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Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter

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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#121 » by payitforward » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:39 pm

NatP4 wrote:
likwitdesi wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:Re-sign him now

They'll have to convert his 2 way into a real contract soon, no? Once they do that, they could also give him a multiyear extension. What is the most they can offer him?

Duncan Robinson is about to get paid between 15-20M a season. If they can get Garrison to sign for half for 3 years, that is a steal

No way he gets anywhere near that. Robinson signed a 3 year 3 million contract before signing the big one. Mathews is in line for his first non two way contract.

I’m expecting 2 years 4 million.

They don't have to convert him this year, no. A good thing, too, since it would put us in the luxury tax.

Robinson is in year 2 of a 3-year, $7.5m deal, nat. No doubt, Miami will extend, or try to, this off season.

But, he is not about to get $15-20m in his next contract!

OTOH, Mathews will certainly get more than $2m/year, & he'll be signed for more than 2 years as well.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#122 » by payitforward » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:40 pm

tontoz wrote:Glad he is finally getting time. Certainly he has validated all of us bitching about his DNPs.

Still needs more touches though.

This is the problem with him starting -- the touches aren't available w/ Beal & Westbrook on the floor.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#123 » by NatP4 » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:15 pm

payitforward wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
likwitdesi wrote:They'll have to convert his 2 way into a real contract soon, no? Once they do that, they could also give him a multiyear extension. What is the most they can offer him?

Duncan Robinson is about to get paid between 15-20M a season. If they can get Garrison to sign for half for 3 years, that is a steal

No way he gets anywhere near that. Robinson signed a 3 year 3 million contract before signing the big one. Mathews is in line for his first non two way contract.

I’m expecting 2 years 4 million.

They don't have to convert him this year, no. A good thing, too, since it would put us in the luxury tax.

Robinson is in year 2 of a 3-year, $7.5m deal, nat. No doubt, Miami will extend, or try to, this off season.

But, he is not about to get $15-20m in his next contract!

OTOH, Mathews will certainly get more than $2m/year, & he'll be signed for more than 2 years as well.


It’s widely expected that Robinson will get about what Bertans got.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#124 » by FAH1223 » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:42 pm

NatP4 wrote:
likwitdesi wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:Re-sign him now


They'll have to convert his 2 way into a real contract soon, no? Once they do that, they could also give him a multiyear extension. What is the most they can offer him?

Duncan Robinson is about to get paid between 15-20M a season. If they can get Garrison to sign for half for 3 years, that is a steal


No way he gets anywhere near that. Robinson signed a 3 year 3 million contract before signing the big one. Mathews is in line for his first non two way contract.

I’m expecting 2 years 4 million.


Due to COVID, there's special stuff about 2-way deals. You can play 50 games until converting the deal.

It'd be nice to get him on that Lu Dort contract. :lol:
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#125 » by gambitx777 » Mon Mar 1, 2021 3:20 am

Depending on how we structure his deal we could slip under the tax to do it. And just cut robinson or gill or ish. Also I thinks some trades could help us too. Like if we move Bertans or make a small move like shipping out ish or lopez. Could help us get flexability.

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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#126 » by payitforward » Mon Mar 1, 2021 3:52 am

NatP4 wrote:
payitforward wrote:
NatP4 wrote:No way he gets anywhere near that. Robinson signed a 3 year 3 million contract before signing the big one. Mathews is in line for his first non two way contract.

I’m expecting 2 years 4 million.

They don't have to convert him this year, no. A good thing, too, since it would put us in the luxury tax.

Robinson is in year 2 of a 3-year, $7.5m deal, nat. No doubt, Miami will extend, or try to, this off season.

But, he is not about to get $15-20m in his next contract!

OTOH, Mathews will certainly get more than $2m/year, & he'll be signed for more than 2 years as well.

It’s widely expected that Robinson will get about what Bertans got.

Is it? & are you looking at the numbers Duncan Robinson is putting up this season? & how would you say people view the Davis deal? You think they regard it as a smart move?

Of course, you may still turn out to be right. But whoever pays him that much money is likely to be very disappointed over time.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#127 » by payitforward » Mon Mar 1, 2021 3:56 am

gambitx777 wrote:Depending on how we structure his deal we could slip under the tax to do it. And just cut robinson or gill or ish. Also I thinks some trades could help us too. Like if we move Bertans or make a small move like shipping out ish or lopez. Could help us get flexability.

