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Deni Avdija

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Do you like this pick?

Yes
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15
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8
8%
 
Total votes: 102

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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#661 » by Eli Babak » Sun Apr 4, 2021 6:06 pm

tripy_ran wrote:Is Deni a Bust ?
I know the team is not well coached, but I wonder if he can fit the league.


He turned 20 3 months ago and badly needs a head coach that knows what to do with him + a good workout program for the off-season. I believe he'll eventually be a good point forward, maybe even near all-star level.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#662 » by queridiculo » Sun Apr 4, 2021 6:30 pm

tripy_ran wrote:Is Deni a Bust ?
I know the team is not well coached, but I wonder if he can fit the league.


Deni is a poor finisher and can't shoot. Not necessarily a great foundation for NBA success.

Detractors will say that he's being misused, but for somebody that's supposed to excel on the ball he's simply not a good enough ball handler to be featured.

I have hated the pick from day one, so I am certainly biased, but right now he seems lightyears away from being a contributor.

The fact that he's getting extended minutes is an indictment of how poorly the roster is constructed.

Avdija hasn't really earned his time out there on the court, but he gets minutes any way because who else are you going to play?
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#663 » by dckingsfan » Sun Apr 4, 2021 7:10 pm

I used to use basketballreference.com to compare rookies - that doesn't seem possible now... anyone have a preference for analytics software?
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#664 » by queridiculo » Sun Apr 4, 2021 7:20 pm

dckingsfan wrote:I used to use basketballreference.com to compare rookies - that doesn't seem possible now... anyone have a preference for analytics software?


https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_rookies.html

:lol:
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#665 » by nate33 » Sun Apr 4, 2021 8:04 pm

queridiculo wrote:
tripy_ran wrote:Is Deni a Bust ?
I know the team is not well coached, but I wonder if he can fit the league.


Deni is a poor finisher and can't shoot. Not necessarily a great foundation for NBA success.

But he can pass, rebound and defend, which are great foundations for success. Shooting is typically one of the skills that players definitely improve over time.

It's way too early to judge Deni. He has clearly lost confidence at this point, which is troubling but also correctable with better coaching. I think he can pan out to be a pretty good player, but ultimately his natural position will be power forward, not small forward. It's going to be difficult to develop both Rui and Avdija, as well as play Bertans, when they all play the same position.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#666 » by dckingsfan » Sun Apr 4, 2021 8:54 pm

queridiculo wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:I used to use basketballreference.com to compare rookies - that doesn't seem possible now... anyone have a preference for analytics software?


https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_rookies.html

:lol:

No, I mean you used to be able to narrow down the search by minutes or by a specific stat...

You can still do it - kind of...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_advanced.html

Then click on the age tab. Then download the spreadsheet... but that isn't like it used to be :(
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#667 » by dckingsfan » Sun Apr 4, 2021 9:39 pm

It is still to early to tell since there are only 14 rookies that have played more than 500 minutes.

Ball, Wiseman, Okoro and Williams were taken before we drafted. Of the remaining rookies, I would say that Tyrese Haliburton, Devin Vassell, and Kira Lewis Jr. are playing "significantly better" than Avdija.

I think there were some on the board that were all in on Haliburton and some on Vassell. The ones that got it right were the ones that wanted Haliburton or wanted to trade down for multiple picks. Edit (opinion of course).
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#668 » by Dolevi » Sun Apr 4, 2021 11:40 pm

tripy_ran wrote:Is Deni a Bust ?
I know the team is not well coached, but I wonder if he can fit the league.

I think it is too soon to declare he's a bust.
He fell on the wrong situation, coach and team (with ambitions to make Playoffs), and the organisation doesn't know how to develop his younger talents (See TBJ's situation). Basketball isn't just about talent. See the stats Dirk Nowitzki had in his rookie year and i believe there are more like him (who ended with a good career despite a bad rookie year). Unless you are Lebron James and mega talented player - it is very hard to make the adjustments if you don't fall in the right situation. I think the talent is there and he just needs the confidence, the time to work on his offensive game in the summer, maybe some changes in the coaching staff will help him too (if this team will really be trained good at offense).

