Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXIX

[payitforward]

I read the article, Ruz. I know what he says in it. As I wrote, he's exactly correct in pointing to Ted as the person who must take responsibility for solving this problem.

But Aldridge is a journalist (a good one) not a businessman, a story-teller not a problem-solver. Aldridge takes all the pieces of the issue at face value & treats them as the elements of a drama or a film scenario -- there's a plot, characters, drama & a denouement.

The problem with that point of view is pretty simple: if you treat life as if it were Othello or King Lear, then you get the same result as in those plays -- everyone suffers. No one comes out whole.

There is no upside in this situation if it continues on that basis. Once John Wall becomes a malcontent, the guy who forced a trade because his ego was too big to handle the situation he was in, he'll always be that. & he'll be traded again -- I can guarantee it. His career will be significantly diminished, more likely ruined.

IOW, John Wall -- not the Wizards -- is the one with the most to lose. Though, of course, the Wizards will lose too. That's how tragedy works: one person is at the center of the suffering, but everyone suffers. & the entire structure in which they lived -- whether it was family, country, whatever -- is destroyed.

There is no need to accept that framework, because there is no benefit to accepting it. Just pain.

This situation is, at its heart, a business problem. & if it isn't one, it needs to be turned into one. When Ted Leonsis met John Wall he was a 19 year old kid. Ted has watched him turn into a man. & a star. Ted & only Ted has the seniority, the standing with John, to help him turn the head of this beast of an issue before it slams into a wall.

Yes, John has an ego; he has a right to an ego. & he's sensitive; he has a right to that sensitivity. But, no human issue is solved via the assertion of ego. None. Never.

I'm not saying this one can be solved at all. I'm saying that if it can be, it will only be by Ted -- & only if Ted Leonsis is smart enough, big enough & deep enough to take it on.

The worst & weakest thing to do will be to trade John Wall -- as if this will put the problem behind you. The opposite, if you trade him then you have the problem on your resume & your balance sheet forever. It's failure. For the Wizards & (as I've said several times now) all the more for John.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Wall and Hachimura for Aaron Gordon, Terrence Ross, and Markelle Fultz.

Bottom line is the contract gets moved. Very meh players in return; but, Gordon is probably as good or better than Rui’s ceiling.

I think Fultz is serviceable but if not he’s on a rookie deal. He can be traded and so can Ross.

[FAH1223]

Wall and Hachimura for Aaron Gordon, Terrence Ross, and Markelle Fultz.

Bottom line is the contract gets moved. Very meh players in return; but, Gordon is probably as good or better than Rui’s ceiling.

I think Fultz is serviceable but if not he’s on a rookie deal. He can be traded and so can Ross.

Fultz is a RFA in 2021.

And Leonsis is not going to trade Rui and the Japanese market away that fast.

[FAH1223]

There is no value in trading Wall. Look at what the beat writers say here of other teams. I am not giving up a 2021 1st round pick or a 2022 1st round pick AT ALL.

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Houston Rockets (by Kelly Iko): Honestly, I’d give it a 50-50 chance. With the state of uncertainty surrounding the Rockets’ two best players, you really can’t rule anything out. Wall for Westbrook would be a pretty clean swap cap-wise, and James Harden and Wall have a good relationship. But basketball-wise, does it make that much more sense than a Westbrook-Harden pairing? Wall might be a smoother, more natural playmaker than the aggressive Westbrook, but he isn’t that much more of a threat from the perimeter. I think the deal becomes much more likely if the Rockets receive the sort of draft compensation they’re looking for, recouping some of what they lost in the Chris Paul trade.

Oklahoma City Thunder (by Erik Horne): There’s a slim chance. If the past week has taught us anything, Thunder GM Sam Presti is valuing two things in this stage of the rebuild: first-round picks and financial flexibility. Wall certainly doesn’t help the Thunder with the latter. The only bad multi-year contract on the Thunder’s books is Al Horford’s, and even his contract (partially guaranteed for $14.5 million in 2022-23) isn’t as bad as Wall’s. Is it conceivable the Wizards could trade Wall to the Thunder with multiple first-round picks attached? Sure. Could those first-round picks end up being more valuable than any of the ones the Thunder acquired from the Clippers, Rockets, Pelicans, Warriors or Heat in the past year? Yes, because the Wizards could still be terrible next season. But Presti has already acquired first-round picks from Golden State and New Orleans in trades without having to take on the bloated, multi-year contracts of Andrew Wiggins and Eric Bledsoe, which means he’s probably going to avoid Wall, too.

