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2020 2nd Round Draft Pick(s)

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Re: 2020 2nd Round Draft Pick(s) 

Post#241 » by Ruzious » Mon Sep 7, 2020 7:54 pm



Ok, be honest - is that Bob McAdoo superimposed on those videos as Nathan Knight? Gotta agree with you - he looks good. As Doc alluded to, he could look better if he's hooked up with a physical trainer - looks like he has the frame to add some muscle. He's a bit of a plodder, but that could be cured somewhat by getting in better shape.
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Re: 2020 2nd Round Draft Pick(s) 

Post#242 » by payitforward » Mon Sep 7, 2020 8:37 pm

I'm sure he's not in NBA shape -- that would be a surprise. But he moves quite well & clearly has a great motor.

I definitely don't see a plodder. In fairness, I'm might not be all that objective any more. I seem to be sorta convinced about the kid.
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Re: 2020 2nd Round Draft Pick(s) 

Post#243 » by Ruzious » Mon Sep 7, 2020 9:33 pm

payitforward wrote:I'm sure he's not in NBA shape -- that would be a surprise. But he moves quite well & clearly has a great motor.

I definitely don't see a plodder. In fairness, I'm might not be all that objective any more. I seem to be sorta convinced about the kid.

As far as NBA athletes, he moves smoothly, but he's clearly slower than average and not an explosive athuhlete at this point, imo.

Hey, he's a very good find by you - just not an instant Karl Malone. See, so far I've compared him to Bob McAdoo and Karl Malone. Teach him a turnaround jumper, and I might say Elvin Hayes. But he's no Rui Hachimura; that would be hoping for too much.

And I won't mention his high foul and turnover rates - no sir, my fingers are sealed. Seriously, I could see him being a nice find IF he gets in great shape.
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Re: 2020 2nd Round Draft Pick(s) 

Post#244 » by payitforward » Mon Sep 7, 2020 11:42 pm

You may be right. I'm not seeing it, but you may be right.

Bob McAdoo -- one of my favorite players.
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Re: 2020 2nd Round Draft Pick(s) 

Post#245 » by payitforward » Tue Sep 8, 2020 12:03 am

Another one of these interest guys who'll go undrafted or maybe slip into a pick in the late 50s is Nate Hinton. I've been looking at highlights & also gone back to try to understand his numbers -- which are overall great but kind of odd.

Hinton shot the 3 this year at 38.7% -- & he took more than 5 of them every 40 minutes. OTOH, he took just over 6 2-pointers, & these he only made at a 41% rate. That's slightly weird.

He is a pretty extraordinary rebounder for a guard -- 11.5 boards per 40 minutes this year. 31% of his rebounds are on the offensive end -- that is a very high % for any player, above all for a guard.

I'm thinking that maybe a fair number of his 2-point attempts come around the basket, in a crowd. He might be missing a higher than usual % of his 2-point attempts in that context -- & then grabbing an offensive board & putting the ball in the hole.

In that kind of situation, where another player's numbers might show 1 shot attempt, made, for 2 points, Hinton's might show 2 shot attempts, 1 made, & 1 offensive board. As far as effect on the game, these 2 sets of numbers are identical. They are also identical in the methodology I employ to evaluate a player's box score numbers. Those 2 alternative scenarios have the same value as I assess a guy's numbers.

Overall, Hinton's numbers are pretty tremendous. The only overall comp I can find is Haliburton (who played against tougher competition). I'm not comparing the 2 guys.

Hinton is an unusual player & a very productive one. He's another guy who may surprise a bunch of people by what he can do in the league.
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Re: 2020 2nd Round Draft Pick(s) 

Post#246 » by doclinkin » Tue Sep 8, 2020 2:32 pm

On Nathan Knight. I spent a bit of time watching game-by-game highlights of Wm&Mry, watching for him not only in his own highlights but in others on both teams (does he defend, is he setting screens, etc). It's the offseason in the COVID era, what are you gonna do.

He's smart, he's groundbound for sure and takes short steps up and down the court which keeps him balanced and in control but limits his speed. At times he is floating around watching the action. Mentally active more than physically instinctive in some cases. But really a solid player, and in big games like against Oklahoma he raised his game and came up with some remarkably skillful plays. Ball handling while doubled, long ranged shooting while tightly guarded, etc.

As for fitness. He is not a high energy hustler. Battling for loose balls etc. He boxes out but does not try to rebound outside his area. Just plays fundamentally sound positional defense on that end, with heads up play when the action comes his way. He's not out of shape, but I get the feeling with big time training staff he could develop. It's the area of greatest potential improvement in his game from what I can see. If he gets stronger he can assert his skills better. He's by no means an above the rim player, and is not an anthropometric marvel in other dimensions (standing reach, wingspan, huge hands, etc). But he's a damn good player. Already Strong. Solid. With a frame that can take more muscle.

