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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#521 » by doclinkin » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:43 am

prime1time wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=20


Dude I'm reading the same things you are. They don't say what you think they are saying. That one originated in an article where a writer was speculating about the reasons why the team MIGHT have soured on Wall. And to support it the reporter said maybe because Wall is unhappy, and looked for evidence. Then that speculation of the reporter becomes click bait and rumbles down the echo chamber. But all of the team PR strategy and coaching and everything SHeppard has said and money they have invested in John's rehab and involving him in coaching conversations etc, has all been pointed towards one direction. SO. Qui benefis. Who benefits from this supposed 'leak'. Use some critical thought. That's the thing that has always bugged me about this market. SO ready to jump ship.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#522 » by Dat2U » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:39 am

I agree with doc. I think Houston sees Wall viable alternative to Westbrook. Harden & Wall have a great friendship and have worked out together. The on-court fit would seem to be much better than it was with Westbrook who really looked bad over the 2nd half of last season and the playoffs.

Houston is all in on trying to save their relationship with Harden. Muddying the waters in DC maybe gets Wall & Harden talking and in turn Wall pressures the Wizards to make a move.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#523 » by WizarDynasty » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:28 pm

prime1time wrote:
doclinkin wrote:
prime1time wrote:Wizards just displayed how they still lack professionalism. We can blame the Rockets all you want but John Wall deserved better. Period. Sad day for DC sports.



How. You are displaying your willingness to jump to judgment without facts. We have seen one tweet confirming only there was a conversation between the two teams. Conversations happen all the time. Tommy picks up the phone to listen. That says nothing about the context. This 'info' is not from the Wizards side, it can only come from Houston, since it only serves them. The rest is reckless speculation -- except that on its face it is out of character with everything that Tommy has said up to now. Seems pretty unlikely. When do we ever hear about the Wizards in any of these leaks? Whereas Houston has been all over the news cycle recently, and not in a good way. A team that was riding high for the past few years under Morey is now tumbling like a detonated building and trying to get any sort of value from their assets, with a new GM at the helm. The Wizards and John Wall are a lightning rod for other peoples bad ideas and speculation, including apparently our own fans. Don't rush to be the quickest to be wrong.

If the Rockets didn't want extra compensation Wall would be gone. The Wizards have said for 2 years we are going to unite Beall and Wall. Now, after Wall has done everything they asked of him in terms of rehab they completely pull the rug from under him. If I was shocked by the reports, I obsessively search everything Wizards, then I know Wall was to. If they were willing to kick tires on Wall just come out, be a man, have some integrity and tell people. Don't set up the players and the fan base for one thing and then try to do another thing.
https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/report-wizards-discussing-john-wall-russell-westbrook-trade-rockets
https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/how-john-wall-russell-westbrook-trade-would-change-wizards-draft-strategy

The rumor is true.

NO I don't think Wall would be gone. Washington should listen to all offers. Now if Houston were throwing us future first rounders in addition to this years draft pick, maybe wall is gone--but no player is worth 3 lottery picks.--I think Wall would be honored if a team wants to trade their entire bank account just to have him. If someone is giving me the number draft pick for 3 years in a row and their are crappy team, i would be a fool not to listen to the offerr
Shepherd is not running things, Wall and Beal are the executives in DC. Leonsis is the top dawg. don't get confused things confused. At the end of the day, all decisions are filtered through Wall and Beal, and then the top man Leonsis approves or disapproved. Shepherd is like the PR guy, or secretary, he deals with other lead men, but he is not the power engine behind the scenes. Beal and Wall are the power engines in DC. Houston doesn't have loyal icons and thus they can only envy what exists in DC
Westbrook has never lead his team to the finals on his own back, so why assume that his volume stat padding style is more valuable than Wall's team chemistry and high discipline style.
You pick up the phone and you listen to an offer. If they are giving up multiple future first round picks, you have to at least listen. They would to throw out the narrative that Westbrook is more valuable than Wall, it's just a cheap lawyer tactic. But Houston should have been offering us future first round picks at bare minimum. Wall hasn't reached his full potential, Westbrook has.
We have yet to see Wall a full season with two other elite players on his team. We are about to see it with Beal and Rui this season.

