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2020 Draft

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#901 » by payitforward » Fri May 15, 2020 7:36 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Statement: less research is being done on the draft this year - I have no proof of that but that is where I am starting.

Hence, there will be even less picking the players in the right order.

Therefore trading down in this draft makes even more sense than in "normal" drafts.

Interesting -- I don't know why you think less research is being done. Do you just mean that there's less data to work with? Since the season was cut short? & of course way fewer occasions to interview players in person.

But, there won't be any fewer interviews. They'll just be done via Zoom or FaceTime or the like. & I wonder if there'll be fewer workouts for teams -- those too will often be reviewed online (mostly b/c of the difficulties arranging travel).

So, maybe it's not "less research" but "less good information" out of the research?

As to 'picking the players in the right order," please point to a single draft, any year you like, where the players were picked "in the right order" after the 3d pick. Anywhere near the right order for that matter.

There isn't one.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#902 » by dckingsfan » Fri May 15, 2020 8:44 pm

payitforward wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Statement: less research is being done on the draft this year - I have no proof of that but that is where I am starting.

Hence, there will be even less picking the players in the right order.

Therefore trading down in this draft makes even more sense than in "normal" drafts.

Interesting -- I don't know why you think less research is being done. Do you just mean that there's less data to work with? Since the season was cut short? & of course way fewer occasions to interview players in person.

But, there won't be any fewer interviews. They'll just be done via Zoom or FaceTime or the like. & I wonder if there'll be fewer workouts for teams -- those too will often be reviewed online (mostly b/c of the difficulties arranging travel).

So, maybe it's not "less research" but "less good information" out of the research?

As to 'picking the players in the right order," please point to a single draft, any year you like, where the players were picked "in the right order" after the 3d pick. Anywhere near the right order for that matter.

There isn't one.

Yep, your language is "more" :D better - less data and then less research against less data (or it could be more research against less data).

Example all of the draft measurements and drills. You actually make an interesting (I think you are implying it) point, maybe the phycological measurements are actually more important and those could be discovered better over repeated zoom meetings.

I think implied that the draft never goes in the right order. I am "thinking" (always dangerous) that it will be in even less of the right order.

Now, you could say that makes it possible that a high pick will be spot on - and you would be right. But I am speculating (and nothing more) that possibly some of the better players slide more in this year's draft more than they would have in previous drafts (guess we will know if that is accurate in ten years or so). If that is the case (of which I have absolutely no hard data) then trading down would be wise.

I would love the recording of the zoom meeting where a scout is trying to explain this to Tommy... :lol:
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#903 » by payitforward » Sat May 16, 2020 12:37 am

The thing is... the relationship between the order of how good players turn out to be & the order in which they are picked is pretty close to random from pick #4 through the end of the R1 -- every year.

I have no idea why people are so pointlessly attached to high picks -- as if they gave a team access to the best prospects. Picks 1-3 there is some correlation; after that... none. Zero.

Here's a draft at random, 2008. In fact, this one I'll take from 2-end of the lottery. & then we'll look at later picks:

Michael Beasley, O.J. Mayo, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love, Danilo Gallinari, Eric Gordon, Joe Alexander, D.J. Augustin, Brook Lopez, Jerryd Bayless, Jason Thompson, Brandon Rush & Anthony Randolph.

13 players. Out of which
4 complete busts -- guys who basically had no NBA career at all: O.J. Mayo, Joe Alexander, Jason Thompson & Anthony Randolph.
3 bad-to-meh players -- guys you can pick up pretty much any time if for some reason you need one of them, hence no reason to waste a draft pick on one of them -- certainly not a high draft pick! (Beasley, Bayless, Rush)
3 ok players -- have had pretty good careers & are good at something (Gordon, Augustin, Lopez)
3 outstanding players (Westbrook, Love, Gallinari)

That is the absolute top of the draft (aside from the #1 pick). Here's who went from #21-26: Ryan Anderson, Courtney Lee, Kosta Koufos, Serge Ibaka, Nicolas Batum & George Hill.

Then came R2, where 5 of the first 7 picks were better than more than 1/2 of those 13 I listed above: Nikolas Pekovic, DeAndre Jordan, Mario Chalmers, Omer Asik & Luc Mbah a Moute.

