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Rui Hachimura

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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1481 » by NatP4 » Mon Jan 4, 2021 9:05 pm

I maintain that the rebounding concern is overblown. He averaged 7.3 per 36 which would be great for a NBA wing, Avdija projects to be around the same level of production. One of the two will give you that plus rebounding from the 3 to make up for the drop off in rebounding from the 4. It all evens out. If they ever settle in on Brown being more of a combo guard than a wing, you get plus rebounding production from him also, another core piece.

They will be able to switch everything 1-4 and space the floor for the next 10 years. I’m sure Rui will improve as a rebounder as his feel for the game and strength continues to increase.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1482 » by doclinkin » Mon Jan 4, 2021 9:45 pm

Whereas, while I think Rui will often be a solid 1v1 defender against big high-usage SFs like KD and Giannis, I think he has a steep learning curve on team defense, including when and how to switch against other perimeter attackers. To say he can switch positions x-to-y is projecting something that is not there yet.

You can learn Man defense one on one in a gym. Switching and Zones and principles of weakside help and the hedge and recover on P&R are all things you have to learn from experience and with communication and an intuitive knowledge of positional defense. This is a reason why soccer playing Bigs are often quite good on defense regardless of their counting stats. They know how to cut off angles and passing lanes and use the team as a single unit, to understand who is behind you and to watch for off ball motion. Deni gets this instantly. Rui has a processing lag.

This is why the things that he can do individually well will prove key. Boxing out, and actively rebounding, bodying up on a player, establishing position and holding it. These things he can do right now. Rebounding requires understanding of angles, but it's easy to understand: when the ball goes up, put your man on your back and stay wide. Shot goes up? Hit him, then find the ball.

I agree he will be a useful shadow to put on teams who rely on a high use tall forward. Like a 'spy' linebacker or safety in football whose sole job is to make their best player work harder. Asking him to switch etc is not his best strength. Maybe this improves quickly though, his passing and vision on offense does look improved in a short time period.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1483 » by NatP4 » Mon Jan 4, 2021 10:01 pm

My argument would be that switching makes better use of his skillset and simplifies things. If I was a NBA coach, my goal would be to never switch anything, to find smart players that could fight through screens and be able to help off the weakside on pick and rolls and then rotate to shooters. However, switching makes use of Rui’s athletic ability as opposed to forcing him to make decisions in the pick and roll defense about when/how long to hedge, when to get back to his man, when to contest vs when to position himself for rebound. Switching takes all the thinking away and lets him focus on staying infront of his man.

Sidenote, I think a massive problem with the wizards defense is that they have to think too much because they want to switch 1-4, and cannot switch 1-5 due to Bryant being a poor perimeter defender. It makes all of the guards have to think twice in pick and rolls “is it Rui or Thomas???” and then proceed to either switch or fight through. I would advocate for a smaller lineup down the stretch with Rui at the 5 that switches everything to avoid any thinking.

In my experience watching basketball in my life, players never develop into elite team defenders later on, you either have that instinct or you don’t, but Rui has the physical tools to be solid 1on1 defender and great switchability.

If Brooks ever gets his head out of his ass, maybe we could see a closing lineup of Westbrook-Beal-Avdija-Bonga-Rui that switches 1-5. The wiz have defensive potential.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1484 » by penbeast0 » Tue Jan 5, 2021 12:09 am

NatP4 wrote:I maintain that the rebounding concern is overblown. He averaged 7.3 per 36 which would be great for a NBA wing, Avdija projects to be around the same level of production. One of the two will give you that plus rebounding from the 3 to make up for the drop off in rebounding from the 4. It all evens out. If they ever settle in on Brown being more of a combo guard than a wing, you get plus rebounding production from him also, another core piece.

They will be able to switch everything 1-4 and space the floor for the next 10 years. I’m sure Rui will improve as a rebounder as his feel for the game and strength continues to increase.


Seriously? You are okay with our starting PF and lottery choice rebounding like a good 2? Especially when he's playing next to Thomas Bryant who plays further away from the basket offensively and also rebounds poorly for his position. Rui's a project and a question mark; he has good size and is a reasonably fluid athlete but has few if any skills at NBA starter level yet. I hope he develops into an above average NBA forward too but he's not there yet in any respect.

Bryant looks good offensively and weak defensively, again. This seems to be who he is, but at least he's good at something. He needs defense next to him and Rui isn't providing it . . . yet. But, yeah, we can hope.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1485 » by NatP4 » Tue Jan 5, 2021 12:41 am

penbeast0 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:I maintain that the rebounding concern is overblown. He averaged 7.3 per 36 which would be great for a NBA wing, Avdija projects to be around the same level of production. One of the two will give you that plus rebounding from the 3 to make up for the drop off in rebounding from the 4. It all evens out. If they ever settle in on Brown being more of a combo guard than a wing, you get plus rebounding production from him also, another core piece.

