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Cassius Winston Thread

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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#61 » by Ruzious » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:55 pm

As Warner Wolf might have said - If you had 2 players named Cassius going consecutively in the NBA draft, you won! - Winston at 53 and Stanley at 54.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#62 » by payitforward » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:04 pm

truwizfan4evr wrote:can I just be happy about the draft picks and watch them play first before start criticizing them. Most wizards fans are split between the picks we made.

H6ll no you can't! What's the matter with you? Don't you realize how much better & many more we could have gotten?

& it's not about criticizing the picks -- is it their fault? It's about criticizing the guys who made the picks -- for making them.

Big difference, there, really big difference. Wrong team picks you, you can be ruined. Look what happened to Admiral once we picked him! Kid stopped being able to play the game.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#63 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:06 pm

Ruzious wrote:As Warner Wolf might have said - If you had 2 players named Cassius going consecutively in the NBA draft, you won! - Winston at 53 and Stanley at 54.


Unfortunately, neither of them either float like a butterfly OR sting like a bee
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#64 » by DCZards » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:05 am

Fred VanVleet just signed a 4-year, $85 mil contract with the Raptors. Here’s one of the 2016 pre-draft reports on VanVleet. Sounds very similar to what’s being said about Winston. (VanVleet went undrafted.)

Chad Ford's Top 100 ranking -- No. 62: "I've always thought VanVleet had the makings of a good, dependable backup point guard in the league. But I think his lack of size and elite athletic ability really give scouts pause. It's hard to be lacking in both of those at his position."

Scouting report -- positives:
• Smooth, steady point guard
• Good shooter with deep range

Scouting report -- negatives:
• Lacks size for position
• Lacks explosive athletic ability
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#65 » by payitforward » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:12 am

To be perfectly clear, from my POV, Cassius Winston was an absolute steal at #53.

He & VanVleet -- they are similar in size, that's for sure! By my analysis VanVleet was slightly the more productive player overall.

Winston is the better scorer -- more points & higher efficiency on higher usage. He also got significantly more assists than VanVleet.

But, VanVleet rarely turned the ball over & had lots of steals, whereas Winston turned the ball over a fair amount & had way fewer steals. VV also out-rebounded Winston.

Still, the 2 guys were close in overall productivity. &, obviously, if Winston develops in the way VanVleet did, he'll be a big-time player. OTOH, right now he's a guy who was a bargain at #53.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#66 » by DCZards » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:30 am

payitforward wrote:To be perfectly clear, from my POV, Cassius Winston was an absolute steal at #53.

He & VanVleet -- they are similar in size, that's for sure! By my analysis VanVleet was slightly the more productive player overall.

Winston is the better scorer -- more points & higher efficiency on higher usage. He also got significantly more assists than VanVleet.

But, VanVleet rarely turned the ball over & had lots of steals, whereas Winston turned the ball over a fair amount & had way fewer steals. VV also out-rebounded Winston.

Still, the 2 guys were close in overall productivity. &, obviously, if Winston develops in the way VanVleet did, he'll be a big-time player. OTOH, right now he's a guy who was a bargain at #53.

PIF, I don't how you come to the conclusion that VanVleet was more productive when Winston was better than him in 5 categories (FT%, 2pt%, 3pt%, Pts. and assists) while VanVleet was better in 3 categories (steals, TOs, Rebs).

In addition, Winston has a significant edge in a very important category for PGs (assists) while VanVleet has a modest edge in rebounds, which in my imo is a less important category when judging PGs.

But I will give VanVleet props for his lower TOs and more steals.

Yes, they are close overall but I give a clear edge to Winston when it comes to their #s in college.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#67 » by youngWizzy » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:42 am

The Fred VanVleet comparisons to practically every upperclassman guard drafted in the late second round/undrafted need to go. It's hard for a lot of players to accomplish what he did in his time in the NBA.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#68 » by Kanyewest » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:48 am

Wasn't Fred considered a good defender coming out of Wichita state, at least at the college level?
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#69 » by Ruzious » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:15 pm

youngWizzy wrote:The Fred VanVleet comparisons to practically every upperclassman guard drafted in the late second round/undrafted need to go. It's hard for a lot of players to accomplish what he did in his time in the NBA.

Can I still compare every short unathletic guard to him? :wink:
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#70 » by trast66 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:00 pm

Anyone know where I can get an analysis of his hip bend and back arch?
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#71 » by payitforward » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:02 pm

Remember -- if you don't like the post above: blame Doc not me.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#72 » by Eli Babak » Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:59 am

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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#73 » by doclinkin » Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:20 am

Marlon Taylor has some springs for legs. Dude can get up in a hurry. Hasn't played great, but athleticism for miles.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#74 » by DCZards » Yesterday 3:00 am

doclinkin wrote:Marlon Taylor has some springs for legs. Dude can get up in a hurry. Hasn't played great, but athleticism for miles.

Noticed that Taylor is from my former neck of the woods--Mount Vernon, NY. Mt. Vernon HS has turned out its share of ballers, including Gus and Ray Williams, Rodney and Scooter McCray and Ben Gordon. Actor Denzel Washington and rapper Heavy D are also from Money Earnin' Mt. Vernon.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#75 » by payitforward » Yesterday 9:42 pm

DCZards wrote:
payitforward wrote:To be perfectly clear, from my POV, Cassius Winston was an absolute steal at #53.

He & VanVleet -- they are similar in size, that's for sure! By my analysis VanVleet was slightly the more productive player overall.

Winston is the better scorer -- more points & higher efficiency on higher usage. He also got significantly more assists than VanVleet.

But, VanVleet rarely turned the ball over & had lots of steals, whereas Winston turned the ball over a fair amount & had way fewer steals. VV also out-rebounded Winston.

Still, the 2 guys were close in overall productivity. &, obviously, if Winston develops in the way VanVleet did, he'll be a big-time player. OTOH, right now he's a guy who was a bargain at #53.

PIF, I don't how you come to the conclusion that VanVleet was more productive when Winston was better than him in 5 categories (FT%, 2pt%, 3pt%, Pts. and assists) while VanVleet was better in 3 categories (steals, TOs, Rebs).

In addition, Winston has a significant edge in a very important category for PGs (assists) while VanVleet has a modest edge in rebounds, which in my imo is a less important category when judging PGs.

But I will give VanVleet props for his lower TOs and more steals.

Yes, they are close overall but I give a clear edge to Winston when it comes to their #s in college.

Missed this...

Actually, as Seniors, VanVleet had more assists per 40 minutes.

But, if we look at their career numbers per 40 minutes, & we leave out VanVleet's edge in rebounding, the two players are about equal in productivity.

Better yet, if we leave out turnovers, Winston is much much better than VanVleet. & if we leave out steals too, why... it's no contest at all -- Cassius Winston is a far far better player than Fred VanVleet.

But, really, Zards, isn't that a little bit unnecessary? Aren't we really just turning the info this way & that until we find a way to have it tell us that Winston put up better numbers?

Here's a better way to look at it: VanVleet put up a bit better college numbers than Cassius Winston -- but, he did it against a lower level of competition than Winston faced. & that's the truth! I think Cassius Winston has a chance to be quite a good NBA player!
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