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Political Roundtable Part XXIX

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#781 » by TGW » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:12 pm

Read on Twitter
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#782 » by Wizardspride » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:12 am

Read on Twitter
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President Trump told two senior Russian officials in a 2017 Oval Office meeting that he was unconcerned about Moscow’s interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election because the United States did the same in other countries
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#783 » by queridiculo » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:15 pm

At what point does the concerted effort by the GOP to undermine the nations democracy rise to the level of treason?

This is a farce, you think it can't get worse and these buffoons up the ante.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#784 » by Ruzious » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:05 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:An excellent editorial about the danger of "compromising" between truth and lies. You don't "compromise" with a flat earther by agreeing the world is half round. You don't reach out to Nazis until they stop being Nazis.

"We all know that you do better bringing people out of delusion by being kind and inviting than by mocking them, but that’s inviting them to come over, which is not the same thing as heading in their direction."

https://lithub.com/rebecca-solnit-on-not-meeting-nazis-halfway/

Definitely not me, btw. I came out of my childhood in dirt poor south west Ohio believing that when people are jerks to you, you punch them in the face or they'll just keep doing it. You can smile and snivel and try to convince your abuser to stop being mean to you. Or you can pound him into submission.

This isn't an argument about facts. It's an abuser/victim relationship.

It's gotten to the point that I can't even imagine working with the Grahams and McConnells, and they're the 2 most powerful Republican for at least the next 4 years. They are traitors to our country. I just don't see this working anymore.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#785 » by Ruzious » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:10 pm

Gotta give Larry Hogan credit - saw him last night being highly critical of Trump for both the current handling of the virus and for his efforts to derail the election. And he even said he thinks the republican Senators who haven't stood up are either afraid of Trump or are just humoring him.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#786 » by doclinkin » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:16 pm

Larry Hogan has been an adult in all of this. A responsible leader. As lefty as I am I give credit where it is due. In his tenure and his stewardship during this crisis he has shown balls as big as his shiny bald head.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#787 » by TGW » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:18 pm

doclinkin wrote:Larry Hogan has been an adult in all of this. A responsible leader. As lefty as I am I give credit where it is due. In his tenure and his stewardship during this crisis he has shown balls as big as his shiny bald head.


:lol:

I also dislike Hogan immensely, but he has been a helluva lot more responsible than most leadership in the country, and that includes Democratic leadership.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#788 » by dobrojim » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:43 am

Ruzious wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:An excellent editorial about the danger of "compromising" between truth and lies. You don't "compromise" with a flat earther by agreeing the world is half round. You don't reach out to Nazis until they stop being Nazis.

"We all know that you do better bringing people out of delusion by being kind and inviting than by mocking them, but that’s inviting them to come over, which is not the same thing as heading in their direction."

https://lithub.com/rebecca-solnit-on-not-meeting-nazis-halfway/

Definitely not me, btw. I came out of my childhood in dirt poor south west Ohio believing that when people are jerks to you, you punch them in the face or they'll just keep doing it. You can smile and snivel and try to convince your abuser to stop being mean to you. Or you can pound him into submission.

This isn't an argument about facts. It's an abuser/victim relationship.

It's gotten to the point that I can't even imagine working with the Grahams and McConnells, and they're the 2 most powerful Republican for at least the next 4 years. They are traitors to our country. I just don't see this working anymore.



Chris Hayes mused about this at the top of his show tonight pointing
out that maybe 2/3 to 3/4 of the GOP voters (arguably a conservative estimate)
are basically cult followers and largely immune to any suggestions that would
cause or force them to apply critical thinking to their personal politics.
But you knew that already.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#789 » by I_Like_Dirt » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:18 am

dobrojim wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Zonkerbl wrote:An excellent editorial about the danger of "compromising" between truth and lies. You don't "compromise" with a flat earther by agreeing the world is half round. You don't reach out to Nazis until they stop being Nazis.

"We all know that you do better bringing people out of delusion by being kind and inviting than by mocking them, but that’s inviting them to come over, which is not the same thing as heading in their direction."

https://lithub.com/rebecca-solnit-on-not-meeting-nazis-halfway/

Definitely not me, btw. I came out of my childhood in dirt poor south west Ohio believing that when people are jerks to you, you punch them in the face or they'll just keep doing it. You can smile and snivel and try to convince your abuser to stop being mean to you. Or you can pound him into submission.

This isn't an argument about facts. It's an abuser/victim relationship.

It's gotten to the point that I can't even imagine working with the Grahams and McConnells, and they're the 2 most powerful Republican for at least the next 4 years. They are traitors to our country. I just don't see this working anymore.