2009 was, if anything, even worse. Ditto 2010. 2011 was worse than all those. 2012 wasn't much better.... You starting to get my point? "less research" couldn't make the pick order less like the actual order of how good players were.

The only way you could really do worse is via "pin the tail on the donkey" -- which we know, because it was the method Ernie Grunfeld used.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#904 » by Jamaaliver » Wed May 20, 2020 3:43 am

Can Onyeka Okongwu be the next Bam Adebayo or Draymond Green?



Okongwu has the tools to play a very specific, and very valuable, role at the next level: A ball-screen switching, shot-blocking, lob-catching center. Put another way, he has all the warning signs of being the next Bam Adebayo.

The thing that immediately stands out when watching Okongwu’s tape is his explosiveness. He has what I like to call Go Get It ability. No matter where the lob is thrown, no matter how much arc is put on that floater, Okongwu can Go Get It. He stands 6-foot-9 with a wingspan that is reportedly in the 7-foot-2 range and a vertical that is … let’s just say high.

This gets to the core of what will make him a valuable piece on an NBA roster. On the defensive side of the ball, Okongwu averaged 3.5 blocks per 40 minutes as a freshman, showing an impressive ability to protect the rim from the weakside of the floor. It’s not just the blocks, however. He understands how to be a presence around the basket. In this clip, you’ll see Okongwu shed a seal, scare the driver off going up to the rim and stay on his feet until the shot is taken. He can go vertical and contest at the rim, and he also blocked a surprising number of jumpers for a player that didn’t spend much time on the perimeter.
Spoiler:
That, however, is only half of what makes him so intriguing as a defender, because Okongwu has been proven to be quite adept at moving his feet out on the perimeter. It will be different defending NBA point guards, but locking up good college guards on switches is impressive for a 245 pound freshman that turned 19 in December. USC used a number of different ball-screen coverages throughout the year, but it’s not hard to find examples of Okongwu executing drop coverage, which is prevalent in the modern NBA.

Offensively, more than 44% of Okongwu’s usage came on post-ups and offensive rebounds, which also happened to be where he was the most effective and efficient. Those are two things that are slowly being phased out of the modern NBA, but that’s not necessarily a huge concern for Okongwu. For starters, he’s more of a finesse post player than he is straight-up bruiser. He can finish with jump-hooks over both shoulders, and he has a habit of spinning back to his left hand, where he’s developed a nice little floater. Put another way, he has touch around the basket, which, when combined with his 72 percent free throw shooting and a handful of made 17-footers, makes the possibility of Okongwu one day becoming something of a floor-spacer feasible. He shot just 1-for-4 from three as a freshman.

As a vertical spacer, he’s going to be awesome. He has bounce, he has great hands and he didn’t even get a chance to play with a good pick-and-roll point guard in college to prove it.

When putting all of that together, Okongwu’s floor is high. As long as he stays healthy, I think the likelihood that he ends up being something in the neighborhood of Clint Capela is significant. But the difference between a guy like Capela and Bam Adebayo, or even Draymond Green before him, is the passing.

What makes Green so effective with the Warriors is his ability to pick apart a defense in 4-on-3 scenarios when teams send two defenders with Steph Curry or Klay Thompson. Adebayo made the leap from being a talented young big man to an All-Star when he turned into a guy that averages 5.1 assists. Both Green and Adebayo thrive as playmakers in short-roll actions, and that, to me, is the key to Okongwu reaching his ceiling.

He didn’t get too many chances in these actions last season, and when he did, it wasn’t always pretty. He finished the year with 30 assists and 56 turnovers, and ball-handling is clearly not yet one of his strong suits as it is with Green and Adebayo. But I do think the potential is there. Okongwu showed the ability to pass out of the post and hit drivers or weakside shooters, and there are more than a few examples of him making quick reads to create open shots for his teammates. Now, passing with your back to the basket and playmaking as a roller in ball-screens are two different things, but both require the cognitive ability to read and react to what a defense is giving you.

If Okongwu can do the former then it stands to reason that, with some coaching, he can do the latter.

Now, let’s put this into context. Adebayo averaged 16-10-5-1-1 in 2019-20. That line has only happened 11 other times in the 46 seasons since blocks were kept as an official stat, putting Adebayo in the same sentence as Kevin Garnett (3), Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (2), Giannis Antetokounmpo (2), Larry Bird, Bill Walton, Chris Webber and DeMarcus Cousins.

