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2020 Draft

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#881 » by Jamaaliver » Wed May 13, 2020 10:15 pm

2020 NBA Draft Big Board

5. Devin Vassell, G/F 6’7, Florida State, 19 years old



It’s reductive to say that Vassell is the best three-and-D player in this draft, even if it’s true. The best team defender in this draft, Vassell was Florida State’s unquestioned leader and one of the best and most consistent players in the ACC. He’s a surprisingly adept pull-up shooter, particularly from the midrange, and uses his length exceptionally well to contest shots and grab offensive rebounds. He ranks higher than most other three-and-D prospects because of the potential he has to break out offensively in time, along with his overall general mastery of team defense. He’s way beyond everyone else this year in that regard.
Dime

Sam Vecenie wrote:I tend to really push wings up my draft board for similar reasons...it’s just so, so hard to find these types of players for cheap on the market. All things being equal in terms of talent, I’ll almost always default to selecting the wing.

I think Vassell’s the best bet to be a two-way wing out of this group. The most important thing I want from wings who aren’t necessarily elite-level shot-creators is the ability to knock down shots. And Vassell is an extremely high-level shooter. He hit 41.5 percent from 3 this past season after hitting 41.9 percent as a freshman. He also really developed into a guy who can knock down shots off the dribble last year. His feel for the game and shot IQ is really smart. He doesn’t play like a goofball out on the court, which is a real positive. He knows how to play within a team construct.

Then on defense, he’s an exceptional help and off-ball defender. He’s a great positional defender that does great work getting into passing lanes and rotating down and contesting near the hoop. Then as an on-ball defender, he’s really good laterally and also does an excellent job of timing his contests away from the basket. Overall, he’s just coming from such a place of strength on both sides of the floor toward what the NBA needs right now.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#882 » by Ruzious » Thu May 14, 2020 5:55 pm

I dunno. Remember Chris Singleton when we drafted him out of FLaSt - he had an excellent defensive rep and underwhelming offense. There's some similarities. Best case scenario comp for Vassell is Danny Green, imo.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#883 » by Ruzious » Thu May 14, 2020 7:13 pm

Just a hypothetical draft trade dilemma: Suppose the Wiz are picking 9th, and the draft is up to the 8th pick - where Charlotte is about to pick Haliburton, and available at 9 will be Cole Anthony and Isaac Okoro. Charlotte (MJ?) calls and offers to switch picks if you give them pick # 37. MJ has a liking for Okoro and would be just as happy with him as he would Hali. Do you say yes? Hold out for one of the Martin brothers? Just say no? Trading down is not an option (Pif shudders).
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#884 » by payitforward » Thu May 14, 2020 7:18 pm

doclinkin wrote:At the top of the draft I'd like Okongwu. A defensively aware high-motor front court player who reacts quickly and gets up the floor in both directions. He'd be a good fit running with a Wall Squad and with spacing from Beal and Bertans he will be dangerous inside the arc when players overload the perimeter.

But I'd be confident if I could get two of:

Vernon Carey -- underrated freshman Big, who has savvy heads-up feel for the game and is a battering ram on offense. Has defensive positional instincts that most young bigs take forever to learn.

Tyler Bey -- Adding a multi-tool SF who can defend the perimeter and inside the arc. His defensive wetware was operating with faster bandwidth than any of his opponents in college. Quick up and down, finishing with the lob or in the open court, adding range to his game, hard worker with upside. I expect his outside shot to improve with our shooting coaches.

Xavier Tillman --smart tough Big. Leader with defensive smarts and passing chops from the top of the Key, added a three point shot this range. Veteran experience allows quicker adjustment to the league.

Adding IQ, love of the game, toughness, hard work, would make this team a tough out. We need great talent, but some years if you can't snatch the transcendent athlete but instead add attitude and savvy and self motivation you set a foundation for long term success and constant improvement.

I love this, doc -- best of all, it seems quite possible. In fact, I wouldn't say that getting all 3 of them is out of the question, to tell the truth.

Say we did trade our #9 to Boston for their #s 17 & 26: we would be able to pick Carey at #17, Bey #26 & Tillman with the R2 pick we have from Chicago.

