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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#501 » by keynote » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:05 am

This deal doesn't make any sense. Westbrook > Wall, but is arguably a worse fit with Beal -- especially now that Beal has blossomed as a playmaker in his own right. If they're trading Beal and blowing things up, then they wouldn't want to include a young player or pick to move on from Wall.

The only way this tracks is if Wall has become so toxic behind the scenes from a culture perspective that Shep feels the need to make a move for non-basketball reasons.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#502 » by doclinkin » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:07 am

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#503 » by WizarDynasty » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:11 am

verbal8 wrote:One interesting scenario with the Wall and Houston could be part of a 3-way deal with the Nets. With Harden end up in Brooklyn, Wall in Houston and Irving in DC.

Not sure I love the deal, but the structure could make a lot of sense to Houston. Directly trading Harden for fair value might be hard, but if there were 2 teams adding incentives it might get better for Houston.

Yeah I like Irving pre-injury but his injury is based on usage. He can only get worse with time. I will still take wall over both Westbrook and Irving. Wall has leadership qualities that Westbrook doesn't have.
He has the passion and love for his team mates on the court. And when he is passing, he isn't looking to get a triple double, he is looking to put his team mates in best position to score.
John is a great leader on the court and Beal outside shooting really compliments wall ability to break down defenses and get in the lane.
If we get Big o==after scotty pippen clone is gone, that would be a nice punch inside --if scotty pippen clone is gone, and big o is gone. then...that is really depressing. Without the best perimeter defender on your team, Jordan goes no where. We grab scotty pippen type player for the future as well as really creating a lockdown perimeter defense. Either way...Wall is going to have Rui and Achi/BigO to anchor the defense, along with Beal. If no one gets a serious injury, we will make the playoffs as a top 4 seed.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#504 » by doclinkin » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:11 am

What I don't understand is why media et al are so quick to jump on this one. Just days ago we dismissed the smoke coming out of the Heat that "trade talks with Washington about landing Bradley Beal have increased". When just days ago Sheppard was talking about how Wall and Beal are acting as ambassadors to recruit free agents to DC.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#505 » by WizarDynasty » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:19 am

doclinkin wrote:What I don't understand is why media et al are so quick to jump on this one. Just days ago we dismissed the smoke coming out of the Heat that "trade talks with Washington about landing Bradley Beal have increased". When just days ago Sheppard was talking about how Wall and Beal are acting as ambassadors to recruit free agents to DC.

I think the truth is, Wall and Beal's time has come. It's time for them to feast.
Rui is turning into a monster offensively, he is legit 2nd option. wall/beal as first option. And then we have alot of chemistry. There is alot of gambling going on behind the scenes and everyone is use to seeing the Wizards are a gutter team. But Leonsis has steady the ship. We got a championship with capitals and Wizards are starting to rise back to the top.
We just have to make the right picks in this draft and not let the mock draft experts and espn pressure us into letting great players slide like K. Leonard/ Vesely/ and even Otto Porter picks.
Espn would love to see us pick another Vesely and give Popovich another K.Leonard to mold. We won't make the same mistake twice. Wizards time is now. Actually we hit a home run last year with rui. Troy Brown has some game and we need some juice off the bench. We are headed in right direction but now is not the time to transfer our years of suffering just to provide easy currency to another team who is now on their downward slope after living the glamour life. the guys who had the glamour life, now they have no high draft picks and want to swindle us. We paid our debt and now its time for the Wizard fans to experience winning again. While they live the glamour life we suffer but got great value with wall beal, rui, ect. 9th pick this year is going to be awesome. Let's all enjoy th e moment of seeing Wall/ Beal legendary back court in action again and retool with an awesome forward in RUi...and high character guys like Thomas bryant, Troy Brown, and the rest of the guys that Beal has helped to bring in.
Let's go Wiz!!
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#506 » by doclinkin » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:22 am

Yeah further reading sounds like it is entirely out of Houston. Like they called and said "Hey what else would you give us in a Wall for Westbrook swap?" and Tommy said "No thanks." It sounds like Houston is calling everybody and asking for the moon.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#507 » by payitforward » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:36 am

doclinkin wrote:
Stone was one of 500 attorneys at Dewey Ballantine LLP, which is a major corporate law firm headquartered in New York, and his experience in the courtroom prepared him for his newly promoted role as the Houston Rockets GM.

