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Rui Hachimura

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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1501 » by DCZards » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:10 pm

NatP4 wrote:I keep saying it, Rui should be moved to the wing permanently. His best chance at being a quality NBA player that helps your team win is being a 3. His rebounding is awful for a big. He just stands there and watches while smaller players aggressively crash the glass for offensive rebounds. He doesn’t protect the rim at all. His skillset resembles a small forward.

He needs to focus on his spot up 3pt shot and guarding on the perimeter.

I had this same opinion until this season. I too thought Ruiz’s best position might be SF.

But his ability to bang bodies and score down low, along with his stronger, bigger body, has convinced me that Rui’s best position is PF.

I believe Ruiz’s presence in the paint helped make Bryant better and more effective.

Rui no doubt needs to become a better rebounder and improving his 3pt shooting is also a must.

I’m not all that concerned about his rim protection. That’s a role I’d like to see a C fill.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1502 » by payitforward » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:25 pm

nate33 wrote:
tontoz wrote:I haven't been that impressed with what i have seen from him so far. I think he can score well inside but i struggle to see what else he does well.

One thing he can do is go get a bucket. You can just give him the ball and he is able to get a decent shot up. That's a relatively rare skill for a big man. At this point, it's not that useful of a skill because getting up a "decent shot" isn't as good as running a good offensive set and getting up a "good shot". Basically, he's only good as a respectable bail out option at the end of the 24 second clock, or maybe as a primary option on the 2nd unit.

But if Hachimura can get a little bit better in shot creation so that he can get a bucket in isolation with a percentage as high as league average or better, then he could become a legitimate first option scorer - a guy you can base your offense around.

It's a fine line. A guy who can get a bucket in isolation at just below league accuracy isn't very useful at all. But a guy who can get a bucket in isolation at just above league accuracy becomes indispensable - a franchise-caliber player. I don't know if Hachimura can get to that point, but it's a possibility. Someone like Brandon Clarke is clearly a much better role player and might well have the better career as a 4th or 5th option starter who plays D, rebounds and scores with efficiency on low usage. But Clarke has no chance whatsoever of being a franchise player.

If I understand what you mean by the term "franchise player" -- best player on at least a pretty good team? one of the top 2 on a very good team? -- then I understand why you don't think Clarke has a shot to be one. & since his numbers have fallen off a cliff this year, he certainly isn't establishing himself at that level!

OTOH, judging by the exact same criteria, I can't imagine why you would give Rui Hachimura much shot of that at this point.

In fact, how much has Rui improved so far this year?

Well, he is shooting somewhat better & getting to the line more, but his TS% remains below average for an NBA PF -- that's average of ALL 4s in the league, not average of starters. Still... he's better at scoring the ball, no question about it.

OTOH, he's fouling more, blocking zero shots, & rebounding a lot worse than last year -- since he didn't rebound well last year, that's a problem.

Rui is averaging 5.5 rebounds per 40 minutes. That's less than average for an NBA shooting guard. It's 55% of average for an NBA 4. & he's also worse overall on the other stuff.

Thus, overall, Rui has improved a little, but not much. He is nowhere near starter level, not in the same neighborhood. As to "franchise player" ...?... I'm not sure you're doing him any favors by draping that kind of expectation around his shoulders.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1503 » by nate33 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:31 pm

payitforward wrote:
nate33 wrote:
tontoz wrote:I haven't been that impressed with what i have seen from him so far. I think he can score well inside but i struggle to see what else he does well.

One thing he can do is go get a bucket. You can just give him the ball and he is able to get a decent shot up. That's a relatively rare skill for a big man. At this point, it's not that useful of a skill because getting up a "decent shot" isn't as good as running a good offensive set and getting up a "good shot". Basically, he's only good as a respectable bail out option at the end of the 24 second clock, or maybe as a primary option on the 2nd unit.

But if Hachimura can get a little bit better in shot creation so that he can get a bucket in isolation with a percentage as high as league average or better, then he could become a legitimate first option scorer - a guy you can base your offense around.

It's a fine line. A guy who can get a bucket in isolation at just below league accuracy isn't very useful at all. But a guy who can get a bucket in isolation at just above league accuracy becomes indispensable - a franchise-caliber player. I don't know if Hachimura can get to that point, but it's a possibility. Someone like Brandon Clarke is clearly a much better role player and might well have the better career as a 4th or 5th option starter who plays D, rebounds and scores with efficiency on low usage. But Clarke has no chance whatsoever of being a franchise player.