New York Knicks (by Mike Vorkunov): Normally, I’d say the likelihood of the Knicks trading for Wall is slim to no way — c’mon, why are you asking? But the Knicks have shown a willingness to explore almost anything under new team president Leon Rose. I don’t say that pejoratively. There’s an openness so far, it seems, that looks like no deal is truly off the table unless it’s been better. See their reported involvement in the Westbrook trade market, which has hazards but has also been explored. The Knicks could look into the Wall sweepstakes, but it’s doubtful anything happens unless Washington is willing to sweeten the deal for a point guard on the wrong side of 30 coming off an injury and on a $133 million deal. So, let’s put the chances at probably not, but you can’t ever say never.

San Antonio Spurs (by Fred Katz): Like with other teams, the Spurs might be more into a deal if the Wizards were willing to incentivize taking on Wall’s contract. But that’s never easy. The one thing the Wizards would have going for them is San Antonio’s desire to remain competitive during Gregg Popovich’s final years. If the organization believes Wall can show something after returning from injury, maybe it tries placing him next to DeMar DeRozan — and it’s not like the Spurs have emphasized 3-point shooting as much as other franchises. But they also almost never make trades. And they probably won’t break the trend by dealing for someone like Wall, unless it meant taking in a boatload of picks.

Detroit Pistons (by James Edwards): Detroit isn’t far away from Griffin’s large contract coming off the books. Additionally, the Pistons just drafted French point guard Killian Hayes with the No. 7 pick. Not only does Wall not make sense from a financial standpoint, he’d hinder the development of the potential point guard of the future.

Sacramento Kings (by Jason Jones): The idea of bringing in a former All-Star sounds appealing for a team that’s missed the playoffs for 14 straight seasons. But the price would be too high. It would make no sense for Washington to trade Wall to Sacramento and not want De’Aaron Fox in return. Also, given Wall’s recent injuries, and the Kings drafting Tyrese Haliburton, Wall in Sacramento is not happening.

Charlotte Hornets (by Fred Katz): The Hornets were unlikely to trade for Wall before Saturday and less likely after, when they reportedly agreed to a four-year, $120 million deal with free-agent forward Gordon Hayward. Not only does the signing eat up their remaining cap space, leaving the Knicks and Hawks as the only teams with substantial room remaining, but it also led to the elimination of one potential target in a would-be swap: Nicolas Batum, whom Charlotte plans to waive to make room for Hayward. Batum was on a massive, expiring contract. If the Wizards parted with enough picks to make it worth the Hornets’ time, they could’ve gotten off Wall’s salary for 2021-22 and 2022-23. But Charlotte already has Terry Rozier, Devonte Graham and LaMelo Ball, whom it just selected with the No. 3 pick. It’s not exactly like the Hornets are on the prowl for another ball-dominant point guard.

Orlando Magic (by Josh Robbins): I cannot envision any scenario in which the Magic would trade for Wall. The primary reason: the massive salary commitments to Wall over the next three seasons, including his player option for 2022-23. In addition, there is no guarantee Wall will be the same player he was before his Achilles injury. Plus, the Magic are bullish about the potential of Markelle Fultz and just-drafted guard Cole Anthony.

Milwaukee Bucks (by Eric Nehm): The Bucks just sent three first-round picks, two future pick swaps, Bledsoe and George Hill to the Pelicans for Jrue Holiday. Whether Holiday gets the credit he deserves, the Bucks now have a big three with him, Giannis Antetokounmpo and Khris Middleton that few teams can match. They are not going to break that up for Wall. So, not only would they not be interested in trading for Wall, the logistics of getting such a trade done after the Holiday trade make my brain hurt. That is an emphatic “no” from Milwaukee.

Atlanta Hawks (by Chris Kirschner): I can’t see any defensible reason why the Hawks would trade for Wall. His contract is absurd and the Hawks don’t need a starting point guard, so paying more than $40 million per year for the next three seasons for a backup makes absolutely no sense.

[Ruzious]

New York and Detroit are the only real possibilities, imo.

[nate33]

Wall and Hachimura for Aaron Gordon, Terrence Ross, and Markelle Fultz.

Bottom line is the contract gets moved. Very meh players in return; but, Gordon is probably as good or better than Rui’s ceiling.

I think Fultz is serviceable but if not he’s on a rookie deal. He can be traded and so can Ross.

