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Cassius Winston Thread

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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#41 » by nate33 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:48 pm

DCZards wrote:This is from The Athletic:
There are reasons, though, that Winston wasn’t taken higher than the 53rd pick in the draft after an All-America career. How he translates defensively is a significant concern. Izzo essentially tried to hide Winston on that end of the court, as much as possible. He’s crafty on offense, but not particularly quick on defense. He’s not a great athlete. He’s listed at 6-foot-1, but can’t dunk. He has struggled at times with knee tendinitis and had to receive platelet-rich plasma therapy.

I hate to be That Guy, but I'm going to focus on this paragraph. The dude is 6-1 and unathletic. They had to hide him defensively at the college level. He'll be a disaster defensively in the NBA. That's going to make him unplayable against starting caliber competition in any game that matters. He may get by during the dog days of February as a bench player against teams that haven't bothered to scout him, but that's about it. As I said, he's a 3rd string PG.

Again, I'm not hating. Expecting to get a legit NBA rotation player with the #53 pick is a tall order.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#42 » by nate33 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:51 pm

Ruzious wrote:By midseason, he might beat out Ish for the backup job behind Wall.

I seriously doubt it. I think he'll get minutes as Ish's backup in games that Wall sits out. That's about it.


Ruzious wrote:And I think it's clear now that Napier will not be re-signed - especially if they use TBJ in the backcourt.

Yup. If we spend the full MLE on a defensive big, we're not going to have the luxtax room to throw $3-4M at Napier.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#43 » by Ruzious » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:56 pm

nate33 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:By midseason, he might beat out Ish for the backup job behind Wall.

I seriously doubt it. I think he'll get minutes as Ish's backup in games that Wall sits out. That's about it.

He's a 4 year starter - pretty much fully developed. And what he clearly has way over Ish is the ability to shoot. Ish gets on some hot streaks, but otherwise can't shoot unless left wide open, and that can lose his job. It won't happen early in the year, but I can see it happen around midseason.

Also, Winston's a very long-armed player. We're not talking about the next Isaiah Thomas tiny player.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#44 » by doclinkin » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:59 pm

nate33 wrote:
DCZards wrote:This is from The Athletic:
There are reasons, though, that Winston wasn’t taken higher than the 53rd pick in the draft after an All-America career. How he translates defensively is a significant concern. Izzo essentially tried to hide Winston on that end of the court, as much as possible. He’s crafty on offense, but not particularly quick on defense. He’s not a great athlete. He’s listed at 6-foot-1, but can’t dunk. He has struggled at times with knee tendinitis and had to receive platelet-rich plasma therapy.

I hate to be That Guy, but I'm going to focus on this paragraph. The dude is 6-1 and unathletic. They had to hide him defensively at the college level. He'll be a disaster defensively in the NBA. That's going to make him unplayable against starting caliber competition in any game that matters. He may get by during the dog days of February as a bench player against teams that haven't bothered to scout him, but that's about it. As I said, he's a 3rd string PG.

Again, I'm not hating. Expecting to get a legit NBA rotation player with the #53 pick is a tall order.


I don't really care. I think he will be a good locker room cat and will have some skills and savvy to teach by example in practice. He really worked the Pick and Screen game well with his bigs as a Spartan. If he has techniques for our young raw talent, I can see them learning swiftly as he teaches them the timing and proper technique. That will pay dividends. I can see Troy in particular learning ideas from how Cash runs things in practice.

Really I wish our GLeague team was like minor league baseball where every player had a contract with us and we could groom them to jump to the Bigs. The 2way player thing doesn't quite do it. It would help to have a savvy tough smart PG teaching young raw talent to win at the lower level.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#45 » by DCZards » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:03 pm

I'm a fan of Winston's heady, old school PG play. But his best asset may turn out to be as a 3pt shooter and floor spreader, especially when he's on the court with some combo of Wall, Beal, Bertans, Bryant and Mathews.

