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Political Roundtable Part XXIX

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1821 » by Pointgod » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:24 pm

dobrojim wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:
Read on Twitter
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I remember there water a lot of smug and self righteous Bernie suppression claiming Russiagate was a hoax. My only question is why was Mueller so inept at investigating this pretty obvious smoking gun?


Mueller wasn't inept. He was prevented or limited in the scope of the investigation by the DoJ.
This was totally unknown or underappreciated at the time.


Yes he was inept. He didn’t insist on looking into Trump’s finances, he didn’t insist on having Trump sit down for an in person interview under oath (something that Bull Clinton did) and perhaps the worst is that he let Bill Barr and Republicans politically hijack and distort the report to the point where it was even debatable.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1822 » by dobrojim » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:16 pm

Pointgod wrote:
dobrojim wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
I remember there water a lot of smug and self righteous Bernie suppression claiming Russiagate was a hoax. My only question is why was Mueller so inept at investigating this pretty obvious smoking gun?


Mueller wasn't inept. He was prevented or limited in the scope of the investigation by the DoJ.
This was totally unknown or underappreciated at the time.


Yes he was inept. He didn’t insist on looking into Trump’s finances, he didn’t insist on having Trump sit down for an in person interview under oath (something that Bull Clinton did) and perhaps the worst is that he let Bill Barr and Republicans politically hijack and distort the report to the point where it was even debatable.


He did the job they assigned to him. He is an institutionalist. If you want to fault him,
do so on the grounds that he accepted a job in which it was or should have been clear
he would not be allowed to pursue as one should. He was PROHIBITED from doing the
things we both agree he should have been able to do. Given the team he assembled,
I am pretty certain he could have done much more. But he accepted the job on the terms
it was offered and was handcuffed from doing the job he should have known needed to be done.
The DoJ told him he could not look at tRump's finances. Also he wanted to be able to complete the
job in a reasonable amount of time but the stonewalling prevented it. So he continued in
a more limited way.

The public perception of his mandate didn't understand any of this.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/07/06/why-the-mueller-investigation-failed

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/08/30/report-justice-department-quietly-limited-robert-muellers-russia-investigation/?sh=22b38e4a35e9
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1823 » by Wizardspride » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:43 pm

:-?

Read on Twitter
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Read on Twitter
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President Trump told two senior Russian officials in a 2017 Oval Office meeting that he was unconcerned about Moscow’s interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election because the United States did the same in other countries
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1824 » by Wizardspride » Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:00 pm

Read on Twitter
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Read on Twitter
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Read on Twitter
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President Trump told two senior Russian officials in a 2017 Oval Office meeting that he was unconcerned about Moscow’s interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election because the United States did the same in other countries
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1825 » by Pointgod » Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:50 pm

Wizardspride wrote:
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Read on Twitter
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How do you guys personally feel about DC Statehood?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1826 » by Zonkerbl » Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:57 pm

I absolutely want idiots from Utah to stop dictating dc policy, it's absolute horsecrap

DC has come a long way since they first were allowed autonomy in the seventies. They've recovered from the riots, the city is well run, the economy is thriving, and racism is bs and dc is entirely capable of managing themselves.
These go to eleven.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1827 » by Ruzious » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:52 pm

Pointgod wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=19


Read on Twitter
?s=19


Read on Twitter
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How do you guys personally feel about DC Statehood?

Has there been a reason given against it that's not absurdly stupid?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1828 » by pancakes3 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:38 pm

DC deserves statehood, as does Puerto Rico. Having relics of the past where 700k citizens in DC and 3 million citizens in PR not have their votes counted is voter suppression, plain and simple.

All "territories" deserve statehood, or at least representation.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1829 » by Pointgod » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:40 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=19


Read on Twitter
?s=19


Read on Twitter
?s=19


How do you guys personally feel about DC Statehood?

Has there been a reason given against it that's not absurdly stupid?


The only non stupid/racist argument is that DC could be rolled into Maryland to get representation in Congress.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1830 » by montestewart » Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:09 pm

Pointgod wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
How do you guys personally feel about DC Statehood?

Has there been a reason given against it that's not absurdly stupid?


The only non stupid/racist argument is that DC could be rolled into Maryland to get representation in Congress.

Polling has shown that proposal
Not very popular in DC or MD. Republicans seem to like it best, if there simply must be some representation.

DC has been separate from MD longer than most states have been states. Have any other territories been absorbed into preexisting states in order to get congressional representation? Why would DC do that? And why settle for no Senators? And wouldn’t absorption into Maryland water down minority representation in Congress?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1831 » by Pointgod » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:14 pm

montestewart wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Has there been a reason given against it that's not absurdly stupid?


The only non stupid/racist argument is that DC could be rolled into Maryland to get representation in Congress.

Polling has shown that proposal
Not very popular in DC or MD. Republicans seem to like it best, if there simply must be some representation.

DC has been separate from MD longer than most states have been states. Have any other territories been absorbed into preexisting states in order to get congressional representation? Why would DC do that? And why settle for no Senators? And wouldn’t absorption into Maryland water down minority representation in Congress?


Hey don’t get me wrong, I still think it’s a **** reason but throwing something out there that’s non ridiculous.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1832 » by montestewart » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:52 pm

Pointgod wrote:
montestewart wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
The only non stupid/racist argument is that DC could be rolled into Maryland to get representation in Congress.

Polling has shown that proposal
Not very popular in DC or MD. Republicans seem to like it best, if there simply must be some representation.

DC has been separate from MD longer than most states have been states. Have any other territories been absorbed into preexisting states in order to get congressional representation? Why would DC do that? And why settle for no Senators? And wouldn’t absorption into Maryland water down minority representation in Congress?