That’s it.

So when I say that becoming the next Bam Adebayo is within Onyeka Okongwu’s range of outcomes, understand that that’s a massive compliment.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#905 » by Ruzious » Wed May 20, 2020 1:24 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Can Onyeka Okongwu be the next Bam Adebayo or Draymond Green?



Okongwu has the tools to play a very specific, and very valuable, role at the next level: A ball-screen switching, shot-blocking, lob-catching center. Put another way, he has all the warning signs of being the next Bam Adebayo.

The thing that immediately stands out when watching Okongwu’s tape is his explosiveness. He has what I like to call Go Get It ability. No matter where the lob is thrown, no matter how much arc is put on that floater, Okongwu can Go Get It. He stands 6-foot-9 with a wingspan that is reportedly in the 7-foot-2 range and a vertical that is … let’s just say high.

This gets to the core of what will make him a valuable piece on an NBA roster. On the defensive side of the ball, Okongwu averaged 3.5 blocks per 40 minutes as a freshman, showing an impressive ability to protect the rim from the weakside of the floor. It’s not just the blocks, however. He understands how to be a presence around the basket. In this clip, you’ll see Okongwu shed a seal, scare the driver off going up to the rim and stay on his feet until the shot is taken. He can go vertical and contest at the rim, and he also blocked a surprising number of jumpers for a player that didn’t spend much time on the perimeter.
Spoiler:
That, however, is only half of what makes him so intriguing as a defender, because Okongwu has been proven to be quite adept at moving his feet out on the perimeter. It will be different defending NBA point guards, but locking up good college guards on switches is impressive for a 245 pound freshman that turned 19 in December. USC used a number of different ball-screen coverages throughout the year, but it’s not hard to find examples of Okongwu executing drop coverage, which is prevalent in the modern NBA.

Offensively, more than 44% of Okongwu’s usage came on post-ups and offensive rebounds, which also happened to be where he was the most effective and efficient. Those are two things that are slowly being phased out of the modern NBA, but that’s not necessarily a huge concern for Okongwu. For starters, he’s more of a finesse post player than he is straight-up bruiser. He can finish with jump-hooks over both shoulders, and he has a habit of spinning back to his left hand, where he’s developed a nice little floater. Put another way, he has touch around the basket, which, when combined with his 72 percent free throw shooting and a handful of made 17-footers, makes the possibility of Okongwu one day becoming something of a floor-spacer feasible. He shot just 1-for-4 from three as a freshman.

As a vertical spacer, he’s going to be awesome. He has bounce, he has great hands and he didn’t even get a chance to play with a good pick-and-roll point guard in college to prove it.

When putting all of that together, Okongwu’s floor is high. As long as he stays healthy, I think the likelihood that he ends up being something in the neighborhood of Clint Capela is significant. But the difference between a guy like Capela and Bam Adebayo, or even Draymond Green before him, is the passing.

What makes Green so effective with the Warriors is his ability to pick apart a defense in 4-on-3 scenarios when teams send two defenders with Steph Curry or Klay Thompson. Adebayo made the leap from being a talented young big man to an All-Star when he turned into a guy that averages 5.1 assists. Both Green and Adebayo thrive as playmakers in short-roll actions, and that, to me, is the key to Okongwu reaching his ceiling.

He didn’t get too many chances in these actions last season, and when he did, it wasn’t always pretty. He finished the year with 30 assists and 56 turnovers, and ball-handling is clearly not yet one of his strong suits as it is with Green and Adebayo. But I do think the potential is there. Okongwu showed the ability to pass out of the post and hit drivers or weakside shooters, and there are more than a few examples of him making quick reads to create open shots for his teammates. Now, passing with your back to the basket and playmaking as a roller in ball-screens are two different things, but both require the cognitive ability to read and react to what a defense is giving you.

If Okongwu can do the former then it stands to reason that, with some coaching, he can do the latter.

Now, let’s put this into context. Adebayo averaged 16-10-5-1-1 in 2019-20. That line has only happened 11 other times in the 46 seasons since blocks were kept as an official stat, putting Adebayo in the same sentence as Kevin Garnett (3), Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (2), Giannis Antetokounmpo (2), Larry Bird, Bill Walton, Chris Webber and DeMarcus Cousins.

