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Rui Hachimura

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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#961 » by tontoz » Fri Dec 6, 2019 6:48 pm

He is challenging shots near the rim far more frequently now. First few games he looked like a spectator at times.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#962 » by wall_glizzy » Fri Dec 6, 2019 7:04 pm

payitforward wrote:I'm sure you agree that it would be easy to name some outstanding 4s who are really good rebounders. What I can't think of is some outstanding 4s who are poor rebounders. If you could name a few, I'd see that as a contribution to my understanding. I'm skeptical that you can.

I'd be equally interested in your list of guys who make a practice of "going for their own rebounds at the expense of the team...."


This is a mix of 4s and 5s, but I suppose we'd agree that rebounding is even more crucial for centers. Steven Adams and Brook Lopez are both known to have had lower-than-average rebounding numbers as part of a team rebounding scheme that prioritized their boxing out to provide space for a teammate to grab the actual rebound (although since moving to the Bucks, Lopez's low rebound numbers have more to do with the fact that he's stationed way out past the line).

On the other hand, Kevin Love had a reputation for being a defensive minus in part because he would often fall short on challenging a shot at the rim in order to be in better position to grab the rebound. Similar claims were made about Deandre Jordan while on the Mavs and towards the end of his Clippers tenure. I know people have called the actual value of Drummond's offensive rebounding into question because it tends to involve a lot of blown putbacks or something, but that one's a slightly different matter (and more speculative).

In short, to paraphrase LeBron, a rebound isn't a rebound... I'll explain later.

To be clear, I have no idea where Rui falls within this. The relevant statistic we want here is the team rebounding rate with Rui on and off the court, but I'm having some trouble finding it - there used to be a great resource called NBAwowy that would provide exactly this, but it appears to have shut down.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#963 » by wall_glizzy » Fri Dec 6, 2019 7:12 pm

Update: I actually just found NBAwowy! It lives here now (and requires an account :/ ) if you guys are interested: https://www.addmorefunds.com/nba/wowy

With Rui on the court, the team has a 21.5% offensive rebounding rate, 72.7% defensive rebounding rate, and 46.3% total rebounding rate.
With Rui off the court, the team has a 21.7% offensive rebounding rate, 79.2% defensive rebounding rate, and 48.9% total rebounding rate.

Small sample, but that's definitely a significant difference on the defensive end - certainly fair to think that defensive rebounding, either at an individual level or as part of a team scheme, could be an area in which Rui might look to improve.

Worth nothing (edit: noting*, lol), too, that we're the worst-rebounding team in the league either way - our aggregate mark of 47.3% is 30th out of 30, and even our entirely Rui-less mark of 48.9% would only raise us to a three-way tie for 21st with Sacramento and Atlanta. Source: https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/total-rebounding-percentage.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#964 » by payitforward » Fri Dec 6, 2019 7:28 pm

How'd you manage to type in all those characters accurately, Ruz? I'm impressed!

I checked who among rookies were PFs (or maybe Cs): Bazley, Bitadze, Clarke, Fernando, Hachimura, Hayes, Little, Paschall, Silva, Washington, Williams. That's 11 guys. Then I changed the minutes slightly in order to include everybody on the list.

Sorting by TRB%, Rui is #8 of 11.
Sorting by DRB%, he's #7.
Sorting by ORB%, he's #8 again.

That done, I ask you seriously, Ruz: what is the point of this? You know & I know that 7.9 rebounds per 40 minutes will not cut it to become the outstanding PF we'd all like Rui to be. Or, to put it another way, neither you nor I can name an outstanding PF in the NBA who rebounds at that level.

Which means that -- as I said (all I said) -- Rui needs to improve his rebounding.
DUH!
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#965 » by payitforward » Fri Dec 6, 2019 7:51 pm

edit -- without meaning to, I showed how tiresome I find the constant Rui-coronation, by a somewhat frustrated tone below. Wall_Glizzy, my apologies. You actually do treat the subject objectively -- it's not your post that vexed me but rather the bombardment that it was part of.

wall_glizzy wrote:
payitforward wrote:I'm sure you agree that it would be easy to name some outstanding 4s who are really good rebounders. What I can't think of is some outstanding 4s who are poor rebounders. If you could name a few, I'd see that as a contribution to my understanding. I'm skeptical that you can.

I'd be equally interested in your list of guys who make a practice of "going for their own rebounds at the expense of the team...."