Chris Hayes mused about this at the top of his show tonight pointing
out that maybe 2/3 to 3/4 of the GOP voters (arguably a conservative estimate)
are basically cult followers and largely immune to any suggestions that would
cause or force them to apply critical thinking to their personal politics.
But you knew that already.
Yes and no. I think it's hard to accept the reality of the situation at times. There ARE things Trump or any other Republican politician could do to lose their voters. Start talking about women's rights, climate action and minority issues and they'd be turfed by the voters in short order. The problem here is that the voters actually want a lot of this even if theh deny it. They'll throw stuff out there about how they don't really but it's all the same or whatever but their passion belies their intentions. Get them to talk more freely about what they believe and some rather disheartening stuff comes out pretty fast. I don't have answers, sadly, but the reality is rather clear at this point.

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#790 » by Pointgod » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:22 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
dobrojim wrote:
Ruzious wrote:It's gotten to the point that I can't even imagine working with the Grahams and McConnells, and they're the 2 most powerful Republican for at least the next 4 years. They are traitors to our country. I just don't see this working anymore.



Chris Hayes mused about this at the top of his show tonight pointing
out that maybe 2/3 to 3/4 of the GOP voters (arguably a conservative estimate)
are basically cult followers and largely immune to any suggestions that would
cause or force them to apply critical thinking to their personal politics.
But you knew that already.
Yes and no. I think it's hard to accept the reality of the situation at times. There ARE things Trump or any other Republican politician could do to lose their voters. Start talking about women's rights, climate action and minority issues and they'd be turfed by the voters in short order. The problem here is that the voters actually want a lot of this even if theh deny it. They'll throw stuff out there about how they don't really but it's all the same or whatever but their passion belies their intentions. Get them to talk more freely about what they believe and some rather disheartening stuff comes out pretty fast. I don't have answers, sadly, but the reality is rather clear at this point.

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I honestly don’t think there’s any position that the GOP could take that would make them lose voters. Remember this was the party that was always concerned about deficits, free trade, first amendment, pro life(they’re now a pro coronavirus death cult) not a peep about any of this under Trump. There needs to be a recognition and acceptance that Republican Party is now the extremist far right parties that exist in Europe, except over there they make up like 10% of the vote and in the US their floor is 45% of the vote. They’re not a party that’s interested in governing, making the lives of people better or making progress in America. They’re a full time grievance party wholly owned by billionaires and their voters will swallow any **** that they’re fed because millions have been spent on propaganda to make it so. They only exist to amass power for power’s sake.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#791 » by I_Like_Dirt » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:30 pm

Pointgod wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:
dobrojim wrote:

Chris Hayes mused about this at the top of his show tonight pointing
out that maybe 2/3 to 3/4 of the GOP voters (arguably a conservative estimate)
are basically cult followers and largely immune to any suggestions that would
cause or force them to apply critical thinking to their personal politics.
But you knew that already.
Yes and no. I think it's hard to accept the reality of the situation at times. There ARE things Trump or any other Republican politician could do to lose their voters. Start talking about women's rights, climate action and minority issues and they'd be turfed by the voters in short order. The problem here is that the voters actually want a lot of this even if theh deny it. They'll throw stuff out there about how they don't really but it's all the same or whatever but their passion belies their intentions. Get them to talk more freely about what they believe and some rather disheartening stuff comes out pretty fast. I don't have answers, sadly, but the reality is rather clear at this point.

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I honestly don’t think there’s any position that the GOP could take that would make them lose voters. Remember this was the party that was always concerned about deficits, free trade, first amendment, pro life(they’re now a pro coronavirus death cult) not a peep about any of this under Trump. There needs to be a recognition and acceptance that Republican Party is now the extremist far right parties that exist in Europe, except over there they make up like 10% of the vote and in the US their floor is 45% of the vote. They’re not a party that’s interested in governing, making the lives of people better or making progress in America. They’re a full time grievance party wholly owned by billionaires and their voters will swallow any **** that they’re fed because millions have been spent on propaganda to make it so. They only exist to amass power for power’s sake.
I mean, you start by disagreeing with me then turn around and agree with me. It's like 40% or more of the population that are now extremists. There's a reason non-extremists are losing primaries.