Of course John should care if the GM isn't showing him attention in the same manner has bradley beal. But at the same time, Wall is the engine that makes Bradley Beal better. So of course he would be surprised. But I think John knows that without Bradley Beal, his life would be alot more difficult. We have evidence that Beal is not good enough by himself to carry a bunch of nobody's on his back deep into the playoffs like Michael Jordan did.. But Beal and Wall have tasted Eastern Conference championship together and they remember that taste. Now they have another player who can shoulder alot of the scoring load each night with a high efficiency and they will be able to get a lock down perimeter and elite rebounder to make their defensive assignments each night ...100 times easier and actually help cover their weaknesses with Achiuwa. I am pretty sure Wall and Beal are "surprised" and excited at the fortunate situation they find themselves in 2020. All they need to concern themselves with now is health and practicing long lasting mechanics for their joints to extend their playing careers. Beal and Wall are icons in DC. Westbrook and Harden don't know the feeling of being attached to a logo. When you see the wizard logo, you immediately think of only 2 people. Wall and beal ok... and maybe arenas. That's it.
I don't think of Wes Unseld, Antwan Jamison, Bernard King, Caron Butler, elvin hayes, phil chenier. or Michael Jordan.
The new culture of Leonsis, that star and ball with the finger---That is logo is owned by Wall and Beal. Even if Wall is limping down the court, and Beal is shooting 25 percent from three, they are Leonsis new culture Wizards.
They are now some pieces of coin to flip. Even if they decide to leave after their contract it is up, wherever they go, they will always be seen as Wizards and represent our organization. All other organizations will see Beal as Wizard.
Wall and Beal are not like Lebron who has to live in Michael Jordan's shadow. The rules for lebron don't apply to the rules of everyone else.
AD left Pelicans because he has never won in the 2nd round series. Wall and Beal have fought together and beaten teams in the playoffs. They are battle tested. Let's Go Wiz. In Leonsis we Trust!!
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#524 » by prime1time » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:57 pm

I guess time will tell. It’ll be interesting to see what Wall says.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#525 » by Ruzious » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:17 pm

Meliorus wrote:Westbrook is 32 and only getting worse, his advanced stats have been steadily declining, he was borderline unplayable in the bubble.

I’d rather just roll my dice with Wall, he’s just a less intrusive player too who fits better with Beal. It’s silly to think every point guard ages like Chris Paul.

Read on Twitter
?s=21

Troy Haliburton is making a lot of tweets saying Houston leaked this on purpose to put more pressure to trade him. They want to force Tommy’s hand. Tommy was only stealth shopping Wall and didn’t want this leaked.

Exactly. At worst... Tommy was stealth shopping - which is what EVERY GM does. And if they don't, they're lazy and not doing their job.

And btw, even the rumor says talks gained no traction.

Talks gaining no traction is what happens when there's no deal being made.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#526 » by queridiculo » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:29 pm

prime1time wrote:I guess time will tell. It’ll be interesting to see what Wall says.


Wall just needs to shut up and do his talking on the court.

That's the kind of growth I expect from him at this point of his career.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#527 » by Meliorus » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:49 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Meliorus wrote:Westbrook is 32 and only getting worse, his advanced stats have been steadily declining, he was borderline unplayable in the bubble.

I’d rather just roll my dice with Wall, he’s just a less intrusive player too who fits better with Beal. It’s silly to think every point guard ages like Chris Paul.

Read on Twitter
?s=21

Troy Haliburton is making a lot of tweets saying Houston leaked this on purpose to put more pressure to trade him. They want to force Tommy’s hand. Tommy was only stealth shopping Wall and didn’t want this leaked.

Exactly. At worst... Tommy was stealth shopping - which is what EVERY GM does. And if they don't, they're lazy and not doing their job.

And btw, even the rumor says talks gained no traction.

Talks gaining no traction is what happens when there's no deal being made.


It kinda felt like Shams was trying to break something that wasn't there. Forced story tbh.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#528 » by Ruzious » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:54 pm

Meliorus wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
Meliorus wrote:Westbrook is 32 and only getting worse, his advanced stats have been steadily declining, he was borderline unplayable in the bubble.

I’d rather just roll my dice with Wall, he’s just a less intrusive player too who fits better with Beal. It’s silly to think every point guard ages like Chris Paul.

Read on Twitter
?s=21

Troy Haliburton is making a lot of tweets saying Houston leaked this on purpose to put more pressure to trade him. They want to force Tommy’s hand. Tommy was only stealth shopping Wall and didn’t want this leaked.

Exactly. At worst... Tommy was stealth shopping - which is what EVERY GM does. And if they don't, they're lazy and not doing their job.

And btw, even the rumor says talks gained no traction.

Talks gaining no traction is what happens when there's no deal being made.


It kinda felt like Shams was trying to break something that wasn't there. Forced story tbh.

Shams was probably fed that by a source that was counting on them running with it.