To push the point -- possibly beyond what's practical -- I would really like a shot at Malachi Flynn as well. Will Bey be on the board at #30? If so, make the trade for Boston's #17, #30 & #46 & take the same guys plus Flynn at #46.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#885 » by Ruzious » Thu May 14, 2020 7:30 pm

It is odd how Carey got underrated. He was rated the 5th best player in his HS class and had a terrific season - statistically - in a top conference. But a lot of folks decided he was a poor defender and that centers aren't important, so he's fallen quite a bit in mocks.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#886 » by payitforward » Thu May 14, 2020 7:41 pm

Ruzious wrote:I dunno. Remember Chris Singleton when we drafted him out of FLaSt - he had an excellent defensive rep and underwhelming offense. There's some similarities. Best case scenario comp for Vassell is Danny Green, imo.

Well... in fairness -- Vassell's a lot better offensive player than Chris Singleton! :) On top of which, in addition to missing his shots & shooting a low % from the FT line, Singleton turned the ball over a lot. One look at his numbers said "do not draft" to me.

That said, if we are talking about Devin Vassell @ #9... no. Trade down.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#887 » by Ruzious » Thu May 14, 2020 8:12 pm

payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:I dunno. Remember Chris Singleton when we drafted him out of FLaSt - he had an excellent defensive rep and underwhelming offense. There's some similarities. Best case scenario comp for Vassell is Danny Green, imo.

Well... in fairness -- Vassell's a lot better offensive player than Chris Singleton! :) On top of which, in addition to missing his shots & shooting a low % from the FT line, Singleton turned the ball over a lot. One look at his numbers said "do not draft" to me.

That said, if we are talking about Devin Vassell @ #9... no. Trade down.

Agreed on all points. And Vassell's got a very low turnover rate. I think he'll go right around the end of the lotto.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#888 » by payitforward » Thu May 14, 2020 8:28 pm

Ruzious wrote:It is odd how Carey got underrated. He was rated the 5th best player in his HS class and had a terrific season - statistically - in a top conference. But a lot of folks decided he was a poor defender and that centers aren't important, so he's fallen quite a bit in mocks.

Interesting point... maybe he's being dragged down by the memory of Jahlil Okafor?

Okafor was rated #1 in his HS class, had a good season at Duke, was drafted high, then failed -- & was definitely not a good defender.

Off the numbers, I'd rate Carey as a significantly better player. Okafor had an amazing TS%, but Carey outscored him significantly, does shoot the 3 at least a little bit, got to the line way more than Okafor & posted a far better FT% as well. They turned the ball over the same per 40 minutes, but Carey was way higher usage. Carey significantly out-rebounded Okafor as well. The one advantage Okafor did have was that he committed fewer fouls.

If Vernon Carey is available at #17, for example, I'd call him a very good bet.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#889 » by payitforward » Fri May 15, 2020 2:25 am

This big board:
Jamaaliver wrote:Dime


along with https://theathletic.com/1808864/2020/05/13/hollingers-nba-draft-top-20-plus-sleepers-the-guys-id-be-willing-to-bet-on/

present a view of prospects that is really quite different from nbadraftroom's mock.

Ditto https://dknation.draftkings.com/2020/5/13/21256871/nba-mock-draft-2020-prospects-list-warriors-cavaliers-hawks-timberwolves-lamelo-ball-james-wiseman

I'm not sure I can remember such drastically different views of a year's draft prospects.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#890 » by doclinkin » Fri May 15, 2020 3:33 am

payitforward wrote:This big board:
Jamaaliver wrote:Dime


along with https://theathletic.com/1808864/2020/05/13/hollingers-nba-draft-top-20-plus-sleepers-the-guys-id-be-willing-to-bet-on/

present a view of prospects that is really quite different from nbadraftroom's mock.

Ditto https://dknation.draftkings.com/2020/5/13/21256871/nba-mock-draft-2020-prospects-list-warriors-cavaliers-hawks-timberwolves-lamelo-ball-james-wiseman

I'm not sure I can remember such drastically different views of a year's draft prospects.


No Tournament. No combine. No Europlayoffs. Incomplete NCAA season. The casual observer has to rely on scout assessments and the few games where prospects faced each other. Without the crucible of March Madness you don’t get to see whether players’ will-to-fight matches their purported talent level. It’s even more guesswork with less footage and conventional wisdom.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#891 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri May 15, 2020 5:48 am

Okongwu is the best pick. He's at least an all star one day.

