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pcbothwel wrote:Assuming... key word. Assuming Wall has his diet and conditioning in order (appears so) and his knee injuries are no longer a constant issue, then you have to take that into consideration.

I'm sort of in the middle here. I don't think Wall is going to consistently be a great player like he once was but I do think he stands a reasonable chance of being a quality rotation player.

The thing is, I'm not sure why anyone would assume this. Assume the best possible case scenario that there really isn't any evidence to suggest is the case and then argue you have to take that into consideration? Diet and conditioning when you're not playing is an entirely different ballgame than when you're playing 82 games a year plus practices. Torn ACLs don't magically change a player's conditioning habits and I'm not sure I can ever think of a situation where that was the case. And suddenly expecting him to be a better shooter? I just can't see it. As he ages and recovers from injuries, his athleticism is going to decline slowly and as that happens it's going to be harder for him to get his shot off in the first place even if he finds a way to improve his consistency when he does.

I think it's possible Wall comes back but in a slightly more constrained role, not totally unlike how Derrick Rose has. If he's willing to not quite push his limits the same way and focus on doing what he can to the best of his ability, he can help a team win, though the kind of recovery from serious injuries like this is severe and often takes a season or more for the player to fully recover. Hayward took a while in Boston. Rose took a long time. Oladipo right now is really struggling. This isn't going to be an immediate and smooth transition.

And even if Wall does come back strong, finding another PG as a succession plan is definitely a good idea. PGs on the wrong side of 30 that rely on speed and athleticism with long injury histories that are coming off missing an entire season due to injury tend not to have the longest shelf lives out there. The team would be well served to find someone to be ready to go when Rui, Bonga, Brown, Bryant, Wagner, etc. are all ready to go.

I_Like_Dirt wrote:And even if Wall does come back strong, finding another PG as a succession plan is definitely a good idea. PGs on the wrong side of 30 that rely on speed and athleticism with long injury histories that are coming off missing an entire season due to injury tend not to have the longest shelf lives out there. The team would be well served to find someone to be ready to go when Rui, Bonga, Brown, Bryant, Wagner, etc. are all ready to go.

No doubt about that. I would be very happy if they draft a combo guard in this draft.

I do think Wall will be a better shooter but a worse penetrator. Offensively, that could be a wash. My concern is defense. Not just that he may have lost a step which will hurt him defensively. I also fear that he will use the injury as an excuse to not give maximum effort at that end. And Wall is terrible defensively when he isn't locked in and giving max effort.

nate33 wrote:

I_Like_Dirt wrote:And even if Wall does come back strong, finding another PG as a succession plan is definitely a good idea. PGs on the wrong side of 30 that rely on speed and athleticism with long injury histories that are coming off missing an entire season due to injury tend not to have the longest shelf lives out there. The team would be well served to find someone to be ready to go when Rui, Bonga, Brown, Bryant, Wagner, etc. are all ready to go.

No doubt about that. I would be very happy if they draft a combo guard in this draft.

I do think Wall will be a better shooter but a []worse penetrator. Offensively, that could be a wash. My concern is defense. Not just that he may have lost a step which will hurt him defensively. I also fear that he will use the injury as an excuse to not give maximum effort at that end. And Wall is terrible defensively when he isn't locked in and giving max effort.

Why... Do you think Doncic and Harden are some freak athletes? Getting the basket, drawing fouls, etc. has much more to do with positioning and strength than pure speed. Wall used to frequently blow by guys, but take poor angles or shy from contact.
Wall has gotten much stronger and more savvy than his early 20's.

Jason Kidd was one of the fastest players in the NBA and was also big. In his physical prime from 21-25 his FTr was 28%. When he was past his physical prime from 29-33, his Ftr was 27% while taking far more 3's and less close to the basket 2's.