That’s it.

So when I say that becoming the next Bam Adebayo is within Onyeka Okongwu’s range of outcomes, understand that that’s a massive compliment.
NBC Sports

Very good analysis. I think Bam is a little more athletic, but Okongwu anticipates better. Notice that Bam's never been the shot-blocker Okongwu is. But who knew Bam would expand his offensive game so well?
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#906 » by payitforward » Wed May 20, 2020 2:40 pm

In other words, he's good. Really good. If he's there when our turn comes we should grab him. He won't be there when our turn comes.

So... how about this: Rui & our #9 to the T-Wolves for their #3 & #34. Take Okongwu & the two BPAs at #34 &#38 (e.g. Tyler Bey & Xavier Tillman).

Then get Malachi Flynn on a 2-way along with the most promising SG or PF you can find.

PG - Wall, Napier, Ish
SG - Beal, Bey, Robinson
SF - Brown, Bonga, Mathews, Schofield
PF - Bertans, Tillman
C - Bryant, Okongwu, Wagner

Try to trade Ish, who will be expiring. Schofield won't stick after the coming season. Don't pick up Robinson's 21-22 option.

Of course, this can't happen, b/c Rui is viewed as untouchable. Too bad, as Okungwu really looks like a potential foundational piece.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#907 » by Ruzious » Wed May 20, 2020 5:41 pm

Well, I'm looking at the draft order if it goes according to record, and I think it's actually possible Okonguw slips to 8, and if that happens - how hard is it to move up 1?

Assuming Okongwu doesn't go in the top 3, here's how I see it:
4. Atlanta - They just traded for Capela and have John Collins and good backups from MD. They don't pick him.
5. Detroit - O could go here, but Detroit also NEEDs a 3. I think they lean for Avija
6. NY - They have Mitchell Robinson and a cast of PF's - no.
7. Chicago - They're committed to the Markkenen/Wendell Carter combo up front. It's possible they go for O, but not likely.
8. Cha - yeah, they'd go for O. They need someone like him.

So, we might have to just trade up 1 to get him, but that might not be as easy as it seems.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#908 » by Ruzious » Wed May 20, 2020 5:43 pm

payitforward wrote:In other words, he's good. Really good. If he's there when our turn comes we should grab him. He won't be there when our turn comes.

So... how about this: Rui & our #9 to the T-Wolves for their #3 & #34. Take Okongwu & the two BPAs at #34 &#38 (e.g. Tyler Bey & Xavier Tillman).

Then get Malachi Flynn on a 2-way along with the most promising SG or PF you can find.

PG - Wall, Napier, Ish
SG - Beal, Bey, Robinson
SF - Brown, Bonga, Mathews, Schofield
PF - Bertans, Tillman
C - Bryant, Okongwu, Wagner

Try to trade Ish, who will be expiring. Schofield won't stick after the coming season. Don't pick up Robinson's 21-22 option.

Of course, this can't happen, b/c Rui is viewed as untouchable. Too bad, as Okungwu really looks like a potential foundational piece.

Agreed - including the part about Rui. At least he's a great kid and easy to root for.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#909 » by payitforward » Wed May 20, 2020 6:00 pm

He definitely is a great kid. Like you, I hope he becomes great & everybody laughs at our skepticism. But... I'm skeptical! ...:)
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#910 » by DCZards » Wed May 20, 2020 6:06 pm

Ruzious wrote:Well, I'm looking at the draft order if it goes according to record, and I think it's actually possible Okonguw slips to 8, and if that happens - how hard is it to move up 1?

Assuming Okongwu doesn't go in the top 3, here's how I see it:
4. Atlanta - They just traded for Capela and have John Collins and good backups from MD. They don't pick him.
5. Detroit - O could go here, but Detroit also NEEDs a 3. I think they lean for Avija
6. NY - They have Mitchell Robinson and a cast of PF's - no.
7. Chicago - They're committed to the Markkenen/Wendell Carter combo up front. It's possible they go for O, but not likely.
8. Cha - yeah, they'd go for O. They need someone like him.

So, we might have to just trade up 1 to get him, but that might not be as easy as it seems.