Interesting that the Knicks are maneuvering in the draft this morning. Maybe they're doing the maneuvering to get picks that Houston wants - for Westbrook (Quick, someone spread that rumor!). I think there's a much better chance that Westbrook ends up in NY than Washington.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#529 » by WizarDynasty » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:30 pm

Wall hasn't played in over a year, Houston must be desperate if they are willing to trade for a player that hasn't even touched the court in a year. As I stated, Wall has more playoff value than Westbrook point blank. They both have injury history and Westbrook has far more wear and tear on his body than Wall. Wall may have injury but Wall's Vision and being able to see into the future before things happen and making his team mates better is his true super power.
He will keep that even has his physical skills decline. Westbrook does not have that super power. When his body goes, so does his super power.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#530 » by Gig18 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:12 pm

As a fan I was shocked. John's our dude. We've all been rooting for his return. But I understand the front office looking at it from this perspective --- John has always played with incredible disregard for his body. He ends up on the floor (going to the hoop) more than any Wizard I can remember. He's always a candidate to get hurt again. The greatest ability is availability. Will be interesting to see how Wall handles this now that it's out there.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#531 » by WizarDynasty » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:42 pm

Gig18 wrote:As a fan I was shocked. John's our dude. We've all been rooting for his return. But I understand the front office looking at it from this perspective --- John has always played with incredible disregard for his body. He ends up on the floor (going to the hoop) more than any Wizard I can remember. He's always a candidate to get hurt again. The greatest ability is availability. Will be interesting to see how Wall handles this now that it's out there.


Going to the ground is not always bad, alot of times it safier to go the ground that to have your knee absorb all of the landing force. You knee begins to stiffen due to cartilage wear. John needed to practice taking off so that he lands without putting tremendous pressure on his knees and ankles. He doesn't land from his offensive moves with deep hip bends. That's because he does practice taking off and executing an offense move that allows him to land safely. That is where the disregard comes from. But if you watch film, most of old school nba games with michael jordan show defensive team bumping him to save him from landing awkwardly. Everyone, even the defense loved mike and wanted him to preserve his body. They often times absorb the impact that would have went straighto Mike's knees on landings. You see that alot.
But that is the issue with wall. He doesn't practice landing safely with minimum damage to his joints with deep hip bends. He has the warrior derrick rose mentality but hopefully he learns from derrick rose and even chris paul poor learning mechanics and mimic more of James Harden and Westbrook, and daminan lillard landing mechanics. NO on in Wiz organization actually even understand importance of landing mechanics so he can't expect them to step in and save him. We on the this board are his only hope. :wink:
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#532 » by wall_glizzy » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:21 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:Going to the ground is not always bad, alot of times it safier to go the ground that to have your knee absorb all of the landing force. You knee begins to stiffen due to cartilage wear. John needed to practice taking off so that he lands without putting tremendous pressure on his knees and ankles.


It's true - this is something Curry picked up, even/especially on threes, after his ankle issues got critical, and something that Derrick Rose... didn't.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#533 » by Dat2U » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:17 pm

Take it with a grain of salt a rumor on twitter said the Wizards offered Wall to Houston for Westbrook straight up and Houston responded by asking for the 9 and other picks. It ended there.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#534 » by prime1time » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:38 pm

https://www.radio.com/thefandc/sports/wizards/whats-driving-john-wall-russell-westbrook-trade-rumors
Let's talk about John's gang signs. He's been doing it his whole career. In fact, after the whole "incident" I was watching one of his pick-up games on youtube and he did it again. I find it laughable that the Wizards are now trying to pull a "Redskins" and justify/explain the decision to trade him after the fact. I listened to Tommy and Zach Lowe's podcast they said the organization had moved on. I can only presume that they told Wall the same thing to his face. For that now to be used as an attempt to justify the trade is not only laughable but also dishonest and lacking integrity. I think Wall's going to return as a shell of the player he use to be. They know it and now they were trying to pull a fast one by trading him.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#535 » by Ruzious » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:53 pm

prime1time wrote:https://www.radio.com/thefandc/sports/wizards/whats-driving-john-wall-russell-westbrook-trade-rumors
Let's talk about John's gang signs. He's been doing it his whole career. In fact, after the whole "incident" I was watching one of his pick-up games on youtube and he did it again. I find it laughable that the Wizards are now trying to pull a "Redskins" and justify/explain the decision to trade him after the fact. I listened to Tommy and Zach Lowe's podcast they said the organization had moved on. I can only presume that they told Wall the same thing to his face. For that now to be used as an attempt to justify the trade is not only laughable but also dishonest and lacking integrity. I think Wall's going to return as a shell of the player he use to be. They know it and now they were trying to pull a fast one by trading him.

