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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1401 » by WallToWall » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:59 am

I dont believe they are protected. So it is worth a lot. If by some miracle, Brooklyn got the first pick in the 2021 draft, and Houston had a much lower 1st round pick...well then!
prime1time wrote:
WallToWall wrote:In sending Harden to the Nets, Houston also receives Brooklyn's three unprotected first-round draft picks -- 2022, 2024 and 2026 -- in the deal, plus pick swaps in 2021, 2023, 2025 and 2027.
What then should we get for Beal, given his current production?

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Question pick swaps. How much value do these have?


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1402 » by truwizfan4evr » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:00 am

WallToWall wrote:If I could trade Westbrook for a reasonably good center and a 2nd rnd pick, I would. Thats probably why I'm not a GM even in a fantasy league. Then again, if we could do that, we may have a better team.

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Cavs have so many bigs. Wonder would they trade one of them.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1403 » by doclinkin » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:29 am

nate33 wrote:What we need is a contending team who has most of their future picks available, who wants to add Beal and make a run for a title. Also, that contending team would preferably be reliant on fairly old superstars who figure to decline in the next 3-4 years, rendering distant future picks as possible lotto picks.

Denver... and Philly have future picks to trade, but their talent is based on younger players so they should remain competitive for the next 6 years and those future picks have little value.


In Jokic Denver relies on the most unique and irreplaceable player in the game. They have youth, but one of their rising stars has had a series of injuries. Any team that relies on a single player who has no possible back-up at that position is vulnerable to fall. Problem is they also have good front office management, so even if they fall they will surely make smart decisions to not fall very far.

Philly too relies heavily on Embiid who has proven to be vulnerable to injury. And chemistry questions with SImmons. But again, they have just upgraded their front office, so I wouldn't expect them to be caught in a dumb trade, and will likely manage their assets well going forward.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- PartXXXIX 

Post#1404 » by payitforward » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:32 am

truwizfan4evr wrote:Why didn’t we trade for Allen? Cavaliers literally got him for a bag of chips

Allen??? No Allen on the Cavs. What flavor chips, btw?

If you mean Jarrett Allen & the Nets -- they drafted him in 2017. You remember... when we didn't have a R1 pick? Or a R2 pick? (Sorta like 2016 when we didn't have a R1 or R2 pick either. We did make a R1 pick in 2015. Unlike 2014, when we didn't have a R1 pick but had a R2 pick -- which we traded for cash....

Of course that magic touch of Ernie still has us by the collar -- we don't have our 2021, 2022, or 2023 R2 picks b/c Ernie traded them away. (We do have R2 picks coming to us in '22 & '23 from the Sato deal & the OP trade.)


Ooops! :)
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- PartXXXIX 

Post#1405 » by doclinkin » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:37 am

payitforward wrote:
truwizfan4evr wrote:Why didn’t we trade for Allen? Cavaliers literally got him for a bag of chips

Allen??? No Allen on the Cavs. What flavor chips, btw?

If you mean Jarrett Allen & the Nets -- they drafted him in 2017.


You been asleep old man? Yes Jarrett Allen was part of the massive Harden trade. He is now on the same team as Andre Drummond. The Cavs.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1406 » by gambitx777 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:50 am

With the absolute back long of young guard talent they have. We would have to trade west brook for love or drummond and an asset
truwizfan4evr wrote:
WallToWall wrote:If I could trade Westbrook for a reasonably good center and a 2nd rnd pick, I would. Thats probably why I'm not a GM even in a fantasy league. Then again, if we could do that, we may have a better team.

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Cavs have so many bigs. Wonder would they trade one of them.


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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1407 » by Mizerooskie » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:06 am

nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
WallToWall wrote:In sending Harden to the Nets, Houston also receives Brooklyn's three unprotected first-round draft picks -- 2022, 2024 and 2026 -- in the deal, plus pick swaps in 2021, 2023, 2025 and 2027.
What then should we get for Beal, given his current production?

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I think they also got a Milwaukee FRP. Beal's got more trade value than Harden, so we should get more than that. People are expecting the Brooklyn picks to be very low, but I don't know about that - as they seem to me to be a poorly run organization.

What we need is a contending team who has most of their future picks available, who wants to add Beal and make a run for a title. Also, that contending team would preferably be reliant on fairly old superstars who figure to decline in the next 3-4 years, rendering distant future picks as possible lotto picks.

