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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#581 » by nate33 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:32 pm

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:So we are waiting to see if NYK want wall or westbrook orake a smart move and do nothing lol

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

Let's see what we have to give to NY in order for them to agree to take on Wall.



So am I looking at this right? NY is so far under the cap we could send them Wall without taking anything back? Like deal Wall for a future 2nd round pick, just to dump his contract. Would the Knicks do that?

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7358928

I don't think they do that until first seeing Wall in action for a few months.

If we pulled that off, it would be incredible - particularly if the team remaining still managed to win 40 or so games. We would go into 2021 with $40M in cap room and team with Brown, Beal, Avdija, Hachimura, Bertans, Bryant, Bonga and our 2021 1st.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#582 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:37 pm

It would be worth including a future 1st, if dumping Wall can get us in the running for Antetokounmpo. Pairing him with Beal would be the ultimate goal to build a legitimate contender in DC.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#583 » by nate33 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:43 pm

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:It would be worth including a future 1st, if dumping Wall can get us in the running for Antetokounmpo. Pairing him with Beal would be the ultimate goal to build a legitimate contender in DC.

I dunno. Antetokounmpo is such a long shot. He'd have to want to come here rather than Dallas, Miami or Toronto, (or taking more money in Milwaukee). The only way that happens is if a lot of our young players make BIG leaps this year so that we are a playoff contender.

Things would look a lot better if we had Halliburton instead of Avdija. We are suddenly overloaded at forward and way too thin at guard (if Wall departs).
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#584 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:54 pm

nate33 wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Let's see what we have to give to NY in order for them to agree to take on Wall.



So am I looking at this right? NY is so far under the cap we could send them Wall without taking anything back? Like deal Wall for a future 2nd round pick, just to dump his contract. Would the Knicks do that?

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7358928

I don't think they do that until first seeing Wall in action for a few months.

If we pulled that off, it would be incredible - particularly if the team remaining still managed to win 40 or so games. We would go into 2021 with $40M in cap room and team with Brown, Beal, Avdija, Hachimura, Bertans, Bryant, Bonga and our 2021 1st.



Maybe we do something like Wall for Westbrook, and send Westbrook to NY?

And I think coming to the Nations Capital and teaming up with Beal is something that we can sell to Antetokounmpo. Along with Bertans, and up and coming young talent around them with Hachimura, Avdija, Bonga, Troy Brown Jr, Bryant....

I mean that's a good plan A. We just have to make sure we also have a plan B ready, unlike our KD2DC fiasco.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#585 » by nate33 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:09 pm

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:
nate33 wrote:
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:

So am I looking at this right? NY is so far under the cap we could send them Wall without taking anything back? Like deal Wall for a future 2nd round pick, just to dump his contract. Would the Knicks do that?

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7358928

I don't think they do that until first seeing Wall in action for a few months.

If we pulled that off, it would be incredible - particularly if the team remaining still managed to win 40 or so games. We would go into 2021 with $40M in cap room and team with Brown, Beal, Avdija, Hachimura, Bertans, Bryant, Bonga and our 2021 1st.



Maybe we do something like Wall for Westbrook, and send Westbrook to NY?

And I think coming to the Nations Capital and teaming up with Beal is something that we can sell to Antetokounmpo. Along with Bertans, and up and coming young talent around them with Hachimura, Avdija, Bonga, Troy Brown Jr, Bryant....

I mean that's a good plan A. We just have to make sure we also have a plan B ready, unlike our KD2DC fiasco.


If we end up just dumping Wall on NY (or Houston in a 3-way), I'd really like to see if we can trade Avdija for Halliburton. I think a roster featuring Halliburton, Beal, Brown, Bertans, Hachimura and Bryant is a very good fit for Giannis, or perhaps Paul George as Plan B.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#586 » by Frichuela » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:27 pm

How about the following Wall trade?

Was sends Wall to Chicago for Porter and Sato

Problem is we probably have to add some sweetener..either Troy Brown and/or (al least) a future 1st, hopefully lottery protected
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#587 » by nate33 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:30 pm

Frichuela wrote:How about the following Wall trade?

Was sends Wall to Chicago for Porter and Sato

Problem is we probably have to add some sweetener..either Troy Brown and/or (al least) a future 1st, hopefully lottery protected

Both players reportedly wanted out when they were moved. I wonder if they wanted out because of John Wall, or other reasons. Obviously, if John Wall wasn't the reason they wanted out, then they're not going to want to come back.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#588 » by Frichuela » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:34 pm

nate33 wrote:
Frichuela wrote:How about the following Wall trade?

