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Jerome Robinson thread

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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#61 » by payitforward » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:40 pm

long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
payitforward wrote:Moved this from the grizzly game thread...
Meliorus wrote:We actually have 42 games of 11 minutes per game where he shot some very scary percentages. Like, Colby White level bad. Wait, worse than him too.

Look... we got Jerome Robinson for IT -- who was terrible, wasn't getting any better, & wasn't gonna get any better.

Tommy could have simply waived IT & eaten his $1.65m salary. We could have picked someone up off the buyout list to replace him. Or we could have promoted either Grant or Mathews. Gotta pay whoever it is, right? Figure that's essentially a $1m salary. Total cost = $2.65m. The remaining % of that, I mean, given the season is 51 games old.

Instead, he traded IT for Jerome Robinson, whose salary is $1m more than IT plus whoever. So, the cost was the remaining % of that difference -- a total of $375K.

Of course, he is guaranteed for next year, right? Meaning he'll take up a roster spot if he's still with us. Let's say he's terrible & winds up the 15th guy. Since the 15th guy would most likely cost @$1.5m, we will have spent an extra $2m next year.

In other words, we just committed @ $2.5m over current expenditures. In short, for the usual cost of a R2 pick, we got a guy picked #13 in the draft 19 months ago.

Plus, you know what, if we want to trade him over the Summer, he'll be tradable & he'll fit easily into most kinds of deals. Why will he be tradable? B/c he is a recent lottery pick who hasn't yet had a lot of minutes. Guys like that retain their value for a few years.

This was a deal every good GM makes. Low risk, high reward if it works out, low cost if it doesn't.

I don't disagree with any of this and believe that it was indeed a chance worth taking. All I was trying to say was that, if I were a scout, I would have left very underwhelmed by what I saw yesterday from Robinson. I know it was only 16 minutes of action on a brand new team... BUT, he looks to me like he'll struggle to elevate enough to get his shot off consistently. He also did ALOT outside of the rhythm of the game. Can that all change? I sure hope so. But, if you started suspicious that the Clippers let a lottery pick go for nothing because they think he is a bust, you likely left last night with the same suspicions,

Bad coaching, that's all it was.... Take him out after he makes his first shot, a 3-pointer, then don't play him again the rest of the game season -- we get a R1 pick for him! :)

Actually... I didn't like him in the run up to the '18 draft, & I don't like him now. He's a long shot to be a player in the league -- even a journeyman.

But, he still needs to play; we need to find out about him, make a decision on him.
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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#62 » by doclinkin » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:42 pm

Maybe the Wiz are banking on their developmental squad to polish something they like about his game. Looking at his NCAA stats I see nothing standout or positive, though he does show the profile of a grinder who improves. FT% improvement and 3FG% improvement with increased usage are a good sign. I'd be curious what a full summer working with David Adkins will do.
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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#63 » by I_Like_Dirt » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:45 pm

nate33 wrote:Robinson was jacking shots, trying to show what he can do. He did show that he has a handle and some "wiggle" to his game that will help him generate shots, but that just makes him Austin Rivers. He needs to actually make the shots to be an effective player.

Let's give him a little time though. Basically, his entire career has been snippets of garbage time minutes where he's trying to get noticed. It breeds bad habits. Let's see if he can be effective if given a regular spot in the rotation and a specific role.



I thought reasonably highly of Robinson on draft day and am definitely going to give him a chance. I hope he works out here.

I do have my concerns, now, though. Yes, he was buried on the Clippers, but it's not like he was totally without chances. SGA went in there and played very well and managed to earn a role for himself Landry Shamet was traded there as a rookie and earned himself minutes right away. Terance Mann was drafted in the second round just this season and managed to push himself to about Robinson's level on the Clippers depth chart.

