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Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread.

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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#81 » by dckingsfan » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:26 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
Ruzious wrote:I'd like to go forward in time and see what he'll be in 2 or 3 years. He's such a versatile defender, and he might be bigger by then. Having played PG in his formative years, he has PG skills. He just... has trouble shooting. He still makes rookie type mistakes, but all he needs to be a legit rotation player is a reasonably reliable 3 point shot.

You never know with these things but I'm skeptical he ever develops a 3. And if he does, it will likely look more like Iguodala's where people point to it and suggest he can shoot or that it's greatly helping his game when it's a positive but nothing groundbreaking and he can really only shoot from one or two spots on the floor. I'd be stoked if he could shoot more, and stranger things have happened but I definitely don't see even the Iguodala=level shooting as likely.

That said, even just a few spots inside the 3-point line would do it. Mostly with him, it's court awareness and that's where I feel playing PG younger helped him. He needs to be on point on defense and he needs to see the floor on offense. He seems like he could do some of the things Ben Simmons does, not as well but he also isn't afraid to shoot and he's willing to play a position other than PG and take on a role where he allows players who can shoot from various spots on the floor to do more of the ballhandling.

I think that he will develop a corner 3 that can be effective. He has increased his FT% from .600 to .732. His corner 3 is at .304 vs. .261 overall. What gives me hope there is that he is shooting .500 from 16-3pt.

I should describe as effective is anything greater than .333 from the corner. I think he will get to .375. What he needs to do is not position himself to take other 3s (not easy but doable).

I think his biggest weakness will continue to be his defensive rebounding - he rebounds like a SG.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#82 » by DCZards » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:04 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:

That said, even just a few spots inside the 3-point line would do it. Mostly with him, it's court awareness and that's where I feel playing PG younger helped him. He needs to be on point on defense and he needs to see the floor on offense. He seems like he could do some of the things Ben Simmons does, not as well but he also isn't afraid to shoot and he's willing to play a position other than PG and take on a role where he allows players who can shoot from various spots on the floor to do more of the ballhandling.


Very interesting comparison, ilikedirt. As you say, Bonga will probably never do certain things as well as Simmons, but they are similar in size and length and Bonga seems to have the potential to develop the high level ballhandling and passing skills that Ben possesses.

And I could easily see Bonga become almost as good as Ben as a defender.

Simmons will likely always be a much better rebounder than Bonga...but Bonga may become a much better outside shooter than Ben.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#83 » by dckingsfan » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:13 pm

Understand that the difference in DRB% is understated because Simmons is primarily playing PG.

Code: Select all

            DRB%     STL%   BLK%
Simmons     17.6     2.9    1.6
Bonga       14.8     1.9    1.5
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#84 » by smoothSeph » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:45 pm

I wonder if over a couple offseasons Bonga could develop some vertical explosiveness. I know his body is still growing so it may be possible. That could be the difference in him being just an ok player and a fairly good one (that and shooting).
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#85 » by payitforward » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:13 pm

First off, kudos to I_Like_Dirt for coming up with this interesting comparison of Bonga & Simmons. Or, one could say, this interesting way to look at Isaac Bonga & his future by way of Simmons. I never thought of it, but once it comes up... it's really illuminating!

In fact, if you look at them right now, there are plenty of similarities. On offense, Simmons & Bonga post @ the same TS% -- 58.2 - 58.6 (Bonga). Simmons % is on higher usage, but I wonder if it's high enough that it means much? Maybe.... But, Bonga shoots way too rarely. to tell the truth -- only 7 times per 40 minutes. Both guys get to the line a lot -- 40% of shot attempts.

Looking at the other stuff: their rebounding & shot-blocking are close. The biggest number differences are in PG stats: Simmons gets lots of assists & turns it over a lot, while Isaac does neither.

Now... I'm not suggesting that Bonga is as good a player as Simmons or that he ever will be. But, a) Simmons offers an interesting lens through which to look at Isaac Bonga, and b) Isaac Bonga can become an outstanding, terrific NBA player without approaching the level of Ben Simmons.

One other thing: I'd like to see how Isaac Bonga would perform at Point Guard. (Another reason to waive IT, btw)
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#86 » by nate33 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:24 am

dckingsfan wrote:Understand that the difference in DRB% is understated because Simmons is primarily playing PG.

Code: Select all

            DRB%     STL%   BLK%
Simmons     17.6     2.9    1.6
Bonga       14.8     1.9    1.5

Not to mention that he is competing with Embiid, Horford, and Harris for rebounds
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#87 » by gambitx777 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:02 am

Hmmmmmm over or under on the chances that he gets traded for what he did to rui ?

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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#88 » by payitforward » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:14 pm

Terrific outing by Bonga vs. the Raptors.