They will be able to switch everything 1-4 and space the floor for the next 10 years. I’m sure Rui will improve as a rebounder as his feel for the game and strength continues to increase.


Seriously? You are okay with our starting PF and lottery choice rebounding like a good 2? Especially when he's playing next to Thomas Bryant who plays further away from the basket offensively and also rebounds poorly for his position. Rui's a project and a question mark; he has good size and is a reasonably fluid athlete but has few if any skills at NBA starter level yet. I hope he develops into an above average NBA forward too but he's not there yet in any respect.

Bryant looks good offensively and weak defensively, again. This seems to be who he is, but at least he's good at something. He needs defense next to him and Rui isn't providing it . . . yet. But, yeah, we can hope.


Which 2 guards average 7.3 rebounds per game? Also, Thomas Bryant has averaged 10.5 rebounds per36 for his career, so no clue what that is about.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1486 » by dckingsfan » Tue Jan 5, 2021 1:25 am

NatP4 wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:I maintain that the rebounding concern is overblown. He averaged 7.3 per 36 which would be great for a NBA wing, Avdija projects to be around the same level of production. One of the two will give you that plus rebounding from the 3 to make up for the drop off in rebounding from the 4. It all evens out. If they ever settle in on Brown being more of a combo guard than a wing, you get plus rebounding production from him also, another core piece.

They will be able to switch everything 1-4 and space the floor for the next 10 years. I’m sure Rui will improve as a rebounder as his feel for the game and strength continues to increase.


Seriously? You are okay with our starting PF and lottery choice rebounding like a good 2? Especially when he's playing next to Thomas Bryant who plays further away from the basket offensively and also rebounds poorly for his position. Rui's a project and a question mark; he has good size and is a reasonably fluid athlete but has few if any skills at NBA starter level yet. I hope he develops into an above average NBA forward too but he's not there yet in any respect.

Bryant looks good offensively and weak defensively, again. This seems to be who he is, but at least he's good at something. He needs defense next to him and Rui isn't providing it . . . yet. But, yeah, we can hope.


Which 2 guards average 7.3 rebounds per game? Also, Thomas Bryant has averaged 10.5 rebounds per36 for his career, so no clue what that is about.

Well, what I see is that Rui looks like he is playing much better on the offensive side of the ball (in preseason as well).

On the defensive side of the ball - really small sample size thus far, right? Last year his DRB% was 17. We would expect that to climb over the next couple of years. One thing... he isn't a rim protector and neither is Avidja. We are 11th in DRB%. But we are last in FT/FGA (I would posit that this is from a lack of a rim protector, but yeah, correlation doesn't equal causation).

But he isn't a good defensive player or PF at this point...
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1487 » by payitforward » Tue Jan 5, 2021 1:26 am

JWizmentality wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
payitforward wrote:You know, man... this is really kind of nuts.

When Rui's numbers right across the box score look somewhere near as good as Aldridge's, Kawhi's or Pierce's that is when we can start comparing him to those guys.

Kawhi was a tremendous player from the moment he came into the league. Ditto Paul Pierce. You're not doing him any favors. Any more than comparing him with Karl Malone. Cut it out.

Right now, Rui Hachimura isn't at, or even particularly near, the level of productivity of an average NBA power forward. That -- not Paul Pierce, Kawhi Leonard, or any other outstanding NBA player -- is the goal we need to see him reach.


Ughh. Rui and I dont talk much, so I doubt my praise of him will somehow derail his career.
Look, you were not a fan of the Rui pick last year. Fine, many were hesitant. But if you cant look at his physical and mental makeup along with this overall athleticism/bio mechanics and see Kawhi... Im not sure what to tell you.

Young Kawhi did not gather assist or even rebound at a high level. On offense, he didnt over dribble or turn the ball over. He seemed to take whatever shot he wanted depending on the matchup. He never seemed rushed or overwhelmed. Not only was he efficient, but he seemed to do it from everywhere without relying on high volume 3's or FT attempts to pump up his efficiency.
The rim, 10 feet, 18 feet, FT, 3 point line... Very few players "PROFILE" to be proficient at all scoring levels like Kahwi...Rui appears to have that projection.

Also rich coming from the guy that declared Brandon Clarke the 3rd/4th best Forward in the league after 10 games.