This is a mix of 4s and 5s, but I suppose we'd agree that rebounding is even more crucial for centers. Steven Adams and Brook Lopez are both known to have had lower-than-average rebounding numbers as part of a team rebounding scheme that prioritized their boxing out to provide space for a teammate to grab the actual rebound ...

Sigh... I guess it's not ok to suggest that Rui will have to improve anything at all to become an outstanding player, huh? It's heresy.

I tell you what it is... it's weird.

Rui's a really talented kid. It's obvious. He has a shot to be an outstanding NBA player. But, he is going to have to improve his rebounding.

That said, of course there are good NBA 4s who "have had lower-than-average rebounding numbers"!! How could there not be? To be good at something, say PF, means to be better than average at the sum of all the stuff involved in doing it. It doesn't mean to be better than average at everything. How f-ing obvious is that? But there aren't any who get 7.9 boards per 40 minutes. Sorry, but no.

& just for a little reality check on what you write above: On his career, Steven Adams gets over 46% more rebounds per 40 minutes than Rui is getting as a rookie. In fact, Steven Adams is not a "lower-than-average" rebounder at all. In fact, he is a slightly above average rebounder for NBA big.

Moreover, on his career, Brook Lopez -- while boxing out for someone else to get the board -- is still a stronger rebounder than Rui.

It's not heresy: Rui Hachimura is going to have to improve his rebounding. &, you know what? He can. Giannis did -- hugely. Why can't Rui?
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#966 » by wall_glizzy » Fri Dec 6, 2019 7:56 pm

Mate I'm agreeing with you, read the next post. I'm also just giving you some examples, which you asked for, of players whose rebounding is alleged to be either lower than it could be based on a team scheme or potentially higher than is ideal because of some sort of individual greediness. Neither are totally novel profiles (although yes, in the case of Adams - an excellent rebounder in any scheme - I should have said "reduced" instead of "lower-than-average").
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#967 » by payitforward » Fri Dec 6, 2019 7:57 pm

wall_glizzy wrote:Mate I'm agreeing with you, read the next post. I'm also just giving you some examples, which you asked for, of players whose rebounding is alleged to be either lower than it could be based on a team scheme or potentially higher than is ideal because of some sort of individual greediness. Neither are totally novel profiles (although yes, in the case of Adams - an excellent rebounder in any scheme - I should have said "lower-than-possible/natural" instead of "lower-than-average").

Yup. & I saw this after posting my edit above!
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#968 » by wall_glizzy » Fri Dec 6, 2019 7:59 pm

payitforward wrote:Yup. & I saw this after posting my edit above!


Ah, we're all out of sorts now. A note to future readers: consider reading this page of the forum from the outside-in, rather than chronologically.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#969 » by pinkman7382 » Fri Dec 6, 2019 8:44 pm

Read on Twitter



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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#970 » by Illmatic12 » Fri Dec 6, 2019 8:51 pm

tontoz wrote:He is challenging shots near the rim far more frequently now. First few games he looked like a spectator at times.

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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#971 » by BearlyBallin » Fri Dec 6, 2019 9:24 pm

nate33 wrote:
BearlyBallin wrote:

I missed most of the game. The highlights suggest that Hachimura did a pretty decent job defensively when he was matched up with Embiid. He fronted the post and the team swarmed Embiid enough to force 8 turnovers.

Is that what happened? Was Hachimura holding his own against Embiid or did Embiid just push him under the basket? If Hachimura could hold his ground, then it looks like we ought to consider playing Hachimura a lot more at center. He was having his way offensively against a slow-footed counterpart.


To my old eyes it seemed that when Embiid got the ball with Rui defending, someone else (Bertans, Bonga, Smith, Brown...) would come over and try to strip, steal or hack Embiid. And this usually happened soon after Embiid started to make anything resembling an offensive move towards the basket. On the boards it seemed like it was a team effort to box Embiid out & gather the rebound. Still Embiid had 26 points & 21 rebounds. But to be honest I thought he would have easily gotten more if the Wizards hadn’t thrown 2 players at him. Not sure if I could say Rui held his own, but I also can’t say Embiid pushed him around because the Wiz hacked or stripped/stole the ball before Embiid had a chance to start banging.

On the offensive end Rui seemed to recognize he could get off his shot by just being quicker in general when his defender was Embiid. Caron Butler even commented on how Rui was taking full advantage of his quickness to score on the slower defender guarding him. At least that’s my perspective... but I’m Pro Rui, so definitely a biased point of view. :D
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#972 » by DCZards » Fri Dec 6, 2019 10:45 pm

From The Athletic.

