ImageImageImageImageImage

Cassius Winston Thread

Moderators: LyricalRico, nate33, montestewart

DCZards
General Manager
Posts: 7,929
And1: 2,303
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Location: The Streets of DC

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#21 » by DCZards » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:33 pm

nate33 wrote:Great. Pick the one guy in the last 10 years with a somewhat similar draft profile that actually did succeed at the NBA level and assume he is the appropriate comparison.

Winston has an 8'-1" standing reach. That's really small. Maybe if you are hyper-athletic like Donovan Mitchell or super quick waterbug like Devonte Graham, you can make it work. Unfortunately, Cassius Winston has a considerably slower 3/4 sprint than his 265 pound teammate Xavier Tillman. He had the slowest sprint in the entire draft class! He also had the worst standing vertical leap of any non center in his draft class. Even Tillman jumped higher. Your comp, Monte Morris, was much faster in the 3/4 sprint (3.21 versus 3.60) than Winston, and he jumped 4 inches higher.

PG may be the one position in the NBA where your leadership skills and what you possess between the ears is as important as physical factors like speed and size.

There are PGs like Andre Miller and the undersized Kyle Lowry and, more recently, Jalen Brunson and Fred VanVleet, who aren't going to win any races or overwhelm you with their size or athleticism. They succeed primarily with guile and savvy. Winston appears to be in a similar mode.

BTW, I love that Cassius led the Big Ten in 3pt percentage and was second in 3pters made.
NatP4
General Manager
Posts: 8,622
And1: 2,287
Joined: Jul 24, 2016
         

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#22 » by NatP4 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:37 pm

So they gave up Schofield and 37 for Memphis 2024 2nd rounder and 53 in this draft.

Interesting
User avatar
Ed Wood
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,677
And1: 212
Joined: Feb 11, 2005
Location: I appreciate Kevin Seraphin's affinity for hacks
Contact:
   

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#23 » by Ed Wood » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:53 pm

I like Winston as a pick where he was picked a lot - one of the cadre of guards who seemed meaningfully better based on their resumes than they were given credit for in the pre-draft process. I would like to say, because I cannot not, that it is very weird to see Kyle Lowry called out as a precursor for successful NBA point guards with below average athleticism. Years have slowed him down and he looks like someone's uncle at this point, but he was really an unusually athletic player coming into the NBA.
User avatar
FAH1223
RealGM
Posts: 11,233
And1: 4,027
Joined: Nov 01, 2005
Location: Laurel, MD
       

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#24 » by FAH1223 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:42 pm

Ed Wood wrote:I like Winston as a pick where he was picked a lot - one of the cadre of guards who seemed meaningfully better based on their resumes than they were given credit for in the pre-draft process. I would like to say, because I cannot not, that it is very weird to see Kyle Lowry called out as a precursor for successful NBA point guards with below average athleticism. Years have slowed him down and he looks like someone's uncle at this point, but he was really an unusually athletic player coming into the NBA.


Lowry was and of course still is a very good defender. Lowry improved his shot since he was drafted in 2006.
Image
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 56,613
And1: 9,957
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#25 » by nate33 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:05 pm

NatP4 wrote:So they gave up Schofield and 37 for Memphis 2024 2nd rounder and 53 in this draft.

Interesting

Interesting. My guess is that Schofield was more of a liability in that transaction, not a sweetener. Schofield wasn't going to amount to anything as a pro. Frankly, it was a mistake to give him guaranteed money in his second year.

It'll be nice to have that roster spot.

I'm disappointed that we're not getting back OKC's 2021 pick. That Memphis 2024 pick is likely to be pretty low.
NatP4
General Manager
Posts: 8,622
And1: 2,287
Joined: Jul 24, 2016
         

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#26 » by NatP4 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:29 pm

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:So they gave up Schofield and 37 for Memphis 2024 2nd rounder and 53 in this draft.

Interesting

Interesting. My guess is that Schofield was more of a liability in that transaction, not a sweetener. Schofield wasn't going to amount to anything as a pro. Frankly, it was a mistake to give him guaranteed money in his second year.

It'll be nice to have that roster spot.

I'm disappointed that we're not getting back OKC's 2021 pick. That Memphis 2024 pick is likely to be pretty low.



Agreed. Was hoping for OKC’s 2021 2nd. I’m pretty confident that Schofield will amount to nothing but a G league body, but I would’ve been fine with giving him another season to show something. Oh well.
Shoe
Rookie
Posts: 1,125
And1: 802
Joined: Nov 06, 2017
 

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#27 » by Shoe » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:13 pm

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:So they gave up Schofield and 37 for Memphis 2024 2nd rounder and 53 in this draft.

Interesting

Interesting. My guess is that Schofield was more of a liability in that transaction, not a sweetener. Schofield wasn't going to amount to anything as a pro. Frankly, it was a mistake to give him guaranteed money in his second year.