:) It would be, for sure, if I'd done something like that. But, of course, I didn't. OTOH, I imagine I was surprised by how well Clarke played right off & said something on the order of "so far this season, Clarke's numbers..." etc.

OTOH, along the same lines, Brandon Clarke is getting off to a much slower start this year.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1488 » by dckingsfan » Tue Jan 5, 2021 1:28 am

payitforward wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
Ughh. Rui and I dont talk much, so I doubt my praise of him will somehow derail his career.
Look, you were not a fan of the Rui pick last year. Fine, many were hesitant. But if you cant look at his physical and mental makeup along with this overall athleticism/bio mechanics and see Kawhi... Im not sure what to tell you.

Young Kawhi did not gather assist or even rebound at a high level. On offense, he didnt over dribble or turn the ball over. He seemed to take whatever shot he wanted depending on the matchup. He never seemed rushed or overwhelmed. Not only was he efficient, but he seemed to do it from everywhere without relying on high volume 3's or FT attempts to pump up his efficiency.
The rim, 10 feet, 18 feet, FT, 3 point line... Very few players "PROFILE" to be proficient at all scoring levels like Kahwi...Rui appears to have that projection.

Also rich coming from the guy that declared Brandon Clarke the 3rd/4th best Forward in the league after 10 games.

:) It would be, for sure, if I'd done something like that. But, of course, I didn't. OTOH, I imagine I was surprised by how well Clarke played right off & said something on the order of "so far this season, Clarke's numbers..." etc.

OTOH, along the same lines, Brandon Clarke is getting off to a much slower start this year.

I was one of the ones that wanted Clarke. But man, he has fallen off the back of the truck this year, what gives?
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1489 » by ruffian253 » Tue Jan 5, 2021 2:55 am

penbeast0 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:I maintain that the rebounding concern is overblown. He averaged 7.3 per 36 which would be great for a NBA wing, Avdija projects to be around the same level of production. One of the two will give you that plus rebounding from the 3 to make up for the drop off in rebounding from the 4. It all evens out. If they ever settle in on Brown being more of a combo guard than a wing, you get plus rebounding production from him also, another core piece.

They will be able to switch everything 1-4 and space the floor for the next 10 years. I’m sure Rui will improve as a rebounder as his feel for the game and strength continues to increase.


Seriously? You are okay with our starting PF and lottery choice rebounding like a good 2? Especially when he's playing next to Thomas Bryant who plays further away from the basket offensively and also rebounds poorly for his position. Rui's a project and a question mark; he has good size and is a reasonably fluid athlete but has few if any skills at NBA starter level yet. I hope he develops into an above average NBA forward too but he's not there yet in any respect.

Bryant looks good offensively and weak defensively, again. This seems to be who he is, but at least he's good at something. He needs defense next to him and Rui isn't providing it . . . yet. But, yeah, we can hope.


That's a pretty rough assessment and a hard take there. Rui's strength is his offense and when he's assertive on the offensive through post ups, kickouts, mid range jumpers, and his quickness when being guarded by a big. With just a few more touches or plays called for him, no reason why he can't can't argue about 20ppg.

Unfortunately with Beal being the alpha on the team, these skills will only be displayed in the first three quarters. Come fourth, ain't nobody touching or shooting the ball especially in the last 4 minutes except for Beal. Although Russ tends to play hero ball, I cant really fault the guy as he goes 110% at all times and is like a runaway train.

For Rui's weaknesses, defense has always been a challenge even back to his Gonzaga days as there are still some mental lapses with his team defense, but I suspect over time this will improve with better coaching. His man defense and his defensive rebounding are serviceable as this is really based on the team defensive concepts, I don't think we can expect alot of offensive rebounds as the wizards are a jump shooting team.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1490 » by payitforward » Tue Jan 5, 2021 3:36 am

prime1time wrote:
payitforward wrote:Great post, doc.

Rui has played 77 minutes so far this season. What's the point in saying "he's better at..." this, that or the other thing? How about we wait until he's played a few hundred minutes, ok?

Rui has made 2 out of the 5 3-point shots he's taken. We don't look at that & then turn around and say "Rui shoots the 3 at 40%." We say, "I hope he keeps that up."

Nor does doc mean to suggest Rui will average 5.5 boards per 40 minutes....

I stand by what I said. I’ve seen him play in the summer, pre-season and these first two games. Not to mention I’ve heard comments from his teammates and coach Brooks. Rebounding is an issue and he might end up averaging 5.5 rebounds a game. I’d point out that I’ve listened to basically every interview he’s given this season and I haven’t once heard him mention rebounding. It does not seem to be a priority for either him or the team.

