2020 Draft - Part II

[Shoe]

Why Okoro over Patrick WIliams? If I'm choosing between those two, I'm taking Williams. Williams is bigger, longer and a better shooter (he shot 83.8% from the FT line). Williams is also 6 months younger.

It's a tough call.

Dat2U has compared Okoro to Marcus Smart and Patrick Williams to Marvin Williams. I think both are pretty good comps.

Of those two players, which do you think helps you win more? Marvin Williams has the conventional tools that make him look the part of a good NBA player. He fits almost any roster but he was never really a difference maker. Marcus Smart is an unorthodox player without a real position, but he really makes an impact, at least with his attitude and force of will.

Marvin Williams would have a better career arc if he was drafted in 2015 instead of 2005. He's been an 81% FT shooter, always had that shooting potential but came into the wrong era. (Pre 2015) 48 eFG%, 53 TS% / (post 2015) 54 eFG%, 57 TS%. He was also overshadowed by Josh Smith and Josh Childress who were better suited for the around the rim style. Not saying he would be an all-star but definitely looked upon more favorably. I think we should temper our expectations of this draft, at 9 Marcus Smart would be a huge win, Marvin Williams a solid pick up.

[WizarDynasty]

Yeah I think if Achiuwa is gone, i would go Okoro, Williams. I have talked bad about Okoro, but he has the frame and explosive first step, great attitude, and plays hard. Those are things you can't teach. And he has the tools to grow. Being around Wall and Beal will accelerate him.
He is way more explosive than K. Leonard and J. Butler. Just watching his step back and how quick he is with it, that move alone is hard to stop.
If Okoro is there, I don't see how we pass on him. I don't think his mechanics are so bad that they can't be fixed. He shows that he dip his hips and move fluidly offensively and defensively. He just need a advanced trainer to teach him correct dip hip mechanics and high elbow and i think he will be above average shooter.
So I give my stamp of approval for Okoro. I think the marcus smart dynamic is well in play here and those who see that have made a brilliant observation that I didn't calculate.

[Ruzious]

Yeah I think if Achiuwa is gone, i would go Okoro, Williams. I have talked bad about Okoro, but he has the frame and explosive first step, great attitude, and plays hard. Those are things you can't teach. And he has the tools to grow. Being around Wall and Beal will accelerate him.
He is way more explosive than K. Leonard and J. Butler. Just watching his step back and how quick he is with it, that move alone is hard to stop.
If Okoro is there, I don't see how we pass on him. I don't think his mechanics are so bad that they can't be fixed. He shows that he dip his hips and move fluidly offensively and defensively. He just need a advanced trainer to teach him correct dip hip mechanics and high elbow and i think he will be above average shooter.
So I give my stamp of approval for Okoro. I think the marcus smart dynamic is well in play here and those who see that have made a brilliant observation that I didn't calculate.

Okoro can add an element of physical and mental toughness that's hard to find. Is there another perimeter player in this draft that can do that? I would say Tyler Bey - but I think of him as a 4. And no to Woodard.

[nate33]

My latest review of a bunch of mock drafts has the Wizards landing Okongwu in many scenarios, but if he is gone, it seems like we almost always end up with Okoro. I can live with that.

Basically, the top 5 are almost always: Edwards, Ball, Wiseman, Toppin and Avdija in some order, with Okongwu being a wild card who sometimes pops in there as high as #3 or #4.

The next 5 are usually: Okongwu (sometimes in the top 5), Halliburton, Williams, Hayes, Okoro in some order.

We are helped a lot by the fact that the teams picking 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 (CHI, CLE, ATL, DET, NY) are not particularly interested in adding a center, except perhaps for Detroit. If Okongwu gets past CHA at #3, he often falls to #9.

Of course, in real life, trades happen. It's very much possible that Golden State trades down from #2 to somewhere in the 5-8 range to get Okongwu. Or anyone else looking to trade up for him knows that they need to trade up ahead of the #9 pick.

[payitforward]

Of course, only one team will get there -- & this may make our #9 pick more valuable in a trade down. If Boston secures #6, the Pels would be my next target. They have 13, 39 & 42, which is what I'd want (plus #60 if I could get it -- why not?).

39 and 42 might get the Pelicans up to 12 maybe. Wizards out right bought 42 last year and could probably do it again. We also have 8 players on rookie contracts so going for more than 1 second round pick is unrealistic let alone 4.

(took you out of the dog house, shoe... all in good fun!)

The idea of trading up 1 spot is a weird one! I don't remember ever seeing it. Tho... why not, I guess? But, #39 & 42 would be a huge lot to give up for that move. It could only mean that there is a guy you have to have, & you are sure that #12 team will take him.

