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Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter

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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#161 » by nate33 » Wed May 19, 2021 1:28 am

closg00 wrote:With the signing of Caleb Homesley, it appears that the org is going in a different direction with Mr. Matthews

Yeah, I don't think the signing of Homesley means anything. He's basically our 2nd round pick this season, since we don't have one.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#162 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Wed May 19, 2021 12:22 pm

As much as I like Neto, Matthews needs to take his minutes while he’s hobbling. Neto just couldn’t keep up last night.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#163 » by dckingsfan » Wed May 19, 2021 1:42 pm

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:In 900 NBA minutes he has a 67.4% TS. The wizards would be smart to lock him up to a 4 year deal and give him 28+ minutes a night and 10+ shot attempts.

I really do hope they lock him up. I'm not quite ready to give him 28+ minutes though. It's a little difficult to play a guy at the SG position on offense when he is unable to handle secondary ball-handling duties because he can't dribble. If we acquired a playmaking forward, or if Avdija developed into that player, then it gets much easier.

For now, Mathews must play the SF role on offense, and he's a little too undersized to man the SF position defensively. I'm not hating. The guy has been a revelation for an undrafted walk-on. But he isn't a full time starter on a half-decent team, at least not one without a playmaking wing to offset his weakness.

Backup for Beal at SG - needs ball handlers on the court but should get minutes.
Backup for Avidija - times where he just can't man SF because of matchups.
or
Mathews develops his handles.

Otherwise he is a 12 min/game guy. And you pay him at that rate (IMO).
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#164 » by Ruzious » Wed May 19, 2021 2:22 pm

He touched the ball about 3 times last night in 12 minutes. Amazing they can't run an offense that sets picks to get him open when we have a PG like Westbrook who can penetrate and dish.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professionaly Shooter 

Post#165 » by closg00 » Thu Aug 5, 2021 11:30 pm

Disappointed, good bye.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professionaly Shooter 

Post#166 » by J-Ves » Thu Aug 5, 2021 11:40 pm

closg00 wrote:Disappointed, good bye.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#167 » by 80sballboy » Thu Aug 5, 2021 11:51 pm

Just no room at the inn right now. Not until they make another deal. With KCP, they can start him at the 3 or play him at the backup 2. I think the drafting of Kispert signaled the end of his career here.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#168 » by NatP4 » Fri Aug 6, 2021 1:36 am

Absolutely hate that.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#169 » by Ed Wood » Fri Aug 6, 2021 1:49 am

More the case that there wasn't room in the budget, I think, rather than that he wasn't considered worth having. I like Matthews a lot too, and think he's an NBA player. There are certainly people on the roster I'd rather tag out when you consider the likely significant disparity in pay involved. I don't know how the team could have kept him, however, except by not resigning Neto or somehow otherwise getting out of some amount of salary (or just eating the significant financial hit involved in bumping above the cap). Given the state of the roster I think it was right to view finding another point guard as a necessity.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#170 » by doclinkin » Fri Aug 6, 2021 9:55 am

Ed Wood wrote:More the case that there wasn't room in the budget, I think, rather than that he wasn't considered worth having. I like Matthews a lot too, and think he's an NBA player. There are certainly people on the roster I'd rather tag out when you consider the likely significant disparity in pay involved. I don't know how the team could have kept him, however, except by not resigning Neto or somehow otherwise getting out of some amount of salary (or just eating the significant financial hit involved in bumping above the cap). Given the state of the roster I think it was right to view finding another point guard as a necessity.


Alright inasmuch as he doesn't dribble and we have other catch and shoot guys. But as back up 2Guard we only have KCP, who may also slot in with our half dozen tweener forwards at SF. I guess we treat Spencer as our back up 2 and play kid Holiday as PG.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#171 » by nate33 » Fri Aug 6, 2021 11:58 am

The bottom line is that we are right at the tax threshold. Signing Mathews to even a vet minimum contract of $1.5M would have cost Ted a total $12.5 after factoring the tax and the tax redistribution.

It's possible that moves could be made to get under the tax during the middle of the season, but I suspect the asking price to absorb salary will be high. Shepherd didn't want to be put in a position where he absolutely had to dump salary.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#172 » by Ed Wood » Fri Aug 6, 2021 12:10 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Alright inasmuch as he doesn't dribble and we have other catch and shoot guys. But as back up 2Guard we only have KCP, who may also slot in with our half dozen tweener forwards at SF. I guess we treat Spencer as our back up 2 and play kid Holiday as PG.


