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NatP4 wrote:I keep saying it, Rui should be moved to the wing permanently. His best chance at being a quality NBA player that helps your team win is being a 3. His rebounding is awful for a big. He just stands there and watches while smaller players aggressively crash the glass for offensive rebounds. He doesn’t protect the rim at all. His skillset resembles a small forward.

He needs to focus on his spot up 3pt shot and guarding on the perimeter.

I had this same opinion until this season. I too thought Ruiz’s best position might be SF.

But his ability to bang bodies and score down low, along with his stronger, bigger body, has convinced me that Rui’s best position is PF.

I believe Ruiz’s presence in the paint helped make Bryant better and more effective.

Rui no doubt needs to become a better rebounder and improving his 3pt shooting is also a must.

I’m not all that concerned about his rim protection. That’s a role I’d like to see a C fill.

nate33 wrote:

tontoz wrote:I haven't been that impressed with what i have seen from him so far. I think he can score well inside but i struggle to see what else he does well.

One thing he can do is go get a bucket. You can just give him the ball and he is able to get a decent shot up. That's a relatively rare skill for a big man. At this point, it's not that useful of a skill because getting up a "decent shot" isn't as good as running a good offensive set and getting up a "good shot". Basically, he's only good as a respectable bail out option at the end of the 24 second clock, or maybe as a primary option on the 2nd unit.

But if Hachimura can get a little bit better in shot creation so that he can get a bucket in isolation with a percentage as high as league average or better, then he could become a legitimate first option scorer - a guy you can base your offense around.

It's a fine line. A guy who can get a bucket in isolation at just below league accuracy isn't very useful at all. But a guy who can get a bucket in isolation at just above league accuracy becomes indispensable - a franchise-caliber player. I don't know if Hachimura can get to that point, but it's a possibility. Someone like Brandon Clarke is clearly a much better role player and might well have the better career as a 4th or 5th option starter who plays D, rebounds and scores with efficiency on low usage. But Clarke has no chance whatsoever of being a franchise player.

If I understand what you mean by the term "franchise player" -- best player on at least a pretty good team? one of the top 2 on a very good team? -- then I understand why you don't think Clarke has a shot to be one. & since his numbers have fallen off a cliff this year, he certainly isn't establishing himself at that level!

OTOH, judging by the exact same criteria, I can't imagine why you would give Rui Hachimura much shot of that at this point.

In fact, how much has Rui improved so far this year?

Well, he is shooting somewhat better & getting to the line more, but his TS% remains below average for an NBA PF -- that's average of ALL 4s in the league, not average of starters. Still... he's better at scoring the ball, no question about it.

OTOH, he's fouling more, blocking zero shots, & rebounding a lot worse than last year -- since he didn't rebound well last year, that's a problem.

Rui is averaging 5.5 rebounds per 40 minutes. That's less than average for an NBA shooting guard. It's 55% of average for an NBA 4. & he's also worse overall on the other stuff.

Thus, overall, Rui has improved a little, but not much. He is nowhere near starter level, not in the same neighborhood. As to "franchise player" ...?... I'm not sure you're doing him any favors by draping that kind of expectation around his shoulders.

payitforward wrote:

nate33 wrote:

tontoz wrote:I haven't been that impressed with what i have seen from him so far. I think he can score well inside but i struggle to see what else he does well.

One thing he can do is go get a bucket. You can just give him the ball and he is able to get a decent shot up. That's a relatively rare skill for a big man. At this point, it's not that useful of a skill because getting up a "decent shot" isn't as good as running a good offensive set and getting up a "good shot". Basically, he's only good as a respectable bail out option at the end of the 24 second clock, or maybe as a primary option on the 2nd unit.

But if Hachimura can get a little bit better in shot creation so that he can get a bucket in isolation with a percentage as high as league average or better, then he could become a legitimate first option scorer - a guy you can base your offense around.