Yes, to be sure, if we trade Davis Bertans -- if we significantly reduce our salary, that will make room for Mathews. That's arithmetic.

But, we can't "just cut" a player with a guaranteed salary. That's what the word "guarantee" means.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#128 » by gambitx777 » Mon Mar 1, 2021 6:09 am

We can cut them for the spot, we are 1.5 under the tax I think if we call matthews up witch shouldn't cost that much then you give him an extension for what ever and how ever long. You can easily cut anyone on a one year deal you just have to pay them the money and it doesn't lower our salary.
payitforward wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:Depending on how we structure his deal we could slip under the tax to do it. And just cut robinson or gill or ish. Also I thinks some trades could help us too. Like if we move Bertans or make a small move like shipping out ish or lopez. Could help us get flexability.

Yes, to be sure, if we trade Davis Bertans -- if we significantly reduce our salary, that will make room for Mathews. That's arithmetic.

But, we can't "just cut" a player with a guaranteed salary. That's what the word "guarantee" means.


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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#129 » by nate33 » Mon Mar 1, 2021 2:25 pm

I came across this here:

What happens if a player outperforms their two-way contract?

Any two-way contract can be converted to a standard (NBA minimum based on years of experience) contract at the team’s option. In lieu of converting a two-way contract to a standard NBA contract, teams and players can negotiate and sign a standard NBA contract. If a new contract is signed, the two-way contract becomes null and void.

The caveat here is the NBA team must have an open roster spot, or create one by waiving another player on their 15-man roster. The two additional roster spots are for two-way players only, so teams cannot simply sign an additional player or two and have 17 standard NBA contracts on their books.


So maybe it is possible to extend Mathews right now. I'd definitely be willing to cut Gil or Robinson to free a roster spot. One problem is that we only have $817M in luxtax room. A 2nd year player would cost $1.44M. I assume that would be pro-rated somehow so that we could sign him a nominal contract starting at $1.44M but it we would end up paying him less than $817M so we don't exceed the tax.

So we could theoretically sign him to a long term deal starting at $1.44M with 8% raises. But if I'm Mathews, I'm betting I can get at least a vet minimum deal in the summer. I would want more than that before I agreed to a new contract. The Wizards can't offer more without exceeding the luxtax. Therefore, I don't think we will extend him. At most, we convert his existing contract to a full contract as gesture of good will (and to keep him eligible for the playoff roster). But the extension will have to be negotiated in the offseason. We have Bird Rights and RFA rights so we can definitely keep him, but we will have to match the best offer.

I don't think he will cost that much. Shooting guards who don't dribble really limit what you can do offensively.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#130 » by payitforward » Mon Mar 1, 2021 3:06 pm

payitforward wrote:
tontoz wrote:Glad he is finally getting time. Certainly he has validated all of us bitching about his DNPs.

Still needs more touches though.

This is the problem with him starting -- the touches aren't available w/ Beal & Westbrook on the floor.

We lost to Boston last night by 1 point.

In our 240 total player-minutes, we took 84 shots.

The starters played 129 minutes & took 61 shots -- 51 of those were by Beal & Westbrook. The other starters got 10 shots.

Conclusion: if you start alongside Brad & Russ, you don't get to shoot the ball.

OTOH, the bench (6 guys last night: Bertans, Avdija, Neto, Lopez, Len & Bonga) played 111 minutes & took only 23 shots. Of those 6, only Bertans is an excellent shooter with a high TS%, while Lopez & Len score on opportunities around the basket.

Conclusion: the Wizards bench lacks fire-power.

Thus, it is really foolish to start Garrison Mathews. It's a waste of a resource. It would be far better for him to come off the bench -- & mostly to play with Bertans also on the floor.

I would expect this to be good for Bertans as well. Note that in 26 minutes last night, Davis only got 9 shots! In fact, I believe that most of his open looks are in transition. With another shooter/scorer on the floor, that might get better. He might have more good looks off passes.

Make sense? Discuss, please.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#131 » by payitforward » Mon Mar 1, 2021 3:17 pm

gambitx777 wrote:
payitforward wrote:... we can't "just cut" a player with a guaranteed salary. That's what the word "guarantee" means.

We can cut them for the spot, we are 1.5 under the tax I think if we call matthews up witch shouldn't cost that much then you give him an extension for what ever and how ever long. You can easily cut anyone on a one year deal you just have to pay them the money and it doesn't lower our salary.