Hey don’t get me wrong, I still think it’s a **** reason but throwing something out there that’s non ridiculous.

Yeah, I know you well enough to know that, just really dislike the idea. It's an 11th hour compromise coming from the same circles that have never had a leg to stand on, just when it looks like popular support and congressional support catches up with logical arguments.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1833 » by dobrojim » Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:37 pm

As usual, cons/GQP are unable/unwilling to offer Good Faith arguments against DC (or PR) statehood.
I think the vast majority of their 'policy' arguments, being generous to even call them that, are based
purely on the exercise of power and the fervent wish to be able to continue to exercise (minority) power.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1834 » by pancakes3 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:01 pm

the ground floor of a good faith compromise is to give DC 1 senator instead of 2 because the physical dimensions of the city simply do not justify 2 senators. like, ok. i can buy that.

but to flatly deny it because... of... what. no reason? that's not good faith. there isn't even pretext. it's a pure and naked "make me" posture.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1835 » by dobrojim » Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:58 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/20/derek-chauvin-trial-verdict/

Former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin has been convicted of second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter in the death of George Floyd on Memorial Day. He was immediately taken into custody after the jury announced its verdicts Tuesday afternoon, and he will be sentenced in the coming weeks.


Guilty on all three counts.

More of a human interest aspect


The teenager who captured the world’s attention with her cellphone footage of Floyd’s arrest last year said she sobbed Tuesday after jurors returned a guilty verdict for Chauvin.

“I just cried so hard,” 18-year-old Darnella Frazier wrote on Facebook. “This last hour my heart was beating so fast, I was so anxious, anxiety bussing through the roof. But to know GUILTY ON ALL 3 CHARGES !!! THANK YOU GOD THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU”


My daughter comment re Darnella
An incredible young woman and it makes my heart ache to think she will need to carry the trauma of bearing witness to a horrific murder for the rest of her life
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1836 » by queridiculo » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:21 am

My eyes well up every time I think about this grown man crying out for his mother.

To this day I can't bring myself to watch even a second of this video, the descriptions are enough to send shivers up my spine.

I can't imagine what it must been like to witness this unfold and much less the resolve it must have taken for this young girl not to give in to the urge to turn away and to document this act of callousness for the rest of the world instead.

I was numb watching the verdict.

Relieved, sure, and hopeful that perhaps this will truly be a catalyst to reform policing in the US.

But I was also struck by Chauvin's unwavering resolve to defend his actions and for him to stand by what he did as if it was just another day in the office.

For the prosecution there wasn't even a need for closing arguments, all they would have had to do is play the tape, those 10 minutes of terror caught by happenstance.

How Chauvin could sit there content with a plea of not-guilty through all of the proceedings with this damning evidence out there for everybody to see is a testament to how big of a problem policing in the United States is.

Like all of those other sadistic cowards that have gone free before him, he truly thought that he too would be protected by the badge.

This lack of accountability that empowers these small, weak men and women to terrorize those that need protection the most has to stop.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1837 » by Ruzious » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:46 am

Is Tucker Carlson putting on an act, or is he really this vile and stupid? By his words, he is pro murder - not even going into the obvious racism. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nope-done-tucker-carlson-shuts-down-interview-after-guest-said-chauvin-used-excessive-force/ar-BB1fSn2P?li=BBnb7Kz

At some point, even Fox has to get this thing off the air. Didn't he used to be somewhat intelligent?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1838 » by doclinkin » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:52 am

queridiculo wrote:
But I was also struck by Chauvin's unwavering resolve to defend his actions and for him to stand by what he did as if it was just another day in the office.
...
How Chauvin could sit there content with a plea of not-guilty through all of the proceedings with this damning evidence out there for everybody to see is a testament to how big of a problem policing in the United States is.

Like all of those other sadistic cowards that have gone free before him, he truly thought that he too would be protected by the badge.

This lack of accountability that empowers these small, weak men and women to terrorize those that need protection the most has to stop.


He had every reason to think that considering that while police kill upwards of a thousand people a year, over the 15 year period from 2005 to 2020 there have only been just about 30 convictions of officers under charges admitting their culpability in death of citizens. (Homicide, manslaughter etc). And 10 more that were convicted of a lesser charge like "official misconduct".

Wikipedia.

Updated estimates from the Bureau of Justice Statistics released in 2015 estimate the number to be around 930 per year, or 1,240 if assuming that non-reporting local agencies kill people at the same rate as reporting agencies.



Statistica. Chart: Number of nonfederal police officers arrested for murder who have been convicted between 2005 and 2020, by charge

In the United States between 2005 and 2020, of the 42 nonfederal police officers convicted following their arrest for murder due to an on-duty shooting, only five ended up being convicted of murder. The most common offense these officers were convicted of was the lesser charge of manslaughter, with 11 convictions.


Think about it, about ~15,000 people killed by police in that period. Only 30 convictions.

We lost 1/5 that amount in the World Trade Tower/Pentagon hijackings and now can't bring toothpaste on the plane.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1839 » by closg00 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:04 pm

Ruzious wrote:Is Tucker Carlson putting on an act, or is he really this vile and stupid? By his words, he is pro murder - not even going into the obvious racism. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nope-done-tucker-carlson-shuts-down-interview-after-guest-said-chauvin-used-excessive-force/ar-BB1fSn2P?li=BBnb7Kz

At some point, even Fox has to get this thing off the air. Didn't he used to be somewhat intelligent?


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Re: Political Roundtable Part XXIX 

Post#1840 » by Wizardspride » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:26 pm

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