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2020 Draft

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1541 » by doclinkin » Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:44 pm

nate33 wrote:
doclinkin wrote:That said, as far as diamond in the rough type players, we have one on the squad. As Isaac Bonga adds a bit of muscle over the offseason and next few years, I think we will see an upgrade in play at the tweener wing-forward position.

Bonga's on/off numbers are really impressive.

Bertans also has great on/off numbers, but part of that was due to him playing on a second unit that Brooks tended to stack in an effort to outplay the opposition's second unit. Bonga, on the other hand, put up very good on/off numbers while on the starting team going against the opposition's best players. Indeed, he was the only player on the roster with a non-negative on-court +/-.

On/off numbers are a bit noisy so I don't want to read too much into it, but they really do suggest that Bonga makes a real difference out there, presumably on the defensive end.


The mini offseason helped him. He added about 10 lbs of muscle and said he had started to figure out his nutrition better. Looked a little bigger on court in the bubble, and his on/off numbers while in the bubble were even more ridiculous. If he keeps adding size, strength, and confidence in his shot, then he could be an incredibly versatile player for us. He can handle and pass like a PG, defends well already, rebounds willingly and well, hits 80% from the FT line. As his range/3FG% increases he becomes not just a glue guy but a weapon. Fortunately adding muscle and range are 2 things you can reliably develop in your NBA career, and while his face looks like he's 60yrs old, he was our youngest player last year. To be playing precocious basketball already promises good things from this young cat.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1542 » by doclinkin » Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:49 pm

nate33 wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
nate33 wrote:I seriously doubt the Wizards will trade down. That's just not their MO.

If Okongwu is gone and they are unwilling to pay the asking price to trade up for him, then I expect them to go ahead and draft Vassell or Okoru at #9, and then add a veteran defensive big in free agency.


Tommy still thinks like a scout. He may be interested in tried and true players at an affordable price, but I fully expect he has favorites on the squads of other teams who he researched coming up. BRef is behind a pay wall now, but I would search for players with fewer than 3 years experience playing efficiently behind established all-stars at the same position, looking for those diamonds in the rough. Looking for bigs with good rates on steals, defensive boards, assists, even more so than blocks.

Just skimming draft picks in 2016 and 2017, and Tony Bradley looks interesting. He's the backup center for Utah and has monstrous per minute numbers (15.5 points, 14.5 boards, 1.8 blocks per 36 on a TS% of .681) while playing just 685 total minutes behind Gobert. He's till got one year left on his rookie deal though, so a trade would be necessary.


There you go. That's the guy. He showed up in one of my various screens for productive defensive freshmen if I recall correctly.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1543 » by NatP4 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:53 pm

Sup guys. It’s been awhile. What’s happening with the wizards? Who do we want in the draft? When is the draft? Can you guys fill me in on where things stand roster wise? What direction the team is going? I don’t think I have watched a game since that triple overtime game against the suns. Any players on the move? Where is John Wall at with his rehab?
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1544 » by nate33 » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:37 pm

NatP4 wrote:Sup guys. It’s been awhile. What’s happening with the wizards? Who do we want in the draft? When is the draft? Can you guys fill me in on where things stand roster wise? What direction the team is going? I don’t think I have watched a game since that triple overtime game against the suns. Any players on the move? Where is John Wall at with his rehab?

Obviously, we don't really know what the Wizards will do, we're just a bunch of clowns on a message board speculating. But here is the low down as far as we know:

- Wall looks really good in practice. He is in great physical shape, very lean and mean, and is playing 5 on 5 basketball. Sheppard has said that his outside shot is greatly improved. They clearly want to try and win now while Wall and Beal have some prime years left. I don't think they'll trade youth for vets and sacrifice the future to win now, but I do think they may add vets to shore up the roster.

- They still plan to resign Bertans. Most believe that the main competition for him will come from Atlanta, who have an insane amount of cap room. Estimates are that he will cost $15-16M a year, but who the hell knows?

- Isaac Bonga looks like he may emerge as a legitimate core piece for the future. He has gotten much stronger and looked physically more imposing during "the bubble". He is the best defender on the team and is getting good enough at the corner 3 that teams can't just ignore him.

- There is talk of moving Brown to more of a backup PG role rather than as a role playing forward.

- Tommy Sheppard has signaled that they definitely want a defensive big in the draft. Okongwu would be the perfect fit, but the consensus around here is that he'll probably go in the 5-7 range and won't last until #9. If he is there, we will draft him. If he is gone, most think we will draft one of the pretty good defensive forwards that are likely to be available (Vassell or Okoro), but maybe we will reach for the next best defensive big (Achiuwa?) or trade up or down.