It'll be nice to have that roster spot.

I'm disappointed that we're not getting back OKC's 2021 pick. That Memphis 2024 pick is likely to be pretty low.


Bummer. I'm assuming to open that roster spot they would have had to eat the $1.5 and $1.7 mil the next two seasons? All 3 years were guaranteed?
User avatar
TGW
General Manager
Posts: 9,790
And1: 3,424
Joined: Oct 22, 2010

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#28 » by TGW » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:15 pm

Schofield was such a ridiculous waste of time, money, a draft pick, coaching, etc.

Bol Bol was right there for the taking, but instead Shepherd decided to draft an undersized, fat power forward. What a fail.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 56,613
And1: 9,957
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#29 » by nate33 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:27 pm

Shoe wrote:
nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:So they gave up Schofield and 37 for Memphis 2024 2nd rounder and 53 in this draft.

Interesting

Interesting. My guess is that Schofield was more of a liability in that transaction, not a sweetener. Schofield wasn't going to amount to anything as a pro. Frankly, it was a mistake to give him guaranteed money in his second year.

It'll be nice to have that roster spot.

I'm disappointed that we're not getting back OKC's 2021 pick. That Memphis 2024 pick is likely to be pretty low.


Bummer. I'm assuming to open that roster spot they would have had to eat the $1.5 and $1.7 mil the next two seasons? All 3 years were guaranteed?

Third year was a team option, but the 2nd year was guaranteed.
NatP4
General Manager
Posts: 8,622
And1: 2,287
Joined: Jul 24, 2016
         

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#30 » by NatP4 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:41 pm

Schofield never made sense to me. Terrence Mann and Jalen Mcdaniels, and obviously Bol Bol all went after him too. Atleast they bought that 2ND round pick though. Can’t remember the last time they purchased a pick before that.
User avatar
gambitx777
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,204
And1: 577
Joined: Dec 18, 2012

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#31 » by gambitx777 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:41 pm

I really enjoy the move here good pick up on a low cost long shot that opens a spot for the team to maybe sign mathews to a full spot. The kids numbers were good but his metrics are bad. Maybe they like his heart and work ethic and think he can out work his poor metrics, maybe. If he works hard he can get stronger faster. Maybe he gets with the a pro heath and fitness team and he improves some of those metrics, let's see. Body is easy to improve, his skills are good, he needs to put work in the gym and in the kitchen.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
Ed Wood
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,677
And1: 212
Joined: Feb 11, 2005
Location: I appreciate Kevin Seraphin's affinity for hacks
Contact:
   

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#32 » by Ed Wood » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:47 pm

Let's not besmirch Schofield - he's bad not fat.
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 56,613
And1: 9,957
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#33 » by nate33 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:18 pm

I didn't have a problem with the Schofield pick. Late 2nd rounders are always a crapshoot. I just don't understand why they guaranteed him that 2nd year. It should have been a 3 year deal with the 2nd and 3rd year team options. That's what most 2nd round picks get.
DCZards
General Manager
Posts: 7,929
And1: 2,303
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Location: The Streets of DC

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#34 » by DCZards » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:29 am

Seth Davis on Twitter: “I'll say it again. Cassius Winston was the best player in the toughest conference in the country.”
Chaos Revenant
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,730
And1: 118
Joined: May 22, 2007

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#35 » by Chaos Revenant » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:58 am

nate33 wrote:I didn't have a problem with the Schofield pick. Late 2nd rounders are always a crapshoot. I just don't understand why they guaranteed him that 2nd year. It should have been a 3 year deal with the 2nd and 3rd year team options. That's what most 2nd round picks get.


Process and vision. Yes late 2nds are a crapshoot. But I'd rather shoot my shot on a guy with #1 pick potential thats only being held back by a busted body than someone who doesn't have the talent at all.
User avatar
gambitx777
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,204
And1: 577
Joined: Dec 18, 2012

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#36 » by gambitx777 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:42 am

nate33 wrote:I didn't have a problem with the Schofield pick. Late 2nd rounders are always a crapshoot. I just don't understand why they guaranteed him that 2nd year. It should have been a 3 year deal with the 2nd and 3rd year team options. That's what most 2nd round picks get.
I am with you on this one. But team spot for mathews


Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
Kanyewest
General Manager
Posts: 7,936
And1: 1,378
Joined: Jul 05, 2004

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#37 » by Kanyewest » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:59 am

Ruzious wrote:
queridiculo wrote:
ElectricMayhem wrote:He doesn't really have an NBA body, much like Mateen Cleaves was in that respect, but unlike Cleaves, Winston can shoot lights out. He's also, as has been mentioned in this thread, very high character and very intelligent. He has an old-man-at-the-Y type of game. I'm not sold on him as an NBA player, but I really hope he makes it.