Athletics is an interesting balance where players have to learn as much as possible quickly to take advantage of their physical gifts while they are young.
Physically, most guys peak from 21-25, while they mentally peak from 32-40. This is why 25-29 is usually a players prime.
But a combination of modern science and freak athleticism can lead some guys to peak later as their physical peak is stretched later into their 20's and the drop off into their 30's is less pronounced. I.E. Lebron

Simply put, I think Wall is that caliber of athlete. Not just jumping/running, but hand/foot quickness, reaction time, functional strength, etc. Wall was so much bigger, stronger, and faster than his peers, that him losing a step simply makes him a Beal caliber athlete at worst.

Again, I dont worry about Wall's health, weight/conditioning, IQ, or skill set... It all amounts to ego and self awareness. He NEEDS to step back offensively and find his role.

Freak athletes can have prolonged late careers. Lebron, Dwight, Vince Carter, Kobe, MJ, Derrick Rose, Iguodala, Dr. J, Wade, Garnett, Pippen, David Robinson, etc.
Blake Griffin and Westbrook are two other guys who might surprise people in the next couple year as well.

The only ones who dont are those who had catastrophic injuries(Stoudemire), undersized (IT, Francis, Nate Robinson), or didnt take care of their body (T-Mac, Barkley, Shaq, Kemp). Wall MIGHT be in the 1st camp, but all indication/video show it is not.

He ain't "scurrred!"

That's a real good thing. Rui's going to be a beast against the best. He might not be all that against the mediocre. Might take him a while, if ever, to exploit the weaker or inferior.

That is my GUESS at this time.

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:

Read on Twitter

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/rui-hachimura-guarding-mvp-giannis-antetokounmpo-im-not-scared

His international branding is an asset to the Wizards and the NBA in terms of marketing in a global economy. FRANCHISE VALUE TRENDING UP perhaps in Japan????

DOMO ARIGATO.

Rui might single handedly make enough money for the team in Japan to cover a lux tax bill one year .

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:

Read on Twitter

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/rui-hachimura-guarding-mvp-giannis-antetokounmpo-im-not-scared

His international branding is an asset to the Wizards and the NBA in terms of marketing in a global economy. FRANCHISE VALUE TRENDING UP perhaps in Japan????

DOMO ARIGATO.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

gambitx777 wrote:Rui might single handedly make enough money for the team in Japan to cover a lux tax bill one year

Rui's 3 ball continues to improve. Very encouraging. Also like that he's attacking the rim off the dribble and playing with more and more physicality on both ends of the court.

+ his splits across the board for February are up, defensive rebounding, blocked shots, steals, assists, TS%...

dckingsfan wrote:+ his splits across the board for February are up, defensive rebounding, blocked shots, steals, assists, TS%...

Impossible. I was told Rui hit his NBA ceiling.

DCZards wrote:Rui's 3 ball continues to improve. Very encouraging. Also like that he's attacking the rim off the dribble and playing with more and more physicality on both ends of the court.

I'm growing more confident that Rui's 3-point shot will come around. Since returning from injury, he has hit 7 of his 15 3PA's (46.7%).

The thing Rui has to work on the most is protecting the ball and drawing contact. When he goes up for a shot in the paint with defenders around him, he is still seeking to avoid contact rather than jumping into it or throwing his arm into the outstretched hand to draw the foul. Once he gets that part down, he should be a pretty efficient scorer.

JWizmentality wrote:

dckingsfan wrote:+ his splits across the board for February are up, defensive rebounding, blocked shots, steals, assists, TS%...

Impossible. I was told Rui hit his NBA ceiling.

I sure hope he hasn't, don't you? Or, are you thinking Rui had a good game last night? That Rui's outing last night was an example of what a good rookie year he's having? Well, for sure, Rui shot aggressively & effectively in the first half. & it's great to see his 3 go in.

Rui played 27 minutes. Troy Brown Jr & Thomas Bryant combined to play 28 minutes. Did Rui produce as much in his 27 as they did in 28? Was Rui as effective as the 2 of them combined?

Well, he scored 17 points on 10 shots & 2 FTAs -- that's a .697 TS%. Outstanding. So of course he was.

