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Deni Avdija

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Do you like this pick?

Yes
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74%
No
11
16%
Don't care
7
10%
 
Total votes: 68

Frichuela
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#181 » by Frichuela » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:50 pm

Ruzious wrote:
WizarDynasty wrote:
verbal8 wrote:A 6'9 Satoransky sounds like a good thing. I don't think Wagner and Bertens are major pieces long term. Hachimura and Avdija playing together at the forwards seems reasonable. Defining 3 vs 4, doesn't seem to matter much in today's NBA.

He is not really 6'9, his standing reach is 8'6. Which that is his true height. He has the same exact standing reach as John Wall.
Character can not make up for lack of length.

An ESPN article said his standing reach is 8'10.


This! Much more likely when watching him in videos next to wings/bigs of the Euroleague
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#182 » by WizarDynasty » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:55 pm

Ruzious wrote:
WizarDynasty wrote:
verbal8 wrote:A 6'9 Satoransky sounds like a good thing. I don't think Wagner and Bertens are major pieces long term. Hachimura and Avdija playing together at the forwards seems reasonable. Defining 3 vs 4, doesn't seem to matter much in today's NBA.

He is not really 6'9, his standing reach is 8'6. Which that is his true height. He has the same exact standing reach as John Wall.
Character can not make up for lack of length.

An ESPN article said his standing reach is 8'10.


Ok I guess his standing reach grew 4 inches in year even though he was still 6'8, Who knows, I would have liked to seen official measurements. But I hope he is longer than 8-6 because there are no return policies in the draft lol. We will see how successfully he is at blocking and contesting shots with his reach and grabbing rebounds. If he has a 9'o standing reach, I expect him to at least be average defensively guarding small forwards. He will get destroyed by p/fs in the post if he doesn't have length and he isn't quick twitched off the floor.
Build your team with five shooters using Paul Pierce Form deeply bent hips and lower back arch at same time. before rising into shot. Elbow not pointing to the ground! } Avdija=young Paul Pierce
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#183 » by nate33 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:59 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:He is not really 6'9, his standing reach is 8'6. Which that is his true height. He has the same exact standing reach as John Wall.

In August of 2018, when Avdija was 17 years and 9 months old, he measured 6'-7.5" without shoes, and had a 6'-9" wingspan, but he had an absurdly low standing reach of just 8'-5.5".

Read on Twitter


I have a spreadsheet of draft measurements from DraftExpress and can find no example of any human being with a standing reach so low while having a height of roughly 6-7.5 and a wingspan of roughly 6-9. Here's a list of everyone who measured between 6-7.25 and 6-7.75 in height with a wingspan between 6-8.5 and 6-9.5:

Image

Robbie Hummel had a standing reach of 8-6 (thanks to being at the low end of both the height and wingspan criteria), everyone else was between 8-7 and 8-10.5. So unless Avdija's arms are attached to the torso at his kidneys, I suspect he tanked the standing reach to make his vertical leap look higher - a trend I'm seeing more and more these days. I note that in the European combine measurements, Avdija posted a standing vertical leap of 31 inches, which is quite impressive for a 6-9 player who is just 17 years old. I think he slouched during the standing reach, probably by about 2.5 inches and, in fact, his true standing reach was probably about 8-8 and his vertical leap was probably only 28.5 inches.

So the next question is, has Avdija grown at all since he was 17 years and 9 months old? If you assume a half-inch or so, then his standing reach is probably around 8-9. While that's certainly not tall for a forward, it's adequate.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#184 » by WizarDynasty » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:07 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
WizarDynasty wrote:He is not really 6'9, his standing reach is 8'6. Which that is his true height. He has the same exact standing reach as John Wall.
Character can not make up for lack of length.

An ESPN article said his standing reach is 8'10.


Ok I guess his standing reach grew 4 inches in year even though he was still 6'8, Who knows, I would have liked to seen official measurements. But I hope he is longer than 8-6 because there are no return policies in the draft lol. We will see how successfully he is at blocking and contesting shots with his reach and grabbing rebounds. If he has a 9'o standing reach, I expect him to at least be average defensively guarding small forwards. He will get destroyed by p/fs in the post if he doesn't have length and he isn't quick twitched off the floor.


