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Rui Hachimura

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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1741 » by nate33 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:24 pm

NatP4 wrote:
nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Players that have a better on/off than Hachimura in 2020-2021:

1. Ish Smith
2. Mo Wagner
3. Davis Bertans
4. Deni Avdija
5. Thomas Bryant
6. Bradley Beal
7. Isaac Bonga
8. Robin Lopez
9. Troy Brown Jr
10. Alex Len


This is false

Image

Only 7 guys have a higher on/off differential, and four of them haven't even played 400 total minutes so their differentials are heavily influenced by garbage time in games out of contention against third stringers.

The only guys with at least 400 minutes played (or 500 if you'd prefer a nice round number) with a better on/off differential are Bertans, Avdija and Beal. He is doing better than Neto, Lopez, Len, Mathews and Westbrook.

And as I've pointed out several times now, Rui is getting substantially better as the season wears on. He used to be at -5.0 rather than +1.3.



https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612764/onoffcourt-summary/?sort=DIFF_NET_RATING&dir=1

Not sure why NBA.com is different, maybe they update later?

Good question. I can't figure it out.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1742 » by dckingsfan » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:16 pm

Spoiler:
dckingsfan wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:This is the most interesting part of this thread. The notion that Rui could eventually be a SF.

It does seem like he can cover SFs on the perimeter. And he rebounds like a wing :wink:

On the offensive side if/when he starts consistently knocking down 3s he would be really good (IMO) as a SF in the offense.

And that brings us to Deni or the "new" PF. Deni rebounds like a PF but doesn't alter or block shots like one. Now, he is 20, so I expect to see the defensive rebounding go up over time.

Either way, it seems like we are going to have the dreaded "redundant" problem with Rui/Avdija. I guess that isn't optimistic though.

It's a good discussion of whether or not there's a department of redundant redundancies and how to minimize the negatives while accentuating the positives. To do so, the need for a shot-blocker was obvious, and that has partially been addressed with Gafford. And when all 3 can nail 3's, that goes a long way. Still, they all have to prove they're quality 3 point shooters - which may or may not happen.

Hmmm tridundant, hadn't considered that one :wink:

All I said was tridundant and boom, the thread explodes :D
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1743 » by payitforward » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:47 pm

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:Beal was a lot better than Hachimura in his first few seasons and exploded at age 23 (same age as Hachimura currently)

Go look at their numbers. This is a comparison between Rui's 2nd season at age 22, and Beal's 3rd season at age 21
Image

Note that Beal had a TS% of .527 while Rui's is .563. Also factor that Rui is a better defender.

It's easy to forget that Beal really was not very good his first few years. He looked good (like Rui does), but he was pretty ineffective statistically.

There are also many players who aren't very good their first few years, including guys picked high in the draft, who never become very good. Thus, this comparison is obviously completely meaningless! It indicates nothing whatever about Rui -- neither anything real nor anything potential.

Brad was taken #3 in 2012, but Dion Waiters was taken #4. Thomas Robinson went #5. Austin Rivers was taken #10. Why aren't you using Waiters or Robinson or Rivers as models for Rui's development?

Just as in the case of Beal, a *negative* comparison of Rui with Waiters/Robinson/Rivers would also be meaningless.

A player can only be good if his numbers are good, because that is what it means to be a good basketball player -- this is not ballet. We are not making an aesthetic judgment. What makes LeBron great is that he puts up great numbers. What it means to say that Troy Brown Jr. did not play well this year is that he put up bad numbers. Period.

When nate said he was encouraged, b/c Rui had just played well overall in his last seven games, he pointed out that Rui's numbers had improved in those games. He didn't say Rui had danced really well! Numbers.

If we ask "was Rui Hachimura good as a rookie?," what we are asking about is the numbers he put up. We are not asking about his performance as if it was a floor routine in gymnastics. Nobody is holding up a sign with "10" on it. Rui created the "sign" -- his numbers.

The answer is, "no, Rui Hachimura was not good as a rookie," which means he did not put up good numbers. If you think he did, then to put the matter simply you are just plain wrong, because he didn't. Go look at the numbers.