Was sends Wall to Chicago for Porter and Sato

Problem is we probably have to add some sweetener..either Troy Brown and/or (al least) a future 1st, hopefully lottery protected

Both players reportedly wanted out when they were moved. I wonder if they wanted out because of John Wall, or other reasons. Obviously, if John Wall wasn't the reason they wanted out, then they're not going to want to come back.


Agreed...but assuming they would be both happy to reintegrate again in the All eat squad (without Wall in the picture), this scenario would give the Wiz a lot of flexibility going forward (Otto has only 1 year left and Sato has only $5 mn guaranteed for 2021-22.

Problem is why would Chicago do it?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#589 » by payitforward » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:39 pm

Ruzious wrote:
WallToWall wrote:https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7357701
Wall + Troy Brown for Blake Griffin works.
Add whatever sweetener.

Yeah, we're not going to do any better than that.

Man... what a lot of foolishness this all is!

NBA players are professionals; they work for a living. They play for money. That's their only job: play.

If someone who worked for me came to me & said, "you aren't respecting me..." I'd ask him what he meant. If what he told me made me think I had somehow behaved in a disrespectful way, I would own up to it & promise to do better -- & I'd invite that person to point out to me, privately & not in a disruptive way, where he thought I was going wrong in the future.

I'd say that should handle 80-85% of work problems. OTOH, if the problem couldn't be worked out that way, we'd have to push it upwards in the chain of command. If there were no "upward" b/c I was the boss, then & only then we'd have to part ways. Usually it's sensible to do that in a respectful & generous way.

If the big problem is that Tommy said publicly, "we're building around Brad Beal" then it would be up to him to be responsive to John when he brought up the issue. If he didn't bring it up, then it would be up to Tommy to reach out to John. If that didn't resolve the issue, then & only then it goes to Ted.

OTOH, if that really is the big problem, what Tommy said, then John might also figure out how to deal with the problem all by himself: be a tremendous basketball player, let your play make clear that the team needs to build around you & Brad.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#590 » by payitforward » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:45 pm

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:...I think coming to the Nations Capital and teaming up with Beal is something that we can sell to Antetokounmpo. Along with Bertans, and up and coming young talent around them with Hachimura, Avdija, Bonga, Troy Brown Jr, Bryant....

Maybe we can get his Mother to move here, & he'll come b/c he wants home cooking?

Or, to put it another way... forget about it. Go back to thinking about how to build a good team.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#591 » by payitforward » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:01 pm

The answer here is obvious: do nothing.

If John has a reasonable team of advisors, as I'm sure he does, conversation with them & also a little time will make him see that he can do nothing by being angry except ruin his career.

For that matter, by pushing this conflict from his side, Tommy can do nothing but ruin his career.

All this is obvious. If John & Tom can't see it on their own, then it's Ted's job to make them see it.

Let me put that a little more strongly: it was Ted's job to make sure nothing like this happened. The single best way for him to solve it now would be to tell both of them that this conflict is entirely his fault. Defective leadership on his part. & he doesn't want them to suffer for it. He doesn't want it to be his fault that John's career is ruined and/or that Tommy's is.

"Tell me, guys, what can I do to make up for this mistake on my part?"

Every time either of them changes the ground of the conversation, bring it right back to that. Be wrong, over & over. Don't hesitate or excuse. Pretty soon, they'll each start talking about where they went wrong in this. Don't accept that: "no, no -- it's on me; none of this would have happened if I'd had my eye on the ball."

Is it 100% that this will work? No, of course not -- but, I'd say the odds are good. & the reason they are good is that it's the truth: this problem is entirely on Ted Leonsis.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#592 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:21 pm

payitforward wrote:The answer here is obvious: do nothing.

If John has a reasonable team of advisors, as I'm sure he does, conversation with them & also a little time will make him see that he can do nothing by being angry except ruin his career.

For that matter, by pushing this conflict from his side, Tommy can do nothing but ruin his career.

All this is obvious. If John & Tom can't see it on their own, then it's Ted's job to make them see it.

Let me put that a little more strongly: it was Ted's job to make sure nothing like this happened. The single best way for him to solve it now would be to tell both of them that this conflict is entirely his fault. Defective leadership on his part. & he doesn't want them to suffer for it. He doesn't want it to be his fault that John's career is ruined and/or that Tommy's is.