That's actually a plausible trade idea!

Aaron Gordon is about what I expect Hachimura to pan out to be, so it's not like we are losing Hachimura in the trade, we are just transforming him to a more expensive version of him. The rest of the trade is basically just dumping Wall for salary filler.

Orlando is in 42-win No Man's Land as a team (too good to get high picks, too bad to ever win a first round playoff matchup), so it's conceivable that they might try this just to shake things up. But probably not unless Fultz disappoints early this year while Wall looks recovered.

[nuposse04]

Our best option would be for him to medically retire tbh.

[pcbothwel]

Wall and Hachimura for Aaron Gordon, Terrence Ross, and Markelle Fultz.

Bottom line is the contract gets moved. Very meh players in return; but, Gordon is probably as good or better than Rui’s ceiling.

I think Fultz is serviceable but if not he’s on a rookie deal. He can be traded and so can Ross.

That's actually a plausible trade idea!

Aaron Gordon is about what I expect Hachimura to pan out to be, so it's not like we are losing Hachimura in the trade, we are just transforming him to a more expensive version of him. The rest of the trade is basically just dumping Wall for salary filler.

Orlando is in 42-win No Man's Land as a team (too good to get high picks, too bad to ever win a first round playoff matchup), so it's conceivable that they might try this just to shake things up. But probably not unless Fultz disappoints early this year while Wall looks recovered.

Nate... couldnt disagree more. Gordon may have more upside defensively and better playmaking/passing instincts, but Rui has a MUCH higher ceiling on offense. Rui shot 83% from the line as a rookie, while Gordon is a career 70% FT shooter. His career TS of 53% is actually slightly lower than Rui put up this year.

I think Rui ends up the far more prolific scorer. Also, Rui seems to have a work ethic that exceeds everything Ive seen and heard about Gordon. Pass.

[prime1time]

Wall and Hachimura for Aaron Gordon, Terrence Ross, and Markelle Fultz.

Bottom line is the contract gets moved. Very meh players in return; but, Gordon is probably as good or better than Rui’s ceiling.

I think Fultz is serviceable but if not he’s on a rookie deal. He can be traded and so can Ross.

That's actually a plausible trade idea!

Aaron Gordon is about what I expect Hachimura to pan out to be, so it's not like we are losing Hachimura in the trade, we are just transforming him to a more expensive version of him. The rest of the trade is basically just dumping Wall for salary filler.

Orlando is in 42-win No Man's Land as a team (too good to get high picks, too bad to ever win a first round playoff matchup), so it's conceivable that they might try this just to shake things up. But probably not unless Fultz disappoints early this year while Wall looks recovered.

Nate... couldnt disagree more. Gordon may have more upside defensively and better playmaking/passing instincts, but Rui has a MUCH higher ceiling on offense. Rui shot 83% from the line as a rookie, while Gordon is a career 70% FT shooter. His career TS of 53% is actually slightly lower than Rui put up this year.

I think Rui ends up the far more prolific scorer. Also, Rui seems to have a work ethic that exceeds everything Ive seen and heard about Gordon. Pass.

The Gordon Rui comparisons have no basis. Gordon can't still can't shoot and he's been working on it for years. He's pretty much the same player he came into the league as. If Wall wants to be traded fine, but I'm not giving up assets to do it.

[nate33]

Nate... couldnt disagree more. Gordon may have more upside defensively and better playmaking/passing instincts, but Rui has a MUCH higher ceiling on offense. Rui shot 83% from the line as a rookie, while Gordon is a career 70% FT shooter. His career TS of 53% is actually slightly lower than Rui put up this year.

I think Rui ends up the far more prolific scorer. Also, Rui seems to have a work ethic that exceeds everything Ive seen and heard about Gordon. Pass.

I'm okay with trading Rui's superior offensive upside for Gordon's superior defensive upside. Again, this is all in the context of Wall demanding a trade and ownership deciding to execute a trade because they're worried about Beal leaving. Obviously, it would be better to do nothing at all.

[queridiculo]

Should be an interesting week.

It's been quiet over the weekend on the Wall front, surely there's going to be some noise before training camp starts next week?

[Doug_Blew]

Wall and Hachimura for Aaron Gordon, Terrence Ross, and Markelle Fultz.

Bottom line is the contract gets moved. Very meh players in return; but, Gordon is probably as good or better than Rui’s ceiling.