& so you should stand by what you say! I'm not dinging you for it! Far from it -- we're fans; if we are not enthusiastic, who is?

But, in reality-world, Rui will be what he'll be -- & it'll happen when it happens. Buddhist, I know.... Then again, the kid is from Japan.

So... whatever he's doing well, may he continue to do it well & then do it even better! & what he's not doing well, may he improve & improve until he's great at it.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1491 » by payitforward » Tue Jan 5, 2021 3:48 am

penbeast0 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:I maintain that the rebounding concern is overblown. He averaged 7.3 per 36 which would be great for a NBA wing, Avdija projects to be around the same level of production. One of the two will give you that plus rebounding from the 3 to make up for the drop off in rebounding from the 4. It all evens out. If they ever settle in on Brown being more of a combo guard than a wing, you get plus rebounding production from him also, another core piece.

They will be able to switch everything 1-4 and space the floor for the next 10 years. I’m sure Rui will improve as a rebounder as his feel for the game and strength continues to increase.


Seriously? You are okay with our starting PF and lottery choice rebounding like a good 2? Especially when he's playing next to Thomas Bryant who plays further away from the basket offensively and also rebounds poorly for his position....

?? Bryant is an above average offensive rebounder & an above average defense rebounder for an NBA big....
penbeast0 wrote:...Rui's a project and a question mark; he has good size and is a reasonably fluid athlete but has few if any skills at NBA starter level yet. I hope he develops into an above average NBA forward too but he's not there yet...

This is exactly correct. Rui is a kid with a lot of potential.

His rookie year he did the most important thing a rookie can do -- he demonstrated that he is not a bust.

Now he has to do what he has not done yet -- develop until he's actually a good NBA player.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1492 » by payitforward » Tue Jan 5, 2021 3:50 am

dckingsfan wrote:
payitforward wrote:
JWizmentality wrote:Also rich coming from the guy that declared Brandon Clarke the 3rd/4th best Forward in the league after 10 games.

:) It would be, for sure, if I'd done something like that. But, of course, I didn't. OTOH, I imagine I was surprised by how well Clarke played right off & said something on the order of "so far this season, Clarke's numbers..." etc.

OTOH, along the same lines, Brandon Clarke is getting off to a much slower start this year.

I was one of the ones that wanted Clarke. But man, he has fallen off the back of the truck this year, what gives?

It's all my fault. It's because I have stopped paying attention to him.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1493 » by dckingsfan » Tue Jan 5, 2021 2:39 pm

payitforward wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
payitforward wrote::) It would be, for sure, if I'd done something like that. But, of course, I didn't. OTOH, I imagine I was surprised by how well Clarke played right off & said something on the order of "so far this season, Clarke's numbers..." etc.

OTOH, along the same lines, Brandon Clarke is getting off to a much slower start this year.

I was one of the ones that wanted Clarke. But man, he has fallen off the back of the truck this year, what gives?

It's all my fault. It's because I have stopped paying attention to him.

Hmmm, maybe ignore him all season :D

I have liked what I have seen in the preseason from Rui and the last two games. And the couldashouldawoulda if he had not had conjunctivitis makes me think it would have made a difference having him on the floor (especially where it meant Smith wasn't on the floor). It looks like he has worked hard on his body, three point shot, handles and moves in the paint.

But two things still stick out, defensive rebounding and shot blocking...

One more thing, did you notice Avidja giving Rui directions on where to be on defense? :o
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1494 » by payitforward » Fri Jan 8, 2021 1:59 am

The best news about Rui is that scoring 20 points per 40 minutes at a .627 TS% -- which is terrific. More points at a much higher efficiency.

Biggest reasons for more points are that he's getting to the line more than twice as often as last year & that so far he's shooting the 3 at 50% (not a lot of attempts however...).

Unfortunately, he's only getting 5.1 rebounds per 40 minutes, which is ridiculously & unacceptably low.

Only 102 minutes, so no drawing any conclusions -- especially since his first game back was by far his best. Still, better is better -- & worth noticing.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1495 » by SA37 » Fri Jan 8, 2021 1:17 pm

payitforward wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:I maintain that the rebounding concern is overblown. He averaged 7.3 per 36 which would be great for a NBA wing, Avdija projects to be around the same level of production. One of the two will give you that plus rebounding from the 3 to make up for the drop off in rebounding from the 4. It all evens out. If they ever settle in on Brown being more of a combo guard than a wing, you get plus rebounding production from him also, another core piece.

They will be able to switch everything 1-4 and space the floor for the next 10 years. I’m sure Rui will improve as a rebounder as his feel for the game and strength continues to increase.