In their 28 minutes, OTOH, TBJ & TB only scored 15 points. That's not as good as 17 points. Then again, they got those 2 fewer points by taking 9 shots & 2 FTAs. Let's see, that's 2 fewer points by taking 1 less shot & 3 fewer FTAs. So they wound up with -- a .759 TS%. & 2 fewer points.

Rui got 1 offensive board; they got 2. Rui got 3 defensive boards; they got 8. Admittedly, they did play 1 additional minute, but if my arithmetic is right, that's 10 rebounds as opposed to Rui's 4 -- do I have that right?

Rui didn't have an assist; they had one. But, they committed 6 fouls in only 1 more minute than Rui, who only committed 3 fouls. Of course, Rui turned the ball over twice to their combined 1 turnover. That stuff seems about even.

So... 27 minutes at starting PF with 4 rebounds & 2 turnovers. He's just a rookie, but actually that's not actually good, is it? I mean... even if someone nods solemnly while saying "yes, yes it is really good" -- is it?

payitforward wrote:

JWizmentality wrote:

dckingsfan wrote:+ his splits across the board for February are up, defensive rebounding, blocked shots, steals, assists, TS%...

Impossible. I was told Rui hit his NBA ceiling.

I sure hope he hasn't, don't you? Or, are you thinking Rui had a good game last night? That Rui's outing last night was an example of what a good rookie year he's having? Well, for sure, Rui shot aggressively & effectively in the first half. & it's great to see his 3 go in.

Rui played 27 minutes. Troy Brown Jr & Thomas Bryant combined to play 28 minutes. Did Rui produce as much in his 27 as they did in 28? Was Rui as effective as the 2 of them combined?

Well, he scored 17 points on 10 shots & 2 FTAs -- that's a .697 TS%. Outstanding. So of course he was.

In their 28 minutes, OTOH, TBJ & TB only scored 15 points. That's not as good as 17 points. Then again, they got those 2 fewer points by taking 9 shots & 2 FTAs. Let's see, that's 2 fewer points by taking 1 less shot & 3 fewer FTAs. So they wound up with -- a .759 TS%. & 2 fewer points.

Rui got 1 offensive board; they got 2. Rui got 3 defensive boards; they got 8. Admittedly, they did play 1 additional minute, but if my arithmetic is right, that's 10 rebounds as opposed to Rui's 4 -- do I have that right?

Rui didn't have an assist; they had one. But, they committed 6 fouls in only 1 more minute than Rui, who only committed 3 fouls. Of course, Rui turned the ball over twice to their combined 1 turnover. That stuff seems about even.

So... 27 minutes at starting PF with 4 rebounds & 2 turnovers. He's just a rookie, but actually that's not actually good, is it? I mean... even if someone nods solemnly while saying "yes, yes it is really good" -- is it?

Did...did Troy Brown Jr and Thomas Bryant just perform the fusion technique?!?



I'll say this for your benefit. Don't bother throwing those advanced stats at me. I don't really put much stock in it. You obviously care a lot about it so it would be better directing them at someone who shares your interests.

Rui is a rookie, he is doing well for playing all of what? 3 months into his NBA career? Get a grip dude. Wait till I get Rui a pair of potara earrings. You aint ready for that TS% fool!

JWizmentality wrote:...Don't bother throwing those advanced stats at me. I don't really put much stock in it. You obviously care a lot about it so it would be better directing them at someone who shares your interests...

I was pretty damxed cranky yesterday -- sorry!

I don't put any stock in "advanced stats" either. What wins games is pretty obvious -- 1. controlling the ball (to increase the number of opportunities you have to score) & shooting a high % (i.e. making the most of those opportunities).

Nothing advanced about either of those!

JWizmentality wrote:...Rui is a rookie, he is doing well for playing all of what? 3 months into his NBA career? ...

You are absolutely right -- there's no way to come to any judgment on Rui after only @1000 minutes. He has a shot to be a very good player.

For starters, he's been a whole lot better than 5 of the 8 guys taken before him.

Plus, of the 16 rookies who've played at least as many minutes as he has, only 4 of them have been better than Rui (Clarke, Morant, Thybulle, & Terence Davis).