I think Fultz is serviceable but if not he’s on a rookie deal. He can be traded and so can Ross.

That's actually a plausible trade idea!

Aaron Gordon is about what I expect Hachimura to pan out to be, so it's not like we are losing Hachimura in the trade, we are just transforming him to a more expensive version of him. The rest of the trade is basically just dumping Wall for salary filler.

Orlando is in 42-win No Man's Land as a team (too good to get high picks, too bad to ever win a first round playoff matchup), so it's conceivable that they might try this just to shake things up. But probably not unless Fultz disappoints early this year while Wall looks recovered.

This would be fitting. Wasn't Orlando that took Arenas off of our hands?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Wall and Hachimura for Aaron Gordon, Terrence Ross, and Markelle Fultz.

Bottom line is the contract gets moved. Very meh players in return; but, Gordon is probably as good or better than Rui’s ceiling.

I think Fultz is serviceable but if not he’s on a rookie deal. He can be traded and so can Ross.

That's actually a plausible trade idea!

Aaron Gordon is about what I expect Hachimura to pan out to be, so it's not like we are losing Hachimura in the trade, we are just transforming him to a more expensive version of him. The rest of the trade is basically just dumping Wall for salary filler.

Orlando is in 42-win No Man's Land as a team (too good to get high picks, too bad to ever win a first round playoff matchup), so it's conceivable that they might try this just to shake things up. But probably not unless Fultz disappoints early this year while Wall looks recovered.

This would be fitting. Wasn't Orlando that took Arenas off of our hands?

Yep, for Rashard Lewis. The Wizards have a history of trading with Orlando—most recent was the acquisition of Jason Smith and Andrew Nicholson.

Wall never was a superstar but he’s payed as if he is one and his reputation is that he’s a better talent than what I think he actually is. This deal is as nate33 said, plausible.

[payitforward]

Well... I've made myself clear. I simply do nothing. Certainly, I don't give stuff away to move John.

Come the start of training camp, John either shows up or he doesn't. 99% he shows up. By then he'll have had enough conversations to realize that he can't help himself by being intransigent.

Once he's in camp, there are plenty of opportunities for Tommy to say he's sorry for the "building around Beal" remark -- & that it was taken out of context, didn't mean *not* building around you, John! Ted shows up with the same attitude. Beal says "I don't know what he was talking about, can't wait for us to be on the court together," etc. etc. etc.

In the end, it's "Hey we're family -- & every family has squabbles -- let's show the world that we can get past this."

[pcbothwel]

Well... I've made myself clear. I simply do nothing. Certainly, I don't give stuff away to move John.

Come the start of training camp, John either shows up or he doesn't. 99% he shows up. By then he'll have had enough conversations to realize that he can't help himself by being intransigent.

Once he's in camp, there are plenty of opportunities for Tommy to say he's sorry for the "building around Beal" remark -- & that it was taken out of context, didn't mean *not* building around you, John! Ted shows up with the same attitude. Beal says "I don't know what he was talking about, can't wait for us to be on the court together," etc. etc. etc.

In the end, it's "Hey we're family -- & every family has squabbles -- let's show the world that we can get past this."

Couldn't agree more.
I think everyone is a bit stir crazy and the schedule being condensed doesnt help. Give Wall 30 games and I guarantee the market on him changes FAST. Remember how awful CP3, Hayward, etc. were... Hell, NOP just paid assets to acquire Steven Adams making 30M this year!!!

Wait until the inevitable Derozan, Love, Blake, etc. trade happens and people look around and say "What! No way you pay assets while taking on that contract..."
Rinse and repeat.

[Ruzious]

Didn't Ted once say we're built around Blatche, Javale and Young? I'm not sure the Wiz management is good at this stuff. Don't they have a VP that can try to work this out?

Btw, training camp starts in about a week. Preseason games start on Dec 11.

[payitforward]

I think it was that "there's a new big 3 -- Blatche, Jordan Crawford, & I forget who the 3d was.

[nate33]

I think it was that "there's a new big 3 -- Blatche, Jordan Crawford, & I forget who the 3d was.

It was Young, Blatche and McGee. LOL

[bsilver]

I liked Andray Blatche. He had some talent. Unfortunately he made a lot of bad decisions. Really a lot!

[Ruzious]

So, where are we trading Ish? With no Wall trade and Neto aboard - not to mention drafting a PG and saying TBJ will play some PG, seems like there's no room for Ish. Hmm, that would be a good title - "No room for Ish".