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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1341 » by dckingsfan » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:46 pm

nate33 wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
nate33 wrote:No. That's horrible. Bledsoe is 31 and Redick is 36. Those 2 first round picks won't even be in the lottery and probably won't be in the top 20.

They have multiple first round picks coming from multiple places. I would think we would pick the years and get the best first in each of those years. Redick is an expiring and Bledsoe isn't fully guaranteed ($3.9 million guaranteed) for 2022-23. Guess is we could get some 2nd rounders as well.

Their picks are from the Lakers and Milwaukee, both are teams that are guaranteed to be in the playoffs for the next 4 years. And New Orleans' own picks aren't going to be very good when they have Beal, Zion and Ingram. It's a really, really bad idea.

I hadn't considered that... I might still be good with it but then it would need to be in the 3 or 4 pick range.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1342 » by Ruzious » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:11 pm

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:What about a deal with OKC? Something centered around Dort, Diallo, Bazley +multiple 1sts&filler?

We could get 1st rounders in 2021, 2022, and 2023.

I don't think OKC is ready to make the jump from "rebuilding" to "competing". They're going to do "the process" at least through the 2021 draft.

I'm thinking OKC could be a good 3rd team to include in a Beal trade - after looking at Diallo's stats this season - so far, he's made a remarkable improvement, and that's even though he still doesn't have a 3 point shot. Can he keep this up? Maybe - he's always been considered a great athlete with raw skills. Dort's also a good young player - though doesn't have the kind of potential that Diallo has, imo.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1343 » by SA37 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:10 pm

Ruzious wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:
Frichuela wrote:After watching Tyler Herro’s poise and performance last night, I’m even keener on a Beal trade with Miami. Herro has the potential to be as good as Beal. He’s got 3 1/2 years left on a great rookie deal (was picked 13th).

Make the trade, get Achiuwa, a far in the future 1st round pick and run!

Obviously, get rid of Brooks too for a good coach who can install decent X and Os and develop a young core of Herro/Avdija/Rui/Achiuwa together with Bryant/Matthews/Troy/Bonga. We would probably have to keep Westbrook and Bertans until they can be traded for some positive value.





I'm with you on this. I was impressed with both Herro & Achiuwa, I like their games and how they play.

Riley loves the star factor, acquiring established big time players (Butler, LeBron, Bosh, Shaq, Alonzo, Juwan Howard, etc), and has reportedly coveted Beal the past couple years.

I would do it...build on Avdija, Hachimura, Achiuwa, Herro, Mathews, Troy Brown Jr, Bonga, Bryant. Add a top 3 pick to this mix (Cunningham or Suggs?).

Deal Westbrook for cap friendly contracts (I'm thinking Clippers?).

Replace Brooks

We'd need some picks in addition to Herro and Achiuwa. Is Miami's first available 1st in 2025? If so, make it 2 of their 2025, 2027, and 2029 1sts - unprotected. They're a very good organization, so they should have confidence that those picks will be low.

Looks like we'd probably have to take on the contracts of Iguodola and Leonard - who are both signed through next season. Might make sense to buy them out and let them go back to Miami.

If there's a problem - because the 2023 pick has some protection on it, Miami can take off the protection - and perhaps get a 2nd round pick in exchange for doing that.


I don't think there is any way Riley makes that deal.

This season is looking more and more like an extended summer league or series of exhibition games where the goal is basically to not get hurt, for a handful of players to increase their value going into free agency, and to get younger players experience. On top of everything, the NBA may have to take some drastic measures to stop the season a few weeks, which would mean almost starting over from scratch aka another 3-4 weeks of games where teams slowly work themselves back into game shape...it's just a mess.

For Miami, this essentially takes any pressure off of any team expectations and really lets Miami see what they have in their young guys. Miami can comfortably see if any discounts present themselves at the trade deadline and during the Draft/free agency. At the same time, the price for Harden, Beal, and any other players approaching FA or a player option should come down.

The NBA has put in place salary cap measures to soften the economic blow for NBA teams, but behind that, there is an economic reality that almost no team is going to be able to escape. Both Washington and Houston will have very little wiggle room to add players to their rosters without getting into the Tax and they're only going to have 5 or 6 players under contract who are rotation guys (and, for Washington, one of those guys will be Bryant, who I imagine will take a very cautious approach to his return). The pressure to get value for Harden or Beal will be enormous for those franchises and, because of their abilities to opt out, both Harden and Beal will essentially have veto power over where they can go, which will drive prices down even further.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1344 » by wall_glizzy » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:19 pm

SA37 wrote:I don't think there is any way Riley makes that deal.

