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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#541 » by prime1time » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:33 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
prime1time wrote:https://www.radio.com/thefandc/sports/wizards/whats-driving-john-wall-russell-westbrook-trade-rumors
Let's talk about John's gang signs. He's been doing it his whole career. In fact, after the whole "incident" I was watching one of his pick-up games on youtube and he did it again. I find it laughable that the Wizards are now trying to pull a "Redskins" and justify/explain the decision to trade him after the fact. I listened to Tommy and Zach Lowe's podcast they said the organization had moved on. I can only presume that they told Wall the same thing to his face. For that now to be used as an attempt to justify the trade is not only laughable but also dishonest and lacking integrity. I think Wall's going to return as a shell of the player he use to be. They know it and now they were trying to pull a fast one by trading him.

Have the Wizards said even 1 thing about this?


So is Wall suppose to pretend that he didn't grow up in gang environment. For all we know, his entire family lived in a gang affiliated neighborhood. Since Wall has been a Wizard, has he committed any felonies?
Are the wizards aware of any gang illegal gang activities that Wall is apart of?
I mean wall is multi millionaire that lives in Potomac.
I don't think you can harshly judge Wall unless he is doing something illegal. For all we know, those gang ties saved his life growing up and allowed him to even become a pro basketball player. I always think about "HE got game with Denzel Washington". The gang members were the ones that saved Ray Allen from getting into trouble.
So again, do we have evidence that Wall is doing something illegal? Are we telling Wall that he is suppose to forget the people that helped him to get to where he is?
Are we worried that Wall is being extorted?
I think those things should be discussed before you begin to act as though you are on the moral high ground when dealing with an Icon of DC basketball.
And again Russel is and all nba player. Wall is third team all nba player. I pretty sure Wall likes the idea of being mention in the same sentence with an all nba guard. is Russell a good fit for us, no because he is shooting first pass second guard, and we have our shooting guard in bradley beal. We also don't have a shaq player that can balance out Russell low volume shooting percentage. Russell needs a elite bigman for his style to translate into championships. russell is kobe and he needs his paul gasol or shaquille oneal. He won't find that guy yet in DC.

I don't condemn Wall for putting up Gang signs. He's been doing it for his whole career. But the reality is that in 2020, everything is a rosharch test. And being the face of a NBA Franchise is a position that makes it hard to flash Gang signs. Not because you are a bad person, because it now gives the impression that the team endorses it also. For Wall a the Gang signs might represent dear friends that he grew up with. At the same time, the fact is that to many people gang's represent a source of terror and fear. There are families that no longer have loved one's because of gang violence. To these individuals, your argument is going to fall on def ears. Part of being an adult in 2020 is adjusting to the fact that other people might not perceive things the same way you do.

All my post was about was the hypocrisy of using Wall's gang signs as a potential justification to trade Wall because: 1) He's been doing it his whole career and 2) they already discussed it and moved forward. It seems to me they are groping for reasons to explain why out of the blew they tried to trade him away. It can't be because he's now a shell of who he used to be, because that would make them liars so this is what we are left with.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#542 » by WizarDynasty » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:37 pm

prime1time wrote:
WizarDynasty wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Have the Wizards said even 1 thing about this?


So is Wall suppose to pretend that he didn't grow up in gang environment. For all we know, his entire family lived in a gang affiliated neighborhood. Since Wall has been a Wizard, has he committed any felonies?
Are the wizards aware of any gang illegal gang activities that Wall is apart of?
I mean wall is multi millionaire that lives in Potomac.
I don't think you can harshly judge Wall unless he is doing something illegal. For all we know, those gang ties saved his life growing up and allowed him to even become a pro basketball player. I always think about "HE got game with Denzel Washington". The gang members were the ones that saved Ray Allen from getting into trouble.
So again, do we have evidence that Wall is doing something illegal? Are we telling Wall that he is suppose to forget the people that helped him to get to where he is?
Are we worried that Wall is being extorted?
I think those things should be discussed before you begin to act as though you are on the moral high ground when dealing with an Icon of DC basketball.
And again Russel is and all nba player. Wall is third team all nba player. I pretty sure Wall likes the idea of being mention in the same sentence with an all nba guard. is Russell a good fit for us, no because he is shooting first pass second guard, and we have our shooting guard in bradley beal. We also don't have a shaq player that can balance out Russell low volume shooting percentage. Russell needs a elite bigman for his style to translate into championships. russell is kobe and he needs his paul gasol or shaquille oneal. He won't find that guy yet in DC.