Stone was essentially described by MacMahon as a master negotiator, which seems fitting based on his legal background. This is also a trait that would seem to come in handy for a general manager, as it would certainly be put to use when negotiating trades and brokering deals across the league.

Yeah that seems like a corporate lawyer trying to create leverage where he has none.

Meh... truth is we don't even know he had anything to do with it.

OTOH, as a NY corporate lawyer he's still a d*ck.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#508 » by prime1time » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:52 am

Wizards just displayed how they still lack professionalism. We can blame the Rockets all you want but John Wall deserved better. Period. Sad day for DC sports.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#509 » by doclinkin » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:59 am

prime1time wrote:Wizards just displayed how they still lack professionalism. We can blame the Rockets all you want but John Wall deserved better. Period. Sad day for DC sports.



How. You are displaying your willingness to jump to judgment without facts. We have seen one tweet confirming only there was a conversation between the two teams. Conversations happen all the time. Tommy picks up the phone to listen. That says nothing about the context. This 'info' is not from the Wizards side, it can only come from Houston, since it only serves them. The rest is reckless speculation -- except that on its face it is out of character with everything that Tommy has said up to now. Seems pretty unlikely. When do we ever hear about the Wizards in any of these leaks? Whereas Houston has been all over the news cycle recently, and not in a good way. A team that was riding high for the past few years under Morey is now tumbling like a detonated building and trying to get any sort of value from their assets, with a new GM at the helm. The Wizards and John Wall are a lightning rod for other peoples bad ideas and speculation, including apparently our own fans. Don't rush to be the quickest to be wrong.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#510 » by WizarDynasty » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:00 am

prime1time wrote:Wizards just displayed how they still lack professionalism. We can blame the Rockets all you want but John Wall deserved better. Period. Sad day for DC sports.

I disagree. Westbrook is all nba player. They are different players. Wall has better intangibles that can't be measured by stats.
I don't think Wall would have a problem being in the same breath as Westbrook.

Westbrook like Wall, has had injuries but has still been able to reach high playing performance, although it is low efficient, he is an all star. Westbrook needs to be combined with a player who shoots high volume and high efficiency like AD, or old school shaq.
Westbrook will never reach promise land until he finds a dominant high volume big high efficiency big. A shaq, or hakeem in his prime. Westbrook low efficiency will not get you into the playoffs playoff allstar which is something that Wall is capable due to making his team mates better than what they are without him.

Wall unselfish style increaes the efficiency of his entire teams field goal percentage which lead to deep playoffs.

Of course houston would love to have wall, passing, and making everyone in houston a better player.
Wall is like Chris Paul, but bigger, with worse 3 point shot.

WEstbrook value is in volume stats which don't help in the playoffs against elite teams who shoot high efficiency and heavily disciplined.
, while Wall's value is in team chemistry. which works great against another highly disciplined team. Team chemistry can take you alot farther in the playoffs than low percentage volume stats.
Wall shouldn't be considered untouchable, if denver offered Jokic for wall, i would take in it heart beat. Westbrook is a respected Icon in nba and even more well known that wall is.
Wall has something to prove. Wall has star that he has chemistry with in the past. Westbrook talents are completely neutralized with Harden. You have two high volume low percentage scorers that are not elite defenders, that can drop the other's team field goal percentage below their own.
Wall assist to beal elevate beal to a higher percentage because beal is even more deadly from catch and shoot than either harden or westbrook.
Not a sad day. It's a sad day if wall or beal get injured for the season.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#511 » by badinage » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:02 am

Enh. I don’t know. Danny Ainge does this kinda thing every four months. If anything, it’s a sign of professionalism — a signal the organization is willing to make tough (hopefully smart, forward-thinking) decisions, as opposed to the soft loyalty of the Grunfeld years.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#512 » by TGW » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:12 am

badinage wrote:Enh. I don’t know. Danny Ainge does this kinda thing every four months. If anything, it’s a sign of professionalism — a signal the organization is willing to make tough (hopefully smart, forward-thinking) decisions, as opposed to the soft loyalty of the Grunfeld years.


This.