Buying R2 picks -- we bought last year's #2 from Elton Brand, who doesn't value even high R2 picks. He has #34 & #36, so if we're buying, let's get one of those. Big "however" is that Daryl Morey is now in charge. Brand may not have control of picks & trading them.

# of rookies -- don't forget, we need a couple of 2-way players, which is what I had in mind for the late R2 pick & undrafted Nathan Knight.

Plus, don't forget that we only have 9 guys guaranteed; Bonga makes it 10, & Bertans 11 -- but... we don't know that we'll be able to keep Bertans.

[doclinkin]

We are helped a lot by the fact that the teams picking 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 (CHI, CLE, ATL, DET, NY) are not particularly interested in adding a center, except perhaps for Detroit. If Okongwu gets past CHA at #3, he often falls to #9.

Of course, in real life, trades happen. It's very much possible that Golden State trades down from #2 to somewhere in the 5-8 range to get Okongwu. Or anyone else looking to trade up for him knows that they need to trade up ahead of the #9 pick.

Zero percent chance the top 9 teams pick in order. Multiple teams are trying to trade into picks # 1, 2, and 6. And there are teams behind us in the draft who have more to offer to jump up. I'd be curious who is left by 9 that teams are willing to offer a deal and go get. I think there is a chance Edwards and Ball slip a few spots, but if so they won't slip to 9 (I'm fine with that) and if they slip its because someone grabbed Okongwu early. And because Toppin jumped over a few people like he does in games.

I'm okay with a trade down, though I bet the Celtics will have been a team to jump us into the lottery and won't offer what we want. I'm cool with a Pelicans trade. I like Okoro alright, though his selection is more of the team adding undersized scrappy good attitude players at their position and hoping they overperform (Beal at the 2, TBJ at SF, Skinny Bonga at the 3/4). Okoro would be easy to root for. I just suspect we would end up with some chemistry trades along the way looking for a fit next to him.

[Ruzious]

We are helped a lot by the fact that the teams picking 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 (CHI, CLE, ATL, DET, NY) are not particularly interested in adding a center, except perhaps for Detroit. If Okongwu gets past CHA at #3, he often falls to #9.

Of course, in real life, trades happen. It's very much possible that Golden State trades down from #2 to somewhere in the 5-8 range to get Okongwu. Or anyone else looking to trade up for him knows that they need to trade up ahead of the #9 pick.

Zero percent chance the top 9 teams pick in order. Multiple teams are trying to trade into picks # 1, 2, and 6. And there are teams behind us in the draft who have more to offer to jump up. I'd be curious who is left by 9 that teams are willing to offer a deal and go get. I think there is a chance Edwards and Ball slip a few spots, but if so they won't slip to 9 (I'm fine with that) and if they slip its because someone grabbed Okongwu early. And because Toppin jumped over a few people like he does in games.

I'm okay with a trade down, though I bet the Celtics will have been a team to jump us into the lottery and won't offer what we want. I'm cool with a Pelicans trade. I like Okoro alright, though his selection is more of the team adding undersized scrappy good attitude players at their position and hoping they overperform (Beal at the 2, TBJ at SF, Skinny Bonga at the 3/4). Okoro would be easy to root for. I just suspect we would end up with some chemistry trades along the way looking for a fit next to him.

Boston's gonna be messing with a lot of team's minds - with their 5 picks. Ainge isn't a great picker, but he is a master strategerist. And don't be shocked if he trades Kemba Walker while his value is still high at 30 years old but coming off a playoffs where he couldn't hit any 3's when they needed it. My crystal ball says he's looking to trade up for Haliburton - creating an even more versatile backcourt and letting Brown and Hayward and even Smart have bigger creative roles.

[Shoe]

Of course, only one team will get there -- & this may make our #9 pick more valuable in a trade down. If Boston secures #6, the Pels would be my next target. They have 13, 39 & 42, which is what I'd want (plus #60 if I could get it -- why not?).

39 and 42 might get the Pelicans up to 12 maybe. Wizards out right bought 42 last year and could probably do it again. We also have 8 players on rookie contracts so going for more than 1 second round pick is unrealistic let alone 4.

(took you out of the dog house, shoe... all in good fun!)

The idea of trading up 1 spot is a weird one! I don't remember ever seeing it. Tho... why not, I guess? But, #39 & 42 would be a huge lot to give up for that move. It could only mean that there is a guy you have to have, & you are sure that #12 team will take him.

Buying R2 picks -- we bought last year's #2 from Elton Brand, who doesn't value even high R2 picks. He has #34 & #36, so if we're buying, let's get one of those. Big "however" is that Daryl Morey is now in charge. Brand may not have control of picks & trading them.

# of rookies -- don't forget, we need a couple of 2-way players, which is what I had in mind for the late R2 pick & undrafted Nathan Knight.