It's a fine line. A guy who can get a bucket in isolation at just below league accuracy isn't very useful at all. But a guy who can get a bucket in isolation at just above league accuracy becomes indispensable - a franchise-caliber player. I don't know if Hachimura can get to that point, but it's a possibility. Someone like Brandon Clarke is clearly a much better role player and might well have the better career as a 4th or 5th option starter who plays D, rebounds and scores with efficiency on low usage. But Clarke has no chance whatsoever of being a franchise player.

If I understand what you mean by the term "franchise player" -- best player on at least a pretty good team? one of the top 2 on a very good team? -- then I understand why you don't think Clarke has a shot to be one. & since his numbers have fallen off a cliff this year, he certainly isn't establishing himself at that level!

OTOH, judging by the exact same criteria, I can't imagine why you would give Rui Hachimura much shot of that at this point.

In fact, how much has Rui improved so far this year?

Well, he is shooting somewhat better & getting to the line more, but his TS% remains below average for an NBA PF -- that's average of ALL 4s in the league, not average of starters. Still... he's better at scoring the ball, no question about it.

OTOH, he's fouling more, blocking zero shots, & rebounding a lot worse than last year -- since he didn't rebound well last year, that's a problem.

Rui is averaging 5.5 rebounds per 40 minutes. That's less than average for an NBA shooting guard. It's 55% of average for an NBA 4. & he's also worse overall on the other stuff.

Thus, overall, Rui has improved a little, but not much. He is nowhere near starter level, not in the same neighborhood. As to "franchise player" ...?... I'm not sure you're doing him any favors by draping that kind of expectation around his shoulders.

I don't think I was at all unclear in making my point. Please re-read my final paragraph.

DCZards wrote:

NatP4 wrote:I keep saying it, Rui should be moved to the wing permanently. His best chance at being a quality NBA player that helps your team win is being a 3. His rebounding is awful for a big. He just stands there and watches while smaller players aggressively crash the glass for offensive rebounds. He doesn’t protect the rim at all. His skillset resembles a small forward.

He needs to focus on his spot up 3pt shot and guarding on the perimeter.

I had this same opinion until this season. I too thought Ruiz’s best position might be SF.

But his ability to bang bodies and score down low, along with his stronger, bigger body, has convinced me that Rui’s best position is PF.

I believe Ruiz’s presence in the paint helped make Bryant better and more effective.

Rui no doubt needs to become a better rebounder and improving his 3pt shooting is also a must.

I’m not all that concerned about his rim protection. That’s a role I’d like to see a C fill.

You must have Auto Correct on, Zards -- we got Ruiz twice!! I like that name: Ruiz Hachimura: a Hispano-Japanese basketball player!

As to his helping make Bryant better: I see no evidence of that at all. Bryant put up his best numbers as a Wizard in 2018-19 -- before Rui was on the team (look at the numbers yourself: https://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/3282-thomas-bryant).

Between last year & this year, the only bump was in his 3-point shooting. In any case, he only got 270 minutes before the injury, so this year's numbers aren't much of a metric. Still, nothing in them points to the influence of Rui.

Now... you'd have to look a little closer anyway -- at the games he played after Rui returned. Maybe there's something there....

nate33 wrote:

payitforward wrote:

nate33 wrote:...a guy who can get a bucket in isolation at just above league accuracy becomes indispensable - a franchise-caliber player. I don't know if Hachimura can get to that point, but it's a possibility....

If I understand what you mean by the term "franchise player" -- best player on at least a pretty good team? one of the top 2 on a very good team? -- then I understand why you don't think Clarke has a shot to be one. & since his numbers have fallen off a cliff this year, he certainly isn't establishing himself at that level!

OTOH, judging by the exact same criteria, I can't imagine why you would give Rui Hachimura much shot of that at this point.....

I don't think I was at all unclear in making my point. Please re-read my final paragraph.

Fair enough. I glossed over your definition of what you mean by "franchise player. If it means "a guy who can get a bucket in isolation at just above league accuracy," then to be sure Rui has a chance to do that.

I don't see how that restricted definition would be enough for a person to apply a phrase that seems one of pure praise, since it would obviously be possible for a player to meet that criterion yet be so short of, say, league averages in enough other areas that there wouldn't necessarily be general agreement with (or, for that matter, supporting analytics for) the claim.