He's good at making decisions and running the plays as a Point Forward. He does know how to playmake and pass the ball very well. Also a very good rebounder. I think the most important things he needs to work on are:

1) Ability to use his left hand on drives (and dribble with her well), in general his ball control needs an improvement.

2) Free throws - just a lot of repetitions.

3) 3-pointers, mid-range shooting, and offensive game (also - without being a good threat behind the 3-pt line with at least i will say 40% behind the line, he won't be able to let defenders to respect him and to come to him in order to contest, and then he won't be able to drive to the basket as they locking the paint). He has to work on this on the summer too. The mechanics are good but he needs repetitions. A lot. Also when i'm talking about mid-ranges and offensive game in general. He needs to expand his ability to make buckets. If it is from good percentages from mid-range (he needs to find his shots and spots/plays to make them), step-backs, side-steps, euro, left hand, post, behind the back/throught the legs. He has to work on his skills and traits so he will be more dangerous when it is about creating for himself.


If i'm Deni i'm replacing a personal coach this summer and go to learn and execute well the most of the things that i wrote here. The playmaking, BBIQ, Passing, rebounding and defense - are there. Also the athleticism (Maybe he also needs to gain mass in the summer).If he will work on the things i wrote here well and will make the improvements at them, he can be a really good player in this league. It is a question of time and development. If we won't see the improvements - Maybe his place at the NBA will be at danger. I think his ceiling is very high, so right now to call him a bust - i think it's a little bit too soon. I don't like all these haters. All they do is evaluate how good you are at the moment. As people love to say - Your'e good as your last game :)
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#669 » by Kanyewest » Mon Apr 5, 2021 2:32 am

nate33 wrote:
queridiculo wrote:
tripy_ran wrote:Is Deni a Bust ?
I know the team is not well coached, but I wonder if he can fit the league.


Deni is a poor finisher and can't shoot. Not necessarily a great foundation for NBA success.

But he can pass, rebound and defend, which are great foundations for success. Shooting is typically one of the skills that players definitely improve over time.

It's way too early to judge Deni. He has clearly lost confidence at this point, which is troubling but also correctable with better coaching. I think he can pan out to be a pretty good player, but ultimately his natural position will be power forward, not small forward. It's going to be difficult to develop both Rui and Avdija, as well as play Bertans, when they all play the same position.


Yup. I think Deni hit the rookie wall which may have come sooner given that it's a shortened but more condensed and tiring season. He started shooting 40+% from 3 but I don't think it was sustainable.

I think his play may have gotten worse on the offensive end due to the injury of Bryant who helped space the floor for Deni.

I heard on a telecast that Deni is dealing was dealing with a calf injury earlier in the season, I wonder if that's the case. Also he may have been one of the players that got Covid which may have had an impact on his play.

Only thing that slightly concerns me is that he doesn't seem to be utilized enough in the paint or off the ball cuts to the rim. Deni still has good games though, it's just that he isn't consistent but hopefully could improve in another offseason.

I also think he could compliment Rui well given that Deni appears to be a better rebounder. I want to see him run the fast break more off of misses especially if the Wizards seem to be playing for is 11th place.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#670 » by NatP4 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 3:22 am

Deni could not have been drafted into a worse situation in the entire NBA. He will be a good player.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#671 » by MDStar » Mon Apr 5, 2021 12:37 pm

nate33 wrote:
queridiculo wrote:
tripy_ran wrote:Is Deni a Bust ?
I know the team is not well coached, but I wonder if he can fit the league.


Deni is a poor finisher and can't shoot. Not necessarily a great foundation for NBA success.

But he can pass, rebound and defend, which are great foundations for success. Shooting is typically one of the skills that players definitely improve over time.

It's way too early to judge Deni. He has clearly lost confidence at this point, which is troubling but also correctable with better coaching. I think he can pan out to be a pretty good player, but ultimately his natural position will be power forward, not small forward. It's going to be difficult to develop both Rui and Avdija, as well as play Bertans, when they all play the same position.