If I understand what you mean by the term "franchise player" -- best player on at least a pretty good team? one of the top 2 on a very good team? -- then I understand why you don't think Clarke has a shot to be one. & since his numbers have fallen off a cliff this year, he certainly isn't establishing himself at that level!

OTOH, judging by the exact same criteria, I can't imagine why you would give Rui Hachimura much shot of that at this point.

In fact, how much has Rui improved so far this year?

Well, he is shooting somewhat better & getting to the line more, but his TS% remains below average for an NBA PF -- that's average of ALL 4s in the league, not average of starters. Still... he's better at scoring the ball, no question about it.

OTOH, he's fouling more, blocking zero shots, & rebounding a lot worse than last year -- since he didn't rebound well last year, that's a problem.

Rui is averaging 5.5 rebounds per 40 minutes. That's less than average for an NBA shooting guard. It's 55% of average for an NBA 4. & he's also worse overall on the other stuff.

Thus, overall, Rui has improved a little, but not much. He is nowhere near starter level, not in the same neighborhood. As to "franchise player" ...?... I'm not sure you're doing him any favors by draping that kind of expectation around his shoulders.

I don't think I was at all unclear in making my point. Please re-read my final paragraph.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1504 » by payitforward » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:45 am

DCZards wrote:
NatP4 wrote:I keep saying it, Rui should be moved to the wing permanently. His best chance at being a quality NBA player that helps your team win is being a 3. His rebounding is awful for a big. He just stands there and watches while smaller players aggressively crash the glass for offensive rebounds. He doesn’t protect the rim at all. His skillset resembles a small forward.

He needs to focus on his spot up 3pt shot and guarding on the perimeter.

I had this same opinion until this season. I too thought Ruiz’s best position might be SF.

But his ability to bang bodies and score down low, along with his stronger, bigger body, has convinced me that Rui’s best position is PF.

I believe Ruiz’s presence in the paint helped make Bryant better and more effective.

Rui no doubt needs to become a better rebounder and improving his 3pt shooting is also a must.

I’m not all that concerned about his rim protection. That’s a role I’d like to see a C fill.

You must have Auto Correct on, Zards -- we got Ruiz twice!! :) I like that name: Ruiz Hachimura: a Hispano-Japanese basketball player!

As to his helping make Bryant better: I see no evidence of that at all. Bryant put up his best numbers as a Wizard in 2018-19 -- before Rui was on the team (look at the numbers yourself: https://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/3282-thomas-bryant).

Between last year & this year, the only bump was in his 3-point shooting. In any case, he only got 270 minutes before the injury, so this year's numbers aren't much of a metric. Still, nothing in them points to the influence of Rui.

Now... you'd have to look a little closer anyway -- at the games he played after Rui returned. Maybe there's something there....
Remember -- if you don't like the post above: blame Doc not me.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1505 » by payitforward » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:10 am

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:
nate33 wrote:...a guy who can get a bucket in isolation at just above league accuracy becomes indispensable - a franchise-caliber player. I don't know if Hachimura can get to that point, but it's a possibility....

If I understand what you mean by the term "franchise player" -- best player on at least a pretty good team? one of the top 2 on a very good team? -- then I understand why you don't think Clarke has a shot to be one. & since his numbers have fallen off a cliff this year, he certainly isn't establishing himself at that level!

OTOH, judging by the exact same criteria, I can't imagine why you would give Rui Hachimura much shot of that at this point.....

I don't think I was at all unclear in making my point. Please re-read my final paragraph.

Fair enough. I glossed over your definition of what you mean by "franchise player. If it means "a guy who can get a bucket in isolation at just above league accuracy," then to be sure Rui has a chance to do that.

I don't see how that restricted definition would be enough for a person to apply a phrase that seems one of pure praise, since it would obviously be possible for a player to meet that criterion yet be so short of, say, league averages in enough other areas that there wouldn't necessarily be general agreement with (or, for that matter, supporting analytics for) the claim.

But, I might be wrong about that. It might be interesting to look at what players in the league do or don't deserve the tag.

None of which is to say that Rui can't become an outstanding player across the board -- not just in your focused criterion. He can. He hasn't yet, but he's still only 22. If you look at what DeAndre Hunter is doing this year compared his rookie year, it's obvious from his case alone that guys can take enormous jumps in skills & productivity across the board in their early years in the league.
Remember -- if you don't like the post above: blame Doc not me.

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