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Shams: Wall wants to be traded

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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#101 » by Wizardspride » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:33 pm

dlts20 wrote:
nate33 wrote:I'd like to know the full story. Why exactly does Wall want to be traded? Is it just because there were trade talks with Houston about Westbrook? Is it because Sheppard and the team seemed mildly concerned when Wall flashed those gang signs?

These seem like fairly trivial issues to me. Sure, Wall may be somewhat unhappy, but it's not like most players are entirely happy in their situation, unless they're winning championships. Does Wall think a trade to Houston will make him happy? How happy was Chris Paul there? How happy was Westbrook?

It just doesn't seem like anything that has happened should be irreconcilable. I'd definitely wait before doing anything rash. Get out there and play some games and see what happens.

Trivial is people who can't relate to Wall judging him on some gang signs after all he's done in the community. That wasn't something to crucify the guy for.

Then people are comparing how he handles trade rumors compared to Beal when it's night and day. Beal handles them better because they are always positive rumors where he is seen as a star being brought in somewhere to win a championship and the Wiz won't get equal value in return.

Walls trades are in a negative light where we are trying to dump him by any means for a guy who has been a malcontent everywhere. This is after you have publicly been saying nothing but great things about Wall. I just think that he feels backstabbed and like a slap in the face



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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#102 » by nate33 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:34 pm

NatP4 wrote:
nate33 wrote:
prime1time wrote:Let me put it another way. It's Wall or it's Brad. Because keeping a disgruntled Wall will sabotage the season. So if you want to keep Wall and the assets it would take to move him, then you move Brad and go into a rebuild. Otherwise, you try to minimize the damage and move on.

Do you think Brad would be happy when you told him that we just traded away three future 1sts just to dump a contract?

Hey Brad: "The team you have (sans Wall) is the team you're going to have for the remainder of your career. We've got no future assets to get better."



It’s not going to take three 1st round picks to move Wall. They could simply move him for equally bad contracts and it’s a good move. It’s a culture related issue. It has to happen.

What equally bad contracts? Find me a trade.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#103 » by prime1time » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:37 pm

The notion that Beal was just going to sit around and watch Wall pound the rock like it's 2016 was always laughable. I think we have to wait and see and figure out what's out there. But I'd trade him for nothing if I could.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#104 » by dlts20 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:37 pm

prime1time wrote:
dlts20 wrote:
nate33 wrote:I'd like to know the full story. Why exactly does Wall want to be traded? Is it just because there were trade talks with Houston about Westbrook? Is it because Sheppard and the team seemed mildly concerned when Wall flashed those gang signs?

These seem like fairly trivial issues to me. Sure, Wall may be somewhat unhappy, but it's not like most players are entirely happy in their situation, unless they're winning championships. Does Wall think a trade to Houston will make him happy? How happy was Chris Paul there? How happy was Westbrook?

It just doesn't seem like anything that has happened should be irreconcilable. I'd definitely wait before doing anything rash. Get out there and play some games and see what happens.

Trivial is people who can't relate to Wall judging him on some gang signs after all he's done in the community. That wasn't something to crucify the guy for.

Then people are comparing how he handles trade rumors compared to Beal when it's night and day. Beal handles them better because they are always positive rumors where he is seen as a star being brought in somewhere to win a championship and the Wiz won't get equal value in return.

Walls trades are in a negative light where we are trying to dump him by any means for a guy who has been a malcontent everywhere. This is after you have publicly been saying nothing but great things about Wall. I just think that he feels backstabbed and like a slap in the face

That's all well and true but the reality is that the league has left Wall behind. I said that 4 years ago, I said it 3 years ago and I'm going to say it again now. We should have traded Wall a long time ago. I understand his frustration but the deeper issue is that ball-dominant lead guard that can't shoot well don't win in the playoffs. It is that simple.

Yeah but sometimes you have to hit rock bottom and get away from the game. I actually think that Wall would come back with a higher IQ and better 3 ball
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#105 » by nate33 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:37 pm

prime1time wrote:First it was two 1st's now it's 3 1st's. The reality is you have no clue what's on the market. But the writing is on the wall no? If we can't trade Wall and still keep Brad, then the Brad Wall era is over and we need to rebuild. Sometimes you are constrained by reality. Keeping Wall and have him adjust to not dominating the ball was always a pipe dream. I can't think of one player in history who had such a dramatic change. But yes the challenge facing Sheppard is great and one way or another it will likely be a defining moment for the organization.