This season is looking more and more like an extended summer league or series of exhibition games where the goal is basically to not get hurt, for a handful of players to increase their value going into free agency, and to get younger players experience. On top of everything, the NBA may have to take some drastic measures to stop the season a few weeks, which would mean almost starting over from scratch aka another 3-4 weeks of games where teams slowly work themselves back into game shape...it's just a mess.

For Miami, this essentially takes any pressure off of any team expectations and really lets Miami see what they have in their young guys. Miami can comfortably see if any discounts present themselves at the trade deadline and during the Draft/free agency. At the same time, the price for Harden, Beal, and any other players approaching FA or a player option should come down.

The NBA has put in place salary cap measures to soften the economic blow for NBA teams, but behind that, there is an economic reality that almost no team is going to be able to escape. Both Washington and Houston will have very little wiggle room to add players to their rosters without getting into the Tax and they're only going to have 5 or 6 players under contract who are rotation guys (and, for Washington, one of those guys will be Bryant, who I imagine will take a very cautious approach to his return). The pressure to get value for Harden or Beal will be enormous for those franchises and, because of their abilities to opt out, both Harden and Beal will essentially have veto power over where they can go, which will drive prices down even further.


So you think after making the finals last year (and with Giannis having signed his extension), the Heat have less pressure on them vis a vis making a big signing/acquisition this offseason?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1345 » by closg00 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:03 am

The floodgates have opened on Beal trade articles again
The Wizards finally get a draft steal in Deni Avdija
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1346 » by Ruzious » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:13 am

SA37 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:



I'm with you on this. I was impressed with both Herro & Achiuwa, I like their games and how they play.

Riley loves the star factor, acquiring established big time players (Butler, LeBron, Bosh, Shaq, Alonzo, Juwan Howard, etc), and has reportedly coveted Beal the past couple years.

I would do it...build on Avdija, Hachimura, Achiuwa, Herro, Mathews, Troy Brown Jr, Bonga, Bryant. Add a top 3 pick to this mix (Cunningham or Suggs?).

Deal Westbrook for cap friendly contracts (I'm thinking Clippers?).

Replace Brooks

We'd need some picks in addition to Herro and Achiuwa. Is Miami's first available 1st in 2025? If so, make it 2 of their 2025, 2027, and 2029 1sts - unprotected. They're a very good organization, so they should have confidence that those picks will be low.

Looks like we'd probably have to take on the contracts of Iguodola and Leonard - who are both signed through next season. Might make sense to buy them out and let them go back to Miami.

If there's a problem - because the 2023 pick has some protection on it, Miami can take off the protection - and perhaps get a 2nd round pick in exchange for doing that.


I don't think there is any way Riley makes that deal.

This season is looking more and more like an extended summer league or series of exhibition games where the goal is basically to not get hurt, for a handful of players to increase their value going into free agency, and to get younger players experience. On top of everything, the NBA may have to take some drastic measures to stop the season a few weeks, which would mean almost starting over from scratch aka another 3-4 weeks of games where teams slowly work themselves back into game shape...it's just a mess.

For Miami, this essentially takes any pressure off of any team expectations and really lets Miami see what they have in their young guys. Miami can comfortably see if any discounts present themselves at the trade deadline and during the Draft/free agency. At the same time, the price for Harden, Beal, and any other players approaching FA or a player option should come down.

The NBA has put in place salary cap measures to soften the economic blow for NBA teams, but behind that, there is an economic reality that almost no team is going to be able to escape. Both Washington and Houston will have very little wiggle room to add players to their rosters without getting into the Tax and they're only going to have 5 or 6 players under contract who are rotation guys (and, for Washington, one of those guys will be Bryant, who I imagine will take a very cautious approach to his return). The pressure to get value for Harden or Beal will be enormous for those franchises and, because of their abilities to opt out, both Harden and Beal will essentially have veto power over where they can go, which will drive prices down even further.

It's fair that you wouldn't make that deal, but I'm not getting your reasoning at all. If there's one thing Riley wants; it's an NBA championship. Beal would help win it.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1347 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:20 am

Not a trade. But I’d like us to sign Kyle O’Quinn.

I’ve always liked him.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1348 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:53 am

What about a trade with Philly for Tony Bradley ? He's kinda stuck behind Embiid and Howard.