The whole loyalty thing is so mom and pop. I personally don't care about the feelings of Beal, Wall, or anyone else on the roster. Stop attaching the identity of the team to hand-picked players. Stop soliciting feedback from active players on front office decisions. Stop the buttkissing. When Wall and Beal actually do more in their careers than win a couple of playoff games, then you can roll out the red carpet. They are nowhere close to being those type of players, so stop the nonsense.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#513 » by Meliorus » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:18 am

Westbrook is 32 and only getting worse, his advanced stats have been steadily declining, he was borderline unplayable in the bubble.

I’d rather just roll my dice with Wall, he’s just a less intrusive player too who fits better with Beal. It’s silly to think every point guard ages like Chris Paul.

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Troy Haliburton is making a lot of tweets saying Houston leaked this on purpose to put more pressure to trade him. They want to force Tommy’s hand. Tommy was only stealth shopping Wall and didn’t want this leaked.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#514 » by prime1time » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:24 am

doclinkin wrote:
prime1time wrote:Wizards just displayed how they still lack professionalism. We can blame the Rockets all you want but John Wall deserved better. Period. Sad day for DC sports.



How. You are displaying your willingness to jump to judgment without facts. We have seen one tweet confirming only there was a conversation between the two teams. Conversations happen all the time. Tommy picks up the phone to listen. That says nothing about the context. This 'info' is not from the Wizards side, it can only come from Houston, since it only serves them. The rest is reckless speculation -- except that on its face it is out of character with everything that Tommy has said up to now. Seems pretty unlikely. When do we ever hear about the Wizards in any of these leaks? Whereas Houston has been all over the news cycle recently, and not in a good way. A team that was riding high for the past few years under Morey is now tumbling like a detonated building and trying to get any sort of value from their assets, with a new GM at the helm. The Wizards and John Wall are a lightning rod for other peoples bad ideas and speculation, including apparently our own fans. Don't rush to be the quickest to be wrong.

If the Rockets didn't want extra compensation Wall would be gone. The Wizards have said for 2 years we are going to unite Beall and Wall. Now, after Wall has done everything they asked of him in terms of rehab they completely pull the rug from under him. If I was shocked by the reports, I obsessively search everything Wizards, then I know Wall was to. If they were willing to kick tires on Wall just come out, be a man, have some integrity and tell people. Don't set up the players and the fan base for one thing and then try to do another thing.
https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/report-wizards-discussing-john-wall-russell-westbrook-trade-rockets
https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/how-john-wall-russell-westbrook-trade-would-change-wizards-draft-strategy

The rumor is true.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#515 » by WizarDynasty » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:27 am

TGW wrote:
badinage wrote:Enh. I don’t know. Danny Ainge does this kinda thing every four months. If anything, it’s a sign of professionalism — a signal the organization is willing to make tough (hopefully smart, forward-thinking) decisions, as opposed to the soft loyalty of the Grunfeld years.


This.

The whole loyalty thing is so mom and pop. I personally don't care about the feelings of Beal, Wall, or anyone else on the roster. Stop attaching the identity of the team to hand-picked players. Stop soliciting feedback from active players on front office decisions. Stop the buttkissing. When Wall and Beal actually do more in their careers than win a couple of playoff games, then you can roll out the red carpet. They are nowhere close to being those type of players, so stop the nonsense.

Leonsis runs a tight ship. Shepherd has been on the job for a year, less than wall and beal.

I am pretty sure beal and wall where on that phone call, when the houston call soliciting westbrook. wall and beal are the IQ executives of the wizards front office.
The front office is a reflection of Leonsis and Leonsis is about Loyalty. Wall and Beal are his right hand men even higher ranked than Shepherd. Some may hate that is the culture of Washington, but when Leonsis preached a new culture, he wasn't playing.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#516 » by prime1time » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:28 am

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#517 » by doclinkin » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:34 am

prime1time wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
prime1time wrote:Wizards just displayed how they still lack professionalism. We can blame the Rockets all you want but John Wall deserved better. Period. Sad day for DC sports.



How. You are displaying your willingness to jump to judgment without facts. We have seen one tweet confirming only there was a conversation between the two teams. Conversations happen all the time. Tommy picks up the phone to listen. That says nothing about the context. This 'info' is not from the Wizards side, it can only come from Houston, since it only serves them. The rest is reckless speculation -- except that on its face it is out of character with everything that Tommy has said up to now. Seems pretty unlikely. When do we ever hear about the Wizards in any of these leaks? Whereas Houston has been all over the news cycle recently, and not in a good way. A team that was riding high for the past few years under Morey is now tumbling like a detonated building and trying to get any sort of value from their assets, with a new GM at the helm. The Wizards and John Wall are a lightning rod for other peoples bad ideas and speculation, including apparently our own fans. Don't rush to be the quickest to be wrong.