He's on his way to being one hell of an NBA player.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#89 » by nate33 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:58 pm

He started getting fairly regular minutes 11 games ago, starting with the NY game.

In those 11 games, he has averaged 6.9 pts, 4.7 reb, 1.0 ast, 0.8 stl, 0.5 blk, 0.5 tos, on a TS% of .727%

Per 36, that would be 12.4 pts, 8.5 reb, 1.8 ast, 1.4 stl, 0.9 blk and 0.9 tos on low usage with hyper-efficient shooting. That's pretty respectable play since it's coming with good defense as well. The team is only -0.2 with him on the floor (which is good considering how bad the team is in general). By the way, he's hitting 50% of his 3's in that stretch (but on a total of just 8 attempts so the sample size is pretty meaningless).
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#90 » by Meliorus » Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:50 pm

payitforward wrote:Terrific outing by Bonga vs. the Raptors.

He's on his way to being one hell of an NBA player.


To me he is the highest ceiling young player on this team by far. Defensively, he wreaks havoc compared to the rest of our guys who can’t even get deflections (albeit Troy Brown).
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#91 » by nate33 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:59 pm

Meliorus wrote:
payitforward wrote:Terrific outing by Bonga vs. the Raptors.

He's on his way to being one hell of an NBA player.


To me he is the highest ceiling young player on this team by far. Defensively, he wreaks havoc compared to the rest of our guys who can’t even get deflections (albeit Troy Brown).

Yes, we are developing a nice group of real good role players in Brown, Bonga, Mathews and Pasceniks (and Wagner in limited minutes). We're going to need some stars though. I don't see most of these guys becoming primary or secondary options on offense that actually bend a defense.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#92 » by payitforward » Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:48 pm

nate33 wrote:He started getting fairly regular minutes 11 games ago, starting with the NY game.

In those 11 games, he has averaged 6.9 pts, 4.7 reb, 1.0 ast, 0.8 stl, 0.5 blk, 0.5 tos, on a TS% of .727%

Per 36, that would be 12.4 pts, 8.5 reb, 1.8 ast, 1.4 stl, 0.9 blk and 0.9 tos on low usage with hype-efficient shooting. That's pretty respectable play since it's coming with good defense as well. The team is only -0.2 with him on the floor (which is good considering how bad the team is in general). By the way, he's hitting 50% of his 3's in that stretch (but on a total of just 8 attempts so the sample size is pretty meaningless).

Bonga's played 620 minutes so far this season. Still not a big sample size, but it's enough to evaluate his performance as accurately as a whole bunch of other players we are saying things about (e.g. McRae & Wagner). &, in fact, his numbers are pretty good!

On the season, he's taken 26 3-point attempts; he's shooting 34.6% on them. He's also shooting 59.3% on 2- point attempts & 75% from the line. That makes for a TS% of 61.7% -- where an average SF is at 55.2%.

Overall, his non-shooting numbers are also well above an average NBA SF. The only negative about his numbers is that his usage is too low -- limiting the meaning of his above average TS%. Still, for a kid who turned 20 in November to be posting his numbers in the NBA is terrific & bodes very well for his future.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#93 » by payitforward » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:38 pm

One more way to look at Bonga -- compare his per 40 minute numbers to those of Matisse Thybulle.

Points: very close, Bonga scores an extra .375 point per 40 minutes
TS%: Bonga = .617. Thybulle = .542 (In effect that means Thybulle uses up .75 extra possession).
Assists: the same for both guys
Turnovers: Thybulle turns it over .5 times more often than Bonga
Steals: Thybulle gets 1.4 more steals
Fouls: Bonga commits .5 more fouls

To this point the two guys are absolutely neck & neck in the numbers. It could not be closer! Just a couple more numbers to look at:

Blocks: Thybulle blocks 1.17 more shots than Bonga.

Thybulle has pulles ahead! How can Isaac Bonga catch up? I know...

Rebounds: Isaac Bonga gets 4.6 more boards per 40 minutes than Thybulle!

That's not a little difference; it's a big difference. Overall, without much question, Isaac Bonga's numbers are better than Thybulle's -- significantly so.

Now, Bonga is a very good defensive player, but Thybulle is meant to be truly special in his defense. Yet... a good bit of that is covered by numbers we've already considered -- steals & blocks -- where Thybulle has been better; we've given him credit for those numbers already.

Then too, Thybulle is a rookie. There's that to consider. Yet... he's 2 years & 8 months older than Isaac Bonga! & after all, Bonga only played 120 minutes last year.

I don't want to take anything away from Matisse Thybulle; he's outstanding. But... doesn't it look like Isaac Bonga might well wind up the better player? Can't say for sure -- that's obvious. But, you know what? Isaac Bonga is one terrific prospect!
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#94 » by nate33 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:56 pm

payitforward wrote:Overall, his non-shooting numbers are also well above an average NBA SF. The only negative about his numbers is that his usage is too low -- limiting the meaning of his above average TS%. Still, for a kid who turned 20 in November to be posting his numbers in the NBA is terrific & bodes very well for his future.

