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2020 Draft - Part II

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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#641 » by payitforward » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:36 pm

doclinkin wrote:I'll judge this draft by our UDFA pick ups.

Unfortunately for us, the Mavericks are signing Nate Hinton....
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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#642 » by payitforward » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:55 pm

nate33 wrote:...I don't really care about the Cassius Winston selection. ...In the long run, picks in the 50's never pan out to be anything more than journeymen, so it doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things....

You are right, but... there are always a few exceptions available to prove the rule. Monte Morris went #51 in '17 & is a terrific player. about to get an extension for real money. IT went #60.

You're right all the same -- yet... most guys picked from 4-14 never pan out to be be anything more than journeymen! :)

nate33 wrote:There's always a Chris Chiozza available in the G-League.

Chiozza's not a journeyman, he's a guy who doesn't belong in the league.

Of course, Winston may turn out to be that too! :)

But... I don't think so: take a look at his Sophomore-Junior numbers, & maybe you'll agree: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/cassius-winston-1.html#2018-2019-sum:players_per_min
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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#643 » by prime1time » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:03 pm

Did we get any undrafted free agents?
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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#644 » by NatP4 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:04 pm

Winston had a .601 career TS% as well as a 6.4-2.7 A/TO ratio. I’m not sure what else you could ask for at 51. I expect him to be a quality NBA point guard.
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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#645 » by youngWizzy » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:08 pm

I'm still legitimately confused why Tommy traded out of 37 for 53. What was the return we got from that?
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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#646 » by NatP4 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:11 pm

youngWizzy wrote:I'm still legitimately confused why Tommy traded out of 37 for 53. What was the return we got from that?


They got another future 2ND round pick
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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#647 » by Shoe » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:38 pm

So after trading away our 2021 second round pick to Utah for Trey Burke we now have one from OKC.

And we have the most favorable of the Pistons, Bulls, Lakers 2022 second rounder.

Sheppard actually set us up nicely for the second round the next two seasons.
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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#648 » by pcbothwel » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:16 pm

nate33 wrote:Overall, I'm very pleased with Tommy Sheppard's process, even if I'm a bit ambivalent about the results.

Sheppard was not worried about winning now. His goal was long term - to acquire the highest upside talent for the future. I'm happy with that. I especially love that we traded the #37 pick for a future pick. (Presumably that future pick is an OKC 2nd rounder, hopefully next year when they will miss the playoffs.) That shows patience and a focus on long term upside over short term gain. Once Tillman and Bey were off the board, I didn't really like anyone left at #37 anyhow.

On the actual picks, I have no strong reaction. Like most others, I'm a bit nervous about Avdija because he can't shoot (yet), and it's always hard to predict how players will fare in the NBA when most of their highlights were against second-tier competition. But I don't profess to be an expert on him so I'm not going to confidently state it was a bad pick either. All I really know is that he was a consensus top 5 pick that slipped to us at #9. That suggests that it was a good value pick relative to the consensus, whatever that's worth. I preferred Halliburton, but was surprised as everyone else that he fell past Phoenix and San Antonio too. Maybe there was a medical issue?

I don't really care about the Cassius Winston selection. Maybe he'll be able to fill in as a 3rd string PG who costs only $900K rather than the $1.7M that a vet-minimum guy would cost. So, that's useful I guess. In the long run, picks in the 50's never pan out to be anything more than journeymen, so it doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things. There's always a Chris Chiozza available in the G-League.


I'm really happy about this draft. Deni, Brown, Winston, Bonga, Rui, Bryant, Schofield, etc.... Tommy wants mature pros and I couldnt be happier.
All of our young players love Basketball and are mature. Even the upside plays in Deni & Rui are guys that have zero question about their work ethic and maturity.
I wish we got Jones or Hinton as UDFA, but hard to compete with elite, in-state orgs like the Mavs and Rockets.
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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#649 » by doclinkin » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:54 pm

pcbothwel wrote:I wish we got Jones or Hinton as UDFA, but hard to compete with elite, in-state orgs like the Mavs and Rockets.



Especially in a coronavirus era with restrictions on travel etc. Players who have a choice and with the money being in the same ball park are going to want to stay near to family.
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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#650 » by Gig18 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:38 pm

Chase Hughes is reporting that we also gave up Admiral Schofield in that trade of second rounders last night.
I saw some video of Admiral working out recently. It looked like he had dropped some upper body bulk. Oh well, he'll be with OKC now.
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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#651 » by pcbothwel » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:58 pm

Gig18 wrote:Chase Hughes is reporting that we also gave up Admiral Schofield in that trade of second rounders last night.
I saw some video of Admiral working out recently. It looked like he had dropped some upper body bulk. Oh well, he'll be with OKC now.