I don't condemn Wall for putting up Gang signs. He's been doing it for his whole career. But the reality is that in 2020, everything is a rosharch test. And being the face of a NBA Franchise is a position that makes it hard to flash Gang signs. Not because you are a bad person, because it now gives the impression that the team endorses it also. For Wall a the Gang signs might represent dear friends that he grew up with. At the same time, the fact is that to many people gang's represent a source of terror and fear. There are families that no longer have loved one's because of gang violence. To these individuals, your argument is going to fall on def ears. Part of being an adult in 2020 is adjusting to the fact that other people might not perceive things the same way you do.

All my post was about was the hypocrisy of using Wall's gang signs as a potential justification to trade Wall because: 1) He's been doing it his whole career and 2) they already discussed it and moved forward. It seems to me they are groping for reasons to explain why out of the blew they tried to trade him away. It can't be because he's now a shell of who he used to be, because that would make them liars so this is what we are left with.


Wall can't be a shell of himself until he proves that he can't win anything with Beal and Rui. The biggest part of being a point guard is mental and seeing things far out into future like he you have a time machine in your head 4 of 5 seconds before it actually happens. Wall has that gift. Westbrook does not have that gift.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#543 » by NatP4 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:42 pm

What is this thread
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#544 » by Ruzious » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:56 pm

prime1time wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
prime1time wrote:https://www.radio.com/thefandc/sports/wizards/whats-driving-john-wall-russell-westbrook-trade-rumors
Let's talk about John's gang signs. He's been doing it his whole career. In fact, after the whole "incident" I was watching one of his pick-up games on youtube and he did it again. I find it laughable that the Wizards are now trying to pull a "Redskins" and justify/explain the decision to trade him after the fact. I listened to Tommy and Zach Lowe's podcast they said the organization had moved on. I can only presume that they told Wall the same thing to his face. For that now to be used as an attempt to justify the trade is not only laughable but also dishonest and lacking integrity. I think Wall's going to return as a shell of the player he use to be. They know it and now they were trying to pull a fast one by trading him.

Have the Wizards said even 1 thing about this?

"Miller strongly suspects a September incident — in which Wall was caught on camera throwing up gang signs at a party in New York City, for which he later issued a public apology — is a leading factor in these newfound trade talks."

From the article I posted.

Miller doesn't speak for the Wizards. So the answer to my question seems to be NO. And the trade talks amounted to nothing.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#545 » by doclinkin » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:59 pm

Sheppard has said about the gang signs/late night partying that they were disappointed, he said he told Wall "they can't frame you if you are not in the picture". That John apologized and he accepted it, that if it happens once you move on, but that there shouldn't be a pattern of it happening. That's what Miller is operating from.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#546 » by WizarDynasty » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:06 pm

doclinkin wrote:Sheppard has said about the gang signs/late night partying that they were disappointed, he said he told Wall "they can't frame you if you are not in the picture". That John apologized and he accepted it, that if it happens once you move on, but that there shouldn't be a pattern of it happening. That's what Miller is operating from.


Well John's is learning what it is to be an executive off the court. He is already a leader on the court. John has come along ways. John is number 2 in command in the entire wizard franchise and I am sure whatever is coming from sheppard is parrot directly from leonsis mouth. At the end of the day, Leonsis knows that Wall and Beal are his Michael Jordan and Scotty Pippen. Or is Klay Thompson and Stephen Curry with soon to be added Achiuwa= Draymond Green. Those are his cash cows that he fought tooth and nail to acquire and will keep and protect at all costs. I pretty sure he will provide Wall with all of the off court executive training Wall needs.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#547 » by NatP4 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:16 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Sheppard has said about the gang signs/late night partying that they were disappointed, he said he told Wall "they can't frame you if you are not in the picture". That John apologized and he accepted it, that if it happens once you move on, but that there shouldn't be a pattern of it happening. That's what Miller is operating from.


Well John's is learning what it is to be an executive off the court. He is already a leader on the court. John has come along ways. John is number 2 in command in the entire wizard franchise and I am sure whatever is coming from sheppard is parrot directly from leonsis mouth. At the end of the day, Leonsis knows that Wall and Beal are his Michael Jordan and Scotty Pippen. Or is Klay Thompson and Stephen Curry with soon to be added Achiuwa= Draymond Green. Those are his cash cows that he fought tooth and nail to acquire and will keep and protect at all costs. I pretty sure he will provide Wall with all of the off court executive training Wall needs.


Did you just compare Wall to Curry?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#548 » by wall_glizzy » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:21 pm

Nate, have you considered locking the forum down until the zards are on the clock tonight? It's for our own good :lol:
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#549 » by payitforward » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:27 pm

wall_glizzy wrote:Nate, have you considered locking the forum down until the zards are on the clock tonight? It's for our own good :lol:

ROFLOL
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#550 » by payitforward » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:59 pm

All this has gone way too far -- & then back, around the block, & way too far again!