If the Rockets didn't want extra compensation Wall would be gone. The Wizards have said for 2 years we are going to unite Beall and Wall. Now, after Wall has done everything they asked of him in terms of rehab they completely pull the rug from under him. If I was shocked by the reports, I obsessively search everything Wizards, then I know Wall was to. If they were willing to kick tires on Wall just come out, be a man, have some integrity and tell people. Don't set up the players and the fan base for one thing and then try to do another thing.
https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/report-wizards-discussing-john-wall-russell-westbrook-trade-rockets
https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/how-john-wall-russell-westbrook-trade-would-change-wizards-draft-strategy

The rumor is true.



Nope that is the media equivalent of a re-tweet. That's all. There is no depth behind it except The Athletic report, and Shams followed up on by calling to confirm that the two teams have talked. That's it. Nowhere does it say who called whom. But all of the smoke seems to be coming from Houston. It will go nowhere. Check Tommy tomorrow before the draft. Houston has made it clear they are desperate to recoup draft picks after giving up a ton in the Westbrook trade, they are trying to buy their way into the first round, second round, anything. This, whatever this is, is very much not Sheppard's style. And that goes way back to when Kevin Broom (WizardsKev/SecretWeapon) had media credentials.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#518 » by doclinkin » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:36 am

prime1time wrote:https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/video/gm-tommy-sheppard-says-john-walls-return-no-1-pick-wizards

This is crazy. He just made this video yesterday. We are a joke.


Nope. Fans who believe Houston are the joke. Suddenly you are willing to run with a rumor, but when it is nonsense coming out of Miami about Beal it is dismissed. Relax. Didn't happen. It's understandable: Wizards fans have been stung so many times they are fully ready to run like Chicken Little at the drop of a tweet.

Believe Tommy's actual words and actions, or believe one rumored tweet that only serves another team's interest. Your choice.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#519 » by prime1time » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:37 am

TGW wrote:
badinage wrote:Enh. I don’t know. Danny Ainge does this kinda thing every four months. If anything, it’s a sign of professionalism — a signal the organization is willing to make tough (hopefully smart, forward-thinking) decisions, as opposed to the soft loyalty of the Grunfeld years.


This.

The whole loyalty thing is so mom and pop. I personally don't care about the feelings of Beal, Wall, or anyone else on the roster. Stop attaching the identity of the team to hand-picked players. Stop soliciting feedback from active players on front office decisions. Stop the buttkissing. When Wall and Beal actually do more in their careers than win a couple of playoff games, then you can roll out the red carpet. They are nowhere close to being those type of players, so stop the nonsense.

You can say whatever you want, but how you treat your franchise players impacts how players see you, how the public perceives youa and how the fans feel about the team. IF you are going to do something shady, you better win games. Or else their will be a revolt.Real-life isn't NBA 2k. Organizations that lack integrity will get penalized for it one way or another. And yes, Ainge does do stuff like this. But he's also upfront with it. The issue isn't that Wall was shopped. It was the way in which it was done. Duplicitously behind his back, while telling him that the plan is to reunite him and Beal to his face. Wizards thought they'd be able to get away with it then the Rockets leaked it. I'm willing to bet that the first time Wall found he was traded was when he saw Sham's tweet.You call it "Mom and Pop." I call it acting with class, respect and integrity.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#520 » by prime1time » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:39 am

doclinkin wrote:
prime1time wrote:https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/video/gm-tommy-sheppard-says-john-walls-return-no-1-pick-wizards

This is crazy. He just made this video yesterday. We are a joke.


Nope. Fans who believe Houston are the joke. Suddenly you are willing to run with a rumor, but when it is nonsense coming out of Miami about Beal it is dismissed. Relax. Didn't happen. It's understandable: Wizards fans have been stung so many times they are fully ready to run like Chicken Little at the drop of a tweet.

Believe Tommy's actual words and actions, or believe one rumored tweet that only serves another team's interest. Your choice.

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