The problem is, there aren't very many teams that fit that criteria. Brooklyn was one of the last ones.

The Clippers, Lakers, Nets, Heat and Bucks have already traded away their future picks.

Denver, Boston, Utah and Philly have future picks to trade, but their talent is based on younger players so they should remain competitive for the next 6 years and those future picks have little value.

Portland has future picks, but no need for a shooting guard.

Golden State is really the only candidate. Trade Beal for the Minny pick and a bunch of picks and pick swaps in 2025 or later.

New Orleans really stands out to me, particularly if they're willing to part with their pick this year. Given how great a fit Beal would be, maybe they would? Obviously they're very young, but LA is not. Go after some of those future Lakers picks.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1408 » by Ruzious » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:06 pm

According to Wiretap,
Daryl Morey and the Philadelphia 76ers made an offer to the Houston Rockets for James Harden that included Ben Simmons, Matisse Thybulle and some form of draft compensation.

While it had been widely believed that the Rockets sought a young franchise cornerstone in a trade for Harden with Simmons fitting the bill, Houston instead went with a package from the Brooklyn Nets that included four future first round picks and four pick swaps.


Considering Beal is probably in higher demand than Harden, Philly would probably offer at least that much for Beal. That'd be hard to turn down - even though it'd force the Wiz to trade Westbrook. Simmons and Thybulle are 2 of the better defenders in the NBA.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1409 » by Dat2U » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:24 pm

Ruzious wrote:According to Wiretap,
Daryl Morey and the Philadelphia 76ers made an offer to the Houston Rockets for James Harden that included Ben Simmons, Matisse Thybulle and some form of draft compensation.

While it had been widely believed that the Rockets sought a young franchise cornerstone in a trade for Harden with Simmons fitting the bill, Houston instead went with a package from the Brooklyn Nets that included four future first round picks and four pick swaps.


Considering Beal is probably in higher demand than Harden, Philly would probably offer at least that much for Beal. That'd be hard to turn down - even though it'd force the Wiz to trade Westbrook. Simmons and Thybulle are 2 of the better defenders in the NBA.


Simmons & Maxey is who I'd take but yeah, I can't see Westbrook in the mix if we deal for Simmons.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1410 » by pcbothwel » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:24 pm

Ruzious wrote:According to Wiretap,
Daryl Morey and the Philadelphia 76ers made an offer to the Houston Rockets for James Harden that included Ben Simmons, Matisse Thybulle and some form of draft compensation.

While it had been widely believed that the Rockets sought a young franchise cornerstone in a trade for Harden with Simmons fitting the bill, Houston instead went with a package from the Brooklyn Nets that included four future first round picks and four pick swaps.


Considering Beal is probably in higher demand than Harden, Philly would probably offer at least that much for Beal. That'd be hard to turn down - even though it'd force the Wiz to trade Westbrook. Simmons and Thybulle are 2 of the better defenders in the NBA.


Pass. Miami’s package of Herro, Achuiwa, picks in 26/27 is better.

Simmons would be good enough in the short term to keep us out of the top 8-10 picks, but his ceiling is far more limited than people realize. We’d tread water.
I would only want Simmons so I could move him to a 3rd team like Detroit, GSW, Cavs, etc.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1411 » by nate33 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:53 pm

Mizerooskie wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:I think they also got a Milwaukee FRP. Beal's got more trade value than Harden, so we should get more than that. People are expecting the Brooklyn picks to be very low, but I don't know about that - as they seem to me to be a poorly run organization.

What we need is a contending team who has most of their future picks available, who wants to add Beal and make a run for a title. Also, that contending team would preferably be reliant on fairly old superstars who figure to decline in the next 3-4 years, rendering distant future picks as possible lotto picks.

The problem is, there aren't very many teams that fit that criteria. Brooklyn was one of the last ones.

The Clippers, Lakers, Nets, Heat and Bucks have already traded away their future picks.

Denver, Boston, Utah and Philly have future picks to trade, but their talent is based on younger players so they should remain competitive for the next 6 years and those future picks have little value.

Portland has future picks, but no need for a shooting guard.

Golden State is really the only candidate. Trade Beal for the Minny pick and a bunch of picks and pick swaps in 2025 or later.

New Orleans really stands out to me, particularly if they're willing to part with their pick this year. Given how great a fit Beal would be, maybe they would? Obviously they're very young, but LA is not. Go after some of those future Lakers picks.