1. Flashing gang signs is a fool thing to do. But people who are constantly being watched & photographed, etc. are also "people" -- which means they do fool things.

2. No John Wall is not #2 in command in the Wizards organization. He is number nothing in command. Ditto Beal. That's just a silly idea. I'm sure they can think intelligently about organizational issues, especially roster issues. But being better players than, say, Jerome Robinson (picked at random) doesn't mean they can think about any such issue better than Jerome can. They just play better.

3. Only Michael Jordan is Michael Jordan. John Wall is not a player at that level. He's not a player one level below Michael either. He's not in any picture with Michael Jordan. So, no, he is not Ted Leonsis's "Michael Jordan."

4. Ted Leonsis doesn't run the Wizards on a day-to-day or even a week-to-week basis. Ted runs Monumental Sports & Entertainment. That is his business. "The Wizards" is one of Monumental's products -- that's it. That product is managed by Tommy Sheppard. Leonsis is enough of a businessman to know that if he runs the Wizards with Tommy as a puppet, he'll ruin his own product: he's already come pretty near doing that (you noticed that we couldn't even attract top-level executives to an interview after Ernie was fired? Why do you think that was?).

5. Tommy has pretty much a free hand to shape this product called the Wizards. If you hire an executive & don't give him scope & power over his whole domain, he fails. Every time. Now... I'm sure that a major move to radically alter the product Monumental sells (i.e. trading Wall or Beal) would involve Leonsis. But, that's about it. E.g. whether we re-sign Bertans or not will be up to Tommy (though of course he has limits on what he can spend). Who we draft is up to Tommy. Whether we trade down or up is his call as well. What FAs we sign, etc. All in Tommy's lap. I'm sure he has an understanding of what Ted thinks is the best kind of thing to do Wizards-wise to benefit Monumental. & I'm sure he talks w/ Ted about this stuff -- that's called managing your boss.

I could extend this numbered list (e.g. Precious Achiuwa will be Draymond Green when he plays like Draymond in the NBA. Somebody thinking he's an excellent prospect, more than one somebody, as many somebodies as you like, won't move Precious one inch closer to Draymond), but forget it, there is no need.

This is all just nervousness as the longest pre--draft process in human history finally comes to its end! Go Wizards!
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#551 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:11 pm

payitforward wrote:


This is all just nervousness as the longest pre--draft process in human history finally comes to its end! Go Wizards!


PIF, you can work off all of this nervousness by proposing a series of trades that nets us the final 16 picks in Round two of the 2022 draft. Go ahead. I dare ya.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#552 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:11 pm

double post
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#553 » by WizarDynasty » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:16 pm

payitforward wrote:All this has gone way too far -- & then back, around the block, & way too far again!

1. Flashing gang signs is a fool thing to do. But people who are constantly being watched & photographed, etc. are also "people" -- which means they do fool things.

2. No John Wall is not #2 in command in the Wizards organization. He is number nothing in command. Ditto Beal. That's just a silly idea. I'm sure they can think intelligently about organizational issues, especially roster issues. But being better players than, say, Jerome Robinson (picked at random) doesn't mean they can think about any such issue better than Jerome can. They just play better.

3. Only Michael Jordan is Michael Jordan. John Wall is not a player at that level. He's not a player one level below Michael either. He's not in any picture with Michael Jordan. So, no, he is not Ted Leonsis's "Michael Jordan."

4. Ted Leonsis doesn't run the Wizards on a day-to-day or even a week-to-week basis. Ted runs Monumental Sports & Entertainment. That is his business. "The Wizards" is one of Monumental's products -- that's it. That product is managed by Tommy Sheppard. Leonsis is enough of a businessman to know that if he runs the Wizards with Tommy as a puppet, he'll ruin his own product: he's already come pretty near doing that (you noticed that we couldn't even attract top-level executives to an interview after Ernie was fired? Why do you think that was?).

5. Tommy has pretty much a free hand to shape this product called the Wizards. If you hire an executive & don't give him scope & power over his whole domain, he fails. Every time. Now... I'm sure that a major move to radically alter the product Monumental sells (i.e. trading Wall or Beal) would involve Leonsis. But, that's about it. E.g. whether we re-sign Bertans or not will be up to Tommy (though of course he has limits on what he can spend). Who we draft is up to Tommy. Whether we trade down or up is his call as well. What FAs we sign, etc. All in Tommy's lap. I'm sure he has an understanding of what Ted thinks is the best kind of thing to do Wizards-wise to benefit Monumental. & I'm sure he talks w/ Ted about this stuff -- that's called managing your boss.