I was thinking about this very thing the other day. With Rui and Deni essentially both better suited long term to play the Power Forward position, would you use one of them as bait to trade up in this year's draft for a better pick? For example, if we somehow end up at 7, would you trade the 7 and Rui to move up to 4?
Just let the young boys play! It's truly the only hope at this point.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#672 » by nate33 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 1:15 pm

MDStar wrote: For example, if we somehow end up at 7, would you trade the 7 and Rui to move up to 4?

Yes.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#673 » by payitforward » Mon Apr 5, 2021 2:02 pm

dckingsfan wrote:It is still to early to tell since there are only 14 rookies that have played more than 500 minutes. ...

25 rookies have played 500+ minutes. 4 of them were either undrafted (Jae'Sean Tate & Facundo Campazzo) or else picked in an earlier draft (Chuma Okeke & Dylan Windler). So, if we're talking about 2020 draftees, the number is 21.

dckingsfan wrote:...Ball, Wiseman, Okoro and Williams were taken before we drafted....

?? How about Anthony Edwards? Remember him? :) #1 pick? Has played almost 1600 minutes?

dckingsfan wrote:...Of the remaining rookies, I would say that Tyrese Haliburton, Devin Vassell, and Kira Lewis Jr. are playing "significantly better" than Avdija. ...

That's out of your list of 15 overall, I assume?

Kira Lewis isn't playing "significantly better" than Deni. If anything, he's playing a lot worse than him. OTOH, since the list is longer, a few names should be added: Xavier Tillman, Precious Achiuwa, Isaiah Stewart, Payton Pritchard, Desmond Bane, Immanuel Quickley, Saddiq Bey & Jaden McDaniels. So far, all these guys are playing better than Deni.

dckingsfan wrote:I think there were some on the board that were all in on Haliburton and some on Vassell. The ones that got it right were the ones that wanted Haliburton or wanted to trade down for multiple picks. Edit (opinion of course).

It's "opinion" in some sense, but really better just to say that's what it looks like "so far."

So far it looks like those who either wanted Haliburton or to trade down had it right.

In my case, I was shocked that Deni was available & could not have passed on him -- neither to trade down for multiple picks (my default preference at a pick around #9) nor to pick Haliburton, whom I liked as I think everyone here did.

So far it looks like I was completely wrong. Wrong about Deni & also wrong to have preferred trading down over picking Haliburton.

OTOH, there were others who still "got it right" in one sense or another as well -- even if they didn't want Deni, weren't committed to Haliburton (or Vassell), & didn't want to trade down.

Zards, for example, was a strong supporter of Precious, while I would never have picked him at #9. Things could change, of course, but so far at least it looks like, if not as good as picking Haliburton or Vassell, picking Precious would have been better than picking Deni. There was also some support for picking Saddiq Bey @#9. He's been better than Deni so far.

My sense of hope for Deni comes from the fact that he started immediately & was rather good the first couple of weeks of the season -- before he'd had a lot of chance to be "coached" by Brooks.

Edit: note that since Zards also liked Quickley a lot, if he'd suggested trading down to get both Precious Achiuwa & Immanuel Quickley, he'd be golden in retrospect!
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#674 » by dckingsfan » Mon Apr 5, 2021 2:30 pm

payitforward wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:It is still to early to tell since there are only 14 rookies that have played more than 500 minutes. ...

25 rookies have played 500+ minutes. 4 of them were either undrafted (Jae'Sean Tate & Facundo Campazzo) or else picked in an earlier draft (Chuma Okeke & Dylan Windler). So, if we're talking about 2020 draftees, the number is 21.

dckingsfan wrote:...Ball, Wiseman, Okoro and Williams were taken before we drafted....

?? How about Anthony Edwards? Remember him? :) #1 pick? Has played almost 1600 minutes?

dckingsfan wrote:...Of the remaining rookies, I would say that Tyrese Haliburton, Devin Vassell, and Kira Lewis Jr. are playing "significantly better" than Avdija. ...