It would be shrewd to add FA LiAngelo Ball if Okongwu is the pick, as they played together at Chino Hills HS.



doclinkin wrote:At the top of the draft I'd like Okongwu. A defensively aware high-motor front court player who reacts quickly and gets up the floor in both directions. He'd be a good fit running with a Wall Squad and with spacing from Beal and Bertans he will be dangerous inside the arc when players overload the perimeter.

But I'd be confident if I could get two of:

Vernon Carey -- underrated freshman Big, who has savvy heads-up feel for the game and is a battering ram on offense. Has defensive positional instincts that most young bigs take forever to learn.

Tyler Bey -- Adding a multi-tool SF who can defend the perimeter and inside the arc. His defensive wetware was operating with faster bandwidth than any of his opponents in college. Quick up and down, finishing with the lob or in the open court, adding range to his game, hard worker with upside. I expect his outside shot to improve with our shooting coaches.

Xavier Tillman --smart tough Big. Leader with defensive smarts and passing chops from the top of the Key, added a three point shot this range. Veteran experience allows quicker adjustment to the league.

Adding IQ, love of the game, toughness, hard work, would make this team a tough out. We need great talent, but some years if you can't snatch the transcendent athlete but instead add attitude and savvy and self motivation you set a foundation for long term success and constant improvement.


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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#892 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri May 15, 2020 5:49 am

Mentioned Vassell way back in January. Another solid prospect.

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#893 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri May 15, 2020 5:51 am

Nah, i knew Singleton was a bum.

That was the same year Faried came out, along with Kawhi Leonard.

The Wizards really screwed that draft of taking Jan Vesely. Booker was a hit but at a cost.

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#894 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri May 15, 2020 5:53 am

Trade down and get Jalen Smith plus another pick.
Ruzious wrote:Just a hypothetical draft trade dilemma: Suppose the Wiz are picking 9th, and the draft is up to the 8th pick - where Charlotte is about to pick Haliburton, and available at 9 will be Cole Anthony and Isaac Okoro. Charlotte (MJ?) calls and offers to switch picks if you give them pick # 37. MJ has a liking for Okoro and would be just as happy with him as he would Hali. Do you say yes? Hold out for one of the Martin brothers? Just say no? Trading down is not an option (Pif shudders).


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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#895 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri May 15, 2020 5:54 am

The best draft the Wizards can have would be to get Carey and Jalen Smith
payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:It is odd how Carey got underrated. He was rated the 5th best player in his HS class and had a terrific season - statistically - in a top conference. But a lot of folks decided he was a poor defender and that centers aren't important, so he's fallen quite a bit in mocks.

Interesting point... maybe he's being dragged down by the memory of Jahlil Okafor?

Okafor was rated #1 in his HS class, had a good season at Duke, was drafted high, then failed -- & was definitely not a good defender.

Off the numbers, I'd rate Carey as a significantly better player. Okafor had an amazing TS%, but Carey outscored him significantly, does shoot the 3 at least a little bit, got to the line way more than Okafor & posted a far better FT% as well. They turned the ball over the same per 40 minutes, but Carey was way higher usage. Carey significantly out-rebounded Okafor as well. The one advantage Okafor did have was that he committed fewer fouls.

If Vernon Carey is available at #17, for example, I'd call him a very good bet.


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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#896 » by payitforward » Fri May 15, 2020 2:21 pm

Ruzious wrote:Just a hypothetical draft trade dilemma: Suppose the Wiz are picking 9th, and the draft is up to the 8th pick - where Charlotte is about to pick Haliburton, and available at 9 will be Cole Anthony and Isaac Okoro. Charlotte (MJ?) calls and offers to switch picks if you give them pick # 37. MJ has a liking for Okoro and would be just as happy with him as he would Hali. Do you say yes? Hold out for one of the Martin brothers? Just say no? Trading down is not an option (Pif shudders).

That's too much to jump a single spot. Still, a lot depends on who went in the first 7 slots. Especially b/c I'm not as 120% convinced about Okoro as some others are.

If I really wanted the trade, my counter would be #9 + our R2 pick for #8 + Charlotte's 2021 R2 pick. But, I would be doubtful even about that trade unless I could buy either the #33 or #35 pick from Elton Brand.

You raise an interesting question about the Martin twins, Cody & Caleb. They both had pretty good rookie seasons overall. Caleb scored better; Cody did everything else better.

The only other asset that might be in play is the #56 pick this year, which Charlotte owns from Boston. Does that get us Malachi Flynn?