Does playing garbage time breed bad habits? Maybe, but that doesn't seem to have been a problem for any of the competing rookies/prospects that kept beating Robinson out for minutes. Hopefully it's the attitude and not the talent level and he brings a new attitude to the Wizards. It's not like the Wizards are loaded with top notch competition for minutes, so if he can't earn a spot here, he's in trouble. And yes, the Wizards actually do have a rather long list of decent players, but there aren't that many teams that have openings for minutes in general for a guy like Robinson. He really needs to seize the opportunity.
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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#64 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:59 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
nate33 wrote:Robinson was jacking shots, trying to show what he can do. He did show that he has a handle and some "wiggle" to his game that will help him generate shots, but that just makes him Austin Rivers. He needs to actually make the shots to be an effective player.

Let's give him a little time though. Basically, his entire career has been snippets of garbage time minutes where he's trying to get noticed. It breeds bad habits. Let's see if he can be effective if given a regular spot in the rotation and a specific role.



I thought reasonably highly of Robinson on draft day and am definitely going to give him a chance. I hope he works out here.

I do have my concerns, now, though. Yes, he was buried on the Clippers, but it's not like he was totally without chances. SGA went in there and played very well and managed to earn a role for himself Landry Shamet was traded there as a rookie and earned himself minutes right away. Terance Mann was drafted in the second round just this season and managed to push himself to about Robinson's level on the Clippers depth chart.

Does playing garbage time breed bad habits? Maybe, but that doesn't seem to have been a problem for any of the competing rookies/prospects that kept beating Robinson out for minutes. Hopefully it's the attitude and not the talent level and he brings a new attitude to the Wizards. It's not like the Wizards are loaded with top notch competition for minutes, so if he can't earn a spot here, he's in trouble. And yes, the Wizards actually do have a rather long list of decent players, but there aren't that many teams that have openings for minutes in general for a guy like Robinson. He really needs to seize the opportunity.



I dvrd the game and watched it today after having read the comments, and I gotta say I was expecting much worse based on that from what my eyes saw.

To start, that first dunk attempt was clearly a foul, hit on his arm, which would of been a nice beginning! That 3 at the end of the 1st quarter was pretty sweet. I thought he played pretty well overall. He handles well, made some nice passes... that one sequence TBJ to Robinson to TBJ for the score was a quality play. He hit some shots, asserted himself on the defensive end (one play he came down with a tough one handed rebound), and seemed to fit in well for his 1st game. I think he's gonna be fine.
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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#65 » by payitforward » Mon Mar 2, 2020 3:45 pm

This keeps coming up; seems worth answering once & for all:
dckingsfan wrote:
long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:It only took the genius Brooks about ten games to figure out Robinson can’t play at all. ...

Completely baffled by this move not to send Robinson to the D league ... There is probably a very good explanation but I am at a loss.
...

The reason is obvious. We have until October 31 of this year to decide whether we are going to pick up Robinson's option for the year after next. We have to find out whether he can play or not before we make that $5.3m decision. He's getting a chance to show us the answer.

Why we didn't simply waive IT I'll never know. But, keep in mind, this guy was a lottery pick -- those guys get multiple opportunities to show they have the ability to thrive in the league.

That's why he is with the team. You don't have to think it makes sense. IMO, we should simply have waived IT & let the Clippers work out Robinson's future. As it is, we'll be paying him $3.75m next year.
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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#66 » by dckingsfan » Mon Mar 2, 2020 3:55 pm

payitforward wrote:This keeps coming up; seems worth answering once & for all:
dckingsfan wrote:
long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:It only took the genius Brooks about ten games to figure out Robinson can’t play at all. ...

Completely baffled by this move not to send Robinson to the D league ... There is probably a very good explanation but I am at a loss.
...

The reason is obvious. We have until October 31 of this year to decide whether we are going to pick up Robinson's option for the year after next. We have to find out whether he can play or not before we make that $5.3m decision. He's getting a chance to show us the answer.

Why we didn't simply waive IT I'll never know. But, keep in mind, this guy was a lottery pick -- those guys get multiple opportunities to show they have the ability to thrive in the league.

That's why he is with the team. You don't have to think it makes sense. IMO, we should simply have waived IT & let the Clippers work out Robinson's future. As it is, we'll be paying him $3.75m next year.

Thanks for the considered response... makes more sense. But now we should understand where he is at - move him to the D league and see how hard he works on his game.