Yeah... Also seeing the 2nd is the Memphis 2nd in 2024. Yuck.
We have to wait 4 years to get a pick in the low 50's... poor value, but still happy with Winston.
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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#652 » by WizarDynasty » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:17 pm

I think this is just another bad chapter from the Grunfeld/ Sheppherd era.
We had Paul Pierce here for over a season and the front office still couldn't figure out what good shooting form off the dribble is.

Did anyone even compare his form to Paul Pierce. Deni can not arch his back and deeply bend his hips before gathering the ball and rising into his shot. He is not functionally athletic.
Just look at Paul Pierce shooting off the dribble. Pay attention to Paul Pierce lower arched back and deeply bent hips before he catches the ball on a power dribble before he shoots.
Pay attention to where Paul's elbow is when he catched the ball off the bounce.
and mods disabled my youtube function in chat so you have to click the URL. Blame the mods!!
[youtube]https://youtu.be/MbuA-mHkSS4?t=40[/youtube]
Now begin to look at Deni when he shoots off the dribble. It's night at day.

I would love to sit here and sing Koom Ba Yah but I wont. This is a horrible day, and we picked up a huge Bust. I even typed in the previous thread not to draft Deni. I had already scouted him. If Wiz had paid attention to these boards then Shepphard/ Grunfeld office won't be in the hotseat in a few years when they find out he poor hip bend, back arch, poor elbow coordination, poor standing reach, and he is not athletic. My job isnt to hold everyone's hand and make everyone feel good and just enjoy the moment. The evidence is the videos i attached that shows he has horrible off the dribble shooting form, uncoordinated shooting elbow, does rise above his eyesocket and he can't arch is back before gathering the ball off the dribble. he is not athletic. Just because someone can run full speed down the court and dunk it does not mean they have great hip bend. AGain, the front office did this to themselves. they could have read these post and saved themselves from drafting a bust but they didn't. IT is too late now and I guess we have to suffer and watch it unfold just like we did with Vesely. Sorry guys, it's true. All these guy who keep saying we got the steal of the draft have clearly not studied Paul Pierce form versus Deni form.
Just added this in. NO point in following the Wiz, Beal will be gone after this season because of FO incompetence.
AGain he is slow laterally, not an elite rebounder, and he doesn't have elite 9'2 standing reach length. He has horrible form on his 3 point shooting. Remember Sheppherd was here when we drafted Vesely at 6. We just went through a whole losing season to get another Vesely except this time, I am letting you know as it is happening. NObody else will.

This shows the true incompetence of the FO. Maybe someone can find me a case where Deni shows perfect Paul Pierce shooting mechanics? I doubt it. I am out. Peace guys!!! Just a bad front office that doesn't understand the product.

Good luck to Wiz, but we just go set back another decade with this pick and I even put in this thread not to draft Deni. AGain they say he is 6'9 but he has really long neck. and his last measure showed he had 8'4 standing reach. the guy has really short arms, and really short functional height.
Paul pierce shooting form... high elbow and lower back arch before rising into his shot vs. Deni.
https://youtu.be/MbuA-mHkSS4?t=40
Build your team with five shooters using Paul Pierce Form deeply bent hips and lower back arch at same time. before rising into shot. Elbow not pointing to the ground! } Avdija=young Paul Pierce
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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#653 » by TGW » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:36 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:I think this is just another bad chapter from the Grunfeld/ Sheppherd era.
We had Paul Pierce here for over a season and the front office still couldn't figure out what good shooting form off the dribble is.

Did anyone even compare his form to Paul Pierce. Deni can not arch his back and deeply bend his hips before gathering the ball and rising into his shot. He is not functionally athletic.
Just look at Paul Pierce shooting off the dribble. Pay attention to Paul Pierce lower arched back and deeply bent hips before he catches the ball on a power dribble before he shoots.
Pay attention to where Paul's elbow is when he catched the ball off the bounce.
and mods disabled my youtube function in chat so you have to click the URL. Blame the mods!!
[youtube]_uF5k0S2cE0?t=85[/youtube]
[youtube]https://youtu.be/_uF5k0S2cE0?t=85[/youtube]
https://youtu.be/_uF5k0S2cE0?t=85

Now begin to look at Deni when he shoots off the dribble. It's night at day. This shows the true incompetence of the FO. Maybe someone can find me a case where Deni shows perfect Paul Pierce shooting mechanics? I doubt it. I am out. Peace guys!!! Just a bad front office that doesn't understand the product.


Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#654 » by WizarDynasty » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:38 pm

TGW wrote:
WizarDynasty wrote:I think this is just another bad chapter from the Grunfeld/ Sheppherd era.
We had Paul Pierce here for over a season and the front office still couldn't figure out what good shooting form off the dribble is.

Did anyone even compare his form to Paul Pierce. Deni can not arch his back and deeply bend his hips before gathering the ball and rising into his shot. He is not functionally athletic.
Just look at Paul Pierce shooting off the dribble. Pay attention to Paul Pierce lower arched back and deeply bent hips before he catches the ball on a power dribble before he shoots.
Pay attention to where Paul's elbow is when he catched the ball off the bounce.
and mods disabled my youtube function in chat so you have to click the URL. Blame the mods!!
[youtube]_uF5k0S2cE0?t=85[/youtube]
[youtube]https://youtu.be/op8eCeJUlgY?t=66[/youtube]
https://youtu.be/op8eCeJUlgY?t=66

Now begin to look at Deni when he shoots off the dribble. It's night at day. This shows the true incompetence of the FO. Maybe someone can find me a case where Deni shows perfect Paul Pierce shooting mechanics? I doubt it. I am out. Peace guys!!! Just a bad front office that doesn't understand the product.



Hey since mod's disabled my youtube, can you post paul piece 2:26 minute mark of this video. So we can compare for ourselves.
If you want to see what Pierce formed looked like in college https://youtu.be/MbuA-mHkSS4?t=40. Its here n[youtube]MbuA-mHkSS4?t=40[/youtube] .He had no change in his form in almost 20. Drafting a player with the expectation of fixing his shot form in complete incompetence. Vesely type blunder. ONly the worst of the worst FO would have this strategy.
So again inclusion, he has really bad control of his lower arch before rising into his shot. This is a huge huge huge red flag, that Wizards front office completely ignored!! Same with Vesely. This is classic stamp of Grunfeld era is still here with Tommy. I hate to sound gloom but I been here for a long time. we had the chance the make the right decision and didnt.

Finally pat attention to paul pierce elbow before he gathers the ball, if his elbow is above the eyesocket. and then go look at Deni. His shot has to be rebuilt from scratch. This is years and years of work. This is the grave mistake that the front office has made. There is not sugar coating it, this is a blunder in chess. They blunder with Vesely, they semi blunder with otto, and they really really blunder with Deni.
Had they read this exact thread and comments I made, they might still have their jobs in a few years but I did what i could.
I guess you will see me when we finally get a competent GM that takes the time to study Paul Pierce shooting form, hip bend and lower back arch. Just annoyed that we had the guy here and front office still didn't learn???

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1872549&start=1949
Build your team with five shooters using Paul Pierce Form deeply bent hips and lower back arch at same time. before rising into shot. Elbow not pointing to the ground! } Avdija=young Paul Pierce
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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#655 » by pancakes3 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:51 pm

being stuck on textbook form is a boomer mentality. most modern shooting coaches focus on consistency over form.
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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#656 » by wall_glizzy » Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:03 pm

Anyone else who was on team Okongwu-Haliburtion (didn't consider the possibility of Deni sliding, but would have put him in between the two) seeing these reports that Haliburton told the top 10 teams not to draft him? i.e. steered himself specifically to... the Kings?!

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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#657 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:12 pm

wall_glizzy wrote:Anyone else who was on team Okongwu-Haliburtion (didn't consider the possibility of Deni sliding, but would have put him in between the two) seeing these reports that Haliburton told the top 10 teams not to draft him? i.e. steered himself specifically to... the Kings?!

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This doesn't sound true. If so, the kid's a little whacky.
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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#658 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:24 pm

Boiled down, Tommy’s ‘brilliant’ round two trade yesterday amounted to trading one guy who will end up playing for you for two guys who won’t.

Well, what it lacks in quality it makes up in volume
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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#659 » by wall_glizzy » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:33 pm

long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:This doesn't sound true. If so, the kid's a little whacky.


If I'm Dallas and Haliburton tells me to let him slide to Sacramento at 12, I'm assuming he's had some kind of career-threatening head injury.
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Re: 2020 Draft - Part II 

Post#660 » by prime1time » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:47 pm

wall_glizzy wrote:Anyone else who was on team Okongwu-Haliburtion (didn't consider the possibility of Deni sliding, but would have put him in between the two) seeing these reports that Haliburton told the top 10 teams not to draft him? i.e. steered himself specifically to... the Kings?!

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Wow, that's all I can say. Happy we didn't draft him.

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