NBA bodies can be made easier than a jumper.

He reminds me quite a bit of Lowry, who struggled getting himself into peak physical condition for years.

Lowry always had mass, his primary struggle was with fitness.

Winston on the other hand needs to cut down and bulk up, with the latter possibly helping his defense.

He's not a bad defender, he just gets pushed around too easily.

Lowry was actually a great defender when he entered the Association - couldn't shoot much at the time.


Yup- shooting was his biggest weakness coming in (also arguing with coaches). Lowry was also a very good rebounder early on and a very good athlete with excellent strength and quickness when he came into the league. Also he had more potential coming in at only 20- mocks had him as a top 3 pick had he stayed another year at Villanova.

Even before Lowry really improved his conditioning in the 2015 offseason, he still made the all star team before that . He was also a bit of headcase- which made him harder to coach but at the same time played with a kind of intensity that was hard to replicate.
User avatar
Kanyewest
General Manager
Posts: 7,936
And1: 1,378
Joined: Jul 05, 2004

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#38 » by Kanyewest » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:00 am

Johnathan Giovany on the Lowe post said that he had Winston as a higher rated prospect than Haliburton- which was good enough for his 25th rated player.
DCZards
General Manager
Posts: 7,929
And1: 2,303
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Location: The Streets of DC

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#39 » by DCZards » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:28 pm

This is from The Athletic:
Cassius Winston goes to the Washington Wizards: Here’s what they’re getting

By Brendan Quinn Nov 18, 2020

Perhaps Rocket Watts, a Michigan State teammate, summed things up best. On the surface, Cassius Winston is as likable and approachable as a star athlete can be. On the court, he doesn’t talk smack or showboat or make it about himself. At the same time, though, Winston is a cold-blooded, calculating point guard who plays at his own pace and embarrasses opponents with a level of meticulous cruelty that defies his otherwise endearing disposition. The key is not to let the politeness fool you. As Watts put it: “That’s Cassius Winston, bro. He’s a bad-ass mother …”

And that’s what the Washington Wizards are getting after arranging a draft-night trade with the Oklahoma City Thunder, who picked Winston with the No. 53 pick.

Winston’s career at Michigan State stacks up with the likes of Magic Johnson and Mateen Cleaves. He led the Spartans to three straight Big Ten championships and a 2019 Final Four appearance. He would’ve done more if the 2019-20 season had never skidded to a halt. He scored 1,969 points and handed out a Big Ten-record 890 assists in 139 career games.
As an NBA player, Winston is difficult to peg, but worthy of betting on. His court vision is at the highest level and, if grouped with talented players, he will be an elite distributor. He’s a brilliant decision-maker in ball-screen situations and spaces the floor as a career 43 percent 3-point shooter. He has an inordinately deep bag of tricks, scoring with a variety of scoops and floaters and runners and bank shots and contorted layups. He has an endless supply of hiccups and hesitations that keep defenders off balance. He anticipates action and sees the game at a different speed.

This summer, three of the four NBA personnel members interviewed about Winston’s pro prospects compared his game to that of Monte Morris.

There are reasons, though, that Winston wasn’t taken higher than the 53rd pick in the draft after an All-America career. How he translates defensively is a significant concern. Izzo essentially tried to hide Winston on that end of the court, as much as possible. He’s crafty on offense, but not particularly quick on defense. He’s not a great athlete. He’s listed at 6-foot-1, but can’t dunk. He has struggled at times with knee tendinitis and had to receive platelet-rich plasma therapy.

When it comes to Winston, the talent overrides the physical shortcomings. “I’m going to get there and I’m going to find a way to stick and I’m going to find a way to make things happen,” Winston said. “Because that’s what I do. That’s been the story of my life. I’m going to figure out a way.”

In a virtuoso performance against Michigan, Winston scored or assisted on 20 of Michigan State’s 28 made field goals and finished with 32 points and nine assists. He was at his best down the stretch when the Spartans finished the regular season with wins over four straight ranked teams (No. 18 Iowa, No. 9 Maryland, No. 20 Penn State and No. 19 Ohio State) for the first time in 30 years. He averaged 20.3 points on 61.9 percent shooting and 7.0 assists per game in this stretch. In the finale against Ohio State, needing a win to clinch a share of the Big Ten championship, he scored 15 of his 27 points on 6-of-8 shooting, including 3-of-5 3-pointers, in the second half.

https://theathletic.com/2201477/
Ruzious
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 42,051
And1: 7,512
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#40 » by Ruzious » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:45 pm

By midseason, he might beat out Ish for the backup job behind Wall. And I think it's clear now that Napier will not be re-signed - especially if they use TBJ in the backcourt.
"Look, you never know when you may need to borrow a cup of sugar, maybe some milk or a handgun" - Dan C. from Texas

Return to Washington Wizards