Maybe for Robinson, or Troy Brown Jr? Either of them would be a salary match.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7379071
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1349 » by NatP4 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:25 am

I’m excepting Bryant, Ish, and Hachimura for Myles Turner.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1350 » by gambitx777 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:25 am

These micro trades are weird these days when half you're team can get sidelind with covid but I'd be all for it
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:What about a trade with Philly for Tony Bradley ? He's kinda stuck behind Embiid and Howard.

Maybe for Robinson, or Troy Brown Jr? Either of them would be a salary match.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7379071


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1351 » by NatP4 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:29 am

Bradley’s numbers are insane. 6 offensive rebounds per 36 last season. Shot almost 67% from the field. Not that small of a sample size either, almost 700 minutes.

I’m not sure about his actual defensive impact though. Utah and Detroit moved him for a reason, though for actual assets each time.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1352 » by SA37 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:49 am

wall_glizzy wrote:
Spoiler:
SA37 wrote:I don't think there is any way Riley makes that deal.

This season is looking more and more like an extended summer league or series of exhibition games where the goal is basically to not get hurt, for a handful of players to increase their value going into free agency, and to get younger players experience. On top of everything, the NBA may have to take some drastic measures to stop the season a few weeks, which would mean almost starting over from scratch aka another 3-4 weeks of games where teams slowly work themselves back into game shape...it's just a mess.

For Miami, this essentially takes any pressure off of any team expectations and really lets Miami see what they have in their young guys. Miami can comfortably see if any discounts present themselves at the trade deadline and during the Draft/free agency. At the same time, the price for Harden, Beal, and any other players approaching FA or a player option should come down.

The NBA has put in place salary cap measures to soften the economic blow for NBA teams, but behind that, there is an economic reality that almost no team is going to be able to escape. Both Washington and Houston will have very little wiggle room to add players to their rosters without getting into the Tax and they're only going to have 5 or 6 players under contract who are rotation guys (and, for Washington, one of those guys will be Bryant, who I imagine will take a very cautious approach to his return). The pressure to get value for Harden or Beal will be enormous for those franchises and, because of their abilities to opt out, both Harden and Beal will essentially have veto power over where they can go, which will drive prices down even further.


So you think after making the finals last year (and with Giannis having signed his extension), the Heat have less pressure on them vis a vis making a big signing/acquisition this offseason?


Personally, I don't think there is any pressure to get back to the Finals, at least not this season. I think the Heat had a lot of things go their way with playoff seeding (they avoided a strong Toronto team, Philadelphia lost Simmons to injury, Indiana did not have Oladipo at full strength, Brooklyn was without Durant or Irving, and Boston got Hayward back from injury mid-series); that combined with strong play in very strange circumstances led to a very unlikely result. However, I get that I will be in the minority in that regard and a fair amount of people believe if Miami doesn't make the Finals, it will be a total failure. To me, that ignores Miami's good fortune and Eastern Conference teams getting better (Philadelphia, Brooklyn, Milwaukee, Atlanta, Indiana).

How much pressure Riley and the Heat organization might feel to acquire a star/sign a big free agent depends a lot on how they feel about Herro and Bam's ceilings; it is possible Miami is already has its "Big 3," one of whom will be on a rookie deal for the next 2-3 seasons, allowing Miami the luxury of getting a 4th "star". Miami is going to have around $23-$24M in cap space this summer, which can be used to acquire a good player without having to match salaries, and despite FA being quite thin on talent, there are going to be good players available.

One thing that does put pressure on the Heat is the fact that Jimmy Butler is 31 and Goran Dragic will be 35 at the end of the season. However, between the cap space Miami has, the ability to offer immediate cap relief to other teams in a trade, and, in theory, with Beal and Harden being available via trade, Miami is in a strong position. I am guessing here, but I don't think Miami views Beal as being as much of a game-changer as Harden and Miami will likely sit tight on a trade until Harden's situation gets resolved.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1353 » by SA37 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:59 am

Ruzious wrote:
SA37 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:We'd need some picks in addition to Herro and Achiuwa. Is Miami's first available 1st in 2025? If so, make it 2 of their 2025, 2027, and 2029 1sts - unprotected. They're a very good organization, so they should have confidence that those picks will be low.

Looks like we'd probably have to take on the contracts of Iguodola and Leonard - who are both signed through next season. Might make sense to buy them out and let them go back to Miami.

If there's a problem - because the 2023 pick has some protection on it, Miami can take off the protection - and perhaps get a 2nd round pick in exchange for doing that.


I don't think there is any way Riley makes that deal.