That's out of your list of 15 overall, I assume?

Kira Lewis isn't playing "significantly better" than Deni. If anything, he's playing a lot worse than him. OTOH, since the list is longer, a few names should be added: Xavier Tillman, Precious Achiuwa, Isaiah Stewart, Payton Pritchard, Desmond Bane, Immanuel Quickley, Saddiq Bey & Jaden McDaniels. So far, all these guys are playing better than Deni.

dckingsfan wrote:I think there were some on the board that were all in on Haliburton and some on Vassell. The ones that got it right were the ones that wanted Haliburton or wanted to trade down for multiple picks. Edit (opinion of course).

It's "opinion" in some sense, but really better just to say that's what it looks like "so far."

So far it looks like those who either wanted Haliburton or to trade down had it right.

In my case, I was shocked that Deni was available & could not have passed on him -- neither to trade down for multiple picks (my default preference at a pick around #9) nor to pick Haliburton, whom I liked as I think everyone here did.

So far it looks like I was completely wrong. Wrong about Deni & also wrong to have preferred trading down over picking Haliburton.

OTOH, there were others who still "got it right" in one sense or another as well -- even if they didn't want Deni, weren't committed to Haliburton (or Vassell), & didn't want to trade down.

Zards, for example, was a strong supporter of Precious, while I would never have picked him at #9. Things could change, of course, but so far at least it looks like, if not as good as picking Haliburton or Vassell, picking Precious would have been better than picking Deni. There was also some support for picking Saddiq Bey @#9. He's been better than Deni so far.

My sense of hope for Deni comes from the fact that he started immediately & was rather good the first couple of weeks of the season -- before he'd had a lot of chance to be "coached" by Brooks.

Edit: note that since Zards also liked Quickley a lot, if he'd suggested trading down to get both Precious Achiuwa & Immanuel Quickley, he'd be golden in retrospect!

No disagreement with your points. It is opinion on a small sample size. Those that would have wanted Haliburton, Vassell or would have wanted to trade down for a pair of players that are doing better would be "more" right as of now. And Deni isn't a bust and was playing well before the black hole that is Brooks and young players - time will tell.

So, violent agreement.

And one more thing - it matters who your coach (and coaching staff) is as a young player.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#675 » by DCZards » Mon Apr 5, 2021 4:29 pm

payitforward wrote:Zards, for example, was a strong supporter of Precious, while I would never have picked him at #9. Things could change, of course, but so far at least it looks like, if not as good as picking Haliburton or Vassell, picking Precious would have been better than picking Deni. There was also some support for picking Saddiq Bey @#9. He's been better than Deni so far.

My sense of hope for Deni comes from the fact that he started immediately & was rather good the first couple of weeks of the season -- before he'd had a lot of chance to be "coached" by Brooks.

Edit: note that since Zards also liked Quickley a lot, if he'd suggested trading down to get both Precious Achiuwa & Immanuel Quickley, he'd be golden in retrospect!

Yeah, I was high on Achiuwa and Bey was my sleeper…although I probably would not have drafted either with the 9th pick. I also wanted the Zards to draft Quickley in the second round. (He went higher than expected at 25.)

I hadn’t paid much attention to Haliburton or Advija prior to the draft since both were expected to be gone by 9. But I probably would have taken Haliburton since I have an irrational aversion to drafting foreign players. (Probably goes back to when I wanted the Zards to draft Kawhi and they chose Vesely instead. :D )

Deni has a chance to be a very good player. He’s been in a little over his head this season and it shows in his tentativeness, which is not all that surprising given his age and inexperience playing American basketball. IMO, coaching or the lack of playing time are not the major reasons for his struggles as some have suggested.

Playing with a ball dominant guard like Russ has taken away from the number of opportunities that you’d like to see Deni get on the offensive end. But I don’t believe he was ready to take full advantage of those opportunities even if he had gotten them. Deni’s shooting and ballhandling are simply not yet ready for primetime in the NBA.