I think the only way Okongwu (or Wiseman) are there at 9 (or even 8) is if neither goes in the top 3. I agree with you on Atlanta, NY and Chicago likely passing on a big man, but I think Detroit grabs O or Wiseman with the 5th pick. (I wouldn't be surprised to see both O & Wiseman gone by 5.)

Most mock drafts I've seen have both O and Wiseman going in the top 5-8. (Just beyond our reach.)

One of the guys I'm watching is Precious Achiuwa from Memphis. 3-4 mocks have him going at 12 usually behind Haliburton, Anthony, Okoro and Vassell. Precious is raw as hell offensively, but he's very athletic, a good defender and an above average shotblocker and rebounder. The Zards would use a player with that skillset.

I also like what I've read/learned about Haliburton. I'd have no problem drafting him (or even Vassell) at 9.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#911 » by Ruzious » Wed May 20, 2020 6:14 pm

DCZards wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Well, I'm looking at the draft order if it goes according to record, and I think it's actually possible Okonguw slips to 8, and if that happens - how hard is it to move up 1?

Assuming Okongwu doesn't go in the top 3, here's how I see it:
4. Atlanta - They just traded for Capela and have John Collins and good backups from MD. They don't pick him.
5. Detroit - O could go here, but Detroit also NEEDs a 3. I think they lean for Avija
6. NY - They have Mitchell Robinson and a cast of PF's - no.
7. Chicago - They're committed to the Markkenen/Wendell Carter combo up front. It's possible they go for O, but not likely.
8. Cha - yeah, they'd go for O. They need someone like him.

So, we might have to just trade up 1 to get him, but that might not be as easy as it seems.


I think the only way that Okongwu (or Wiseman) are possibly there at 9 (or even 8) is if neither goes in the top 3. I agree with you on Atlanta, NY and Chicago likely passing on a big man, but I think Detroit grabs O or Wiseman with the 5th pick. Most mock drafts I've seen have both O and Wiseman going in the top 5-8. (Just beyond our reach.)

The guy I'm watching is Precious Achiuwa from Memphis. I've seen 3-4 mocks have him going at 12 usually behind Haliburton, Anthony, Okoro and Vassell. Precious is raw as hell offensively, but he's very athletic, a good defender and an above average shotblocker and rebounder.

I also like what I've read/learned about Haliburton. I'd have no problem drafting him (or even Vassell) at 9.

Precious would have played with Wiseman if Wiseman hadn't got in trouble with the NCAA. I agree with you - just don't see him as a top 20 pick because of his offense. Yeah, if Hali's there for the Wiz - I can't complain. He's so skilled. And SGA's success with la Clipps shows a guy that thin can excel in the NBA - as long as he's that tall.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#912 » by payitforward » Wed May 20, 2020 8:35 pm

DCZards wrote:...One of the guys I'm watching is Precious Achiuwa from Memphis....

For a freshman, Achiuwa put up some extremely gaudy numbers. I hate the low FT%, but... he was a Freshman. OTOH, he's older than most Freshmen -- turns 21 in September.

DCZards wrote:...3-4 mocks have him going at 12 usually behind Haliburton, Anthony, Okoro and Vassell.... I also like what I've read/learned about Haliburton. I'd have no problem drafting him (or even Vassell) at 9.

Haliburton, to me, is ahead of the rest of that group.

But, does anyone in that group have "sure thing" floating above his head? Even Haliburton?

For example, is there a good reason to think that Achiuwa is going to be a better player than, say, Vernon Carey? Both Freshmen. Carey's numbers were through the ceiling. He's also a year and a half younger than Precious Achiuwa.

Hence, if a trade down for #s17 & 26 were available (admittedly that's speculation), would it not make more sense to take Carey & then Jalen Smith (or Tyler Bey) than it would to keep the pick & take Achiuwa or Vassell or Okoro?

It's not the individual names that matter in this line of thinking; substitute different names if you like, & see what you think.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#913 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri May 22, 2020 5:00 pm

Saddiq Bey will be a good NBA starter.

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#914 » by Ruzious » Fri May 22, 2020 5:11 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Saddiq Bey will be a good NBA starter.

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Yup. I'm a fan of getting both Bey's - Saddiq and Tyler. A trade down with Boston might make that possible.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#915 » by payitforward » Fri May 22, 2020 8:49 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Saddiq Bey will be a good NBA starter.