- After signing Bertans, there will be a little luxtax room left over for one more free agent. My guess is that we acquire a defensive big man, particularly if we don't draft one. I just don't know if it will be a youngish guy to develop (like Bryant), or if it will be an aging veteran mentor type.

- Some 2nd round favorites discussed include: Xavier Tillman, Malachi Flynn, Desmond Bane, Vernon Carey and Paul Reed. If PIF was in charge, he would trade down for more later picks, and repeat the process over and over until we had the #55, 56, 57, 58, 59 and 60th pick in the draft :D .
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1545 » by payitforward » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:08 pm

Love the analysis in this post, nate -- it's on the money, succinct, & well-written.

You, like most here, continue to hit the space-bar twice after a period -- as if the Internet were a typewriter. But other than that there isn't a single mis-step in what you write here. In fact, except when you choose to amuse yourself by disagreeing with me for no particular reason, I'd say your basketball-related posts are quite regularly at this same high level. (Politics we can leave aside -- except that I hope you & everyone here has read the NY Times this morning: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/10/16/opinion/donald-trump-worst-president.html. The piece is entitled "Corruption, Anger, Chaos, Incompetence, Lies, Decay" -- which I'd say is a reasonable summary of the disgustingly ugly reign of this hideous creep....

...where was I? Oh yeah, the only place the below goes wrong is in its last sentence -- not just in this draft, nate! Properly executed, a few simple moves -- moves only I know -- & we could have picks 55-60 in every single draft going forward! :D

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Sup guys. It’s been awhile. What’s happening with the wizards? Who do we want in the draft? When is the draft? Can you guys fill me in on where things stand roster wise? What direction the team is going? I don’t think I have watched a game since that triple overtime game against the suns. Any players on the move? Where is John Wall at with his rehab?

Obviously, we don't know what the Wizards want, we're just a bunch of clowns on a message board speculating. But here is the low down:

- Wall looks really good in practice. He is in great physical shape, very lean and mean, and is playing 5 on 5 basketball. Sheppard has said that his outside shot is greatly improved. They clearly want to try and win now while Wall and Beal have some prime years left. I don't think they'll trade youth for vets and sacrifice the future to win now, but I do think they may add vets to shore up the roster.

- They still plan to resign Bertans. Most believe that the main competition for him will come from Atlanta, who have an insane amount of cap room. Estimates are that he will cost $15-16M a year, but who the hell knows?

- Isaac Bonga looks like he may emerge as a legitimate core piece for the future. He has gotten much stronger and looked physically more imposing during "the bubble". He is the best defender on the team and is getting good enough at the corner 3 that teams can't just ignore him.

- There is talk of moving Brown to more of a backup PG role rather than as a role playing forward.

- Tommy Sheppard has signaled that they definitely want a defensive big in the draft. Okongwu would be the perfect fit, but the consensus around here is that he'll probably go in the 5-7 range and won't last until #9. If he is there, we will draft him. If he is gone, most think we will draft one of the pretty good defensive forwards that are likely to be available (Vassell or Okoro), but maybe we will reach for the next best defensive big (Achiuwa?) or trade up or down.

- After signing Bertans, there will be a little luxtax room left over for one more free agent. My guess is that we acquire a defensive big man, particularly if we don't draft one. I just don't know if it will be a youngish guy to develop (like Bryant), or if it will be an aging veteran mentor type.

- Some 2nd round favorites discussed include: Xavier Tillman, Malachi Flynn, Desmond Bane, Vernon Carey and Paul Reed. If PIF was in charge, he would trade down for more later picks, and repeat the process over and over until we had the #55, 56, 57, 58, 59 and 60th pick in the draft :D .
Remember -- if you don't like the post above: blame Doc not me.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1546 » by Error Afflalo » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:39 pm

SIAP, but is anyone else concerned about this? I have no clue why Vassell and/or his trainers thought this was a good idea.

Read on Twitter


Is it enough to scare you guys away at 9?
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1547 » by Jimmy Recard » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:23 am

Wonder what it’ll take to move up a couple spots to nab Okongwu? I know people are saying this is not the draft give up assets and move up in, but I really want this kid. Exactly what we need.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1548 » by WizarDynasty » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:41 am

energy 6'9 explosive
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1549 » by The Consiglieri » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:40 pm

Shoe wrote:So everyone and payitfoward : what do we think Tommy Sheppard and the front office will do? Instead of best possible picks and trade downs.
I think Avdija would be who he wanted but will be gone. I think his goal is to compete now so he could target junior Saddiq Bey or on the flip side swing for the international fences taking Poku. TS and Beal have repeatedly said they think Rui is a 3 so in their projection that opens up a front court spot next to Bryant.