If we are going to sign him for 3 years, it would be preferable for year 1 to be next year. But, sure, I suppose we could also do it this way -- tho I'd wait until after the trade deadline, since maybe the guy you're going to cut can be useful fodder to make a trade of some kind work.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#132 » by nate33 » Mon Mar 1, 2021 3:24 pm

payitforward wrote:
payitforward wrote:
tontoz wrote:Glad he is finally getting time. Certainly he has validated all of us bitching about his DNPs.

Still needs more touches though.

This is the problem with him starting -- the touches aren't available w/ Beal & Westbrook on the floor.

We lost to Boston last night by 1 point.

In our 240 total player-minutes, we took 84 shots.

The starters played 129 minutes & took 61 shots -- 51 of those were by Beal & Westbrook. The other starters got 10 shots.

Conclusion: if you start alongside Brad & Russ, you don't get to shoot the ball.

OTOH, the bench (6 guys last night: Bertans, Avdija, Neto, Lopez, Len & Bonga) played 111 minutes & took only 23 shots. Of those 6, only Bertans is an excellent shooter with a high TS%, while Lopez & Len score on opportunities around the basket.

Conclusion: the Wizards bench lacks fire-power.

Thus, it is really foolish to start Garrison Mathews. It's a waste of a resource. It would be far better for him to come off the bench -- & mostly to play with Bertans also on the floor.

I would expect this to be good for Bertans as well. Note that in 26 minutes last night, Davis only got 9 shots! In fact, I believe that most of his open looks are in transition. With another shooter/scorer on the floor, that might get better. He might have more good looks off passes.

Make sense? Discuss, please.

Your analysis assumes that Beal and Westbrook's production is independent of the teammates alongside them.

When Mathews starts and doesn't shoot a single shot, he is still helping to space the floor for Beal and Westbrook.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#133 » by payitforward » Mon Mar 1, 2021 3:33 pm

nate33 wrote:I came across this here:

What happens if a player outperforms their two-way contract?

Any two-way contract can be converted to a standard (NBA minimum based on years of experience) contract at the team’s option. In lieu of converting a two-way contract to a standard NBA contract, teams and players can negotiate and sign a standard NBA contract. If a new contract is signed, the two-way contract becomes null and void.

The caveat here is the NBA team must have an open roster spot, or create one by waiving another player on their 15-man roster. The two additional roster spots are for two-way players only, so teams cannot simply sign an additional player or two and have 17 standard NBA contracts on their books.


So maybe it is possible to extend Mathews right now. I'd definitely be willing to cut Gil or Robinson to free a roster spot. One problem is that we only have $817M in luxtax room. A 2nd year player would cost $1.44M. I assume that would be pro-rated somehow so that we could sign him a nominal contract starting at $1.44M but it we would end up paying him less than $817M so we don't exceed the tax.

So we could theoretically sign him to a long term deal starting at $1.44M with 8% raises....

Yes, that option has been there since the introduction of the 2-way contract.

I don't know whether that pro-rating maneuver is possible, however: I think the tax line is based on the nominal annual value of the contract. I could be wrong.

nate33 wrote:...But if I'm Mathews, I'm betting I can get at least a vet minimum deal in the summer. I would want more than that before I agreed to a new contract. The Wizards can't offer more without exceeding the luxtax. Therefore, I don't think we will extend him. At most, we convert his existing contract to a full contract as gesture of good will (and to keep him eligible for the playoff roster). But the extension will have to be negotiated in the offseason. We have Bird Rights and RFA rights so we can definitely keep him, but we will have to match the best offer....

This is why it would have been far better to convert him last off-season as I suggested. Sign him for 3 years with a team option next year to cover the bet we were making on the guy.

nate33 wrote:...I don't think he will cost that much. Shooting guards who don't dribble really limit what you can do offensively.

To be sure, & that's a very good thing, since we won't have "that much." :) Which also means that a team which wanted him might be able to structure a contract that locks us out.

Facing any version of this problem points to FO ineptitude: if you like a 2 way guy well enough to want to keep him a 2d year, then lock him up but give yourself an out. That's what a good FO in Miami did with Robinson.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#134 » by payitforward » Mon Mar 1, 2021 3:44 pm

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:
payitforward wrote:This is the problem with him starting -- the touches aren't available w/ Beal & Westbrook on the floor.

We lost to Boston last night by 1 point.