I agree that his D will be a liability at times. But guys like Winston are classic overachievers. He'll find a way to be a regular contributor in the NBA...and make his Motor City homies proud.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#46 » by nate33 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:06 pm

doclinkin wrote:
nate33 wrote:
DCZards wrote:This is from The Athletic:

I hate to be That Guy, but I'm going to focus on this paragraph. The dude is 6-1 and unathletic. They had to hide him defensively at the college level. He'll be a disaster defensively in the NBA. That's going to make him unplayable against starting caliber competition in any game that matters. He may get by during the dog days of February as a bench player against teams that haven't bothered to scout him, but that's about it. As I said, he's a 3rd string PG.

Again, I'm not hating. Expecting to get a legit NBA rotation player with the #53 pick is a tall order.


I don't really care. I think he will be a good locker room cat and will have some skills and savvy to teach by example in practice. He really worked the Pick and Screen game well with his bigs as a Spartan. If he has techniques for our young raw talent, I can see them learning swiftly as he teaches them the timing and proper technique. That will pay dividends. I can see Troy in particular learning ideas from how Cash runs things in practice.

Really I wish our GLeague team was like minor league baseball where every player had a contract with us and we could groom them to jump to the Bigs. The 2way player thing doesn't quite do it. It would help to have a savvy tough smart PG teaching young raw talent to win at the lower level.

Agree with all of this. Cassius can help us in other ways. I definitely like the idea of him with our G-League team, and his calm, smart demeanor play might allow him to play brief spurts in the NBA when other players are hurt or in foul trouble. That's a useful thing, particularly when it comes at such a low price.

All I'm saying is that his ceiling is too low for him to hold his own at the NBA level once there's a full scouting report out on him.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#47 » by AZNKidd » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:18 pm

I have no idea who this guy is, but if he has no defense and is basically an unathletic scorer with 3 point range, is he essentially an IT?
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#48 » by pcbothwel » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:53 pm

AZNKidd wrote:I have no idea who this guy is, but if he has no defense and is basically an unathletic scorer with 3 point range, is he essentially an IT?


He is the same size as Rozier and Colin Sexton... so no, he isnt IT.
And while he has a TERRIBLE vertical, his feet are actually not that slow and his IQ/Awareness are suberb. He will actually be a decent team defender, and his technique could allow him to skate by with poor athleticism.

As for his shooting, IT put up a 3%/FT% of 35%/72... Winston put up 43%/85%.
Winston is going to be a sniper. Not only are those percentages elite... those are also his career averages, which is a huge sample size.

Guys who shoot like that in college over the last 8-10 years against high level competition... Hield, McDermott, Valentine, Markus Howard... Bane is close.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#49 » by NatP4 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:55 pm

I don’t actually think that Winston is going to be a bad defender, you just would never make the claim that defense is his strength. It’s something that the nba world gets wrong all the time. We think chasedown blocks make a player a good defender. People are finally starting to realize that good defense from point guards is just giving effort in a pick and roll to closely trail your man and recover to him after the pick.

To me, Winston is competitive enough and smart enough to be a solid nba team defender. The 6’5 wingspan also helps.

Just remember, the best defensive PGs in the nba right now are guys like Lowry, Paul, Rubio, Beverley, Augustin (yes, actually), smart, Cory Joseph, brogdon, Jamal murray. Which one of those guys is an elite athlete with elite size???
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#50 » by NatP4 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:57 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
AZNKidd wrote:I have no idea who this guy is, but if he has no defense and is basically an unathletic scorer with 3 point range, is he essentially an IT?


He is the same size as Rozier and Colin Sexton... so no, he isnt IT.
And while he has a TERRIBLE vertical, his feet are actually not that slow and his IQ/Awareness are suberb. He will actually be a decent team defender, and his technique could allow him to skate by with poor athleticism.

As for his shooting, IT put up a 3%/FT% of 35%/72... Winston put up 43%/85%.
Winston is going to be a sniper. Not only are those percentages elite... those are also his career averages, which is a huge sample size.

Guys who shoot like that in college over the last 8-10 years against high level competition... Hield, McDermott, Valentine, Markus Howard... Bane is close.


You beat me to it. 48% from 2, 43% from 3, 84% from FT for his CAREER. Even more impressive is the 6.4 assists to 2.7 turnovers.