Me as well. I enjoy speculating, and putting are markers on "our guys" so to speak, and the moves we would prefer, so we can defend our own various takes.

But I often think people get stuck in the minutiae of their own takes, and players, and neglect to pay attention to most likely scenarios and targets, and what is most likely to happen so we can hash out what we project it to be, and how we feel about it, before it happens. In my experience, my team drafts who I want them to draft about 3-5% of the time, at best, and it's only higher if we're picking at the very top of a given draft. This is why I find some of this pointless. Set your markers, then talk about the most likely scenarios. Just my preference though, few seem to share it, but I'd certainly love to see mixed into this thread, just baseline takes on what they think the team will do, maybe even how they tier out guys likely, or having a chance to be there where they pick. How would they think the Wiz rank say, the top 10, how do you think the wiz rank the top 4-5 guys likely to be there and fitting their preference?
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1550 » by payitforward » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:49 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:Precious Achiuwa is all i have to say. His build, energy level, foot speed, energy, will revitalize this team. He is what the wizards have lacked for a longtime. He has perfectly formed leg structure, he remind of a ben wallace, with offensive ability. You have to take him if you are the wizards, he is like a horace grant, or dennis rodman essential piece that you need for your team that this team hasn't had for decades.

Once I read your post in the trade thread, I was pretty sure you'd post here in support of Achiuwa.

Would you rank him over Okongwu? I.e. if he dropped to us.

If you go back over the last 5 or so drafts, who did you support & how have those players done in the league? Truth be told, I am not remembering you posting in previous drafts threads (that might just be me, of course) -- which makes me think you must be very high on Achiuwa indeed! Tho... anyway no doubt of that given your comparisons to Ben Wallace, Horace Grant & Dennis Rodman.

While you're at it -- who else do you like in this draft? C'mon WD -- we don't see enough of you: jump in with both feet!

Who do you like in R2?
Who do you think has a chance to be a bargain pick-up late in the draft -- or even undrafted?

Counting on you, ok?
Remember -- if you don't like the post above: blame Doc not me.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1551 » by WizarDynasty » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:32 pm

good loyal players
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1552 » by payitforward » Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:20 pm

Disagree with you about last year. Of course, if Rui becomes an outstanding player, I may turn out to be wrong.

Yet, to take only one example, Brandon Clarke may have the best "second leap" in the history of humankind! :) & if Precious, or Okongwu for that matter, puts up numbers anywhere near those Clarke put up as a rookie, it'll be an incredible feat! :)

How about finding us that R2 bargain, man!! Have you looked at Woodard? &

How about my candidate to pick up undrafted, Nathan Knight? ;t=161s
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1553 » by pcbothwel » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:07 pm

Woodard: Ehhh. I think he ends up over drafted by a team looking for a plug and play 3 & D player due to positional value and lack of depth in the draft. That said, not that impressed. Yes, he can defend pretty well and has solid measurements … But I see a really low ceiling due to IQ/Awareness/vision along with his shot.
Im glad he improved from his terrible freshman year FT/3% numbers of 58/27, but I dont think he projects as a particularly efficient player, I dont see "Lockdown" defender, he doesnt rebound that well... And the fact that his TOV% is double that of his AST% is a MAJOR red flag, especially considering he isnt a big.

Reminds a couple years ago of Ben Bentil.
Sure, you could squint and see RHJ... but RHJ was a better defender who lived at the FT line.

The poor vision, rebounding, and AST:TOV show a real dearth of IQ. I actually think an apt comp is a poor mans Keita Bates Diop. Everyone saw his measurables, solid defense, and C&S 3% and thought he would be a plug and play guy out of Ohio State. I remember a lot of people thinking he would sneak into the 1st, but ended going #48. I see the same for Woodard.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1554 » by WizarDynasty » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:14 pm

woodard good hustle.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1555 » by payitforward » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:27 am

pcbothwel wrote:Woodard: Ehhh. I think he ends up over drafted ...due to ...lack of depth in the draft....

What "lack of depth in the draft?" I'd say there's lack of outstanding quality near the top of the draft, but there is excellent depth... well down into R2.

Of course... I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.
pcbothwel wrote:The poor vision, rebounding, and AST:TOV show a real dearth of IQ. I actually think an apt comp is a poor mans Keita Bates Diop. Everyone saw his measurables, solid defense, and C&S 3% and thought he would be a plug and play guy out of Ohio State. I remember a lot of people thinking he would sneak into the 1st, but ended going #48. I see the same for Woodard.