Why do they stand out? Their pick this year is going to be in the teens or 20's. And those future Laker picks involve a Laker team having Anthony Davis through 2025 (and Lebron until at least 2023). Anthony Davis plus the L.A. name (to attract free agents) is going to be good enough to keep them in contention for the next 5 years.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1412 » by Dat2U » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:56 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
Ruzious wrote:According to Wiretap,
Daryl Morey and the Philadelphia 76ers made an offer to the Houston Rockets for James Harden that included Ben Simmons, Matisse Thybulle and some form of draft compensation.

While it had been widely believed that the Rockets sought a young franchise cornerstone in a trade for Harden with Simmons fitting the bill, Houston instead went with a package from the Brooklyn Nets that included four future first round picks and four pick swaps.


Considering Beal is probably in higher demand than Harden, Philly would probably offer at least that much for Beal. That'd be hard to turn down - even though it'd force the Wiz to trade Westbrook. Simmons and Thybulle are 2 of the better defenders in the NBA.


Pass. Miami’s package of Herro, Achuiwa, picks in 26/27 is better.

Simmons would be good enough in the short term to keep us out of the top 8-10 picks, but his ceiling is far more limited than people realize. We’d tread water.
I would only want Simmons so I could move him to a 3rd team like Detroit, GSW, Cavs, etc.


I'm not as low on Simmons as you are but like Westbrook he needs to be in a 4-out lineup to maximize his effectiveness. I've wondered if his best position is as small ball C.

For Miami, I need Duncan Robinson included with Herro & Achiuwa to really put that package over the top.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1413 » by nate33 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:11 pm

pcbothwel wrote:I would only want Simmons so I could move him to a 3rd team like Detroit, GSW, Cavs, etc.

That's an interesting idea! A 3-way where Beal goes to Philly for Simmons, Maxey and picks, Simmons goes somewhere else for picks, and we just get picks. What about OKC? How many of their future picks would they give up for Simmons? Would they give up their own 2021 1st plus the Houston 2021 1st?

So it would be:
Washington trades: Beal
Washington receives: PHI 2021 1st, OKC 2021 1st, HOU 2021 1st, Tyrese Maxey, Al Horford

Philly trades: Simmons, Maxey, 2021 1st,
Philly receives: Beal

OKC trades: Horford, 2021 OKC 1st, 2021 HOU 1st
OKC receives: Simmons

The Wizards could end up with 3 lotto picks and a late 1st in the upcoming draft. OKC might even throw more into the mix. They have so many future picks.

Notably, this deal also works this summer as none of the pieces being moved are expiring contracts. We could wait and see what those picks are after the lottery drawing.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1414 » by nate33 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:16 pm

Dat2U wrote:For Miami, I need Duncan Robinson included with Herro & Achiuwa to really put that package over the top.

Yeah. With the way Beal is playing, I think Miami could be talked into doing this.

I'd probably try and flip Robinson though. What's the highest pick we could get for him? Maybe send it to New Orleans for a handful of their future late 1sts?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1415 » by TGW » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:18 pm

Simmons is giving the Sixers front office headaches. That means he'd give this FO a damn heart attack.

The Golden State package of Wiseman and 2 FRPs (with Wiggins) is arguably the best package IMO. Get Beal to the WC, and don't trade him within the division. If Miami wants him, they have to pony up every player they have under the age of 24 and multiple picks and pick swaps. Screw them.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1416 » by Dat2U » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:20 pm

nate33 wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:I would only want Simmons so I could move him to a 3rd team like Detroit, GSW, Cavs, etc.

That's an interesting idea! A 3-way where Beal goes to Philly for Simmons, Maxey and picks, Simmons goes somewhere else for picks, and we just get picks. What about OKC? How many of their future picks would they give up for Simmons? Would they give up their own 2021 1st plus the Houston 2021 1st?

So it would be:
Washington trades: Beal
Washington receives: PHI 2021 1st, OKC 2021 1st, HOU 2021 1st, Tyrese Maxey, Al Horford

Philly trades: Simmons, Maxey, 2021 1st,
Philly receives: Beal

OKC trades: Horford, 2021 OKC 1st, 2021 HOU 1st
OKC receives: Simmons

The Wizards could end up with 3 lotto picks and a late 1st in the upcoming draft. OKC might even throw more into the mix. They have so many future picks.