"Tell me, guys, what can I do to make up for this mistake on my part?"

Every time either of them changes the ground of the conversation, bring it right back to that. Be wrong, over & over. Don't hesitate or excuse. Pretty soon, they'll each start talking about where they went wrong in this. Don't accept that: "no, no -- it's on me; none of this would have happened if I'd had my eye on the ball."

Is it 100% that this will work? No, of course not -- but, I'd say the odds are good. & the reason they are good is that it's the truth: this problem is entirely on Ted Leonsis.




I think it's actually Antawn Jamison's job to straighten this out...

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/wizards-hiring-antawn-jamison-continues-major-front-office-expansion
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#593 » by Ruzious » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:54 pm

payitforward wrote:The answer here is obvious: do nothing.

If John has a reasonable team of advisors, as I'm sure he does, conversation with them & also a little time will make him see that he can do nothing by being angry except ruin his career.

For that matter, by pushing this conflict from his side, Tommy can do nothing but ruin his career.

All this is obvious. If John & Tom can't see it on their own, then it's Ted's job to make them see it.

Let me put that a little more strongly: it was Ted's job to make sure nothing like this happened. The single best way for him to solve it now would be to tell both of them that this conflict is entirely his fault. Defective leadership on his part. & he doesn't want them to suffer for it. He doesn't want it to be his fault that John's career is ruined and/or that Tommy's is.

"Tell me, guys, what can I do to make up for this mistake on my part?"

Every time either of them changes the ground of the conversation, bring it right back to that. Be wrong, over & over. Don't hesitate or excuse. Pretty soon, they'll each start talking about where they went wrong in this. Don't accept that: "no, no -- it's on me; none of this would have happened if I'd had my eye on the ball."

Is it 100% that this will work? No, of course not -- but, I'd say the odds are good. & the reason they are good is that it's the truth: this problem is entirely on Ted Leonsis.

Even Aldridge said - Of course you try that first. But he also said - it's almost certainly not going to work. I've followed Aldridge for several decades - one thing for sure is that he's not as stupid as you seem to think he is.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#594 » by Frichuela » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:47 pm

Frichuela wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Frichuela wrote:How about the following Wall trade?

Was sends Wall to Chicago for Porter and Sato

Problem is we probably have to add some sweetener..either Troy Brown and/or (al least) a future 1st, hopefully lottery protected

Both players reportedly wanted out when they were moved. I wonder if they wanted out because of John Wall, or other reasons. Obviously, if John Wall wasn't the reason they wanted out, then they're not going to want to come back.


Agreed...but assuming they would be both happy to reintegrate again in the All eat squad (without Wall in the picture), this scenario would give the Wiz a lot of flexibility going forward (Otto has only 1 year left and Sato has only $5 mn guaranteed for 2021-22.

Problem is why would Chicago do it?


Hypothetically, would we prefer this trade to a Wall for Westbrook swap?

The former would give us more flexibility soon but would Westbrook make us that much better in the short-term?
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#595 » by prime1time » Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:23 pm

Well, I'm not giving a 2021 1st for Wall period. So if that's what it takes, I'm telling him to stay home for the season. Realistically speaking, if we are struggling at the beginning of the season I think we need to trade Beal and tank the season. This is a deep draft class and it would be a great time to start building for the future.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#596 » by payitforward » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:59 am

Ruzious wrote:
payitforward wrote:The answer here is obvious: do nothing.

If John has a reasonable team of advisors, as I'm sure he does, conversation with them & also a little time will make him see that he can do nothing by being angry except ruin his career.

For that matter, by pushing this conflict from his side, Tommy can do nothing but ruin his career.

All this is obvious. If John & Tom can't see it on their own, then it's Ted's job to make them see it.

Let me put that a little more strongly: it was Ted's job to make sure nothing like this happened. The single best way for him to solve it now would be to tell both of them that this conflict is entirely his fault. Defective leadership on his part. & he doesn't want them to suffer for it. He doesn't want it to be his fault that John's career is ruined and/or that Tommy's is.

"Tell me, guys, what can I do to make up for this mistake on my part?"

Every time either of them changes the ground of the conversation, bring it right back to that. Be wrong, over & over. Don't hesitate or excuse. Pretty soon, they'll each start talking about where they went wrong in this. Don't accept that: "no, no -- it's on me; none of this would have happened if I'd had my eye on the ball."

