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Ruzious wrote:

DCZards wrote:If Kyrie and some of the other NBA players are concerned about restarting the season for health reasons, I don't have a problem with that. And if the concern of Kyrie, Dwight, Avery Bradley and others is social justice, I'm onboard for that fight.

But I don't think these players should use not restarting the season as a platform for the social justice fight. The NBA and some of its players (such as Lebron) have consistently proven to be among the most forward thinking, socially conscious institutions in our country. I'm sure that if the coalition led by Kyrie and Bradley want to convince the NBA to step up its social justice game that they accomplish that without threatening not to restart the season...and dividing their own ranks.

If I was being honest, I'd say Kyrie is likely more worried about not having a supply of weed and strip clubs while being stuck in Disney World - than he is about any health issues. But I'm not going to say it.

The same Kyrie Irving who just gave $325,000 to coronavirus relief.
Who visited South Africa with UNICEF and the Nelson Mandela foundation.
The vegan Kyrie Irving. Who has given hundreds of thousands to the Standing Rock Sioux tribe where his mother was born before she was adopted. But asked that no cameras record him when he went to visit the tribe, no press accompany him etc.

He may be self serving but I have no doubt he believes what he says on this issue.

Show me links that say Kyrie Irving is a frequent strip club patron. I have no doubt he smokes a lot of weed. But so do many athletes who aren't speaking up on this issue.

I'm not a fan of his, nor do I hate him, except that it's fun to hate on opposing players. But I don't see anything in his history that says he is other than earnest about supporting this cause. Does he also get attention? Sure. If you accused him of hogging the spotlight, well okay, I'd say yeah maybe he likes to appear to be a good guy. Conscious, etc.

To me I think if he is using his position to actively leverage some social action by the NBA front office, then hey, that is the work he can do. Whether I agree with Kyrie's actions or not, there are a lot of people who are wondering how to make a positive difference with whatever skill set or pull they have.

We in that yacht club, son!

Doc, there are lots of stories like this about Kyrie. https://chowderandchampions.com/2019/06/29/boston-celtics-kyrie-irving-giant-jerk/ I'm sure he's done some good thing as you mentioned, but I'm comfortable in saying he's a professional contrarian - at best. People like him have taken years off of my life. Good for you for finding the good in him.

LyricalRico wrote:

Read on Twitter

We in that yacht club, son!

I mean... has the NBA set this up well or what?

Ruzious wrote:Doc, there are lots of stories like this about Kyrie. https://chowderandchampions.com/2019/06/29/boston-celtics-kyrie-irving-giant-jerk/ I'm sure he's done some good thing as you mentioned, but I'm comfortable in saying he's a professional contrarian - at best. People like him have taken years off of my life. Good for you for finding the good in him.

To be fair, that's the mandatory article that comes out after a player leaves and the team always leaks negative stories.

Kanyewest wrote:

Ruzious wrote:Doc, there are lots of stories like this about Kyrie. https://chowderandchampions.com/2019/06/29/boston-celtics-kyrie-irving-giant-jerk/ I'm sure he's done some good thing as you mentioned, but I'm comfortable in saying he's a professional contrarian - at best. People like him have taken years off of my life. Good for you for finding the good in him.

To be fair, that's the mandatory article that comes out after a player leaves and the team always leaks negative stories.

There's probably a hundred of them. And there's some nice comments from Kendrick Perkins:

On Wednesday morning, longtime Boston Celtics forward Kendrick Perkins lit into Irving. Perkins called out the veteran point guard for his “lack of leadership.”

“Kyrie Irving, right now you are the distraction. You’re distracting the whole situation,” Perkins said. “It’s crazy to me because you come out and do something separately, without talking to your president Chris Paul or consulting with Michele Roberts and go off and do something totally different and get a group of guys together and say, ‘Let’s sit out’ – without a plan. It makes zero sense and I totally disagree with Kyrie Irving.”