I have no idea whether Woodard has a shot in the NBA, but I don't understand the above at all.

For starters, Woodard is a SG; what does KB-D have to do with him? I sure didn't think he was likely to be picked in R1, btw -- I don't remember anyone thinking that.

&, given Woodard's a wing, how is he a bad rebounder? As to AST:TOV (a stat rollup that has no meaning at all that I can see), compare his tot Achiuwa's! Any thoughts?

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not Woodard's grandpa trying to defend him! He's a guy who'll be picked well into R2 & get a chance. In any case, no big prediction about Robert Woodard!
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1556 » by Dat2U » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:43 am

Error Afflalo wrote:SIAP, but is anyone else concerned about this? I have no clue why Vassell and/or his trainers thought this was a good idea.

Read on Twitter


Is it enough to scare you guys away at 9?


I never wanted him in the first place. First lottery pick I scouted that I was immediately iffy on. He gave me Josh Childress vibes prior to the jump shot change. I wouldn't want him in the mid-1st now either.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1557 » by WizarDynasty » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:53 am

good players hard to find.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1558 » by pcbothwel » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:57 am

payitforward wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:Woodard: Ehhh. I think he ends up over drafted ...due to ...lack of depth in the draft....

What "lack of depth in the draft?" I'd say there's lack of outstanding quality near the top of the draft, but there is excellent depth... well down into R2.

Of course... I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.
pcbothwel wrote:The poor vision, rebounding, and AST:TOV show a real dearth of IQ. I actually think an apt comp is a poor mans Keita Bates Diop. Everyone saw his measurables, solid defense, and C&S 3% and thought he would be a plug and play guy out of Ohio State. I remember a lot of people thinking he would sneak into the 1st, but ended going #48. I see the same for Woodard.

I have no idea whether Woodard has a shot in the NBA, but I don't understand the above at all.

For starters, Woodard is a SG; what does KB-D have to do with him? I sure didn't think he was likely to be picked in R1, btw -- I don't remember anyone thinking that.

&, given Woodard's a wing, how is he a bad rebounder? As to AST:TOV (a stat rollup that has no meaning at all that I can see), compare his tot Achiuwa's! Any thoughts?

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not Woodard's grandpa trying to defend him! He's a guy who'll be picked well into R2 & get a chance. In any case, no big prediction about Robert Woodard!


1) Sorry, I meant Wing depth... as we have covered at length, Bigs and PGs appear to be plentiful in the 25-40 range. Wings, not so much.

2)Woodard: Ugghhh, He played the 3 in college and profiles as a Wing. He's not particularly quick, doesnt handle the ball well, and is the same size/bigger than Bey (Both of them), Nwora, Deandre Hunter, Grant Williams, Anunoby, etc... I cant think of anyone with his profile thats a SG.

AST:TOV - Ok... He averages 75% more Turnovers than Assist. Please point me in the direction of an NBA player with those numbers... please.

And Im not sure what Precious has to do with this. His turnovers are a concern for me as well....soooo
That said, his turnovers are especially concerning as a wing. There are elite bigs that have more turnovers than assist like Gobert and Embiid. Wings... Not so much
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1559 » by prime1time » Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:00 am

Dat2U wrote:
Error Afflalo wrote:SIAP, but is anyone else concerned about this? I have no clue why Vassell and/or his trainers thought this was a good idea.

Read on Twitter


Is it enough to scare you guys away at 9?


I never wanted him in the first place. First lottery pick I scouted that I was immediately iffy on. He gave me Josh Childress vibes prior to the jump shot change. I wouldn't want him in the mid-1st now either.

He didn't change his shot. He was just joking around at the end of practice from what I heard.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#1560 » by DCZards » Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:51 am

pcbothwel wrote:
AST:TOV - Ok... He averages 75% more Turnovers than Assist. Please point me in the direction of an NBA player with those numbers... please.

And Im not sure what Precious has to do with this. His turnovers are a concern for me as well....soooo
That said, his turnovers are especially concerning as a wing. There are elite bigs that have more turnovers than assist like Gobert and Embiid. Wings... Not so much


One of the knocks on Precious Achiuwa is that he too often tried to handle the ball and/or create for himself at Memphis...neither of which he does very well. That's almost certainly the reason for his high turnover #s.

It's very unlikely that he'll be doing much of that in the NBA, especially if he's drafted by the Zards where Wall and Beal will dominant the ball.

Of course, there's always a chance that Precious improves his ballhandling and ability to create for himself. He reportedly does have a quick first step.

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