Is it 100% that this will work? No, of course not -- but, I'd say the odds are good. & the reason they are good is that it's the truth: this problem is entirely on Ted Leonsis.

Even Aldridge said - Of course you try that first. But he also said - it's almost certainly not going to work. I've followed Aldridge for several decades - one thing for sure is that he's not as stupid as you seem to think he is.

You're talking about David Aldridge? I'm a bit confused -- where did I indicate that I thought he was a dummy? I don't.

What choices do we have? I certainly would not want to trade John Wall in a deal where we added anything. We can't afford to do that. Certainly we can't afford to give away any draft picks -- not a one.

Can someone force us to do that? No. &, again, whom does John harm if he continues to scale this up? He harms himself.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#597 » by Ruzious » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:58 am

payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
payitforward wrote:The answer here is obvious: do nothing.

If John has a reasonable team of advisors, as I'm sure he does, conversation with them & also a little time will make him see that he can do nothing by being angry except ruin his career.

For that matter, by pushing this conflict from his side, Tommy can do nothing but ruin his career.

All this is obvious. If John & Tom can't see it on their own, then it's Ted's job to make them see it.

Let me put that a little more strongly: it was Ted's job to make sure nothing like this happened. The single best way for him to solve it now would be to tell both of them that this conflict is entirely his fault. Defective leadership on his part. & he doesn't want them to suffer for it. He doesn't want it to be his fault that John's career is ruined and/or that Tommy's is.

"Tell me, guys, what can I do to make up for this mistake on my part?"

Every time either of them changes the ground of the conversation, bring it right back to that. Be wrong, over & over. Don't hesitate or excuse. Pretty soon, they'll each start talking about where they went wrong in this. Don't accept that: "no, no -- it's on me; none of this would have happened if I'd had my eye on the ball."

Is it 100% that this will work? No, of course not -- but, I'd say the odds are good. & the reason they are good is that it's the truth: this problem is entirely on Ted Leonsis.

Even Aldridge said - Of course you try that first. But he also said - it's almost certainly not going to work. I've followed Aldridge for several decades - one thing for sure is that he's not as stupid as you seem to think he is.

You're talking about David Aldridge? I'm a bit confused -- where did I indicate that I thought he was a dummy? I don't.

What choices do we have? I certainly would not want to trade John Wall in a deal where we added anything. We can't afford to do that. Certainly we can't afford to give away any draft picks -- not a one.

Can someone force us to do that? No. &, again, whom does John harm if he continues to scale this up? He harms himself.

You really haven't read what he said? You might want to do that. it's on his twitter account.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#598 » by payitforward » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:27 am

Ruzious wrote:
payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Even Aldridge said - Of course you try that first. But he also said - it's almost certainly not going to work. I've followed Aldridge for several decades - one thing for sure is that he's not as stupid as you seem to think he is.

You're talking about David Aldridge? I'm a bit confused -- where did I indicate that I thought he was a dummy? I don't.

What choices do we have? I certainly would not want to trade John Wall in a deal where we added anything. We can't afford to do that. Certainly we can't afford to give away any draft picks -- not a one.

Can someone force us to do that? No. &, again, whom does John harm if he continues to scale this up? He harms himself.

You really haven't read what he said? You might want to do that. it's on his twitter account.

Just did. He has the right idea -- this is up to Ted Leonsis to solve.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#599 » by Ruzious » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:30 am

payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
payitforward wrote:You're talking about David Aldridge? I'm a bit confused -- where did I indicate that I thought he was a dummy? I don't.

What choices do we have? I certainly would not want to trade John Wall in a deal where we added anything. We can't afford to do that. Certainly we can't afford to give away any draft picks -- not a one.

Can someone force us to do that? No. &, again, whom does John harm if he continues to scale this up? He harms himself.

You really haven't read what he said? You might want to do that. it's on his twitter account.

Just did. He has the right idea -- this is up to Ted Leonsis to solve.

Then you didn't read much of it. He says there's virtually no way it'll work out without a trade. He's got a whole article on it.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX 

Post#600 » by Gig18 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:16 am

Wall's under contract. I agree with Pif on this. He plays. I don't think the team should be giving up assets to get rid of a guy we were all excited to see come back 1 week ago.
He's gonna want to compete. Rub some dirt on it and get back to work.
If houston wants a straight up swap and John turns into a jerk, THEN we talk.

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