More-so that we have a starting two who's likely to play over thirty minutes a night and a backup in KCP who's also a player who arguably deserves starter minutes and very much does well the things that you'd hope to have done effectively in minutes played by Matthews. At Point you have someone returning from a significant injury who may or may not be able to shoulder the minutes initially that you intend for him later and a young reclamation project who you like but also, I imagine, recognize is not quite finished rounding out into someone you're sure you can ask to play major minutes if you care about those minutes very much. It's very easy to imagine a world where we need someone who wasn't yet on the roster to play meaningful minutes at PG; it was hard to see those minutes through the roster at present for a pure off-guard. Realistically you might have imagined playing Beal as your primary creator with Matthews as the second guard to create that opportunity.

e: There's sort of an interesting parallel between what's happened in the NBA and what happened in baseball in the early 2000s. At first in both instances there were player archetypes that were undervalued because it wasn't widely recognized that what they did well was more important than what they didn't (here shooters who are passable or better defenders but limited players in other offensive aspects). Over time, though, it trickled down through the player base that being that kind of player was a way to maximize the return on your investments in yourself as a player-product. As a result, pouncing on those players became a little less essential because there were going to be a lot of players roughly at the margin who were leaning into that profile to make themselves appealing.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#173 » by likwitdesi » Fri Aug 6, 2021 12:35 pm

Would Garrison even be eligible for the vet minimum? Would it be a lower amount he can get? I don't feel we'd be losing a future star or starter but I think there is a clear path to him being a 40%+ 3P% shooter with scrappiness
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#174 » by nate33 » Fri Aug 6, 2021 12:49 pm

likwitdesi wrote:Would Garrison even be eligible for the vet minimum? Would it be a lower amount he can get? I don't feel we'd be losing a future star or starter but I think there is a clear path to him being a 40%+ 3P% shooter with scrappiness

I don't understand the question. Everyone is eligible for the vet minimum. Mathews, going into his 2nd season as a full NBA player, would be eligible for the 2nd year vet minimum salary of $1.5M. That's the value of his qualifying offer. Obviously, someone else could bid higher and we would have to either match that or let him walk.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#175 » by Ruzious » Fri Aug 6, 2021 12:59 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Ed Wood wrote:More the case that there wasn't room in the budget, I think, rather than that he wasn't considered worth having. I like Matthews a lot too, and think he's an NBA player. There are certainly people on the roster I'd rather tag out when you consider the likely significant disparity in pay involved. I don't know how the team could have kept him, however, except by not resigning Neto or somehow otherwise getting out of some amount of salary (or just eating the significant financial hit involved in bumping above the cap). Given the state of the roster I think it was right to view finding another point guard as a necessity.


Alright inasmuch as he doesn't dribble and we have other catch and shoot guys. But as back up 2Guard we only have KCP, who may also slot in with our half dozen tweener forwards at SF. I guess we treat Spencer as our back up 2 and play kid Holiday as PG.

I think the Wiz also consider Neto a backup 2. And with Din being a 6'5 215 lb PG, they can reasonably play Neto with Din. Just don't play Neto and Holiday together.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#176 » by doclinkin » Fri Aug 6, 2021 3:13 pm

Ed Wood wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
Alright inasmuch as he doesn't dribble and we have other catch and shoot guys. But as back up 2Guard we only have KCP, who may also slot in with our half dozen tweener forwards at SF. I guess we treat Spencer as our back up 2 and play kid Holiday as PG.


More-so that we have a starting two who's likely to play over thirty minutes a night and a backup in KCP who's also a player who arguably deserves starter minutes and very much does well the things that you'd hope to have done effectively in minutes played by Matthews. At Point you have someone returning from a significant injury who may or may not be able to shoulder the minutes initially that you intend for him later and a young reclamation project who you like but also, I imagine, recognize is not quite finished rounding out into someone you're sure you can ask to play major minutes if you care about those minutes very much. It's very easy to imagine a world where we need someone who wasn't yet on the roster to play meaningful minutes at PG; it was hard to see those minutes through the roster at present for a pure off-guard. Realistically you might have imagined playing Beal as your primary creator with Matthews as the second guard to create that opportunity.


I do think we will still see Beal as a primary creator. I expect we will generally see one of Dinwiddie or Beal on the floor at all times. Neto is not a dribble drive/distributor and as you suggest kid Holliday has a game that is unfinished. (Well, literally since he can do everything else well: shoot from outside, pass without mistakes, even blow past the defense, he just has trouble finishing once he gets there. Like a dog who chases cars, finally catching one).