Ruzious wrote:If I was being honest, I'd say Kyrie is likely more worried about not having a supply of weed and strip clubs while being stuck in Disney World - than he is about any health issues. But I'm not going to say it.

This is honestly sad to read man, consider re-examining your relationship to celebrity, to rival players, to... whatever's going on here. Even leaving aside the seriously questionable undertones of the weed and clubs thing, it's incredibly callous to use your personal dislike of Kyrie Irving the weird flat earth guy (not someone I'm particularly fond of, and certainly not a position I defend whatsoever) to dismiss the entirely valid concerns of a number of NBA players who object to the normalizing effect of getting back onto the court and continuing a season that began before - and exists fully outside of - everything that's going on.

You can say that the largest platform would be to just get back to basketball; some players (and I) disagree. They - not just Kyrie - see an opportunity to leverage their platform as it already exists to effect change both within the NBA (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29319677/avery-bradley-says-nba-players-coalition-wants-league-plan-black-causes-restart - note the website covering and amplifying this effort) and in the world at large. If they're concerned about undermining a once-in-decades period of civil action by simply going back to work, they have every right to try and dictate the terms on which they return to distracting and entertaining us. To disregard how widespread this concern is within the league because of your personal distaste for the most famous player associated with it is beyond missing the forest for the trees.

wall_glizzy wrote:

Ruzious wrote:If I was being honest, I'd say Kyrie is likely more worried about not having a supply of weed and strip clubs while being stuck in Disney World - than he is about any health issues. But I'm not going to say it.

This is honestly sad to read man, consider re-examining your relationship to celebrity, to rival players, to... whatever's going on here. Even leaving aside the seriously questionable undertones of the weed and clubs thing, it's incredibly callous to use your personal dislike of Kyrie Irving the weird flat earth guy (not someone I'm particularly fond of, and certainly not a position I defend whatsoever) to dismiss the entirely valid concerns of a number of NBA players who object to the normalizing effect of getting back onto the court and continuing a season that began before - and exists fully outside of - everything that's going on.

You can say that the largest platform would be to just get back to basketball; some players (and I) disagree. They - not just Kyrie - see an opportunity to leverage their platform as it already exists to effect change both within the NBA (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29319677/avery-bradley-says-nba-players-coalition-wants-league-plan-black-causes-restart - note the website covering and amplifying this effort) and in the world at large. If they're concerned about undermining a once-in-decades period of civil action by simply going back to work, they have every right to try and dictate the terms on which they return to distracting and entertaining us. To disregard how widespread this concern is within the league because of your personal distaste for the most famous player associated with it is beyond missing the forest for the trees.

Oh give me a bleeping break, and dry up those crock tears. I was talking about him - not anybody else or anything else. Don't put words in my mouth.

And playing doesn't take away their ability to speak. People like Lebron James seem to understand that.

Ruzious wrote:Oh give me a bleeping break, and dry up those crock tears. I was talking about him - not anybody else or anything else. Don't put words in my mouth.

And playing doesn't take away their ability to speak. People like Lebron James seem to understand that.

Do you feel differently about Avery Bradley then? Or does the below still apply?

Ruzious wrote:He doesn't even want to play. I think you're giving him way too much credit. This isn't about him expressing himself; it's about him intentionally trying to mess up a GREAT thing for a lot of other people [...] Trying to hurt the NBA and all the people that benefit from it makes no sense if he really had good intentions.

Because you've been conflating the two, I can't tell if your objection is to Kyrie alone or to anyone questioning the wisdom of the NBA returning exactly as-is. If you're painting all of the latter with the above brush, I don't know what to say. I want basketball back more than anything, but I can't imagine demanding that players ignore their own (extremely personal) misgivings to get back to the game on the timeline I want.