Before we ask the question "is Rui Hachimura good as a 2d year player?" it would be natural to ask a related question: "has Rui Hachimura gotten better as a 2d year player?" I.e. better than he was as a rookie.

The answer to that is to look at his numbers as a second year player. If the numbers are better, then yes he has gotten better. If the numbers are not better, then he has not gotten better. Period.

So, you tell me -- have Rui's numbers gotten better this year? Overall, that is -- on balance. I.e. is he scoring more points or fewer? Is he scoring more efficiently or less efficiently? Is he grabbing more defensive rebounds or fewer? More offensive boards or fewer? Is he getting more assists or fewer? How about blocks? Steals? Turnovers? Fouls?
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1744 » by payitforward » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:01 pm

Here is a hint: per 36 minutes this year Rui is getting 5.8 defensive rebounds. Last year, he got 5.4. That means Rui is a better defensive rebounder this year than last. That's a way Rui has improved.

Here's another hint: per 36 minutes this year, Rui is scoring 15.6 points at a TS% of .563. Last year, Rui scored 16.2 points per 36 miniutes at a TS% of .535. That's just slightly fewer points (a little worse than last year) but at a TS% that is better than last year. Overall, that's a way Rui has improved.

Now, just go through all the other numbers: assists, steals, blocks, fouls, offensive boards.

That's it, folks. That's all there is.
Remember -- if you don't like the post above: blame Doc not me.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1745 » by Ruzious » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:08 pm

payitforward wrote:Here is a hint: per 36 minutes this year Rui is getting 5.8 defensive rebounds. Last year, he got 5.4. That means Rui is a better defensive rebounder this year than last. That's a way Rui has improved.

Here's another hint: per 36 minutes this year, Rui is scoring 15.6 points at a TS% of .563. Last year, Rui scored 16.2 points per 36 miniutes at a TS% of .535. That's just slightly fewer points (a little worse than last year) but at a TS% that is better than last year. Overall, that's a way Rui has improved.

Now, just go through all the other numbers: assists, steals, blocks, fouls, offensive boards.

That's it, folks. That's all there is.

That's in a bubble. However, they don't play in a bubble. Those numbers are still useful, but adding Westbrook changed everything.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1746 » by DCZards » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:14 pm

payitforward wrote:Here is a hint: per 36 minutes this year Rui is getting 5.8 defensive rebounds. Last year, he got 5.4. That means Rui is a better defensive rebounder this year than last. That's a way Rui has improved.

Here's another hint: per 36 minutes this year, Rui is scoring 15.6 points at a TS% of .563. Last year, Rui scored 16.2 points per 36 miniutes at a TS% of .535. That's just slightly fewer points (a little worse than last year) but at a TS% that is better than last year. Overall, that's a way Rui has improved.

Now, just go through all the other numbers: assists, steals, blocks, fouls, offensive boards.

That's it, folks. That's all there is.

“Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.”
— Albert Einstein
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1747 » by WallToWall » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:27 pm

payitforward wrote:Here is a hint: per 36 minutes this year Rui is getting 5.8 defensive rebounds. Last year, he got 5.4. That means Rui is a better defensive rebounder this year than last. That's a way Rui has improved.

Here's another hint: per 36 minutes this year, Rui is scoring 15.6 points at a TS% of .563. Last year, Rui scored 16.2 points per 36 miniutes at a TS% of .535. That's just slightly fewer points (a little worse than last year) but at a TS% that is better than last year. Overall, that's a way Rui has improved.

Now, just go through all the other numbers: assists, steals, blocks, fouls, offensive boards.

That's it, folks. That's all there is.
We must also look at it in context. Rui played the majority of his time against non-starters last year. This year, he has been playing mostly against starters. Weaker competition can inflate the numbers....and/or stronger competition can deflate the numbers.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1748 » by payitforward » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:48 pm

DCZards wrote:
payitforward wrote:Here is a hint: per 36 minutes this year Rui is getting 5.8 defensive rebounds. Last year, he got 5.4. That means Rui is a better defensive rebounder this year than last. That's a way Rui has improved.