Otherwise he thinks the game. Rises to the occasion. Doesn't try to do too much. He won't dominate his matchup in the NBA but any coach would be confident to call his number when he glances to his bench.
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Re: 2020 2nd Round Draft Pick(s) 

Post#247 » by Ruzious » Tue Sep 8, 2020 3:26 pm

payitforward wrote:You may be right. I'm not seeing it, but you may be right.

Bob McAdoo -- one of my favorite players.

Omg, McAdoo was so much fun to watch on offense - such a fluid graceful player. Some of the battles he had with Elvin Hayes were the greatest I'd ever seen.
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Re: 2020 2nd Round Draft Pick(s) 

Post#248 » by doclinkin » Tue Sep 8, 2020 7:09 pm

One place Nathan Knight crops up statistically is a search for which players this year had the highest Free Throw attempts per game. If Sheppard is looking for players that can make their own shots or force opponents to react, this is one column to pick through. Generally in college it is a better indicator for guards, as occasionally Bigs in college feast on simply being bigger than opponents, not quicker or more canny. Still, it was good to see his name in that data.
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Re: 2020 2nd Round Draft Pick(s) 

Post#249 » by trast66 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 2:47 am

payitforward wrote:Another one of these interest guys who'll go undrafted or maybe slip into a pick in the late 50s is Nate Hinton. I've been looking at highlights & also gone back to try to understand his numbers -- which are overall great but kind of odd.

Hinton shot the 3 this year at 38.7% -- & he took more than 5 of them every 40 minutes. OTOH, he took just over 6 2-pointers, & these he only made at a 41% rate. That's slightly weird.

He is a pretty extraordinary rebounder for a guard -- 11.5 boards per 40 minutes this year. 31% of his rebounds are on the offensive end -- that is a very high % for any player, above all for a guard.

I'm thinking that maybe a fair number of his 2-point attempts come around the basket, in a crowd. He might be missing a higher than usual % of his 2-point attempts in that context -- & then grabbing an offensive board & putting the ball in the hole.

In that kind of situation, where another player's numbers might show 1 shot attempt, made, for 2 points, Hinton's might show 2 shot attempts, 1 made, & 1 offensive board. As far as effect on the game, these 2 sets of numbers are identical. They are also identical in the methodology I employ to evaluate a player's box score numbers. Those 2 alternative scenarios have the same value as I assess a guy's numbers.

Overall, Hinton's numbers are pretty tremendous. The only overall comp I can find is Haliburton (who played against tougher competition). I'm not comparing the 2 guys.

Hinton is an unusual player & a very productive one. He's another guy who may surprise a bunch of people by what he can do in the league.


Saw Houston play a few times and this is a excellent analysis. He does not need the ball so could work with Brad and John. Shooting form is good, though he’s not going to score a unless it’s open 3’s or hustle points. Good passer. Adequate size and would be one of the better defenders on team already. The rebounding stats show his high intensity level. His team was much better with him on the floor, and Houston is a good college team. Type of character/effort guy the Wizards say they want. Watching him he does not scream “NBA player” unless you look a little deeper due to low usage rate. Type of guy Miami turns into rotational player.
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Re: 2020 2nd Round Draft Pick(s) 

Post#250 » by payitforward » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:20 am

For some reason, I haven't had a look at Theo Maledon until now. Tell you what... he looks extremely good! Very good hands, ball on a string, sees the court extremely well, creative & accurate passer, high-level athlete, shoots the 3 w/ good form (including step-back), quick as a cat. & only 19 years old.

I don't think he'll be there at our #37. If I saw him on the board at 34 I'd try awfully hard to buy that pick from Elton Brand. This kid is good. Take a look yourself:



What do you think?
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Re: 2020 2nd Round Draft Pick(s) 

Post#251 » by Ruzious » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:57 am

Yes, Maledon appears to be a very talented player with a lot of wiggle and versatility at that size - with good length. I think he goes in the 20-25 range. He'd be a nice choice at 24 for Milwaukee.
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Re: 2020 2nd Round Draft Pick(s) 

Post#252 » by pcbothwel » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:05 pm

Early on he was rated at or above Hayes, which is preposterous, but now he is rightfully ranked in the late 20's.
I understand his youth, but he has some issues. He is a really unimpressive athlete. Im talking slow feet, poor first step, slow laterally. He is crafty with his change of speed, but his handle is only mediocre.
I just dont see it. I see, at best, an average defender that can only operate out of the PnR and doesnt put much pressure on the defense.
I have him behind the Lewis, Maxey, Anthony group of PG's... so worth our 2nd, but I wouldnt trade into the 1st for him.
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Re: 2020 2nd Round Draft Pick(s) 

Post#253 » by payitforward » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:20 pm

Ok, great input -- although your conclusions differ.