“His bread and butter is the 17-, 18-foot shot, and he was taking them and he’s gonna make most of those when he’s wide open,” Brooks said. “I thought that’s another sign. You don’t have to go in there. Even though we want our 5s to roll — when he’s playing the 5, (Embiid would) be so far dropped, there’s no reason to roll right into him.”

Hachimura sank 11-of-18 shots against the Sixers. He’s shooting 47 percent on non-paint 2s this season, fifth-best in the NBA of anyone who’s attempted as many as him. He’s hitting 47 percent of pull-up jumpers, too, another elite figure.

If those looks are going to make up a large chunk of his shots, he’ll have to be one of the world’s best mid-range shooters. Brooks believes the numbers aren’t a fluke, that Hachimura can stay at this level.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#973 » by Mojo Amok » Fri Dec 6, 2019 11:05 pm

DCZards wrote:From The Athletic.

“His bread and butter is the 17-, 18-foot shot, and he was taking them and he’s gonna make most of those when he’s wide open,” Brooks said. “I thought that’s another sign. You don’t have to go in there. Even though we want our 5s to roll — when he’s playing the 5, (Embiid would) be so far dropped, there’s no reason to roll right into him.”

Hachimura sank 11-of-18 shots against the Sixers. He’s shooting 47 percent on non-paint 2s this season, fifth-best in the NBA of anyone who’s attempted as many as him. He’s hitting 47 percent of pull-up jumpers, too, another elite figure.

If those looks are going to make up a large chunk of his shots, he’ll have to be one of the world’s best mid-range shooters. Brooks believes the numbers aren’t a fluke, that Hachimura can stay at this level.


While not favored by analytics gurus, there was a fellow of some prominence who utilized those shots effectively in last years' playoffs, if I reklaw correctly.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#974 » by tontoz » Sat Dec 7, 2019 12:21 am

Mojo Amok wrote:
DCZards wrote:From The Athletic.

“His bread and butter is the 17-, 18-foot shot, and he was taking them and he’s gonna make most of those when he’s wide open,” Brooks said. “I thought that’s another sign. You don’t have to go in there. Even though we want our 5s to roll — when he’s playing the 5, (Embiid would) be so far dropped, there’s no reason to roll right into him.”

Hachimura sank 11-of-18 shots against the Sixers. He’s shooting 47 percent on non-paint 2s this season, fifth-best in the NBA of anyone who’s attempted as many as him. He’s hitting 47 percent of pull-up jumpers, too, another elite figure.

If those looks are going to make up a large chunk of his shots, he’ll have to be one of the world’s best mid-range shooters. Brooks believes the numbers aren’t a fluke, that Hachimura can stay at this level.


While not favored by analytics gurus, there was a fellow of some prominence who utilized those shots effectively in last years' playoffs, if I reklaw correctly.



Actually there were two, Kawhi and Durant.

In the playoffs the defense is more intense. It is harder to get good looks from 3 or near the rim so midrange shots go up in value.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#975 » by Illmatic12 » Sat Dec 7, 2019 6:02 pm

pinkman7382 wrote:A few observations from the first 5 games :

- Rui's shot looks different from summer league. He isn't extending the ball as far out as he did before. His shot should keep improving with time. He's been blocked several times around the basket. Brooks mentioned this as well.
- He is looking to shoot. Will pass occasionally but is not a willing passer yet. He needs to learn to pass out of double teams
- Defensively, he's been ok. He needs to get better at staying in front of his guy. There were times at Gonzaga he looked completely out of position which hasn't happened as often here. He hasn't fouled a lot which could be a good sign or could mean he's not being as aggressive
- His STL and BLK numbers are worrisome. Rookie forwards with STL and BLKS under 1.0 per 100 poss don't pan out well in the nba. This was a concern for him coming out of Gonzaga. Keep an eye on this.




pinkman7382 wrote:
pinkman7382 wrote:
Mizerooskie wrote:Interesting. Do you have a link to the data for this? I'd love to take a look.


Image

yeah it's here. http://bkref.com/tiny/FgiyW

After 600+ minutes , Rui’s stl % rate has stabilized at 1.3%. So far it looks like that particular concern is a non-issue.