And sorry, didn't mean to derail this thread of a winning game!
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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#67 » by payitforward » Wed Mar 4, 2020 1:20 am

No worries -- but... it's the G League not the D League. Gotta get used to that!
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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#68 » by prime1time » Wed Mar 4, 2020 11:50 am

dckingsfan wrote:
payitforward wrote:This keeps coming up; seems worth answering once & for all:
dckingsfan wrote:Completely baffled by this move not to send Robinson to the D league ... There is probably a very good explanation but I am at a loss.
...

The reason is obvious. We have until October 31 of this year to decide whether we are going to pick up Robinson's option for the year after next. We have to find out whether he can play or not before we make that $5.3m decision. He's getting a chance to show us the answer.

Why we didn't simply waive IT I'll never know. But, keep in mind, this guy was a lottery pick -- those guys get multiple opportunities to show they have the ability to thrive in the league.

That's why he is with the team. You don't have to think it makes sense. IMO, we should simply have waived IT & let the Clippers work out Robinson's future. As it is, we'll be paying him $3.75m next year.

Thanks for the considered response... makes more sense. But now we should understand where he is at - move him to the D league and see how hard he works on his game.

And sorry, didn't mean to derail this thread of a winning game!

Move him to the G League and then what? Are we going to win the championship this year? Some people seem to think that trading for Robinson was akin for trading for a random player that they may or may not believe in. 10 games in the form an opinion and then they proceed to decide his future. This is misguided. They traded for Robinson because we believe in him. He will likely be given every opportunity to succeed. That's how this works.
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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#69 » by I_Like_Dirt » Wed Mar 4, 2020 1:47 pm

prime1time wrote:Move him to the G League and then what? Are we going to win the championship this year? Some people seem to think that trading for Robinson was akin for trading for a random player that they may or may not believe in. 10 games in the form an opinion and then they proceed to decide his future. This is misguided. They traded for Robinson because we believe in him. He will likely be given every opportunity to succeed. That's how this works.


You're acting as though sending a player to the d league is akin to not believing in them or giving them a chance to succeed. There have been a fair few players better than Robinson who started in the d league. The Clippers sent him there. Why can't the Wizards? Obviously the Wizards believe in Robinson but so too do they believe in the players they actually have in the d league. It's not some magical sort of dividing line between players they believe in and want to give a shot to and players they don't believe in and want to bury. That's not how this works.
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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#70 » by nate33 » Wed Mar 4, 2020 2:19 pm

Robinson is a pretty good defender and a very good rebounder. He was +22 in his outing last night against Sacramento, which boosted his net on/off differential as a Wizards to a respectable -1.4 despite him being a woeful shooter.

If they can find a way to eliminate all of his midrange shot attempts and floaters, he could be a respectable role player. His 3-ball is up to a passable 33.3%.
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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#71 » by dckingsfan » Wed Mar 4, 2020 5:12 pm

nate33 wrote:Robinson is a pretty good defender and a very good rebounder. He was +22 in his outing last night against Sacramento, which boosted his net on/off differential as a Wizards to a respectable -1.4 despite him being a woeful shooter.

If they can find a way to eliminate all of his midrange shot attempts and floaters, he could be a respectable role player. His 3-ball is up to a passable 33.3%.

I think the D League would absolutely be the best place for him to work on those skills.
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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#72 » by smoothSeph » Wed Mar 4, 2020 5:50 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
nate33 wrote:Robinson is a pretty good defender and a very good rebounder. He was +22 in his outing last night against Sacramento, which boosted his net on/off differential as a Wizards to a respectable -1.4 despite him being a woeful shooter.

If they can find a way to eliminate all of his midrange shot attempts and floaters, he could be a respectable role player. His 3-ball is up to a passable 33.3%.

I think the D League would absolutely be the best place for him to work on those skills.