Now just returning to this post. When I look at the his outstretch at the basketball net in videos, his aren't even close to the net. I highly doubt based on video evidence that his reach is 8'10. I think the official measurements are right. maybe someone can show some video where his hands are close to the basketball net when he is outstretch. He has really long neck, so it explains the short reach.
Build your team with five shooters using Paul Pierce Form deeply bent hips and lower back arch at same time. before rising into shot. Elbow not pointing to the ground! } Avdija=young Paul Pierce
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#185 » by AZNKidd » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:22 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:
WizarDynasty wrote:
Ruzious wrote:An ESPN article said his standing reach is 8'10.


Ok I guess his standing reach grew 4 inches in year even though he was still 6'8, Who knows, I would have liked to seen official measurements. But I hope he is longer than 8-6 because there are no return policies in the draft lol. We will see how successfully he is at blocking and contesting shots with his reach and grabbing rebounds. If he has a 9'o standing reach, I expect him to at least be average defensively guarding small forwards. He will get destroyed by p/fs in the post if he doesn't have length and he isn't quick twitched off the floor.


Now just returning to this post. When I look at the his outstretch at the basketball net in videos, his aren't even close to the net. I highly doubt based on video evidence that his reach is 8'10. I think the official measurements are right. maybe someone can show some video where his hands are close to the basketball net when he is outstretch. He has really long neck, so it explains the short reach.


Well..it's not like we drafted him for his defensive or defensive potential. He was drafted because of his offensive ability, particularly his court vision, round the hoop finishes, and betting on his shooting potential. At an above average heigh of 6'9'' it gives him the clear advantage in terms of court vision if he is an offensive focal point of facilitator.

But he ain't no Luka. History has shown that offensive talents from Europe literally comes once every twenty year--Drik in 1998 and Luka in 2018.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#186 » by nate33 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:33 pm

AZNKidd wrote:But he ain't no Luka. History has shown that offensive talents from Europe literally comes once every twenty year--Drik in 1998 and Luka in 2018.

Nikola Jokic
Pau Gasol
Tony Parker
Arvydas Sabonis
Peja Stojakovic
Kristaps Porzingis
Toni Kukoc
Detlef Schrempf
Goran Dragic
Marc Gasol
Rik Smits
Manu Ginobili (if you consider him Italian)
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#187 » by Ruzious » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:35 pm

Here's a link to the ESPN article that says he has a 8'10 standing reach - written by... Mike Schmitz on July 29, 2019. https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27281239/deni-avdija-polarizing-top-draft-prospect-2020

Btw, the article's worth reading. When he was 18 and playing in the World Under 20 tournament:

Despite battling shooting struggles and inconsistent scoring efficiency early in this year's U20 tournament, Avdija averaged 18.4 points, 8.3 rebounds, 5.3 assists, 2.1 steals and 2.4 blocks in 32.3 minutes per game. With droves of NBA scouts and executives on hand, Avdija showcased the type of big-game comfortability teams look for in an elite prospect.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#188 » by AZNKidd » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:38 pm

nate33 wrote:
AZNKidd wrote:But he ain't no Luka. History has shown that offensive talents from Europe literally comes once every twenty year--Drik in 1998 and Luka in 2018.

Nikola Jokic
Pau Gasol
Tony Parker
Arvydas Sabonis
Peja Stojakovic
Kristaps Porzingis
Toni Kukoc
Detlef Schrempf
Goran Dragic
Marc Gasol
Rik Smits
Manu Ginobili (if you consider him Italian)


None of those have MVP level offensive talents like Luka (assuming last season and playoff performance was no joke) or Dirk though.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#189 » by nate33 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:40 pm

AZNKidd wrote:
nate33 wrote:
AZNKidd wrote:But he ain't no Luka. History has shown that offensive talents from Europe literally comes once every twenty year--Drik in 1998 and Luka in 2018.

Nikola Jokic
Pau Gasol
Tony Parker
Arvydas Sabonis
Peja Stojakovic
Kristaps Porzingis
Toni Kukoc
Detlef Schrempf
Goran Dragic
Marc Gasol
Rik Smits
Manu Ginobili (if you consider him Italian)


None of those have MVP level offensive talents like Luka (assuming last season and playoff performance was no joke) or Dirk though.

True, but they're All-Star caliber talents. Avdija doesn't need to be MVP for it to be a good pick.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#190 » by NatP4 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:52 pm

If he’s a 16-6-3 type of player that gets his 3pt% around 35% or so and plays solid team defense, that’s a win to me.