Deni should benefit immensely from an offseason being trained by NBA-level trainers. I’d expect to see significant improvements in both his game and his body if the Zards make sure he’s connected with the right trainers and camps this summer.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#676 » by Dark Faze » Tue Apr 6, 2021 12:14 pm

I think the development is coming along. He's gotten used to that 3 and D role, even out of position (I think he's a 4) and learning to deal with a lot of heavy usage ball handlers. The next evolution is saying "ok, I'm no longer new to this situation, I'm going to start expanding what I do." I think we're starting to see that. He's had some iso/drive attempts, some nice dunk attempts. He needs to play 1 on 1 with Brad and those guys over at Drew Hanlen's camp in the summer. Weight room will help as well.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#677 » by Dat2U » Tue Apr 6, 2021 1:03 pm

nate33 wrote:
MDStar wrote: For example, if we somehow end up at 7, would you trade the 7 and Rui to move up to 4?

Yes.


I think the Wiz view Rui much like they view Beal coming in. He's a future star and untouchable. They'll tell you he's as good as any prospect in this draft. Maybe they would trade him for Cade but that's about it lol.

I don't know that they feel the same way about Avdija. Deni gets the Otto treatment by Brooks it seems. They don't appear to have a great relationship. Maybe that changes with another coach but a scenario where they move Avdija to get better right now possibly exists... if they feel under the gun to do so.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#678 » by nate33 » Tue Apr 6, 2021 1:19 pm

Dat2U wrote:
nate33 wrote:
MDStar wrote: For example, if we somehow end up at 7, would you trade the 7 and Rui to move up to 4?

Yes.


I think the Wiz view Rui much like they view Beal coming in. He's a future star and untouchable. They'll tell you he's as good as any prospect in this draft. Maybe they would trade him for Cade but that's about it lol.

I don't know that they feel the same way about Avdija. Deni gets the Otto treatment by Brooks it seems. They don't appear to have a great relationship. Maybe that changes with another coach but a scenario where they move Avdija to get better right now possibly exists... if they feel under the gun to do so.

For the record, I'd be willing to trade either Avdija or Hachimura to move up from #7 to the top 4. This team needs star caliber talent, and the top 4 is where it lies.

I agree with your point that the team values hachimura more than they value Avdija, but I'm not quite convinced they think of Hachimura as a future Beal caliber star. I certainly don't. I think there is a good chance that Hachimura pans out to be a reliable two-way starter, about as good as Tobias Harris. That's nice, but I'd rather have a star.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#679 » by Ruzious » Tue Apr 6, 2021 2:44 pm

nate33 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
nate33 wrote:Yes.


I think the Wiz view Rui much like they view Beal coming in. He's a future star and untouchable. They'll tell you he's as good as any prospect in this draft. Maybe they would trade him for Cade but that's about it lol.

I don't know that they feel the same way about Avdija. Deni gets the Otto treatment by Brooks it seems. They don't appear to have a great relationship. Maybe that changes with another coach but a scenario where they move Avdija to get better right now possibly exists... if they feel under the gun to do so.

For the record, I'd be willing to trade either Avdija or Hachimura to move up from #7 to the top 4. This team needs star caliber talent, and the top 4 is where it lies.

I agree with your point that the team values hachimura more than they value Avdija, but I'm not quite convinced they think of Hachimura as a future Beal caliber star. I certainly don't. I think there is a good chance that Hachimura pans out to be a reliable two-way starter, about as good as Tobias Harris. That's nice, but I'd rather have a star.

Me too. And if we're getting a new GM, get him before the trade is made.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#680 » by prime1time » Tue Apr 6, 2021 3:14 pm

What does it mean that he fell into the wrong situation? He's an average shooter at best right now, he can only drive left and he has virtually no in-between game. No team is going to put the ball in his hands and just say create. At best he'll be a secondary ball handler and even then he will need to be able to space the floor and play defense. The reality is he has to improve, a lot. Right now he's not close to being a high-level player.

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