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#792 » by Ruzious » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:21 am

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-legal-team-disavows-association-232100382.html
Just amazing how Trump demands absolute loyalty, and when one of his toadies stops having value to him, he completely turns his back on them. I'm wondering if it's even possible to be a worse human being than him? I'm thinking that not even your typical mass murderer on death row has as many rotten parts to him.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#793 » by Wizardspride » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:11 am

Read on Twitter
?s=19
President Trump told two senior Russian officials in a 2017 Oval Office meeting that he was unconcerned about Moscow’s interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election because the United States did the same in other countries
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#794 » by montestewart » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:09 am

Wizardspride wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=19

Classy guy
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#795 » by Ruzious » Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:59 am

A reasonable response would be "Steve King, did your slave-owner descendants treat their slaves inhumanely?"
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#796 » by Dat2U » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:20 pm

Pointgod wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:
dobrojim wrote:

Chris Hayes mused about this at the top of his show tonight pointing
out that maybe 2/3 to 3/4 of the GOP voters (arguably a conservative estimate)
are basically cult followers and largely immune to any suggestions that would
cause or force them to apply critical thinking to their personal politics.
But you knew that already.
Yes and no. I think it's hard to accept the reality of the situation at times. There ARE things Trump or any other Republican politician could do to lose their voters. Start talking about women's rights, climate action and minority issues and they'd be turfed by the voters in short order. The problem here is that the voters actually want a lot of this even if theh deny it. They'll throw stuff out there about how they don't really but it's all the same or whatever but their passion belies their intentions. Get them to talk more freely about what they believe and some rather disheartening stuff comes out pretty fast. I don't have answers, sadly, but the reality is rather clear at this point.

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I honestly don’t think there’s any position that the GOP could take that would make them lose voters. Remember this was the party that was always concerned about deficits, free trade, first amendment, pro life(they’re now a pro coronavirus death cult) not a peep about any of this under Trump. There needs to be a recognition and acceptance that Republican Party is now the extremist far right parties that exist in Europe, except over there they make up like 10% of the vote and in the US their floor is 45% of the vote. They’re not a party that’s interested in governing, making the lives of people better or making progress in America. They’re a full time grievance party wholly owned by billionaires and their voters will swallow any **** that they’re fed because millions have been spent on propaganda to make it so. They only exist to amass power for power’s sake.


At least 40% of our citizens no longer want a democracy. They've love the authoritarian behavior displayed by Trump and have been so brainwashed by the right wing media complex, they embraced fascism. I've literally heard a number of them willingly volunteer a preference for fascism, with the excuse being 'anything is better socialism'.

Anyone having done their history on Nazi Germany sees the scary parallels. Trump is trying to pull a Hitler and find away to stay in power. The next 2 months honestly worry the **** out me because it's clear he still has enough political capital with his voters and followers to subvert democracy.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#797 » by I_Like_Dirt » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:27 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
I_Like_Dirt wrote:Yes and no. I think it's hard to accept the reality of the situation at times. There ARE things Trump or any other Republican politician could do to lose their voters. Start talking about women's rights, climate action and minority issues and they'd be turfed by the voters in short order. The problem here is that the voters actually want a lot of this even if theh deny it. They'll throw stuff out there about how they don't really but it's all the same or whatever but their passion belies their intentions. Get them to talk more freely about what they believe and some rather disheartening stuff comes out pretty fast. I don't have answers, sadly, but the reality is rather clear at this point.

Sent from my SM-G970W using RealGM mobile app


I honestly don’t think there’s any position that the GOP could take that would make them lose voters. Remember this was the party that was always concerned about deficits, free trade, first amendment, pro life(they’re now a pro coronavirus death cult) not a peep about any of this under Trump. There needs to be a recognition and acceptance that Republican Party is now the extremist far right parties that exist in Europe, except over there they make up like 10% of the vote and in the US their floor is 45% of the vote. They’re not a party that’s interested in governing, making the lives of people better or making progress in America. They’re a full time grievance party wholly owned by billionaires and their voters will swallow any **** that they’re fed because millions have been spent on propaganda to make it so. They only exist to amass power for power’s sake.


At least 40% of our citizens no longer want a democracy. They've love the authoritarian behavior displayed by Trump and have been so brainwashed by the right wing media complex, they embraced fascism. I've literally heard a number of them willingly volunteer a preference for fascism, with the excuse being 'anything is better socialism'.

Anyone having done their history on Nazi Germany sees the scary parallels. Trump is trying to pull a Hitler and find away to stay in power. The next 2 months honestly worry the **** out me because it's clear he still has enough political capital with his voters and followers to subvert democracy.
Yeah, Trump isn't actually the problem is the key point to recognize. He's a symptom. I'm no fan of Trump but the far bigger danger is all the people that actually want this because the next Trump may ever so slightly more competent which would be a problem.

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#798 » by Ruzious » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:58 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
I honestly don’t think there’s any position that the GOP could take that would make them lose voters. Remember this was the party that was always concerned about deficits, free trade, first amendment, pro life(they’re now a pro coronavirus death cult) not a peep about any of this under Trump. There needs to be a recognition and acceptance that Republican Party is now the extremist far right parties that exist in Europe, except over there they make up like 10% of the vote and in the US their floor is 45% of the vote. They’re not a party that’s interested in governing, making the lives of people better or making progress in America. They’re a full time grievance party wholly owned by billionaires and their voters will swallow any **** that they’re fed because millions have been spent on propaganda to make it so. They only exist to amass power for power’s sake.