This season is looking more and more like an extended summer league or series of exhibition games where the goal is basically to not get hurt, for a handful of players to increase their value going into free agency, and to get younger players experience. On top of everything, the NBA may have to take some drastic measures to stop the season a few weeks, which would mean almost starting over from scratch aka another 3-4 weeks of games where teams slowly work themselves back into game shape...it's just a mess.

For Miami, this essentially takes any pressure off of any team expectations and really lets Miami see what they have in their young guys. Miami can comfortably see if any discounts present themselves at the trade deadline and during the Draft/free agency. At the same time, the price for Harden, Beal, and any other players approaching FA or a player option should come down.

The NBA has put in place salary cap measures to soften the economic blow for NBA teams, but behind that, there is an economic reality that almost no team is going to be able to escape. Both Washington and Houston will have very little wiggle room to add players to their rosters without getting into the Tax and they're only going to have 5 or 6 players under contract who are rotation guys (and, for Washington, one of those guys will be Bryant, who I imagine will take a very cautious approach to his return). The pressure to get value for Harden or Beal will be enormous for those franchises and, because of their abilities to opt out, both Harden and Beal will essentially have veto power over where they can go, which will drive prices down even further.

It's fair that you wouldn't make that deal, but I'm not getting your reasoning at all. If there's one thing Riley wants; it's an NBA championship. Beal would help win it.



I have no idea how high Riley and Heat management might be on Beal as compared to Herro, which would make all the difference. I just think with the potential dynamics of this season, the economic situation of the league over the next 4-5 years, and the difficulty for both the Wizards and the Rockets to put together a competitive team before Beal and Harden's player options come up gives Miami a lot of leverage and potentially allows Miami to hold out for an even better deal.

This could all backfire because there are other teams out there who may be willing to pay up to acquire Beal, but I think the choices are limited because if Beal won't commit to an extension, getting the value Washington and people on this board are looking for just won't happen.

I think there are 4 teams that Beal would agree to an extension with and Washington could extract good value from:

    Atlanta - if they won't include Collins, the package is less appealing, but some package of Reddish, Hunter, Heurter, and picks (plus Snell or Capela) would still be a good haul.

    Brooklyn - they can offer a package around LeVert, DeAndre Jordan, Taurean Prince, Landry Shamet, Timothe Luwawu, Nic Claxton, and picks.

    Indiana - (I am going to assume the roster would enough to get a commitment from Beal, but I am not sure) could basically offer a deal around Malcolm Brogdon or TJ Warren, Myles Turner, the Holiday brothers, and picks.

    Memphis - (I am going to assume playing with Morant and Jaren Jackson would be enough to convince him to sign long-term) They could offer a package centered around Gorgui Dieng, Brandon Clarke, Dillon Brooks, and picks.


Sacramento could offer Bagley and Hield, but I don't think Beal would commit long-term to Sacramento. Dallas and Phoenix would be interested, but Dallas has nothing to offer and I don't think Phoenix could make it work financially (assuming they want to keep Paul). I don't think Denver (Porter Jr) or Philadelphia (Simmons) would offer their main/only trade asset of interest. I don't see Beal making much sense for Boston, Portland, or Golden St.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1354 » by pcbothwel » Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:55 pm

SA... Beal is not committing to anywhere. He will be a 10 year vet after next year and there is no incentive to extend early.

The Nets, Pacers, and Grizz offers you posted are trash and I would rather trade Beal at the deadline next winter if Brandon Clarke and Levert are the top young guys coming back.
Same with the Kings. Bagley and Hield are NEGATIVE value.
Porter is interesting, even if I have reservations about his overall ceiling due to poor defense and passing.

Not interested in Simmons. I've heard just awful things about his work ethic and it shows. GLARING red flags. 4 years straight of AST%, Usage, and shooting splits going down while TOV% going up. I want no part of Simmons as the main piece coming back.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1355 » by Dat2U » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:07 pm

NatP4 wrote:Bradley’s numbers are insane. 6 offensive rebounds per 36 last season. Shot almost 67% from the field. Not that small of a sample size either, almost 700 minutes.

I’m not sure about his actual defensive impact though. Utah and Detroit moved him for a reason, though for actual assets each time.


Defense. He's less valuable despite the statistics due to his struggles defending the C position.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1356 » by NatP4 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:33 pm

The Atlanta trade seems so much better than the GS, Denver, or Miami scenarios. Hunter+Collins+2021 ATL 1st round pick seems like a home run to me. Avdija-Hunter-Collins could be our starting frontcourt for the next 5 years. Bonga-Bertans-Bryant off the bench. Allows Bryant to work back in slowly after his injury. Mathews can step into the starting 2 guard spot. Brown Jr steps into a role as a combo guard that plays the 1&2 off the bench.