The G League is better suited for players that lack opportunity and/or confidence. Neither is a problem for Robinson right now. We aren't winning, what better way to sharpen iron than vs NBA competition? I'm sure Robinson got more out of matching up with Buddy Hield last night than he would vs someone like Gabe Vincent. The offseason is for working on skills, right now is about getting experience.
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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#73 » by prime1time » Wed Mar 4, 2020 6:05 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
prime1time wrote:Move him to the G League and then what? Are we going to win the championship this year? Some people seem to think that trading for Robinson was akin for trading for a random player that they may or may not believe in. 10 games in the form an opinion and then they proceed to decide his future. This is misguided. They traded for Robinson because we believe in him. He will likely be given every opportunity to succeed. That's how this works.


You're acting as though sending a player to the d league is akin to not believing in them or giving them a chance to succeed. There have been a fair few players better than Robinson who started in the d league. The Clippers sent him there. Why can't the Wizards? Obviously the Wizards believe in Robinson but so too do they believe in the players they actually have in the d league. It's not some magical sort of dividing line between players they believe in and want to give a shot to and players they don't believe in and want to bury. That's not how this works.

The Clippers sent him there because they didn't have a rotation spot for him. The same reason why they ultimately traded him. Do we not have a rotation spot for him? Who should get his minutes over him? Not only is Robinson on the team. He played 30 minutes last game. To put it another way, he tied for the 2nd most minutes played. Why would we send him to the g-league? He's a rotational player. The only time players go from being a rotational player getting big minutes to the g-league is when the team doesn't believe in him. You see the problem with our logic right? The Wizards see him as a piece moving forward. They loved him in the draft. And they love him now.
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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#74 » by prime1time » Wed Mar 4, 2020 6:07 pm

If anyone has made an argument to send Robinson t o the g-league based on development and not because he's a bad/sucky player I'd love to hear it. Because I clearly missed it. Seems like the people in this thread want it both ways. Argue that he's sucky, then call out posters who say we shouldn't send him to the g-league because you think he's bad. What's the logic of sending a guy to the g-league to develop his game when he's getting solid minutes right now? Bizarre.
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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#75 » by gambitx777 » Wed Mar 4, 2020 6:13 pm

I think people just wanted rid of it and want more TBJ , Bonga, Matthews . Robinson has been defending well that alone is worth trading it for him.

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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#76 » by Ruzious » Wed Mar 4, 2020 6:25 pm

prime1time wrote:If anyone has made an argument to send Robinson t o the g-league based on development and not because he's a bad/sucky player I'd love to hear it. Because I clearly missed it. Seems like the people in this thread want it both ways. Argue that he's sucky, then call out posters who say we shouldn't send him to the g-league because you think he's bad. What's the logic of sending a guy to the g-league to develop his game when he's getting solid minutes right now? Bizarre.

Tbh, I can't figure out what you're trying to say there, but he probably should go to the G League to develop his skills. Even after last night's game - his stats on the season are awful. That doesn't mean he can't improve. That's one thing that's so great about the G League - you can develop players there without forcing NBA fans to watch them flounder in the NBA.
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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#77 » by nate33 » Wed Mar 4, 2020 6:34 pm

Ruzious wrote:
prime1time wrote:If anyone has made an argument to send Robinson t o the g-league based on development and not because he's a bad/sucky player I'd love to hear it. Because I clearly missed it. Seems like the people in this thread want it both ways. Argue that he's sucky, then call out posters who say we shouldn't send him to the g-league because you think he's bad. What's the logic of sending a guy to the g-league to develop his game when he's getting solid minutes right now? Bizarre.

Tbh, I can't figure out what you're trying to say there, but he probably should go to the G League to develop his skills. Even after last night's game - his stats on the season are awful. That doesn't mean he can't improve. That's one thing that's so great about the G League - you can develop players there without forcing NBA fans to watch them flounder in the NBA.

I dunno.

I think his future is as a low usage 3&D player who maybe can run a little secondary pick-and-roll. If you send him to the G-League, he will probably be among the better first-option shot-creators there, and would get put in that role instead. Furthermore, he'll have less chance to develop his defense while playing against worse offensive players.

Basically, given his expected role, I think he's better off developing in the NBA than in the G-League.

If nothing else, we are ultimately choosing between Robinson and Mathews. And given their respective current skill sets, I think Robinson can get more out of NBA development while Mathews can get more out of G-League development.