Plus, don't forget that we only have 9 guys guaranteed; Bonga makes it 10, & Bertans 11 -- but... we don't know that we'll be able to keep Bertans.

Good points. Looking at teams who own multiple second rounders this year:

Hornets: 32, 56
Sixers: 34, 36, 49, 58
Kings: 35, 43, 52
Pelicans: 39, 42, 60
Warriors: 48, 51

So five teams own 14/30 picks. Of course that means a lot of teams without second rounders who probably want to buy back into the draft, so no real guarantee for the Wizards. I imagine though they could easily trade back from 37 for 43 and 52 if they wanted to.

As for the Pelicans trade I look at the recent Kings/Blazers and Hornets/Clippers deals. Kings got 15 + 20 for their 10 and the Hornets got two seconds to move from 11 to 12. Since they only have one first, I think for Pelicans to get to 9 the expectation would be a future protected first or young player as incentive. Josh Hart or NAW?? Maybe even LonZo depending on how much they like who's on the board.

[nate33]

I'll just chime in here to point out that only 3 players in the past 12 years picked lower than 46 have done anything in the NBA before first being waived: Isaiah Thomas, Kyle O'Quinn, and Monte Morris. 3 guys out of 168 players. And only one of them was starting caliber.

If we are going to buy a pick, it better be in the upper half of the second round. Late second round picks merely take up a roster spot we should be using to try out G-League guys. At least G-Leaguers have some professional experience and can often step into an NBA game and fill a role. I'd rather have Jordan McRae or Gary Payton II than the 53rd pick in the draft.

[TGW]

I'm wondering how high Nesmith is on their draft board. He's the best shooter in the draft, and he plays a position of need.

You put Beal, Bertans, and Nesmith out there and you have a seriously dangerous outside shooting team.

[Gig18]

Or take a chance on landing a guy like Jordan Nwora in the second round. He's a lot like Nesmith. 6'8", shoots the lights out. Got some athleticism.

[doclinkin]

Or take a chance on landing a guy like Jordan Nwora in the second round. He's a lot like Nesmith. 6'8", shoots the lights out. Got some athleticism.

Another bargain in round 2. Solid rebounding. There is upside to his athleticism. He struggled against the best teams, but he was the focal point of the teams offense with no one else around him, so his opponents were game-planning to stop him. Yeah, I like him.

There are full games on youtube, I need to watch deeper on him.

[payitforward]

Yeah I think if Achiuwa is gone, i would go Okoro, Williams. I have talked bad about Okoro, but he has the frame and explosive first step, great attitude, and plays hard. Those are things you can't teach. And he has the tools to grow. Being around Wall and Beal will accelerate him.
He is way more explosive than K. Leonard and J. Butler. Just watching his step back and how quick he is with it, that move alone is hard to stop.
If Okoro is there, I don't see how we pass on him. I don't think his mechanics are so bad that they can't be fixed. He shows that he dip his hips and move fluidly offensively and defensively. He just need a advanced trainer to teach him correct dip hip mechanics and high elbow and i think he will be above average shooter.
So I give my stamp of approval for Okoro. I think the marcus smart dynamic is well in play here and those who see that have made a brilliant observation that I didn't calculate.

Achiuwa isn't going to be gone at #9.

Okoro: this is a kid who shot the 3 at .286 & shot FTs at .672. He wasn't a strong rebounder, his assists were low but his TOs were not low. In short, he did NOT put up good numbers as a college Freshman. That is who we'd be picking. That & not the idea in your or anyone's mind of what his "upside" is.

He might turn out to be really good. That goes without saying. All the same, I'd call him one of the highest risk picks we could possibly make at #9.

Then again, he might be gone when #9 comes around. In fact, word is the Celtics want to trade up to pick him. If they are hot to trot, & we could get #s 14, 26 & 30, we'd have committed highway robbery.

[gesa2]

Have to feel the Celtics are more likely to get a better pick than 9 in a trade but I can’t help fantasizing about the payitforward special. Who would you all draft at 14,26 and 30? For me it would be RJ Hampton Isaiah Stewart and Tyler Bey (or maybe Hampton Desmond Bane and Azubuike). So many solid 5s late I can’t bring myself to go with Achiuwa at 14

[nate33]

Have to feel the Celtics are more likely to get a better pick than 9 in a trade but I can’t help fantasizing about the payitforward special. Who would you all draft at 14,26 and 30? For me it would be RJ Hampton Isaiah Stewart and Tyler Bey (or maybe Hampton Desmond Bane and Azubuike). So many solid 5s late I can’t bring myself to go with Achiuwa at 14

I think the guy the Celtics want if they trade up is Okongwu. Which means it is unlikely they trade up with us.