Three 1sts to dump him for an expiring like Batum
Two 1sts to trade him for another overpaid-but-good player on a shorter contract like Griffin.
One 1st to trade him for an overpaid-but-good player with an equal contract and attitude problems like Westbrook.
No 1sts to trade him for an even worse contract like Klay Thompson.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#106 » by prime1time » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:45 pm

dlts20 wrote:
prime1time wrote:
dlts20 wrote:Trivial is people who can't relate to Wall judging him on some gang signs after all he's done in the community. That wasn't something to crucify the guy for.

Then people are comparing how he handles trade rumors compared to Beal when it's night and day. Beal handles them better because they are always positive rumors where he is seen as a star being brought in somewhere to win a championship and the Wiz won't get equal value in return.

Walls trades are in a negative light where we are trying to dump him by any means for a guy who has been a malcontent everywhere. This is after you have publicly been saying nothing but great things about Wall. I just think that he feels backstabbed and like a slap in the face

That's all well and true but the reality is that the league has left Wall behind. I said that 4 years ago, I said it 3 years ago and I'm going to say it again now. We should have traded Wall a long time ago. I understand his frustration but the deeper issue is that ball-dominant lead guard that can't shoot well don't win in the playoffs. It is that simple.

Yeah but sometimes you have to hit rock bottom and get away from the game. I actually think that Wall would come back with a higher IQ and better 3 ball

That was the hope, but I think the issue with Wall is that he's so lazer focused on public perception. If I had confidence he could be Kyle Lowry take a step back, become less ball-dominant, and fit into a ball movement offense I'd be for it. But I think he's just too committed to getting his 20-10.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#107 » by NatP4 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:50 pm

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
nate33 wrote:Do you think Brad would be happy when you told him that we just traded away three future 1sts just to dump a contract?

Hey Brad: "The team you have (sans Wall) is the team you're going to have for the remainder of your career. We've got no future assets to get better."



It’s not going to take three 1st round picks to move Wall. They could simply move him for equally bad contracts and it’s a good move. It’s a culture related issue. It has to happen.

What equally bad contracts? Find me a trade.


There are plenty of bad ones out there. Something centered around Blake Griffin or Harrison Barnes, the magic have nothing but awful contracts, the Mavericks have some bad ones. Nurkic is Portland is pretty bad.

Do not tell me that the wizards would have to attach three 1sts to move Wall for Blake Griffin. They could do Wall for Ross, Gordon, and Aminu from Orlando.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#108 » by nate33 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:52 pm

NatP4 wrote:They could do Wall for Ross, Gordon, and Aminu from Orlando.

No they couldn't. Try that on the Trade Board.

I'd love that trade!
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#109 » by nate33 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:54 pm

NatP4 wrote:There are plenty of bad ones out there. Something centered around Blake Griffin or Harrison Barnes, the magic have nothing but awful contracts, the Mavericks have some bad ones. Nurkic is Portland is pretty bad.

It would still take us throwing 1st rounders in to execute those trades.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#110 » by NatP4 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:54 pm

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:They could do Wall for Ross, Gordon, and Aminu from Orlando.

No they couldn't. Try that on the Trade Board.

I'd love that trade!



Fine, add Jerome Robinson or whatever.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#111 » by nate33 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:55 pm

NatP4 wrote:
nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:They could do Wall for Ross, Gordon, and Aminu from Orlando.

No they couldn't. Try that on the Trade Board.

I'd love that trade!



Fine, add Jerome Robinson or whatever.

And two first round picks.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#112 » by NatP4 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:05 pm

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:
nate33 wrote:No they couldn't. Try that on the Trade Board.

I'd love that trade!



Fine, add Jerome Robinson or whatever.

And two first round picks.