Even G-League caliber offensive players are good enough to give Mathews some trouble on D. Also, Mathews probably needs to hone his basic ball-handling and decision-making skills in an easier defensive environment before trying them at the NBA level. Right now, he is exclusively a catch-and-shoot threat. Ultimately, he's going to have to develop a decent enough dribble drive game to at least attack a close out.
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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#78 » by Ruzious » Wed Mar 4, 2020 6:59 pm

nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
prime1time wrote:If anyone has made an argument to send Robinson t o the g-league based on development and not because he's a bad/sucky player I'd love to hear it. Because I clearly missed it. Seems like the people in this thread want it both ways. Argue that he's sucky, then call out posters who say we shouldn't send him to the g-league because you think he's bad. What's the logic of sending a guy to the g-league to develop his game when he's getting solid minutes right now? Bizarre.

Tbh, I can't figure out what you're trying to say there, but he probably should go to the G League to develop his skills. Even after last night's game - his stats on the season are awful. That doesn't mean he can't improve. That's one thing that's so great about the G League - you can develop players there without forcing NBA fans to watch them flounder in the NBA.

I dunno.

I think his future is as a low usage 3&D player who maybe can run a little secondary pick-and-roll. If you send him to the G-League, he will probably be among the better first-option shot-creators there, and would get put in that role instead. Furthermore, he'll have less chance to develop his defense while playing against worse offensive players.

Basically, given his expected role, I think he's better off developing in the NBA than in the G-League.

If nothing else, we are ultimately choosing between Robinson and Mathews. And given their respective current skill sets, I think Robinson can get more out of NBA development while Mathews can get more out of G-League development.

Even G-League caliber offensive players are good enough to give Mathews some trouble on D. Also, Mathews probably needs to hone his basic ball-handling and decision-making skills in an easier defensive environment before trying them at the NBA level. Right now, he is exclusively a catch-and-shoot threat. Ultimately, he's going to have to develop a decent enough dribble drive game to at least attack a close out.

Now that NBA teams all own their own G League teams, the whole purpose of the G League is to develop their players for the NBA team, so there's no reason he should be used in a way that won't help his development. I'll agree with you on defense, but even there - there's more opportunity to work on fundamentals - which is generally not done at all at the NBA level.
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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#79 » by I_Like_Dirt » Wed Mar 4, 2020 7:11 pm

nate33 wrote:Furthermore, he'll have less chance to develop his defense while playing against worse offensive players.


I'm not so sure this is true. I think there is something to suggest getting used to the Wizards defensive schemes at a slightly slower pace before trying to pick things up as he goes along. I think also think it's a stronger argument that he can better develop his defense with players who better understand where to be on the floor so that there is consistency around him, though I'd suggest that the Wizards as a team right now aren't necessarily that kind of ideal situation in the first place.

As for changing his role in the d league, the Wizards on that team, too, there is nothing that says they have to change his role. The only thing that might get in the way there is Robinson's own ego. I'm not sure if that's actually an issue or not but so long as he'd accept it, there is absolutely nothing stopping the team from doing it. That said, the Wizards clearly feel that Robinson has earned his shot more than some of the other guys they're developing right now for whatever reason, and so be it. And it's not like Robinson is setting some super high bar for others to clear or anything so if the team feels they aren't clearing it, I can understand the team not bumping them ahead on the ladder.
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Re: Jerome Robinson thread 

Post#80 » by gambitx777 » Wed Mar 4, 2020 7:39 pm

I think the issue is he is showing two good tool that can be developed. A 3 ball with range and a decent defensive instinct. As much as we love Matthews. He hasn't bee playing well since he got hurt. He's even found himself out of the starting lineup on the gogos . That's not good. None of us want to see him wash out but we have him.on a two way for another year so he has to e to get it together. Robinson , while having some bad scoring numbers. Is shooting the 3 well enough and he's been a decent defender, definitely not a negative on that end of the floor. The focus should be on getting him to be more efficient . Not taking bad shots and passing more. If it ain't a 3 or open lane kick it out. Get back on D rebound and repeat.

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