We need more discussion about Cassius Winston in here
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#51 » by Halcyon » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:24 am

He's the type of player whose stock would have gone up if the NCAA tourney happened. I think he can be a very solid backup.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#52 » by WallToWall » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:52 am


Here's another compilation.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#53 » by Dat2U » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:56 am

Nate is right. Guys are drafted in the 50s for a reason. And very few unless their foreign unknowns last long enough to have more than to a cup of tea. I don’t doubt Winston's ability to run a pick and roll or make open shots but PG is the toughest position to handle defensively. If your defending like Trae Young you need to have Trae Young offensive capabilities! Isaiah Thomas can walk out of bed and get a bucket but he's likely done b/c you simply can't hide some guys.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#54 » by truwizfan4evr » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:18 am

Dat2U wrote:Nate is right. Guys are drafted in the 50s for a reason. And very few unless their foreign unknowns last long enough to have more than to a cup of tea. I don’t doubt Winston's ability to run a pick and roll or make open shots but PG is the toughest position to handle defensively. If your defending like Trae Young you need to have Trae Young offensive capabilities! Isaiah Thomas can walk out of bed and get a bucket but he's likely done b/c you simply can't hide some guys.

can I just be happy about the draft picks and watch them play first before start criticizing them. Most wizards fans are split between the picks we made.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#55 » by gambitx777 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:23 am

On a team where you're starting point guard is going to sit a good bit of you can get a playable 3 strong guy as a rookie at 53 that's a good pick up. I'm not expecting him to start it be amazing but he might be playable! And you dumped a player you needed to dump all at the cost of a euro guy that was 2 years away form being a year away. Good pick up .

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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#56 » by mhd » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:25 am

He's headed to the G-League. Its impossible to be a small unathletic PG and survive in the NBA.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#57 » by truwizfan4evr » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:43 am

mhd wrote:He's headed to the G-League. Its impossible to be a small unathletic PG and survive in the NBA.

He’s taller than vanvleet. What about Chris Paul?
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#58 » by DCZards » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:13 am

Winston can ball. He's going to surprise a lot of people.

I urge you to check out the video posted above. It's Winston's highlights in all of Mich. St.'s games last season. It's 20 mins long but worth it.

CW is quick, has a great handle, gets to the basket, and drops some nasty dimes, especially on PnR. He hits 3s off the dribble, off picks, on step backs, off the break, etc. Kid can really shoot the 3 ball. He gets it off quickly, which helps given his size.

With the ball in his hands, Winston makes up for his so-called lack of athleticism with a slick set of hesitation and change of pace moves that usually leaves defenders flat footed.

Yes, I know there are two ends to the court. And I expect CW to struggle on D. But it won't be because of lack of awareness or lack of effort. But, on offense, Winston has a ton of skills that will translate well to the NBA level.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#59 » by Ruzious » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:11 pm

mhd wrote:He's headed to the G-League. Its impossible to be a small unathletic PG and survive in the NBA.

VanVleet's short and unathletic.
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Re: Cassius Winston Thread 

Post#60 » by Ruzious » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:13 pm

DCZards wrote:Winston can ball. He's going to surprise a lot of people.

I urge you to check out the video posted above. It's Winston's highlights in all of Mich. St.'s games last season. It's 20 mins long but worth it.

CW is quick, has a great handle, gets to the basket, and drops some nasty dimes, especially on PnR. He hits 3s off the dribble, off picks, on step backs, off the break, etc. Kid can really shoot the 3 ball. He gets it off quickly, which helps given his size.

With the ball in his hands, Winston makes up for his so-called lack of athleticism with a slick set of hesitation and change of pace moves that usually leaves defenders flat footed.

Yes, I know there are two ends to the court. And I expect CW to struggle on D. But it won't be because of lack of awareness or lack of effort. But, on offense, Winston has a ton of skills that will translate well to the NBA level.

Also, I think you have to watch him to realize how good a shooter he is. And shooting is the key for a lot of players - as to whether or not they stick in the NBA.
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