But, I might be wrong about that. It might be interesting to look at what players in the league do or don't deserve the tag.

None of which is to say that Rui can't become an outstanding player across the board -- not just in your focused criterion. He can. He hasn't yet, but he's still only 22. If you look at what DeAndre Hunter is doing this year compared his rookie year, it's obvious from his case alone that guys can take enormous jumps in skills & productivity across the board in their early years in the league.

I came across this on the Twitter:



Hachimura showing significant statistical improvement over last year. At the moment, he is the 15th most improved player in the league by the LEBRON metric. (And before you ask PIF, I have no idea wtf the LEBRON metric is or how it's calculated.)

Gentle reminder that Rui has played a grand total of 62 games as a professional NBA player. I know some here would have you believe he's been here a while.

payitforward wrote:

nate33 wrote:

payitforward wrote:
None of which is to say that Rui can't become an outstanding player across the board -- not just in your focused criterion. He can. He hasn't yet, but he's still only 22. If you look at what DeAndre Hunter is doing this year compared his rookie year, it's obvious from his case alone that guys can take enormous jumps in skills & productivity across the board in their early years in the league.

He was literally born yesterday - 23 years ago.

We missed the cake.

nate33 wrote:I came across this on the Twitter:

Read on Twitter

Hachimura showing significant statistical improvement over last year. At the moment, he is the 15th most improved player in the league by the LEBRON metric. (And before you ask PIF, I have no idea wtf the LEBRON metric is or how it's calculated.)

Must not value rebounding or scoring efficiency

55% TS while shooting 70% at the rim, 40% from mid range, and 37% from 3 is impressive.
Im seeing a guy, despite his poor rebounding and lack of awareness on defense, that can score from everywhere and never turns it over (AST:TOV of 2:1).

I dont care if a guy can grab rebounds and shot open 3's in the corner. His ceiling is limited.
Rui doesnt need to 'Expand' his game. He just needs to continue to let the game slow down a bit defensively and stay aggressive on offense.
Again, He draws fouls, scores from everywhere, and rarely makes mistakes. If someone wants to point to analytics and say Bonga is a better player then they dont watch the game.

pcbothwel wrote:55% TS while shooting 70% at the rim, 40% from mid range, and 37% from 3 is impressive.
Im seeing a guy, despite his poor rebounding and lack of awareness on defense, that can score from everywhere and never turns it over (AST:TOV of 2:1).

I dont care if a guy can grab rebounds and shot open 3's in the corner. His ceiling is limited.
Rui doesnt need to 'Expand' his game. He just needs to continue to let the game slow down a bit defensively and stay aggressive on offense.
Again, He draws fouls, scores from everywhere, and rarely makes mistakes. If someone wants to point to analytics and say Bonga is a better player then they dont watch the game.

Bonga>>>Rui has already been advanced by some on this board.

He’s basically an inferior version of Kyle kuzma without the 3 ball. I’m not seeing a starting quality player at the point.

TGW wrote:He’s basically an inferior version of Kyle kuzma without the 3 ball. I’m not seeing a starting quality player at the point.

Lol...
Rui is shooting 37% from 3 and has a TS of 55%, both of which are better than anything Kuzma has done in his career.
Rui averages 50% more assist along with 40% less turnovers
Rui shoots 70% at the rim, 40% from mid range, and 37% from 3. All better than Kuzma
Rui has a FTAr of 39%, while Kuzma is done at an anemic 9%

Both are bad defensively, but Rui at least shows flashes.

If you cant see the offensive canvas Rui has to work with vs Kyle freaking Kuzma, then I cant help you.

pcbothwel wrote:

TGW wrote:He’s basically an inferior version of Kyle kuzma without the 3 ball. I’m not seeing a starting quality player at the point.

Lol...
Rui is shooting 37% from 3 and has a TS of 55%, both of which are better than anything Kuzma has done in his career.
Rui averages 50% more assist along with 40% less turnovers
Rui shoots 70% at the rim, 40% from mid range, and 37% from 3. All better than Kuzma
Rui has a FTAr of 39%, while Kuzma is done at an anemic 9%

Both are bad defensively, but Rui at least shows flashes.