We do not know the market. I seriously doubt that would be the case. All three of those magic players are awful. It’s basically a wash for the next 2 years, then Orlando eats 20 mill in year 3, and about 30 mill in that final year. So does John wall have enough all star/marketing/injury comeback potential to offset the eating of 30 mill by Orlando in the final year? Probably not, but there is no way they would ask for multiple 1sts. IMO. Maybe one 1st at the most.

I spend about 5 minutes playing with the trade machine to throw that one out there, there are more options Im sure.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#113 » by Meliorus » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:05 pm

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Aldridge is now pushing the narrative that Wall and Beal don’t want to play with each other anymore, and saying it can’t be salvaged. I wonder how true this is, but he is an insider and very confident.

For those who think Wall is untradable, why was Conley traded for assets?
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#114 » by NatP4 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:09 pm

No moving 1st round picks to move Wall. I would move one of Brown Jr or Hachimura, or some combination of 2nd round picks and Wagner and Robinson, but not much more than that.

I think the end scenario might be Brown Jr+2021 2nd+Wall for Westbrook or Griffin.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#115 » by prime1time » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:11 pm

All this untradable talk is way too premature. Also, I'd trade Wall for Klay in a heartbeat. Let's see how things develop. I am much more inclined to move a player we already have, like Bonga and Wagner or almost anything really than move a pick.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#116 » by FAH1223 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:29 pm

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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#117 » by NatP4 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:31 pm

So are we putting this on Sheppard still? Or do we believe Aldridge reports saying Beal and Wall don’t wanna play together anymore?
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#118 » by pcbothwel » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:34 pm

NatP4 wrote:
nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:

Fine, add Jerome Robinson or whatever.

And two first round picks.


We do not know the market. I seriously doubt that would be the case. All three of those magic players are awful. It’s basically a wash for the next 2 years, then Orlando eats 20 mill in year 3, and about 30 mill in that final year. So does John wall have enough all star/marketing/injury comeback potential to offset the eating of 30 mill by Orlando in the final year? Probably not, but there is no way they would ask for multiple 1sts. IMO. Maybe one 1st at the most.

I spend about 5 minutes playing with the trade machine to throw that one out there, there are more options Im sure.


Im just not buying the albatross contract thing with Wall, or most players anymore.
This was the supposed to be the down year where all the FA's get screwed... yet a rotational wing/forward with negative On/Off number for most of his career, including last year, gets 3/60M in Jerami Grant?!?

Another journeyman wing/forward that doesnt rebound, averages more turnovers than assist, and also has really bad On/Off numbers over the last 3-4 years in Marcus Morris gets 4/64M at the age of 31!?!

Sorry, not buying it anymore.

Remember, we can bring in a 3rd team to help with the pick. I.E.
- Wall + protected 1st to Orlando (I think a great fit)
- Aminu + Fultz + [Filler] to Wiz
- Aaron Gordon to 3rd team, with the 3rd team sending out protected 1st and bad contract for Gordon.

3rd Team/Filler could be: Memphis - Dieng, Nuggets - Harris, Houston - Eric Gordon, etc.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#119 » by prime1time » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:38 pm

NatP4 wrote:So are we putting this on Sheppard still? Or do we believe Aldridge reports saying Beal and Wall don’t wanna play together anymore?

I think Wall doesn't want to be here unless he's the man. He could easily stay here and be just any other player but obviously, that's a problem for him. This goes to the larger point that is the reason that Wall and Beal can't co-exist is because Wall refuses to. This was always going to be a ticking time bomb. I take it back to 2.5 years ago.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#120 » by pcbothwel » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:51 pm

prime1time wrote:
NatP4 wrote:So are we putting this on Sheppard still? Or do we believe Aldridge reports saying Beal and Wall don’t wanna play together anymore?

I think Wall doesn't want to be here unless he's the man. He could easily stay here and be just any other player but obviously, that's a problem for him. This goes to the larger point that is the reason that Wall and Beal can't co-exist is because Wall refuses to. This was always going to be a ticking time bomb. I take it back to 2.5 years ago.
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Why are we disregarding everything Wall has said over the last 3-6 months? He has had a number of interviews stating that Beal has proven to be the man and how he is looking to evolve his game off ball.

Im sure he is upset in some way about the Westbrook talk, but I think this is being blown way out of proportion.

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