Here's another hint: per 36 minutes this year, Rui is scoring 15.6 points at a TS% of .563. Last year, Rui scored 16.2 points per 36 miniutes at a TS% of .535. That's just slightly fewer points (a little worse than last year) but at a TS% that is better than last year. Overall, that's a way Rui has improved.

Now, just go through all the other numbers: assists, steals, blocks, fouls, offensive boards.

That's it, folks. That's all there is.

“Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.”
— Albert Einstein

I knew I could "count" on you, Zards! :) & both you & Einstein are certainly right. For example, how good Rui is or will be can't be determined by measuring his height. So, you bet, that can be counted, but it doesn't count.

& Rui's ability to work with his coaches & teammates counts but can't be counted.

But, tell me, if I said that the only way to know how big a piece of glass to buy to fix a broken window was to measure it, i.e. numbers, would you also quote Einstein to prove that I wasn't right? :)

& if I said that something other than who has the most points when the horn sounds will determine who won the game, would you quote Einstein to back me up?

Basketball is an artifice, a made-up thing which was created so that the only measures determining wins/losses are numbers. & the way a team is good is expressed in its record -- i.e. numbers. Those numbers are produced by the players if I remember rightly.

In the larger universe, of course, there is much which cannot be measured with numbers, & there are many numbers that measure nothing. How good a person Rui is, for example, can't be calculated from numbers. Beauty is not a number. Intelligence is not a number.

But when Einstein read the score for a Beethoven violin sonata, & the indicated note was played with the index finger of his left hand on the 3d stop of the 2d string, he didn't tell the score that numbers don't count.

How Rui plays tells how good he is --which it expresses as numbers.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1749 » by payitforward » Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:45 pm

WallToWall wrote:
payitforward wrote:Here is a hint: per 36 minutes this year Rui is getting 5.8 defensive rebounds. Last year, he got 5.4. That means Rui is a better defensive rebounder this year than last. That's a way Rui has improved.

Here's another hint: per 36 minutes this year, Rui is scoring 15.6 points at a TS% of .563. Last year, Rui scored 16.2 points per 36 miniutes at a TS% of .535. That's just slightly fewer points (a little worse than last year) but at a TS% that is better than last year. Overall, that's a way Rui has improved.

Now, just go through all the other numbers: assists, steals, blocks, fouls, offensive boards.

That's it, folks. That's all there is.
We must also look at it in context. Rui played the majority of his time against non-starters last year. This year, he has been playing mostly against starters. Weaker competition can inflate the numbers....and/or stronger competition can deflate the numbers.

We do have to look at it in context, but in this case you are incorrect -- Rui started from the first day last year. In fact, given that he plays slight more minutes per game this year than last, you could argue that he plays more time agains backups this year than last.

But, I tell you what... I take the whole thing back. It's much better for everyone to imagine that Rui has really improved a lot this year. In fact, so has Beal. & of course, last year we didn't have a starting PG really, while this year we have Russ.

All these positive things are the reason we are so much better this year. Of course, I'm sure no one would want to give Rui all the credit for the massive improvement in the Washington Wizards. But, still... just look at how we're doing, & it'll be obvious he's a future star. Well on his way.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1750 » by Shoe » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:54 am

Rui is getting better and better and it's making some people very nervous
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1751 » by nate33 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:06 am

Shoe wrote:Rui is getting better and better and it's making some people very nervous

Last 9 games:

29 points, 11 rebounds
22 points, 7 rebounds
17 points, 9 rebounds
12 points, 7 rebounds
20 points, 10 rebounds
11 points, 7 rebounds
21 points, 9 rebounds
14 points, 6 rebounds
26 points, 8 rebounds
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1752 » by gambitx777 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:41 am

Rui is looking like a legit starter !
nate33 wrote:
Shoe wrote:Rui is getting better and better and it's making some people very nervous

Last 9 games:

29 points, 11 rebounds
22 points, 7 rebounds
17 points, 9 rebounds
12 points, 7 rebounds
20 points, 10 rebounds
11 points, 7 rebounds
21 points, 9 rebounds
14 points, 6 rebounds
26 points, 8 rebounds


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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1753 » by WallToWall » Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:24 am

Pacers game...Rui ran out of juice after the 3rd Q. He posted 24 pts and 7 rbs after 3 quarters, rested a long stretch, and then wasnt as much of a presence in the 4th. Still finishing with 26 pts on 12/24 shooting, and 8 rbs is good.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1754 » by The Consiglieri » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:41 am

prime1time wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Fwiw, many Bucks fans are convinced Rui will be a star. viewtopic.php?p=89883348#p89883348

This is why some teams win and some teams lose. While your debating if Rui's a good player, other teams see his potential and pounce. The dude has all the skills to be a great player.