I recognize that there are different schools of thought on which stage would give the players the loudest voice; personally, I can't help but think that any individual player's efforts would be relegated to sideshow status in the shadow of the actual basketball being played, and I'm not surprised that some players who've watched black hoodies, "I Can't Breathe" shirts, and names written on sneaker tongues come and go for a decade agree.

wall_glizzy wrote:

Ruzious wrote:Oh give me a bleeping break, and dry up those crock tears. I was talking about him - not anybody else or anything else. Don't put words in my mouth.

And playing doesn't take away their ability to speak. People like Lebron James seem to understand that.

Do you feel differently about Avery Bradley then? Or does the below still apply?

Ruzious wrote:He doesn't even want to play. I think you're giving him way too much credit. This isn't about him expressing himself; it's about him intentionally trying to mess up a GREAT thing for a lot of other people [...] Trying to hurt the NBA and all the people that benefit from it makes no sense if he really had good intentions.

Because you've been conflating the two, I can't tell if your objection is to Kyrie alone or to anyone questioning the wisdom of the NBA returning exactly as-is. If you're painting all of the latter with the above brush, I don't know what to say. I want basketball back more than anything, but I can't imagine demanding that players ignore their own (extremely personal) misgivings to get back to the game on the timeline I want.

I recognize that there are different schools of thought on which stage would give the players the loudest voice; personally, I can't help but think that any individual player's efforts would be relegated to sideshow status in the shadow of the actual basketball being played, and I'm not surprised that some players who've watched black hoodies, "I Can't Breathe" shirts, and names written on sneaker tongues come and go for a decade agree.

I haven't been conflating anything. I've been talking about Kyrie alone, and I don't get how you see it otherwise. I'm not gonna spend a career on this subject and don't appreciate being put on the defensive for no good reason, so I'm out of this discussion.

I think Kyrie wasn't going to play either way. So, I don't see why he was involved in restart talks. If guys wanna sit out that their right as humans to not wanna do a certain job because of certain conditions. But there are guys who wanna play so take who wants to play get replacement players in there and get this show on the road and respect the guys rights to express what they wanna express. But the show will always go on with out you.

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Ruzious wrote:

Kanyewest wrote:

Ruzious wrote:Doc, there are lots of stories like this about Kyrie. https://chowderandchampions.com/2019/06/29/boston-celtics-kyrie-irving-giant-jerk/ I'm sure he's done some good thing as you mentioned, but I'm comfortable in saying he's a professional contrarian - at best. People like him have taken years off of my life. Good for you for finding the good in him.

To be fair, that's the mandatory article that comes out after a player leaves and the team always leaks negative stories.

There's probably a hundred of them. And there's some nice comments from Kendrick Perkins:

On Wednesday morning, longtime Boston Celtics forward Kendrick Perkins lit into Irving. Perkins called out the veteran point guard for his “lack of leadership.”

“Kyrie Irving, right now you are the distraction. You’re distracting the whole situation,” Perkins said. “It’s crazy to me because you come out and do something separately, without talking to your president Chris Paul or consulting with Michele Roberts and go off and do something totally different and get a group of guys together and say, ‘Let’s sit out’ – without a plan. It makes zero sense and I totally disagree with Kyrie Irving.”

Meanwhile Durant called out Perkins.



KD also retweeted some of Wilson Chandler's tweets directed at Perkins.
"Ex players turning into suckers right before your eyes on television."
https://imgur.com/gbpQ8Ee

Ruzious wrote:viewtopic.php?p=83335293#p83335293

bondom34 wrote:There are multiple ways to make a statement. Some players think it's best to make it through not playing. Some think it's best to do so while playing through that platform. Both groups seem to want to make a statement toward social reform.

Instead of yelling back and forth about one side being right or wrong or memeing Kyrie (which I admit is fun), maybe in this one it's not for sure and both sides have a point? I don't know what's best. I do respect that they wanted to make a statement and stood up for it.

Also a note, but this wasn't just Kyrie, plenty of players seemed to feel this way. He's the representative and was doing his job. But mostly I don't really think this is a "right vs wrong" issue, I think its two groups who both have the same goal thinking the way to get there is different and we don't know for sure which is best.