Yup. I'm a fan of getting both Bey's - Saddiq and Tyler. A trade down with Boston might make that possible.

I'd be grateful for some help in understanding why both you guys are so high on Saddiq Bey.

Don't get me wrong -- I have no reason to be particularly negative about him -- not at all -- & looking at highlight reels, I see a bunch of obviously positive stuff. Above all, he hits the 3 with range, & his release is extremely quick. He also has a strong handle & can finish with either hand. He's very crafty & imaginative, slick, posting up.

But, some of his numbers really give me pause. He's a pretty poor rebounder, & he doesn't seem to pass well. Low on steals.

Mostly what you see in highlights is him making 3's & that he's a good 1-on-1 player (I wonder if the latter will translate at the next level).

Now... I haven't taken a really deep dive here! & I didn't get to see 'Nova play. So... am I missing important stuff? If so, what...?
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#916 » by youngWizzy » Fri May 22, 2020 9:10 pm

Agree with PIF's point on Saddiq Bey. He can shoot the three well but cannot rebound for someone his size and that's honestly concerning.

With Carey he was one of the most productive players in the entire country but I worry a LOT about his lateral quickness. Here's a good breakdown of his weakness.

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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#917 » by Ruzious » Fri May 22, 2020 9:11 pm

payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Saddiq Bey will be a good NBA starter.

Yup. I'm a fan of getting both Bey's - Saddiq and Tyler. A trade down with Boston might make that possible.

I'd be grateful for some help in understanding why both you guys are so high on Saddiq Bey.

Don't get me wrong -- I have no reason to be particularly negative about him -- not at all -- & looking at highlight reels, I see a bunch of obviously positive stuff. Above all, he hits the 3 with range, & his release is extremely quick. He also has a strong handle & can finish with either hand. He's very crafty & imaginative, slick, posting up.

But, some of his numbers really give me pause. He's a pretty poor rebounder, & he doesn't seem to pass well. Low on steals.

Mostly what you see in highlights is him making 3's & that he's a good 1-on-1 player (I wonder if the latter will translate at the next level).

Now... I haven't taken a really deep dive here! & I didn't get to see 'Nova play. So... am I missing important stuff? If so, what...?

Fits the 3 & D role perfectly for today's NBA. The importance of spacing is still underestimated by some people. How many 3's are particularly good rebounders? In today's game, 3's are asked first to get up and down court quickly in transition - that gives them fewer opportunities to rebound. I'd like it if he got more steals, but from what I've seen, he's a good defender - with really good size - at 6'8 220ish - and that size allows him to switch defensively on all kinds of players. Another thing I like about him - he was improving as the season wore on. And look around the NBA, and there really aren't a lot of high quality 3's that make a high volume of 3's at a good percentage.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#918 » by Jamaaliver » Fri May 22, 2020 9:31 pm

2020 NBA Draft: Devin Vassell Scouting Report

Devin Vassell
Height: 6-6
Weight: 190 lbs.
Wingspan: 6-10

The Rundown
  • Very long/lean body that (when he fills out more) could potentially be a problem for opposing wings
  • Possesses quick hands to go along with superior defensive instincts, very aware off-ball and help defender
  • Strong on-ball defender, motor really turns on at the defensive end
  • Comfortable (and productive) playing in transition, although not an elite run-and-jump athlete
  • Smart basketball player, IQ shows-up on film: above-average rebounder for a wing, has the ability to keep the ball moving and make plays for others, averaged 0.8 TO’s in 29 MPG
  • Very high release on his jump-shot, seems more comfortable in wide open/spot-up situations
  • Not an adept finisher in traffic, his lack of bulk is a problem inside, tends to avoid contact rather than play through it (evidenced by low FTr)

Vassell’s identity as a basketball player has been molded on the defensive side of the floor. I think he has the highest motor of all the prospects in this class, and his length - combined with superior instincts - provides Vassell with the opportunity to continue to be an imposing defensive player at the next level. He can do it all defensively: moves his feet, has length to recover, effectively closes-out on shooters, quality help-defender, very disruptive in the passing lanes, etc. (evidenced by his 3.2 stocks - combined steals and blocks - per/40 minutes last season).