Come draft night, if we are sitting in the 5-10 range, we can use the Atlanta pick+Hachimura and our own pick to move up to try to get one of Suggs/Cunningham.

At that point we can either try and move Westbrook for cap relief, or just let him play out his contract. When he comes off the books, most of that core is in their prime, Bryant, Brown Jr, Avdija, Bonga, Hunter, Collins, Suggs(fingers crossed), Mathews.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1357 » by dlts20 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:19 pm

I don't want to make any trade right now because I do not want our coach or GM. If they aren't going to stick around then get them out now so a new GM or coach can make decisions. It's not fair to let Sheppard make a Beal trade or have a guy like Brooks request Westbrook for Wall when the next coach and GM has to be here to deal with those decisions. Get these dudes out now so you can get a head start on coaching availability and so you can ask other future gms what kind of moves do they envision making if given the job
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1358 » by Ruzious » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:14 pm

NatP4 mentioned Hunter and Collins in another thread, and that got me to thinking - can we get them both? So here goes:

We trade Beal, Rui and Wagner to Atl for Collins, Hunter, Okongwu, and Snell (filler). We get a full front court (while still having Bryant, Bertans, Avdija, and Bonga) and free up TBJ for the backcourt. Trade up to draft Cunningham or Suggs. Atl still has Capella, Gallinari and Bruno up front with Rui, and they can play Bogdan and Reddish at the 3. And they'd have the most explosive backcourt in the East.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1359 » by payitforward » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:42 pm

Ruzious wrote:NatP4 mentioned Hunter and Collins in another thread, and that got me to thinking - can we get them both? So here goes:

We trade Beal, Rui and Wagner to Atl for Collins, Hunter, Okongwu, and Snell (filler). We get a full front court (while still having Bryant, Bertans, Avdija, and Bonga) and free up TBJ for the backcourt. Trade up to draft Cunningham or Suggs. Atl still has Capella, Gallinari and Bruno up front with Rui, and they can play Bogdan and Reddish at the 3. And they'd have the most explosive backcourt in the East.

This is extremely interesting, Ruz!

One premise of this trade, I believe, is that Brad is very likely to opt out -- creating a substantial risk that we lose him for nothing. In the nature of things, this means that we will take less for him now than what we might view as the optimal "talent for talent" trade.

Suppose we think of the trade as Wagner for Okongwu, Rui for Hunter, & Beal for Collins. If Okongwu's foot injury is not a concern, it would seem a fair assessment that he & Hunter are way better overall than Wagner & Rui.

Thus, the trade depends entirely on how we view Collins vs. Beal-with-risk: i.e. how good is Collins, how good is Brad, & how big is the risk? Whatever the answers they have to be looked at in the light of the advantages of Okongwu & Hunter over Wagner & Rui.

IOW, it's irrelevant to simply answer "Beal is better than Collins -- terrible trade!"
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1360 » by NatP4 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:47 pm

payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:NatP4 mentioned Hunter and Collins in another thread, and that got me to thinking - can we get them both? So here goes:

We trade Beal, Rui and Wagner to Atl for Collins, Hunter, Okongwu, and Snell (filler). We get a full front court (while still having Bryant, Bertans, Avdija, and Bonga) and free up TBJ for the backcourt. Trade up to draft Cunningham or Suggs. Atl still has Capella, Gallinari and Bruno up front with Rui, and they can play Bogdan and Reddish at the 3. And they'd have the most explosive backcourt in the East.

This is extremely interesting, Ruz!

One premise of this trade, I believe, is that Brad is very likely to opt out -- creating a substantial risk that we lose him for nothing. In the nature of things, this means that we will take less for him now than what we might view as the optimal "talent for talent" trade.

Suppose we think of the trade as Wagner for Okongwu, Rui for Hunter, & Beal for Collins. If Okongwu's foot injury is not a concern, it would seem a fair assessment that he & Hunter are way better overall than Wagner & Rui.

Thus, the trade depends entirely on how we view Collins vs. Beal-with-risk: i.e. how good is Collins, how good is Brad, & how big is the risk? Whatever the answers they have to be looked at in the light of the advantages of Okongwu & Hunter over Wagner & Rui.

IOW, it's irrelevant to simply answer "Beal is better than Collins -- terrible trade!"


I will also add that Collins is already on the way out of Atlanta, between his suspension, contract dispute, and rumors of butting heads with Trae Young in the locker room, Atlanta is probably looking to move him right now. They know they can’t pay him a max contract at end of the season.

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