If you cant see the offensive canvas Rui has to work with vs Kyle freaking Kuzma, then I cant help you.

And yet, they both have similar PERs. Anyway, color me unimpressed with Rui. There is nothing special about his game.

pcbothwel wrote:

TGW wrote:He’s basically an inferior version of Kyle kuzma without the 3 ball. I’m not seeing a starting quality player at the point.

Lol...
Rui is shooting 37% from 3 and has a TS of 55%, both of which are better than anything Kuzma has done in his career.
Rui averages 50% more assist along with 40% less turnovers
Rui shoots 70% at the rim, 40% from mid range, and 37% from 3. All better than Kuzma
Rui has a FTAr of 39%, while Kuzma is done at an anemic 9%

Both are bad defensively, but Rui at least shows flashes.

If you cant see the offensive canvas Rui has to work with vs Kyle freaking Kuzma, then I cant help you.

Kuzma is almost 26 and has 233 games under his belt over 4 seasons. Rui just turned 23 and has 62 career games under his belt.

nate33 wrote:I came across this on the Twitter:

Read on Twitter

Hachimura showing significant statistical improvement over last year. At the moment, he is the 15th most improved player in the league by the LEBRON metric. (And before you ask PIF, I have no idea wtf the LEBRON metric is or how it's calculated.)

Well, there's a link to some verbiage about what it is. In the end, it seems entirely dependent on RAPM -- which is, in itself, completely meaningless (I've linked to articles debunking it, won't try to re-find them now).

In any case, anything that praises Rui will of course draw some head-nods here, & that is to be expected & as it should be.

For a quick check on this, look at a different player: Semi Ojeleye comes out as the 6th most improved player this year (i.e. way above Rui), but when I look at his numbers this year & last, there is next to no difference between them -- & what difference there is would seem to indicate a very slight drop this year! Yet, a few above Ojeleye sits DeAndre Hunter, & a glance at his numbers makes it obvious that he (unlike Ojeleye) has made an enormous jump this year.

In short, I'd say this metric is meaningless. Anyway, who needs it: it claims that the numbers show Rui as improved -- but the numbers are there for you all to look at. It should be obvious in what way Rui has improved just by looking at them directly. Whoever wants to should make a case.

I'll start: Rui's TS% has jumped from 53.5% as a rookie to 55% this year. That improvement is based on 2 factors: Rui's 3-point % is up & he's getting to the line more. OTOH, that improved TS% remains below average for an NBA 4, which is 58%. Rui's assists are also up.

Those are the improvements in Rui's numbers. Other numbers are more or less unchanged: fouls, turnovers, blocked shots. But, his defensive rebounds are down, his offensive rebounds are down, & his steals are down. Overall, it seems hard to see his numbers as having improved -- & that is the claim made by LEBRON: it's calculated on these kinds of numbers.

Of course he may have improved in ways that don't show in the numbers. But, those improvements wouldn't impact LEBRON, so... ??

Rui is meh.

I'm gonna keep saying it until, hopefully, I'm proven wrong. He's a reliable scorer off the bench but nothing special. I do note, the Wizards TEND TO WIN when he plays 28 or more minutes, FWIW.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Rui is meh.

I'm gonna keep saying it until, hopefully, I'm proven wrong. He's a reliable scorer off the bench but nothing special. I do note, the Wizards TEND TO WIN when he plays 28 or more minutes, FWIW.

His midrange game is smooth. He's gotten better from 3. I think his on ball defense has gotten a lot better especially when he focuses.

Unfortunately, too many lapses defensively happen and he isn't much of a rebounder.

Those last two are effort and it's hard to play hard when you see beal dropping 45 in a loss every night


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gambitx777 wrote:Those last two are effort and it's hard to play hard when you see beal dropping 45 in a loss every night

If Rui doesn't want to see Beal dropping 45 in a loss then he needs to play better so that those Ls become Ws. BB is doing his part.

If it's "hard to play hard" then you shouldn't be in the NBA making millions.