Seriously? You are okay with our starting PF and lottery choice rebounding like a good 2? Especially when he's playing next to Thomas Bryant who plays further away from the basket offensively and also rebounds poorly for his position....

?? Bryant is an above average offensive rebounder & an above average defense rebounder for an NBA big....
penbeast0 wrote:...Rui's a project and a question mark; he has good size and is a reasonably fluid athlete but has few if any skills at NBA starter level yet. I hope he develops into an above average NBA forward too but he's not there yet...

This is exactly correct. Rui is a kid with a lot of potential.

His rookie year he did the most important thing a rookie can do -- he demonstrated that he is not a bust.

Now he has to do what he has not done yet -- develop until he's actually a good NBA player.



Tough crowd. :lol:

I think you all are far too negative with Rui. He's on a team that is just loaded with... defensively challenged players... and given the NBA rules and the evolution of the game -- not to mention the preseason feel to these opening 3 weeks of play -- defense is a 5-man concerted effort; no hand-checking and such makes it almost impossible to stop guys 1-on-1 and not everyone gets the leeway that Patrick Beverly does to hang all over guys and hack away.

Rui has a fantastic low post game and is excellent finishing around the rim. As far as rebounding is concerned, with so many 3s, 4s and 5s moving out to the perimeter, Rui isn't always going to find himself in optimal position for rebounds, so I'd take his numbers with a grain of salt (Adebayo is at 9rpg per 36 this season). Still, despite the small sample size, Rui is getting almost 13ppg on 8 shots in 25 minutes, compared to Bertans who is getting 12 points on 9 shots in 24 minutes. Meanwhile, Beal (24) and Westbrook (20) are just chucking away.

It's still preseason in terms of players being in game shape, coaches figuring out rotations and minutes, and just generally (lack of) quality of play. I'd basically wipe the slate clean after January and evaluate guys based on everything after that point.

I mean, look at some of Miami's guys: it's ugly out there (and Miami's uniforms only add the pathetic display; they are atrocious.)

Herro: 13-6-4 in 32 minutes and 29 3pt% on 11 shots in 32mpg.

Butler 13-4-4 on 40 fg% on 12 shots in 27mpg
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1496 » by payitforward » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:27 am

Rui is at 5 rebounds per 36 -- that's 55% of Bam's rate.

But wait... I just checked Bam's numbers: 10.67 boards per 36 minutes. :)
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1497 » by tontoz » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:44 pm

I haven't been that impressed with what i have seen from him so far. I think he can score well inside but i struggle to see what else he does well.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1498 » by nate33 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:55 pm

tontoz wrote:I haven't been that impressed with what i have seen from him so far. I think he can score well inside but i struggle to see what else he does well.

One thing he can do is go get a bucket. You can just give him the ball and he is able to get a decent shot up. That's a relatively rare skill for a big man. At this point, it's not that useful of a skill because getting up a "decent shot" isn't as good as running a good offensive set and getting up a "good shot". Basically, he's only good as a respectable bail out option at the end of the 24 second clock, or maybe as a primary option on the 2nd unit.

But if Hachimura can get a little bit better in shot creation so that he can get a bucket in isolation with a percentage as high as league average or better, then he could become a legitimate first option scorer - a guy you can base your offense around.

It's a fine line. A guy who can get a bucket in isolation at just below league accuracy isn't very useful at all. But a guy who can get a bucket in isolation at just above league accuracy becomes indispensable - a franchise-caliber player. I don't know if Hachimura can get to that point, but it's a possibility. Someone like Brandon Clarke is clearly a much better role player and might well have the better career as a 4th or 5th option starter who plays D, rebounds and scores with efficiency on low usage. But Clarke has no chance whatsoever of being a franchise player.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1499 » by NatP4 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:07 pm

I keep saying it, Rui should be moved to the wing permanently. His best chance at being a quality NBA player that helps your team win is being a 3. His rebounding is awful for a big. He just stands there and watches while smaller players aggressively crash the glass for offensive rebounds. He doesn’t protect the rim at all. His skillset resembles a small forward.

He needs to focus on his spot up 3pt shot and guarding on the perimeter.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1500 » by nate33 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:13 pm

NatP4 wrote:I keep saying it, Rui should be moved to the wing permanently. His best chance at being a quality NBA player that helps your team win is being a 3. His rebounding is awful for a big. He just stands there and watches while smaller players aggressively crash the glass for offensive rebounds. He doesn’t protect the rim at all. His skillset resembles a small forward.

He needs to focus on his spot up 3pt shot and guarding on the perimeter.

It would be nice to see him at Big Man Camp instead of Big Guard Camp.

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