Notably, this deal also works this summer as none of the pieces being moved are expiring contracts. We could wait and see what those picks are after the lottery drawing.


If we're only getting Maxey out of a Beal trade then I need Harden/PG type return when it comes the picks. Only 3 1sts, Maxey & a bad contract for Beal? Where are pick swap(s)?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1417 » by Dat2U » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:22 pm

TGW wrote:Simmons is giving the Sixers front office headaches. That means he'd give this FO a damn heart attack.

Do not trade for Simmons under any circumstances. He has a Kyrie Irving personality.


Your going have to point out the times where Simmons went AWOL on his teammates because I have a tough time remembering when that happened.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1418 » by nate33 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:26 pm

Dat2U wrote:
nate33 wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:I would only want Simmons so I could move him to a 3rd team like Detroit, GSW, Cavs, etc.

That's an interesting idea! A 3-way where Beal goes to Philly for Simmons, Maxey and picks, Simmons goes somewhere else for picks, and we just get picks. What about OKC? How many of their future picks would they give up for Simmons? Would they give up their own 2021 1st plus the Houston 2021 1st?

So it would be:
Washington trades: Beal
Washington receives: PHI 2021 1st, OKC 2021 1st, HOU 2021 1st, Tyrese Maxey, Al Horford

Philly trades: Simmons, Maxey, 2021 1st,
Philly receives: Beal

OKC trades: Horford, 2021 OKC 1st, 2021 HOU 1st
OKC receives: Simmons

The Wizards could end up with 3 lotto picks and a late 1st in the upcoming draft. OKC might even throw more into the mix. They have so many future picks.

Notably, this deal also works this summer as none of the pieces being moved are expiring contracts. We could wait and see what those picks are after the lottery drawing.


If we're only getting Maxey out of a Beal trade then I need Harden/PG type return when it comes the picks. Only 3 1sts, Maxey & a bad contract for Beal? Where are pick swap(s)?

Well, we are getting 2 probable lotto picks in a strong draft. Plus Philly's presumably late pick. But as I said, we could probably convince OKC to throw more into the package. They have an obscene number of future picks.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1419 » by Dat2U » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:30 pm

nate33 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
nate33 wrote:That's an interesting idea! A 3-way where Beal goes to Philly for Simmons, Maxey and picks, Simmons goes somewhere else for picks, and we just get picks. What about OKC? How many of their future picks would they give up for Simmons? Would they give up their own 2021 1st plus the Houston 2021 1st?

So it would be:
Washington trades: Beal
Washington receives: PHI 2021 1st, OKC 2021 1st, HOU 2021 1st, Tyrese Maxey, Al Horford

Philly trades: Simmons, Maxey, 2021 1st,
Philly receives: Beal

OKC trades: Horford, 2021 OKC 1st, 2021 HOU 1st
OKC receives: Simmons

The Wizards could end up with 3 lotto picks and a late 1st in the upcoming draft. OKC might even throw more into the mix. They have so many future picks.

Notably, this deal also works this summer as none of the pieces being moved are expiring contracts. We could wait and see what those picks are after the lottery drawing.


If we're only getting Maxey out of a Beal trade then I need Harden/PG type return when it comes the picks. Only 3 1sts, Maxey & a bad contract for Beal? Where are pick swap(s)?

Well, we are getting 2 probable lotto picks in a strong draft. Plus Philly's presumably late pick. But as I said, we could probably convince OKC to throw more into the package. They have an obscene number of future picks.


2 picks for Simmons is an absolute rip off if the original deal is Simmons, Maxey & a 1st. Whats the impetus to swap Simmons for Horford for a couple of picks?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#1420 » by nate33 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:47 pm

Dat2U wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
If we're only getting Maxey out of a Beal trade then I need Harden/PG type return when it comes the picks. Only 3 1sts, Maxey & a bad contract for Beal? Where are pick swap(s)?

Well, we are getting 2 probable lotto picks in a strong draft. Plus Philly's presumably late pick. But as I said, we could probably convince OKC to throw more into the package. They have an obscene number of future picks.


2 picks for Simmons is an absolute rip off if the original deal is Simmons, Maxey & a 1st. Whats the impetus to swap Simmons for Horford for a couple of picks?


nate33 wrote:as I said, we could probably convince OKC to throw more into the package.

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