This is one of the rare instances where I tend to side with your positivity over the general boards negativity (in the past in particular). When all I can track down are props from players, and media types talking to scouts etc, I'm gonna lean that way a bit over the other way with fans who just didn't rate him, or were dead set on landing a very specific player that wasn't him. He seems bound and determined to hit a lot of the upside/ceiling talk that many scout types, and mediots and players were suggesting he'd be over the past 18-22 months or so. By early this year, it definitely felt like he was no longer a reach and rather one of the safer picks outside of the big 2 in '19, and now he's looking even better than that. Where would he go in a redraft of the 2019 draft these days? I wonder.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1755 » by payitforward » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:49 pm

I have to check something, I hope you won't mind: last year, Rui got to the line 3.5 times per 36 minutes, while this year, Rui has gotten to the line 3.6 times per 36 minutes.

Has Rui improved at getting to the line, stayed the same, or gotten worse? Which one is it?

Last year, Rui shot .829 from the line, while this year he's shot .769.

Has Rui improved as a free throw shooter, stayed the same, or gotten worse? Which one is it?

Here's another player, not going to mention his name: this year, he has gotten to the line 7.5 times per 36 minutes & has shot .893 from the line.

Is this player better at getting to the line than Rui? Or can't you answer that question without knowing his name? Is he better at shooting FTs than Rui -- or do you need to know his name before you can answer that question?

OTOH, this player has shot 2 pt. FGAs at .484, while Rui has shot about the same number of them at .528.

Is Rui better than this player overall at scoring on 2-pointers? Or do you need to know the player's name to answer the question?
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1756 » by MDStar » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:03 pm

payitforward wrote:I have to check something, I hope you won't mind: last year, Rui got to the line 3.5 times per 36 minutes, while this year, Rui has gotten to the line 3.6 times per 36 minutes.

Has Rui improved at getting to the line, stayed the same, or gotten worse? Which one is it?

Last year, Rui shot .829 from the line, while this year he's shot .769.

Has Rui improved as a free throw shooter, stayed the same, or gotten worse? Which one is it?

Here's another player, not going to mention his name: this year, he has gotten to the line 7.5 times per 36 minutes & has shot .893 from the line.

Is this player better at getting to the line than Rui? Or can't you answer that question without knowing his name? Is he better at shooting FTs than Rui -- or do you need to know his name before you can answer that question?

OTOH, this player has shot 2 pt. FGAs at .484, while Rui has shot about the same number of them at .528.

Is Rui better than this player overall at scoring on 2-pointers? Or do you need to know the player's name to answer the question?


PIF, while your season comparisons are very insightful and goes to support the point that you're making about Rui not really being much improved between year 1 and year 2, I would like to know if your view of his last 9-10 games, roughly 33% of his total game played thus far, would indicate an improved and yet still improving player?
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1757 » by WallToWall » Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:26 am

Against the Hornets, Rui played over 40 mins, and went 12/25 (48.0%), 1/2 (50.0%) on 3-pointers, and 5/5 on FT, for 30 points. Added 4 rbs, and 3 assists. A pretty good performance. He was asked to be the primary or secondary scorer in this game and he responded well.
Over the last 10 games, he is averaging 20.2ppg, 7.8 rpg. Clearly, he has stepped it up a notch, over the last 10 games. Hopefully this is the new normal for him.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1758 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:07 am

Look at Bradley Beal’s scoring progression from his first and second to this season and last’s.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1759 » by FAH1223 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:29 am

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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#1760 » by JWizmentality » Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:45 am

How would ya'll like your plate of crow?

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