Still our depth chart at big guard is:
Beal, KCP.... Neto?

We may play heavy minutes with Dinwiddie as well, probably even at big guard when Beal is out, but if for whatever reason Beal or KCP are out, who guards opposing 2's? Aaron Holiday I guess?
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#177 » by doclinkin » Fri Aug 6, 2021 3:22 pm

Ruzious wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
Ed Wood wrote:More the case that there wasn't room in the budget, I think, rather than that he wasn't considered worth having. I like Matthews a lot too, and think he's an NBA player. There are certainly people on the roster I'd rather tag out when you consider the likely significant disparity in pay involved. I don't know how the team could have kept him, however, except by not resigning Neto or somehow otherwise getting out of some amount of salary (or just eating the significant financial hit involved in bumping above the cap). Given the state of the roster I think it was right to view finding another point guard as a necessity.


Alright inasmuch as he doesn't dribble and we have other catch and shoot guys. But as back up 2Guard we only have KCP, who may also slot in with our half dozen tweener forwards at SF. I guess we treat Spencer as our back up 2 and play kid Holiday as PG.

I think the Wiz also consider Neto a backup 2. And with Din being a 6'5 215 lb PG, they can reasonably play Neto with Din. Just don't play Neto and Holiday together.


We are 5 deep at tweener forward. Have zero strong rebounding forwards. And are thin at the offball guard. I expect we will see a change, said before (and see you concur) we may even showcase Kuzma to see if anyone wants to offer something for him. But given that we start both of our scoring guards, it would be nice to have depth here.

Yeah Garrison is not worth a $12m hit, I can see why they'd have to let him go, as the last player they dropped, but still, I like the guy as a fit for this team. Too bad. Yeah your Bucks may snap him up, stop gloating. Keep that up and you may have to hang out over there instead. :clown:
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#178 » by Ruzious » Fri Aug 6, 2021 4:28 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
Alright inasmuch as he doesn't dribble and we have other catch and shoot guys. But as back up 2Guard we only have KCP, who may also slot in with our half dozen tweener forwards at SF. I guess we treat Spencer as our back up 2 and play kid Holiday as PG.

I think the Wiz also consider Neto a backup 2. And with Din being a 6'5 215 lb PG, they can reasonably play Neto with Din. Just don't play Neto and Holiday together.


We are 5 deep at tweener forward. Have zero strong rebounding forwards. And are thin at the offball guard. I expect we will see a change, said before (and see you concur) we may even showcase Kuzma to see if anyone wants to offer something for him. But given that we start both of our scoring guards, it would be nice to have depth here.

Yeah Garrison is not worth a $12m hit, I can see why they'd have to let him go, as the last player they dropped, but still, I like the guy as a fit for this team. Too bad. Yeah your Bucks may snap him up, stop gloating. Keep that up and you may have to hang out over there instead. :clown:

I think they think of me as a secret agent for the Wiz there - when the truth is I'm a double secret agent who shouldn't be trusted by either fan base. Oops, did I say that out loud? Where's an eraser?

Honestly, I think the Wiz simply made a judgment that they prefer Neto over GarMat. Either that, or they sent an e-mail to both of them saying we will sign the 1st one of you who agrees to a veteran minimum contract, and Neto was the first to respond. No soup for you, GarMat. :)
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#179 » by WashWiz54 » Fri Aug 6, 2021 6:12 pm

Kind of bummed by this.

I honestly would of rather given away Harrell or Kuzma for a TPE if it meant keeping Mathews. Dude has a super high ceiling as a very useful role player. Ahh well, can’t win em all I suppose.
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Re: Garrison Mathews - Professional Shooter 

Post#180 » by nate33 » Fri Aug 6, 2021 6:20 pm

doclinkin wrote:Still our depth chart at big guard is:
Beal, KCP.... Neto?

I don't think it's a problem. As you said before, Dinwiddie can man the SG position defensively.

So we have Beal backup up by KCP. And if one of them gets hurt, then we will play Dinwiddie at SG alongside either Holiday or Neto. The bottom line is that we have 5 guards: Neto, Holiday, Dinwiddie, Beal and KCP. Any two of them together is fine other than the Neto/Holiday tandem. And Indy actually got away with that as well, playing Holiday at SG alongside McConnell.

I'd still like to retain Mathews though. Love that guy. It just doesn't make sense on a team that is spending $16M on Bertans and a 1st round pick on Kispert. Not when his contract puts us over the tax.

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