[Shoe]

Have to feel the Celtics are more likely to get a better pick than 9 in a trade but I can’t help fantasizing about the payitforward special. Who would you all draft at 14,26 and 30? For me it would be RJ Hampton Isaiah Stewart and Tyler Bey (or maybe Hampton Desmond Bane and Azubuike). So many solid 5s late I can’t bring myself to go with Achiuwa at 14

I think the guy the Celtics want if they trade up is Okongwu. Which means it is unlikely they trade up with us.

Celtics might be trying to get a top 10 pick to trade for Jrue, as well as the Nuggets and others. That would also mean the Pelicans have no interest in those 3 firsts so the Celtics could be struggling to consolidate those picks. I would make that trade back IF we could trade 26 + 30 + 37 for 20 and take Josh Green. Come away with Achiuwa and Green, two of the best athletes, Green has great body control and quick release on his shot, and Sheppard has said we need to get more bouncy. We really need explosiveness on a team filled with TBj, Rui, Wagner, Bonga, Robinson, Bertans

[Ruzious]

Have to feel the Celtics are more likely to get a better pick than 9 in a trade but I can’t help fantasizing about the payitforward special. Who would you all draft at 14,26 and 30? For me it would be RJ Hampton Isaiah Stewart and Tyler Bey (or maybe Hampton Desmond Bane and Azubuike). So many solid 5s late I can’t bring myself to go with Achiuwa at 14

I think the guy the Celtics want if they trade up is Okongwu. Which means it is unlikely they trade up with us.

But if Okongwu is gone, I think they look at Haliburton - assuming he's still available. That's where I think we might have a trade with Boston.

[Ruzious]

Or take a chance on landing a guy like Jordan Nwora in the second round. He's a lot like Nesmith. 6'8", shoots the lights out. Got some athleticism.

Another bargain in round 2. Solid rebounding. There is upside to his athleticism. He struggled against the best teams, but he was the focal point of the teams offense with no one else around him, so his opponents were game-planning to stop him. Yeah, I like him.

There are full games on youtube, I need to watch deeper on him.

He's also got solid length. But he's got a rep for being a terrible defender - whether that's deserved or not.

[nate33]

Celtics might be trying to get a top 10 pick to trade for Jrue, as well as the Nuggets and others. That would also mean the Pelicans have no interest in those 3 firsts so the Celtics could be struggling to consolidate those picks. I would make that trade back IF we could trade 26 + 30 + 37 for 20 and take Josh Green. Come away with Achiuwa and Green, two of the best athletes, Green has great body control and quick release on his shot, and Sheppard has said we need to get more bouncy. We really need explosiveness on a team filled with TBj, Rui, Wagner, Bonga, Robinson, Bertans

Spoiler:

Good point about the Celtics having other motives to trade up.

If Okongwu and Halliburton are off the board, I'm happy to trade down with Boston and draft Achiuwa at #14. I'd probably do different things with those later picks. I'm not thrilled about Green position-wise. We already have Beal and TBJ to play SG. If you are looking for "bounce", why not just grab Tyler Bey? Especially since Green isn't really much more than a 3&D guard anyhow. He's not a playmaker.

Green does have outstanding athleticism measurements, though. 30.5" standing vertical, 39.5" max vertical, 3.12 second sprint, and a 10.64 lane agility. Excluding point guards, only Cassius Stanley and some guy named Jalen Harris are more explosive. Green has good size for a SG too: 6'-6" (in shoes) with a 6'-10" wingspan, though that's a bit small for a small forward.

[Ruzious]

Have to feel the Celtics are more likely to get a better pick than 9 in a trade but I can’t help fantasizing about the payitforward special. Who would you all draft at 14,26 and 30? For me it would be RJ Hampton Isaiah Stewart and Tyler Bey (or maybe Hampton Desmond Bane and Azubuike). So many solid 5s late I can’t bring myself to go with Achiuwa at 14

I think the guy the Celtics want if they trade up is Okongwu. Which means it is unlikely they trade up with us.

Celtics might be trying to get a top 10 pick to trade for Jrue, as well as the Nuggets and others. That would also mean the Pelicans have no interest in those 3 firsts so the Celtics could be struggling to consolidate those picks. I would make that trade back IF we could trade 26 + 30 + 37 for 20 and take Josh Green. Come away with Achiuwa and Green, two of the best athletes, Green has great body control and quick release on his shot, and Sheppard has said we need to get more bouncy. We really need explosiveness on a team filled with TBj, Rui, Wagner, Bonga, Robinson, Bertans

I can't find a weakness in Green, and he's young and going to get even stronger. The only thing he needs to prove is that he can be a knockdown 3 point shooter. He was overlooked somewhat because people were watching Manion's fancy PG play, but he's flat out a better prospect than Manion. Granted, his stats weren't overwhelming, but I think that was a function of him being a freshman.