In our 240 total player-minutes, we took 84 shots.

The starters played 129 minutes & took 61 shots -- 51 of those were by Beal & Westbrook. The other starters got 10 shots.

Conclusion: if you start alongside Brad & Russ, you don't get to shoot the ball.

OTOH, the bench (6 guys last night: Bertans, Avdija, Neto, Lopez, Len & Bonga) played 111 minutes & took only 23 shots. Of those 6, only Bertans is an excellent shooter with a high TS%, while Lopez & Len score on opportunities around the basket.

Conclusion: the Wizards bench lacks fire-power.

Thus, it is really foolish to start Garrison Mathews. It's a waste of a resource. It would be far better for him to come off the bench -- & mostly to play with Bertans also on the floor.

I would expect this to be good for Bertans as well. Note that in 26 minutes last night, Davis only got 9 shots! In fact, I believe that most of his open looks are in transition. With another shooter/scorer on the floor, that might get better. He might have more good looks off passes.

Make sense? Discuss, please.

Your analysis assumes that Beal and Westbrook's production is independent of the teammates alongside them.

When Mathews starts and doesn't shoot a single shot, he is still helping to space the floor for Beal and Westbrook.

That's fair, nate. I imagine it'd be possible to investigate the question of Mathews' effect on Beal's production. Vs. his effect on Bertans' production, & of course the effect on his own production.

&, no matter what, you'd have to see how it worked out! :)
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#135 » by payitforward » Mon Mar 1, 2021 3:45 pm

...plus, since we're winning, there's the "don't mess with a good thing" factor to consider as well! :)
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#136 » by nate33 » Mon Mar 1, 2021 3:48 pm

payitforward wrote:Facing any version of this problem points to FO ineptitude: if you like a 2 way guy well enough to want to keep him a 2d year, then lock him up but give yourself an out. That's what a good FO in Miami did with Robinson.

Good point!
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#137 » by doclinkin » Mon Mar 1, 2021 3:54 pm

payitforward wrote:...plus, since we're winning, there's the "don't mess with a good thing" factor to consider as well! :)


Also the factor that Jerome Robinson is firmly on the bench. Moving Garrison anywhere risks Brooks finding a spot for the hapless JerRob.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#138 » by nate33 » Mon Mar 1, 2021 3:56 pm

payitforward wrote:I don't know whether that pro-rating maneuver is possible, however: I think the tax line is based on the nominal annual value of the contract. I could be wrong.

I'm pretty sure the salary cap room is based on nominal value of contracts, but luxtax is based on actual money spent over the course of the season.

If we pay the first half of Mathews salary via the 2-way contract (which doesn't count against the cap or luxtax) and then paid his second half salary with a real contract, I think the luxtax hit would only be for the second half of his season (or half a vet-minimum contract).

But maybe there is some type of provision that prevents you from doing this, because, if done with premeditation, it might be a way to circumvent the luxtax rules. Basically, a smart team would never sign a 1st or 2nd year player to a vet minimum contract. They could just sign him to a 2-way and convert him on the latest possible day - thereby cutting the luxtax hit by at least half of his salary.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#139 » by doclinkin » Mon Mar 1, 2021 4:21 pm

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:I don't know whether that pro-rating maneuver is possible, however: I think the tax line is based on the nominal annual value of the contract. I could be wrong.

I'm pretty sure the salary cap room is based on nominal value of contracts, but luxtax is based on actual money spent over the course of the season.

If we pay the first half of Mathews salary via the 2-way contract (which doesn't count against the cap or luxtax) and then paid his second half salary with a real contract, I think the luxtax hit would only be for the second half of his season (or half a vet-minimum contract).

But maybe there is some type of provision that prevents you from doing this, because, if done with premeditation, it might be a way to circumvent the luxtax rules. Basically, a smart team would never sign a 1st or 2nd year player to a vet minimum contract. They could just sign him to a 2-way and convert him on the latest possible day - thereby cutting the luxtax hit by at least half of his salary.


Promote this man to the front office RAHT NOW!
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#140 » by daSwami » Mon Mar 1, 2021 5:52 pm

I'm just here to confess my burgeoning man-crush on GMAT. Suddenly this team has a plethora of appreciable assets in GMAT, Deni, Rui, and Bonga; as well as (arguably) Neto, Mo, TBJ, and TB, too. Can't wait to see how the FO squanders it.
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