How does he compare to an average NBA PF? Because that's what he plays most of the time.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#95 » by Meliorus » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:14 pm

nate33 wrote:
Meliorus wrote:
payitforward wrote:Terrific outing by Bonga vs. the Raptors.

He's on his way to being one hell of an NBA player.


To me he is the highest ceiling young player on this team by far. Defensively, he wreaks havoc compared to the rest of our guys who can’t even get deflections (albeit Troy Brown).

Yes, we are developing a nice group of real good role players in Brown, Bonga, Mathews and Pasceniks (and Wagner in limited minutes). We're going to need some stars though. I don't see most of these guys becoming primary or secondary options on offense that actually bend a defense.


20 years old is a young age and a lot of the superstar wings (most important position) come into the league raw offensively and slowly develop on that end of the floor.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#96 » by payitforward » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:52 pm

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Overall, his non-shooting numbers are also well above an average NBA SF. The only negative about his numbers is that his usage is too low -- limiting the meaning of his above average TS%. Still, for a kid who turned 20 in November to be posting his numbers in the NBA is terrific & bodes very well for his future.

How does he compare to an average NBA PF? Because that's what he plays most of the time.

It's a fair question, although I don't think he's going to be a PF for his career. Moreover, I'd say his playing the 4 for us has mostly been a product of who, & how many, we've had healthy enough to play.

Still... even viewed as a PF his overall numbers been slightly above average (based on the way I quantify boxscore stats, more about which another time).

Rebounding -- overall he's below average. But statistical regression shows that offensive boards have @ 2 times the positive effect of defensive boards, & on that basis Isaac winds up just slightly below average. For the other non-shooting/scoring stats, he's basically a little above average overall.

Bonga's TS% is way above an average NBA 4; otoh, his usage is well below average, so his scoring efficiency doesn't help as much as one would like.

Still, overall, Bonga's numbers are somewhat better than an average NBA 4. But... if he has to play the 4 for his career, I can't see how he would become an impactful player -- unless, that is, this just-turned-20-year-old kid somehow puts on @ 40 lbs of muscle! Doesn't seem likely.

Given his ball-handling skills & overall mobility, I think he's going to be far more useful at the 1 or 3 or some combo of those spots. &, of course, he's going to have to start shooting the ball more -- while keeping his efficiency up or even improving it. Will that happen? How would I know? My crystal ball's got a big crack in it!

But, he's extremely young, really really young. & he's obviously got gifts. So, he has a pretty good chance, I'd say.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#97 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:00 am

Is it just me or is Bonga actually getting taller during the course of the season ??

Lately watching them running up and down the court I find myself thinking it's Mahinmi on the floor and then realize it's Bonga.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#98 » by nate33 » Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:21 pm

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:Is it just me or is Bonga actually getting taller during the course of the season ??

Lately watching them running up and down the court I find myself thinking it's Mahinmi on the floor and then realize it's Bonga.

Yeah, I've wondering the same thing. I know that his pre-season height measurements were unchanged from his draft measurements, so I assume he stopped growing. But he does seem awfully long out there. Maybe it's the narrow shoulders.
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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#99 » by WallToWall » Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:36 pm

I did mistake him for Mahinmi as they were both running up the court, and I glanced at Bonga. I thought to myself "who is that?". Nonga does look different, physically, than from the start of the season.
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:Is it just me or is Bonga actually getting taller during the course of the season ??

Lately watching them running up and down the court I find myself thinking it's Mahinmi on the floor and then realize it's Bonga.


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Re: Isaac Bonga Needs His Own Thread. 

Post#100 » by dckingsfan » Sat Feb 1, 2020 11:16 pm

payitforward wrote:But, I'm also high on Bonga! Almost as high on him as on Brown, to tell the truth. It's not even 3 months since this kid turned 20, & he's posting a 63.5% TS% in the NBA! Come on.... Ok, it's on extremely low usage, but I'm still pretty impressed!


I mean right... and I can see the assists, steals and blocks coming back up next year. If that happens and Troy keeps improving we no longer have that huge hole at the 3. Bonga could play a bit of PF given how Brown rebounds.

I let you fill out the projection :D

Code: Select all

Age   MP    TS%     3PT%   AST%   TOV%   USG%   DRB%   STL%   BLK%
19   120   0.240   0.000   14.9   13.2   15.7   13.5   3.5    2.7
20   735   0.635   0.400    7.6   16.4   10.3   14.4   1.8    1.5


Wall comes back with Ish. McRae and Matthews rounding out the guards. Bryant/Wager.

And now my bitch - damn we should have grabbed Clarke - would really have been interesting.

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