His block rate of 0.4% is low , however worth noting that he had an uncredited block vs Orlando and another vs Phil (Yahoo fantasy even added them but took them off for some reason). He’s also picked up a few close goaltends as of late, which I think does show an increased effort in contesting at the rim. Worth tracking over a great sample size
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#976 » by DCZards » Sat Dec 7, 2019 7:33 pm

Mojo Amok wrote:
DCZards wrote:From The Athletic.

“His bread and butter is the 17-, 18-foot shot, and he was taking them and he’s gonna make most of those when he’s wide open,” Brooks said. “I thought that’s another sign. You don’t have to go in there. Even though we want our 5s to roll — when he’s playing the 5, (Embiid would) be so far dropped, there’s no reason to roll right into him.”

Hachimura sank 11-of-18 shots against the Sixers. He’s shooting 47 percent on non-paint 2s this season, fifth-best in the NBA of anyone who’s attempted as many as him. He’s hitting 47 percent of pull-up jumpers, too, another elite figure.

If those looks are going to make up a large chunk of his shots, he’ll have to be one of the world’s best mid-range shooters. Brooks believes the numbers aren’t a fluke, that Hachimura can stay at this level.


While not favored by analytics gurus, there was a fellow of some prominence who utilized those shots effectively in last years' playoffs, if I reklaw correctly.


...which is why a few days ago I highlighted this comment from Kawhi about Rui:

"He's good. He's very fundamentally sound. He has the tools to get to his spots. Once he gets more games under his belt, and finds his attack spots, he can only get better."


Kawhi, who may be the best in the game at finding his "attack spots," is right on target when he says that about Rui.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#977 » by payitforward » Sat Dec 7, 2019 8:25 pm

Rui has shown that he can play in the NBA -- at some level. He's not a bust, & he's not going to be one.

Has he shown that he can play well enough in the NBA to be, say, a really solid journeyman? No, sorry, he hasn't. By that I mean that there's no stretch of 5-7 games in which he's performed reasonably well over the whole stretch. But, he's a rookie! & a relatively inexperienced rookie at that, basketball-wise.

People got excited when he went for 30 & 27 in a pair of games. No one looked at the rest of what he did in those games. No one looked at the fact that the previous 4 games he'd averaged 11 points/game. Today no one mentions that he went 6-15 & 6 boards in 39 minutes last night.

That's fine. It's just the way fans are. Right now fans here are saving their fire for Troy Brown (who's playing a whole lot better than Rui! Playing very well in fact). Last year, Troy was the rookie: everybody loved him. He was a great pick. This year Rui is the "great pick."

Fine. Fans. Hey, someone here was crowning RoY about 4 games into the season! :)

Is Kawhi right that Rui will "get better" with "more games under his belt?" Of course! As will P.J. Washington. As will Nassir Little. As will Ja Morant & Admiral Schofield. As will most every NBA rookie. Be kind of weird if one couldn't feel some confidence in that kind of statement.

What can we learn from Kawhi's comment about the kind of, quality of, player Rui Hachimura will be? Nothing. Not a thing.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#978 » by youngWizzy » Sat Dec 7, 2019 8:57 pm

An underrated part of his game is his free throw shooting 33/38 (87%). Rui seems like a really good play as a small ball 5 as he can run up and down the court and front defenders in the post. His awareness in terms of switching on pick and rolls has been really bad yet still improving.
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#979 » by payitforward » Sat Dec 7, 2019 9:05 pm

youngWizzy wrote:An underrated part of his game is his free throw shooting 33/38 (87%). Rui seems like a really good play as a small ball 5 as he can run up and down the court and front defenders in the post. His awareness in terms of switching on pick and rolls has been really bad yet still improving.

Yup & it's commonly said that a high FT% portends success learning to shoot the 3. Obviously very important for him.

On defensive awareness too, it's true; from "really bad" he's gone to "not as bad as he was." :)
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Re: Rui Hachimura 

Post#980 » by Jamaaliver » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:30 pm

NBA Rookie Power Rankings: Rui Hachimura takes over top spot

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1. Rui Hachimura | WAS | PF

PPG: 20.3
RPG: 7.7
APG: 2.7

Last week: Unranked

When you're getting praise from Paul George and Kawhi Leonard, you know you're doing something right. Hachimura had some poor shooting performances last week, but bounced back in a big way against the Los Angeles Clippers. The Wizards lost, however, Hachimura's 30-point performance came in a myriad of ways. He's still struggling with his 3-point shooting, but his touch around the rim, and mid-range game are far beyond where most rookies are at. He's constantly fighting for boards on both ends of the floor, and his defense is what will likely be his greatest asset throughout his career.
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