Even if you widen it to guys who've played at least 500 minutes, only 8-9 rookies have been better than Rui. 1 was drafted last year, so he doesn't count, & a couple were undrafted or r2 picks on no one's radar.

So, I think your description, "doing well," fits him just fine. That's not the same as saying he's actually playing well overall (i.e. compared to all the players in the league -- not just other rookies), because he isn't. Only about 7 rookies are.

nate33 wrote:

DCZards wrote:Rui's 3 ball continues to improve. Very encouraging. Also like that he's attacking the rim off the dribble and playing with more and more physicality on both ends of the court.

I'm growing more confident that Rui's 3-point shot will come around. Since returning from injury, he has hit 7 of his 15 3PA's (46.7%).

The thing Rui has to work on the most is protecting the ball and drawing contact. When he goes up for a shot in the paint with defenders around him, he is still seeking to avoid contact rather than jumping into it or throwing his arm into the outstretched hand to draw the foul. Once he gets that part down, he should be a pretty efficient scorer.

Yeah, I am encouraged that Rui hit 2 3s to start the game that lead to a Brooklyn timeout and it appeared that Brooklyn altered it's strategy to close out on Rui- as Rui didn't take a single 3 for the rest of the game.

Kanyewest wrote:

nate33 wrote:

DCZards wrote:Rui's 3 ball continues to improve. Very encouraging. Also like that he's attacking the rim off the dribble and playing with more and more physicality on both ends of the court.

I'm growing more confident that Rui's 3-point shot will come around. Since returning from injury, he has hit 7 of his 15 3PA's (46.7%).

The thing Rui has to work on the most is protecting the ball and drawing contact. When he goes up for a shot in the paint with defenders around him, he is still seeking to avoid contact rather than jumping into it or throwing his arm into the outstretched hand to draw the foul. Once he gets that part down, he should be a pretty efficient scorer.

Yeah, I am encouraged that Rui hit 2 3s to start the game that lead to a Brooklyn timeout and it appeared that Brooklyn altered it's strategy to close out on Rui- as Rui didn't take a single 3 for the rest of the game.

Yes, it's good that he's hitting his 3-pointer. That's a good thing.

But, just as that is good, so too, & in exactly the same way, it is bad that his rebounding is so weak. If one is encouraged that Rui hit a pair of 3's to start the game, one must also be discouraged that in 27 minutes he managed a total of 4 rebounds.

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:

Read on Twitter

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/rui-hachimura-guarding-mvp-giannis-antetokounmpo-im-not-scared

Watch the brilliant defense of Bonga on that play. He ran parallel to Giannis down the court, and - like a Ninja - flicked the ball - really causing the turnover just as Giannis reached Rui. Rui got the credit, but Bonga made that play possible.

payitforward wrote:

Kanyewest wrote:

nate33 wrote:I'm growing more confident that Rui's 3-point shot will come around. Since returning from injury, he has hit 7 of his 15 3PA's (46.7%).

The thing Rui has to work on the most is protecting the ball and drawing contact. When he goes up for a shot in the paint with defenders around him, he is still seeking to avoid contact rather than jumping into it or throwing his arm into the outstretched hand to draw the foul. Once he gets that part down, he should be a pretty efficient scorer.

Yeah, I am encouraged that Rui hit 2 3s to start the game that lead to a Brooklyn timeout and it appeared that Brooklyn altered it's strategy to close out on Rui- as Rui didn't take a single 3 for the rest of the game.

Yes, it's good that he's hitting his 3-pointer. That's a good thing.

But, just as that is good, so too, & in exactly the same way, it is bad that his rebounding is so weak. If one is encouraged that Rui hit a pair of 3's to start the game, one must also be discouraged that in 27 minutes he managed a total of 4 rebounds.

Yeah, the Nets badly outrebounded the Wizards. That being said, I was encouraged by Rui's tip off a Brooklyn miss that helped Jerome Robinson secure the rebound in the final moments of the game. Rui won't get credit for the rebound on the stat sheet although it did ultimately lead to the Wizards getting another possession.