Have the Wizards said even 1 thing about this?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#536 » by doclinkin » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:00 pm

Tommy:

“Russell’s a perennial All-Star and last year was a third-team All-NBA player,” Sheppard said, via Mike Deprisco of NBC Sports. “So I think over the years he’s shown he’s an elite player in the NBA. For me, we’re trying to figure out ways to beat teams with guys like that, and I think we have that in Bradley and John. They’ve shown when they’re healthy going at guys that they’re a dynamic duo and one of the best backcourts in the NBA.”


Sheppard tried to further play down the rumor by expressing how these types of rumblings have become commonplace at this point:

“You mentioned Russell, there’s several players out there this time of year that their names always pop up and I’m sure it bothers them,” he said. “But I’m sure they’re used to it and life goes on.”
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#537 » by WizarDynasty » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:03 pm

Ruzious wrote:
prime1time wrote:https://www.radio.com/thefandc/sports/wizards/whats-driving-john-wall-russell-westbrook-trade-rumors
Let's talk about John's gang signs. He's been doing it his whole career. In fact, after the whole "incident" I was watching one of his pick-up games on youtube and he did it again. I find it laughable that the Wizards are now trying to pull a "Redskins" and justify/explain the decision to trade him after the fact. I listened to Tommy and Zach Lowe's podcast they said the organization had moved on. I can only presume that they told Wall the same thing to his face. For that now to be used as an attempt to justify the trade is not only laughable but also dishonest and lacking integrity. I think Wall's going to return as a shell of the player he use to be. They know it and now they were trying to pull a fast one by trading him.

Have the Wizards said even 1 thing about this?


So is Wall suppose to pretend that he didn't grow up in gang environment. For all we know, his entire family lived in a gang affiliated neighborhood. Since Wall has been a Wizard, has he committed any felonies?
Are the wizards aware of any gang illegal gang activities that Wall is apart of?
I mean wall is multi millionaire that lives in Potomac.
I don't think you can harshly judge Wall unless he is doing something illegal. For all we know, those gang ties saved his life growing up and allowed him to even become a pro basketball player. I always think about "HE got game with Denzel Washington". The gang members were the ones that saved Ray Allen from getting into trouble.
So again, do we have evidence that Wall is doing something illegal? Are we telling Wall that he is suppose to forget the people that helped him to get to where he is?
Are we worried that Wall is being extorted?
I think those things should be discussed before you begin to act as though you are on the moral high ground when dealing with an Icon of DC basketball.
And again Russel is and all nba player. Wall is third team all nba player. I pretty sure Wall likes the idea of being mention in the same sentence with an all nba guard. is Russell a good fit for us, no because he is shooting first pass second guard, and we have our shooting guard in bradley beal. We also don't have a shaq player that can balance out Russell low volume shooting percentage. Russell needs a elite bigman for his style to translate into championships. russell is kobe and he needs his paul gasol or shaquille oneal. He won't find that guy yet in DC.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#538 » by prime1time » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:15 pm

Ruzious wrote:
prime1time wrote:https://www.radio.com/thefandc/sports/wizards/whats-driving-john-wall-russell-westbrook-trade-rumors
Let's talk about John's gang signs. He's been doing it his whole career. In fact, after the whole "incident" I was watching one of his pick-up games on youtube and he did it again. I find it laughable that the Wizards are now trying to pull a "Redskins" and justify/explain the decision to trade him after the fact. I listened to Tommy and Zach Lowe's podcast they said the organization had moved on. I can only presume that they told Wall the same thing to his face. For that now to be used as an attempt to justify the trade is not only laughable but also dishonest and lacking integrity. I think Wall's going to return as a shell of the player he use to be. They know it and now they were trying to pull a fast one by trading him.

Have the Wizards said even 1 thing about this?

"Miller strongly suspects a September incident — in which Wall was caught on camera throwing up gang signs at a party in New York City, for which he later issued a public apology — is a leading factor in these newfound trade talks."

From the article I posted.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#539 » by doclinkin » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:22 pm

Right. Speculation by one reporter, which was picked up by other people. Chris Miller is a bit of a bighead who tends to inject himself into stories.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#540 » by doclinkin » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:25 pm

The only semi-negative thing Sheppard has said about Wall is that he tends to go hard, even in pick up games and practice, and so he has talked with him about maybe not driving into contact so much on a re-built leg. But he said it in that jokey folksy friendly way that he says everything. ANd he also said the development of Johns 3 pt shot will help give him options.

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