He seems comfortable spotting-up and stepping into his three-point attempts, but he’s probably not as NBA-ready when it comes to creating his own shot off the dribble. As mentioned above, Vassell has a very high-release point on his jump shot to go along with a very balanced and fluid lower-half.

Vassell was dangerous from pretty much every zone behind the three-point line in 2019-20. His highest volume of three-point attempts came from the left/right wings, where the 6-6 swing-man shot 40.8% on 49 attempts. Vassell shot 41% last season on left/right corner three-point field goals (39 attempts), and he went 8 for 18 (44%) on three-point attempts from the top of the key.

Best Games of the Season
January 18th at Miami: 23 points, 11 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 steals, 2 blocks
February 1st at Virginia Tech: 27 points (8-10 FGA’s, 7-7 3PTA’s)

His game is all about disruption and havoc on the defensive-end, and efficiency (and IQ) on the offensive-end. That kind of player is incredibly valuable in the NBA; a two-way guy that can impact the game in a variety of ways, who doesn’t dribble the air out of the ball or require a lot of shot attempts to stay engaged. I think Vassell’s floor is one of the highest in this class.

NBA Comparisons
Possibly could happen comparisons: Danny Green, OG Anunoby (similar height/versatility/defensive impact), Matisse Thybulle (similar potential of defensive impact), Justin Holiday (with higher-upside, especially defensively)
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#919 » by payitforward » Sat May 23, 2020 1:16 am

Ruzious wrote:
payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Yup. I'm a fan of getting both Bey's - Saddiq and Tyler. A trade down with Boston might make that possible.

I'd be grateful for some help in understanding why both you guys are so high on Saddiq Bey.

Don't get me wrong -- I have no reason to be particularly negative about him -- not at all -- & looking at highlight reels, I see a bunch of obviously positive stuff. Above all, he hits the 3 with range, & his release is extremely quick. He also has a strong handle & can finish with either hand. He's very crafty & imaginative, slick, posting up.

But, some of his numbers really give me pause. He's a pretty poor rebounder, & he doesn't seem to pass well. Low on steals.

Mostly what you see in highlights is him making 3's & that he's a good 1-on-1 player (I wonder if the latter will translate at the next level).

Now... I haven't taken a really deep dive here! & I didn't get to see 'Nova play. So... am I missing important stuff? If so, what...?

Fits the 3 & D role perfectly for today's NBA. The importance of spacing is still underestimated by some people. How many 3's are particularly good rebounders? In today's game, 3's are asked first to get up and down court quickly in transition - that gives them fewer opportunities to rebound. I'd like it if he got more steals, but from what I've seen, he's a good defender - with really good size - at 6'8 220ish - and that size allows him to switch defensively on all kinds of players. Another thing I like about him - he was improving as the season wore on. And look around the NBA, and there really aren't a lot of high quality 3's that make a high volume of 3's at a good percentage.

Helpful, thanks.

...Independent of Bey & of your comments on him specifically, I want to respond to this...
Ruzious wrote:How many 3's are particularly good rebounders? In today's game, 3's are asked first to get up and down court quickly in transition - that gives them fewer opportunities to rebound....

...because this kind of thing is starting to drive me nuts.

First we get I_Like_Dirt saying that 4s (i.e. like Rui) don't have to rebound, now 3s aren't good rebounders. &, of course, the days of the big-rebounding Center are long gone. Not to mention that if someone points out that a guy is a good rebounder for a guard the response is almost always that it doesn't mean anything.

Games have no fewer rebounds than they ever did. Teams still only put 5 guys on the court. A rebound has the same value it has always had (until the basic rules of the game change, that value can't change). Identical. Permanent. Unchanging.

To the exact degree that someone at a position is less of a rebounder than someone else at the same position he is simply less good at the position. Other things may make him better of course, but he'll have to overcome the deficit of being less good at rebounding the ball for those other things to make him the better player. Period.

What is this a list of: Cleveland Cavaliers, Atlanta Hawks, Phoenix Suns, Golden State Warriors, Sacramento Kings, Detroit Pistons, Charlotte Hornets, Washington Wizards, Chicago Bulls?

Those are the 9 worst defensive rebounding teams in the league this season. Combined record 197-379.
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Re: 2020 Draft 

Post#920 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat May 23, 2020 4:15 am

Jalen Smith is a good rebounder.

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