Carey hurt himself by going to Duke, because that made it convenient to compare him to Okafor. From what I saw, Duke was a bad defensive team this season - but not just because of Carey - but he gets the blame.

Nobody would be high on Carey regardless, he is just too short on too many aspects, not tall enough, doesn't play big, lacks length, has passing flashes but overall just not there, same with shooting, same with recognition

if he were like a third better on everything he would be similar to Domas (well, prob more like 50% better as a passer at least but the rest) the way he is, he is likely to just be Kanter, at best
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1080 » by Fischella » Sun Aug 9, 2020 1:43 pm

Poku is the youngest prospect in the draft, almost born in 2002 and he is still growing, he is 7'2 in shoes, with elite length and instincts, he can shoot on the move and moves like a guard, it's completely normal that he hasn't filled out yet, he is a top5 prospect in this class without a doubt

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