And if the Players increase pressure on the NBA and advertisers and other stakeholders to make a positive difference, then good. These people have communities they speak to beyond a faraway Wizard fan here and there. If their mind isn't in the frame to run around and sweat to entertain people when there are serious matters at hand, then okay. I have been distracted myself, and all I'm doing is making art and entertaining kids online and being a daddy. Kyrie is one guy. Its fair if there are a few who want to figure out a way to protest and make a difference by either doing the thing they do best, or by withholding that service to pressure the NBA to make additional efforts towards the cause. As for whether there is any benefit in Kyrie makign a public statement while also being Union president, hey maybe it helps to have a 'good cop/bad cop' thing going on. I know I've used that tactic as a union rep myself; you can listen to this reasonable guy who is being thoughtful, or we can turn to over to doc and go public with it and let him make a pitch to the public. Or how about both.

gambitx777 wrote:I think Kyrie wasn't going to play either way. So, I don't see why he was involved in restart talks. If guys wanna sit out that their right as humans to not wanna do a certain job because of certain conditions. But there are guys who wanna play so take who wants to play get replacement players in there and get this show on the road and respect the guys rights to express what they wanna express. But the show will always go on with out you.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

For Kyrie and some of the others this is more about social justice and the NBA's response to it than it is about whether or not to restart the season. So as an NBA player Kyrie has every right to be part of--even lead--the discussion of this important issue. It doesn't matter that he won't be playing.

Different sport, but this is distressing - hopefully a learning experience if it's found out if this was avoidable:

Jim Salisbury of NBC Sports Philadelphia reports that five Phillies players and three staff members at the team's spring training facility in Clearwater, FL have tested positive for COVID-19.

Salisbury adds that none of the eight infected have been hospitalized and the virus "appears to be under control in all of them." The Phillies have confirmed the report, adding that there are an additional 12 staff members and 20 players awaiting their test results (eight staff members have tested negative). This is the first known outbreak at a baseball team's facility, although realistically there are sure to be more, if there aren't already. It's a reminder that, even if MLB and the MLBPA bridge the gap on financial issues, there are major health hurdles in starting and completing a season.

SOURCE: NBC Sports Philadelphia

Jun 19, 2020, 9:32 AM ET

Ruzious wrote:Different sport, but this is distressing - hopefully a learning experience if it's found out if this was avoidable:

Jim Salisbury of NBC Sports Philadelphia reports that five Phillies players and three staff members at the team's spring training facility in Clearwater, FL have tested positive for COVID-19.

Salisbury adds that none of the eight infected have been hospitalized and the virus "appears to be under control in all of them." The Phillies have confirmed the report, adding that there are an additional 12 staff members and 20 players awaiting their test results (eight staff members have tested negative). This is the first known outbreak at a baseball team's facility, although realistically there are sure to be more, if there aren't already. It's a reminder that, even if MLB and the MLBPA bridge the gap on financial issues, there are major health hurdles in starting and completing a season.

SOURCE: NBC Sports Philadelphia

Jun 19, 2020, 9:32 AM ET

Florida may have not been the best place to restart the season given the corona cases are now rising there.

Not much to post. Let me add pure speculation: The league’s going to be forced to scrap the season because in about a month there’s going to be a spike in COVID19 deaths in Florida.

It’s just too risky. There’s not going to be a safe way to resume.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Not much to post. Let me add pure speculation: The league’s going to be forced to scrap the season because in about a month there’s going to be a spike in COVID19 deaths in Florida.

It’s just too risky. There’s not going to be a safe way to resume.

IMO they should just do a 2 week March Madness style tournament to wrap up the season and call it a day.

Then go ahead and do the draft and free agency in August so they can attempt a somewhat on schedule 20/21 season.

Picking a state run by maniacs probably not the best idea.

Not a chance I'd go to Florida if I was a player.