I'm sure I'm not alone hoping that Tillman is on the board at 37. Looks more & more like a long shot, however.

So... who are the top 5 candidates for our #37 pick? What's the consensus of the board?
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Re: 2020 2nd Round Draft Pick(s) 

Post#254 » by payitforward » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:59 pm

Someone tell me how this kid is not a R1 talent?

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Re: 2020 2nd Round Draft Pick(s) 

Post#255 » by payitforward » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:20 pm

Mays is an older prospect -- just turned 23. He was an academic all-american. Here's where he attended high school: https://www.uhigh.lsu.edu/

I'm all in on this kid. He'll play in the NBA, & I can't see why he won't be a good NBA player.
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Re: 2020 2nd Round Draft Pick(s) 

Post#256 » by doclinkin » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:59 pm

payitforward wrote:Someone tell me how this kid is not a R1 talent?




Good one. He raised his game against his toughest competition. Increasing his scoring average and % against ranked teams. Outplayed Anthony Edwards in his match against Georgia. I want him as a 2 way as a floor leader for the lead GoGo with a chance to earn his way up as a back up to Beal.
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Re: 2020 2nd Round Draft Pick(s) 

Post#257 » by payitforward » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:40 pm

doclinkin wrote:On Nathan Knight. I spent a bit of time watching game-by-game highlights of Wm&Mry, watching for him not only in his own highlights but in others on both teams (does he defend, is he setting screens, etc). It's the offseason in the COVID era, what are you gonna do.

He's smart, he's groundbound for sure and takes short steps up and down the court which keeps him balanced and in control but limits his speed. At times he is floating around watching the action. Mentally active more than physically instinctive in some cases. But really a solid player, and in big games like against Oklahoma he raised his game and came up with some remarkably skillful plays. Ball handling while doubled, long ranged shooting while tightly guarded, etc.

As for fitness. He is not a high energy hustler. Battling for loose balls etc. He boxes out but does not try to rebound outside his area. Just plays fundamentally sound positional defense on that end, with heads up play when the action comes his way. He's not out of shape, but I get the feeling with big time training staff he could develop. It's the area of greatest potential improvement in his game from what I can see. If he gets stronger he can assert his skills better. He's by no means an above the rim player, and is not an anthropometric marvel in other dimensions (standing reach, wingspan, huge hands, etc). But he's a damn good player. Already Strong. Solid. With a frame that can take more muscle.

Otherwise he thinks the game. Rises to the occasion. Doesn't try to do too much. He won't dominate his matchup in the NBA but any coach would be confident to call his number when he glances to his bench.

Good for you for giving this kid such close attention, doc. :)

I believe I read somewhere that he's got a 7'2" reach -- quite good for a 6'10" kid. You use the word "skillful" about him; I did see that as well &, concomitantly, quite a high BBIQ. Worth noting that this kid is all of 6 weeks younger than Thomas Bryant, so you expect him to understand the game.

I'll try to look at that Oklahoma game.

Nathan Knight in that class of 4-year prospects, occasionally 3-year players, especially those from non-elite schools, that I see as seriously under-valued. Fred Van Vleet is the current poster child. These guys usually play significant minutes as Freshmen, then a whole lot of minutes the other 3 years. I don't usually pay much attention to their Freshman numbers, but to interest me they have to play well as Sophomores & also improve in each of their Junior & Senior years.

Because of the cap, the lottery, & other factors, it is extremely difficult for a team to improve vis a vis its competitors unless its FO is just plain smarter than theirs about this category of players. I don't just mean at the bottom of the draft or among undrafted players. In fact, Steph Curry is another poster child for this class of prospects, even though he was the #7 pick in the draft: the 6 guys who went before him -- Blake Griffin, Hasheem Thabeet, James Harden, Tyreke Evans, Ricky Rubio & Jonny Flynn -- include only 1 player who became a real star plus 2 very very good players. But, it also includes 2 outright busts & Evans who was extremely disappointing for a #4 pick.

Like Steph, Draymond is another of those underrated guys. Now imagine the Warriors over the last decade without those 2 guys, & it becomes painfully clear what I mean about having to be smarter than other teams about this particular category of player.

Obviously, I'm not comparing Nathan Knight to Draymond or Steph! :) But, if you can consistently add players who are worth more than what it costs you to acquire them, that will power your improvement very significantly.

(In our case, if you want, just think about Thomas Bryant, Isaac Bonga, Davis Bertans, Garrison Mathews, & Moritz Wagner -- 3 good players, one potentially good player, & one guy who doesn't seem to good -- all of whom came to us effectively at no cost.

End of screed... sorry if boring.
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