I could extend this numbered list (e.g. Precious Achiuwa will be Draymond Green when he plays like Draymond in the NBA. Somebody thinking he's an excellent prospect, more than one somebody, as many somebodies as you like, won't move Precious one inch closer to Draymond), but forget it, there is no need.

This is all just nervousness as the longest pre--draft process in human history finally comes to its end! Go Wizards!

\
Back in the old days when basketball was purely a business about selling tickets, then your theory makes sense. In this day and age, running an nba franchise is about knowing your product. Wall and Beal know the product better than anyone, hence they are number 1 and number 2 in charge beneath the owner. You might not like it, but washington has culture unlike any other organization which is why "In Leonsis we Trust". He brought us a championship in Hockey now its time for him to lead us to a championship in basketball.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#554 » by payitforward » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:16 pm

long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
payitforward wrote:This is all just nervousness as the longest pre--draft process in human history finally comes to its end! Go Wizards!

PIF, you can work off all of this nervousness by proposing a series of trades that nets us the final 16 picks in Round two of the 2022 draft. Go ahead. I dare ya.

For a while there, it seemed like the run-up to this draft would last until 2022...!

By then we should have a Covid vaccine all heated up -- no, wait a minute, it has to be really cold.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#555 » by gambitx777 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:36 am

I'd be find trading wall and westbrook or wall for cp3 at this point.

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#556 » by Dark Faze » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:22 am

This is a little wild, but I wonder if Giannis might be prime for a seduction rental ala OKC/Toronto with PG and Kawhi. The Bucks situation is atrocious and there's nearly no way to salvage it. They have no depth and no picks. Chances of keeping Giannis at this point seem terrible and they really can't afford to play this thing out until the last minute because losing him for nothing would be a disaster.

In such a scenario something like Hachimura, Thomas Bryant + salary filler and a 2021 first might beat other rental offers which tend to be rather sparse historically. Meanwhile we still have the bird rights to Bertans:

Wall
Beal
Bonga / Brown Jr
Bertans / Deni
Giannis

If Giannis walks--welp, era is over, but your future is not significantly handicapped. Begin the teardown and trade Beal for picks and young players to replenish what was lost.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#557 » by wall_glizzy » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:52 am

Dark Faze wrote:This is a little wild, but I wonder if Giannis might be prime for a seduction rental ala OKC/Toronto with PG and Kawhi. The Bucks situation is atrocious and there's nearly no way to salvage it. They have no depth and no picks. Chances of keeping Giannis at this point seem terrible and they really can't afford to play this thing out until the last minute because losing him for nothing would be a disaster.

In such a scenario something like Hachimura, Thomas Bryant + salary filler and a 2021 first might beat other rental offers which tend to be rather sparse historically. Meanwhile we still have the bird rights to Bertans:

Wall
Beal
Bonga / Brown Jr
Bertans / Deni
Giannis

If Giannis walks--welp, era is over, but your future is not significantly handicapped. Begin the teardown and trade Beal for picks and young players to replenish what was lost.


Great idea, you should shoot this over to the Bucks board and see what they think of it.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#558 » by Dark Faze » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:10 am

wall_glizzy wrote:Great idea, you should shoot this over to the Bucks board and see what they think of it.


Probably feel the same way that Pacer fans felt when they got Vic Oladipo and Sabonis for Paul George. At the time both those guys were very ho hum players for the Thunder. Sabonis was a very similar prospect to Hachimura at the time, and no pick was included.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#559 » by Ruzious » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:52 am

wall_glizzy wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:This is a little wild, but I wonder if Giannis might be prime for a seduction rental ala OKC/Toronto with PG and Kawhi. The Bucks situation is atrocious and there's nearly no way to salvage it. They have no depth and no picks. Chances of keeping Giannis at this point seem terrible and they really can't afford to play this thing out until the last minute because losing him for nothing would be a disaster.

In such a scenario something like Hachimura, Thomas Bryant + salary filler and a 2021 first might beat other rental offers which tend to be rather sparse historically. Meanwhile we still have the bird rights to Bertans:

Wall
Beal
Bonga / Brown Jr
Bertans / Deni
Giannis

If Giannis walks--welp, era is over, but your future is not significantly handicapped. Begin the teardown and trade Beal for picks and young players to replenish what was lost.


Great idea, you should shoot this over to the Bucks board and see what they think of it.

8-)
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#560 » by payitforward » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:34 pm

Faze -- that's very creative! Seems unlikely we'd be able to keep Giannis -- but, man, it would be a fun year!
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