I haven’t seen this comparison anywhere, but I can see a little Nic Batum in there.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#191 » by tontoz » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:59 pm

We can't expect to get a Luka caliber talent at pick 9 in a weak draft. Realistically an average starter would be a good pick.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#192 » by nate33 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:03 pm

NatP4 wrote:If he’s a 16-6-3 type of player that gets his 3pt% around 35% or so and plays solid team defense, that’s a win to me.

I haven’t seen this comparison anywhere, but I can see a little Nic Batum in there.

They're very different physically - Batum is much longer and more wiry. But I could see the production being fairly similar - particularly the fact that they're both low key good play-makers who could post surprisingly high assist rates relative to their usage.

I hope Avdija will be a better scorer than Batum though. And he probably won't be as good defensively.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#193 » by Frichuela » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:06 pm

nate33 wrote:
AZNKidd wrote:
nate33 wrote:Nikola Jokic
Pau Gasol
Tony Parker
Arvydas Sabonis
Peja Stojakovic
Kristaps Porzingis
Toni Kukoc
Detlef Schrempf
Goran Dragic
Marc Gasol
Rik Smits
Manu Ginobili (if you consider him Italian)


None of those have MVP level offensive talents like Luka (assuming last season and playoff performance was no joke) or Dirk though.

True, but they're All-Star caliber talents. Avdija doesn't need to be MVP for it to be a good pick.


This.

And let me add to the list the following other euro-players who have been all-stars:

Vlade Divac (all-star 2001)
Andrei Kirilenko (all-star 2004)
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (all-star 2003,2005)
Mehmet Okur (all-star 2007)
Joakim Noah (all-star 2013,2014)
Rudy Gobert (all-star 2020)
Nikola Vucevic (all-star 2019)
Domantas Sabonis (all-star 2020)

And add to the list others who IMO were (at minimum) solid NBA starters: the legend Drazen Petrovic (all-star talent), Sarunas Marciulionis, Hedo Turkoglu.


I think Deni has the potential to be a solid NBA starter, and if the shooting comes along, a one/two time all-star.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#194 » by Ed Wood » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:23 pm

nate33 wrote:...I suspect he tanked the standing reach to make his vertical leap look higher - a trend I'm seeing more and more these days.


The Azubuike maneuver (he lost three inches in standing reach across two years of combine measurements en route to posting a crazy vert. for a center).

As the range of reported heights and weights for Deni indicate, I am inclined to largely ignore the physical specifics attributed to him at this point. Whatever measurements were taken some time ago, and in a slightly different context than the combine stuff. Insofar as I'm aware there isn't nearly the same norm to prepare for measurements at a tournament the way the physical conditioning routines prior to the draft are somewhat crafted to generate strong results at the combine.

e: Time will certainly tell, but Jokic certainly seems on track to be a plausible MVP candidate level player (which is to say he's a slightly down ballot MVP candidate as of right now).
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#195 » by WizarDynasty » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:26 pm

IF Deni turns into our Paul Pierce, pick 9 just like Paul Pierce. I would be happy.

Paul Pierce when he was a wizard with Beal and Wall. Those were great times at the 11 second mark!!!!

[youtube]_uF5k0S2cE0?t=11[/youtube]

Does Deni have Paul pierce traits?
Just imagine if we had Paul Pierce in his prime?
I see a little bit of Paul in him or maybe it's my imagination?
Build your team with five shooters using Paul Pierce Form deeply bent hips and lower back arch at same time. before rising into shot. Elbow not pointing to the ground! } Avdija=young Paul Pierce
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#196 » by NatP4 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:29 pm

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:If he’s a 16-6-3 type of player that gets his 3pt% around 35% or so and plays solid team defense, that’s a win to me.

I haven’t seen this comparison anywhere, but I can see a little Nic Batum in there.

They're very different physically - Batum is much longer and more wiry. But I could see the production being fairly similar - particularly the fact that they're both low key good play-makers who could post surprisingly high assist rates relative to their usage.

I hope Avdija will be a better scorer than Batum though. And he probably won't be as good defensively.


True, not a physical comparison, more about production/role. Secondary ball handler/playmaker, decent scorer/shooter, good team defender. Smart player good effort.

I hope Avdija amounts to more, but I would not be too disappointed with a Batum level impact.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#197 » by WizarDynasty » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:30 pm

Ed Wood wrote:
nate33 wrote:...I suspect he tanked the standing reach to make his vertical leap look higher - a trend I'm seeing more and more these days.


The Azubuike maneuver (he lost three inches in standing reach across two years of combine measurements en route to posting a crazy vert. for a center).