At least 40% of our citizens no longer want a democracy. They've love the authoritarian behavior displayed by Trump and have been so brainwashed by the right wing media complex, they embraced fascism. I've literally heard a number of them willingly volunteer a preference for fascism, with the excuse being 'anything is better socialism'.

Anyone having done their history on Nazi Germany sees the scary parallels. Trump is trying to pull a Hitler and find away to stay in power. The next 2 months honestly worry the **** out me because it's clear he still has enough political capital with his voters and followers to subvert democracy.
Yeah, Trump isn't actually the problem is the key point to recognize. He's a symptom. I'm no fan of Trump but the far bigger danger is all the people that actually want this because the next Trump may ever so slightly more competent which would be a problem.

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And the proof is in the fact that none of the Republican Senators are doing anything to reign back Trump now - even while Trump is essentially ignoring all his Presidential duties while the US is in crisis mode. And Graham getting re-elected - after doing the biggest 180 in political history when he overnight switched from being Trump's biggest detractor into his biggest booster - was the final straw - even with SC having a horrible political history.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#799 » by doclinkin » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:35 pm

Ruzious wrote:And the proof is in the fact that none of the Republican Senators are doing anything to reign back Trump now - even while Trump is essentially ignoring all his Presidential duties while the US is in crisis mode. .



Worse than ignoring. It's a shell game. He is trying to distract what is really going on with his public antics and fake legal challenge. Meanwhile he is paying his debts to Russia and making it difficult for the next president on purpose. He's pulling out of the Open Skies treaty, and like the Post Office chief who tried to scuttle sorting machines he wants our spy planes scrapped.

Who does that benefit? And why the rush to do this so quickly?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-exits-open-skies-treaty-moves-to-discard-observation-planes-11606055371

This on top of scrapping the commissioners in charge of nuclear security, and transfer of US moneys to overseas projects. Whose directors and watchdogs he has been firing left and right in his tenure.

https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-2020-election-results/2020/11/06/932376507/trump-dumps-3-agency-leaders-in-wake-of-election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Trump_administration_dismissals_and_resignations

AS well as firing Esper and putting intelligence under the gun. I would bet the Intel community is probably trying to keep him out of the loop on any intel that he could leverage after he is fired and dragged out of office. He has to salvage millions of dollars of salable goods before he is hauled off. No doubt he is trying to strip mine for parts everything he can get his pudgy little fingers on.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#800 » by Ruzious » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:57 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Ruzious wrote:And the proof is in the fact that none of the Republican Senators are doing anything to reign back Trump now - even while Trump is essentially ignoring all his Presidential duties while the US is in crisis mode. .



Worse than ignoring. It's a shell game. He is trying to distract what is really going on with his public antics and fake legal challenge. Meanwhile he is paying his debts to Russia and making it difficult for the next president on purpose. He's pulling out of the Open Skies treaty, and like the Post Office chief who tried to scuttle sorting machines he wants our spy planes scrapped.

Who does that benefit? And why the rush to do this so quickly?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-exits-open-skies-treaty-moves-to-discard-observation-planes-11606055371

This on top of scrapping the commissioners in charge of nuclear security, and transfer of US moneys to overseas projects. Whose directors and watchdogs he has been firing left and right in his tenure.

https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-2020-election-results/2020/11/06/932376507/trump-dumps-3-agency-leaders-in-wake-of-election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Trump_administration_dismissals_and_resignations

AS well as firing Esper and putting intelligence under the gun. I would bet the Intel community is probably trying to keep him out of the loop on any intel that he could leverage after he is fired and dragged out of office. He has to salvage millions of dollars of salable goods before he is hauled off. No doubt he is trying to strip mine for parts everything he can get his pudgy little fingers on.

The job for Biden will be overwhelming just in putting back structure in all the government agencies and organizations that Trump has intentionally left without any real leadership and direction. Humpty Trumpty sat on a Wall. Humpty Trumpty had a great fall. All the king's horses and all the king's men, couldn't put Trumpty together again. Edit - probably lots of people beat me to the punch on that one. https://www.amazon.com/Humpty-Trumpty-Donald-Gorbach/dp/1984332961

One way or another, Trump is going to get his loans paid off. But what is the damage coming from one way or the other? Right now, his concerns are that, making things difficult for Biden in as many ways as he can, and getting revenge on anyone he doesn't think has been loyal to him. Doing his job isn't on the list of priorities.
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