Great challenge, Ruz -- what would you do?
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#897 » by Ruzious » Fri May 15, 2020 3:04 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Okongwu is the best pick. He's at least an all star one day.

It would be shrewd to add FA LiAngelo Ball if Okongwu is the pick, as they played together at Chino Hills HS.



doclinkin wrote:At the top of the draft I'd like Okongwu. A defensively aware high-motor front court player who reacts quickly and gets up the floor in both directions. He'd be a good fit running with a Wall Squad and with spacing from Beal and Bertans he will be dangerous inside the arc when players overload the perimeter.

But I'd be confident if I could get two of:

Vernon Carey -- underrated freshman Big, who has savvy heads-up feel for the game and is a battering ram on offense. Has defensive positional instincts that most young bigs take forever to learn.

Tyler Bey -- Adding a multi-tool SF who can defend the perimeter and inside the arc. His defensive wetware was operating with faster bandwidth than any of his opponents in college. Quick up and down, finishing with the lob or in the open court, adding range to his game, hard worker with upside. I expect his outside shot to improve with our shooting coaches.

Xavier Tillman --smart tough Big. Leader with defensive smarts and passing chops from the top of the Key, added a three point shot this range. Veteran experience allows quicker adjustment to the league.

Adding IQ, love of the game, toughness, hard work, would make this team a tough out. We need great talent, but some years if you can't snatch the transcendent athlete but instead add attitude and savvy and self motivation you set a foundation for long term success and constant improvement.


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As much as I like Okongwu is how much I don't like Ball - but Dat's a big Ball fan - so to speak.

I'm with you on Okongwu.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#898 » by Ruzious » Fri May 15, 2020 3:11 pm

payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Just a hypothetical draft trade dilemma: Suppose the Wiz are picking 9th, and the draft is up to the 8th pick - where Charlotte is about to pick Haliburton, and available at 9 will be Cole Anthony and Isaac Okoro. Charlotte (MJ?) calls and offers to switch picks if you give them pick # 37. MJ has a liking for Okoro and would be just as happy with him as he would Hali. Do you say yes? Hold out for one of the Martin brothers? Just say no? Trading down is not an option (Pif shudders).

That's too much to jump a single spot. Still, a lot depends on who went in the first 7 slots. Especially b/c I'm not as 120% convinced about Okoro as some others are.

If I really wanted the trade, my counter would be #9 + our R2 pick for #8 + Charlotte's 2021 R2 pick. But, I would be doubtful even about that trade unless I could buy either the #33 or #35 pick from Elton Brand.

You raise an interesting question about the Martin twins, Cody & Caleb. They both had pretty good rookie seasons overall. Caleb scored better; Cody did everything else better.

The only other asset that might be in play is the #56 pick this year, which Charlotte owns from Boston. Does that get us Malachi Flynn?

Great challenge, Ruz -- what would you do?

What I would do would depend on what day of the week it is - and sometimes I'm not sure what day of the week it is nowadaze. I'd probably go with the trade trying to get Caleb. I liked him a little better than Cody when they were in college.

But I really like your idea of buying a 2nd rounder if we trade our 2nd rounder - especially after seeing CCJ's guy Jalen Smith slipping to the 2nd round on some recent mocks.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#899 » by dckingsfan » Fri May 15, 2020 3:20 pm

Statement: less research is being done on the draft this year - I have no proof of that but that is where I am starting.

Hence, there will be even less picking the players in the right order.

Therefore trading down in this draft makes even more sense than in "normal" drafts.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#900 » by payitforward » Fri May 15, 2020 7:18 pm

Ruzious wrote:...I'd probably go with the trade trying to get Caleb. I liked him a little better than Cody when they were in college.

But I really like your idea of buying a 2nd rounder if we trade our 2nd rounder - especially after seeing CCJ's guy Jalen Smith slipping to the 2nd round on some recent mocks.

Some of the best players in every draft go in the last 10 of R1 & in R2. Or go undrafted.

Take a look at Toronto: of the 18 guys who played for them this season, 15 of them fit that description.

Moreover, the 11 guys taken from 4-14 in the lottery are not a better group than the 16 guys taken from 15-30. &, not to pull punches, if you think they are you are wrong. Period.

Since a pick in that first group gets you two picks in the second group, how hard is it to understand why I want to trade down.

(Further note: in that first group, the 6guys taken from 4-9 are not better than the 5 guys taken 10-14.)
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