As the range of reported heights and weights for Deni indicate, I am inclined to largely ignore the physical specifics attributed to him at this point. Whatever measurements were taken some time ago, and in a slightly different context than the combine stuff. Insofar as I'm aware there isn't nearly the same norm to prepare for measurements at a tournament the way the physical conditioning routines prior to the draft are somewhat crafted to generate strong results at the combine.

e: Time will certainly tell, but Jokic certainly seems on track to be a plausible MVP candidate level player (which is to say he's a slightly down ballot MVP candidate as of right now).


Yeah and JOkic had standing reach of 9'3. You need the tools to be great!!! I see alot of guys with character and heart at teh gym but they weren't blessed with the tools. STanding reach is something you are blessed with.
Build your team with five shooters using Paul Pierce Form deeply bent hips and lower back arch at same time. before rising into shot. Elbow not pointing to the ground! } Avdija=young Paul Pierce
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#198 » by Meliorus » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:37 pm

nate33 wrote:
AZNKidd wrote:But he ain't no Luka. History has shown that offensive talents from Europe literally comes once every twenty year--Drik in 1998 and Luka in 2018.

Nikola Jokic
Pau Gasol
Tony Parker
Arvydas Sabonis
Peja Stojakovic
Kristaps Porzingis
Toni Kukoc
Detlef Schrempf
Goran Dragic
Marc Gasol
Rik Smits
Manu Ginobili (if you consider him Italian)



How many of these guys (even the big men) shot 57% from the free throw? Now let's look at;
Frank Ntilikina (couldn't shoot)
Dragan Bender (couldn't shoot)
Mario Hezonja (This is likely the closest situation comparison you can make, he played on Barcelona in the EuroLeague, better %'s and stats than Deni)
Emmanuel Mudiay (57% FT in CBA prior to NBA)
Dante Exum (couldn't shoot)
Dario Saric (not the most successful player and his NBA career may be on a downtrend, but he shot 50-40-90 percentages in his final year in EuroLeague on much higher usage and PPG)
Jan Vesely (comparable bad percentages on higher usage)
Kevin Seraphin


There are likely some trends for the Euro guys who bust and the ones who don't. But it could also be availability bias. I don't like it when a EuroLeague guy can't shoot the lights out. It doesn't bode well. On the other hand when you have a sniper-like Drazen or Peja, well, no surprise it turns out well! Even in old eras that didn't value shooting as much as we do now!
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#199 » by Ruzious » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:49 pm

Frichuela wrote:
nate33 wrote:
AZNKidd wrote:
None of those have MVP level offensive talents like Luka (assuming last season and playoff performance was no joke) or Dirk though.

True, but they're All-Star caliber talents. Avdija doesn't need to be MVP for it to be a good pick.


This.

And let me add to the list the following other euro-players who have been all-stars:

Vlade Divac (all-star 2001)
Andrei Kirilenko (all-star 2004)
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (all-star 2003,2005)
Mehmet Okur (all-star 2007)
Joakim Noah (all-star 2013,2014)
Rudy Gobert (all-star 2020)
Nikola Vucevic (all-star 2019)
Domantas Sabonis (all-star 2020)

And add to the list others who IMO were (at minimum) solid NBA starters: the legend Drazen Petrovic (all-star talent), Sarunas Marciulionis, Hedo Turkoglu.


I think Deni has the potential to be a solid NBA starter, and if the shooting comes along, a one/two time all-star.

If he's Hedo with more edge to his game on defense - Tommy did good.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#200 » by WizarDynasty » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:52 pm

Now Hedo never won anything-- Paul actually played for this organization...the Wizards with Beal and Wall, I mean the new Wizards not the old Arenas wizards. Tommy should have been aiming for a Paul Pierce type player at pick 9. We clearly showed in the past when we signed him that he was the ideal small forward. Tommy was part of the FO when that happened. Tommy has alot of wizard footage of Beal, Wall, and Paul playing together. His job was to find a replacement player that mimic paul pierce as closely as possible.

Let's hope he succeeded with Deni and then we can think of Tommy as a genius. Paul wasn't an elite athlete but he has hidden athleticism that I discussed earlier in this post. Maybe Tommy sees that same hidden ability in Deni and he feels that he can unlock it. Let's see Tommy work his magic and earn his title of GM and upgrade from the previous regime.
Build your team with five shooters using Paul Pierce Form deeply bent hips and lower back arch at same time. before rising into shot. Elbow not pointing to the ground! } Avdija=young Paul Pierce

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