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Shams: Wall wants to be traded

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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#121 » by Wizardspride » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:54 pm

prime1time wrote:
NatP4 wrote:So are we putting this on Sheppard still? Or do we believe Aldridge reports saying Beal and Wall don’t wanna play together anymore?

I think Wall doesn't want to be here unless he's the man. He could easily stay here and be just any other player but obviously, that's a problem for him. This goes to the larger point that is the reason that Wall and Beal can't co-exist is because Wall refuses to. This was always going to be a ticking time bomb. I take it back to 2.5 years ago.

I don't think it's about John wanting to be "the man" per se.


I think it's about way Tommy has been describing his future role.

At times, Tommy would have you think John is "Ish Smith" (a bench/role player).

So yeah, I get exactly where John is coming from.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#122 » by prime1time » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:57 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
prime1time wrote:
NatP4 wrote:So are we putting this on Sheppard still? Or do we believe Aldridge reports saying Beal and Wall don’t wanna play together anymore?

I think Wall doesn't want to be here unless he's the man. He could easily stay here and be just any other player but obviously, that's a problem for him. This goes to the larger point that is the reason that Wall and Beal can't co-exist is because Wall refuses to. This was always going to be a ticking time bomb. I take it back to 2.5 years ago.
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Why are we disregarding everything Wall has said over the last 3-6 months? He has had a number of interviews stating that Beal has proven to be the man and how he is looking to evolve his game off ball.

Im sure he is upset in some way about the Westbrook talk, but I think this is being blown way out of proportion.

Wall wanted it to be him and Beal. It's not. It's Beal's team.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#123 » by dlts20 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:58 pm

I love DA but I just can't believe this to be the case after all of this time that they have been giving each other props. Even the worst John Wall is still pass 1st at heart and I think would love to play with a guy who can average 30. It's also not like we have a Super team where just because Beal eats, means that Wall will only get 5 shots a game or something. He basically can still shoot anytime he wants and can have the ball anytime Brad doesn't.

Also Wall has been out 2 years, will be on somewhat of a minutes restriction, and will not be playing b2bs so I just can't believe that Wall would have a problem leaning on Beal, especially right now. I just think that Wall has a problem with the organization and maybe coaching but not playing with Brad who would compliment him perfectly, especially since he's been practicing a ton of off the ball 3s.

Also, I still think that Wall at his best is better and more impactful than Brad. I wouldn't be shocked to see that play out
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#124 » by WizarDynasty » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:01 pm

Wall is an Icon in, but point guards without a quick release 3 point shot like a curry or damian lillard three point shot are dinosaurs. 3 point shots basically count as "And 1" weapon of bigmen. Wall has never been able to reliably hit the three point shot off a pick and roll. That is a point guards most deadly weapon. It's also the reason why Russell Westbrook is available. Every 3 point shot made is like a completed and 1 whistle called by a ref.
Beal has it, Wall does not.
Beal's handle is better than Walls.
Wall is not elite with his lateral defense or even above average. He has never made the all nba defense team like Jason Kidd did. He has straight line speed but no lateral agility acceleration speed defensively. and his ankle issues means he is going to be even worse defensively.
When we gave Wall hte contract, we hedge a bet that Wall's body could quickly recover and that it was just a matter of time before we started to see Allen Iverson like speed and moves.
It just never happened.
Wall never developed the abilty to stop and go and control his momentum. He is basically pure straight line speed and that style loses against players who have Kyrie Irving handles and 3 point shooting off the dribble.
Beal has developed more into a Kyrie and Wall was more of Westbrook.
Kyrie style is far more valuable because his high percentage three point shooter, Westbrook is horrible three point shoot off dribble just like Wall.
At this point, I would consider trading a lottery protected future first to get Westbrook over Wall. They both have the same limitation but Westbrook has a better attitude than Wall and that counts for alot.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#125 » by DCZards » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:21 pm

dlts20 wrote:I love DA but I just can't believe this to be the case after all of this time that they have been giving each other props. Even the worst John Wall is still pass 1st at heart and I think would love to play with a guy who can average 30. It's also not like we have a Super team where just because Beal eats, means that Wall will only get 5 shots a game or something. He basically can still shoot anytime he wants and can have the ball anytime Brad doesn't.

Also Wall has been out 2 years, will be on somewhat of a minutes restriction, and will not be playing b2bs so I just can't believe that Wall would have a problem leaning on Beal, especially right now. I just think that Wall has a problem with the organization and maybe coaching but not playing with Brad who would compliment him perfectly, especially since he's been practicing a ton of off the ball 3s.

Also, I still think that Wall at his best is better and more impactful than Brad. I wouldn't be shocked to see that play out

I agree with this. I don't think it's primarily about issues between Wall and Beal. It's much more likely to be Wall's frustration with the Zards organization. Wall was probably miffed when Tommy says they're building around Beal (instead of saying Beal and Wall) and then tries to trade Wallstar for Westbrook.

I'm also betting that Wall was ready and willing to come back and play second fiddle to Brad on the court. He needs Beal and Beal needs him.

The issues that led to Wall demanding a trade can--and will probably be--resolved without a trade. Of course I may be wrong, but I expect to see JW in a Zards uni when the season opens next month.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#126 » by prime1time » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:10 pm

dlts20 wrote:I love DA but I just can't believe this to be the case after all of this time that they have been giving each other props. Even the worst John Wall is still pass 1st at heart and I think would love to play with a guy who can average 30. It's also not like we have a Super team where just because Beal eats, means that Wall will only get 5 shots a game or something. He basically can still shoot anytime he wants and can have the ball anytime Brad doesn't.

Also Wall has been out 2 years, will be on somewhat of a minutes restriction, and will not be playing b2bs so I just can't believe that Wall would have a problem leaning on Beal, especially right now. I just think that Wall has a problem with the organization and maybe coaching but not playing with Brad who would compliment him perfectly, especially since he's been practicing a ton of off the ball 3s.

Also, I still think that Wall at his best is better and more impactful than Brad. I wouldn't be shocked to see that play out

Well, we'll agree to disagree. Wall at his best is a ball dominant, ball movement stopping player. The offense you run with him is completely different than what Sheppard is trying to create. Which is basically any player can initiate the offense. Could Wall reinvent himself? Perhaps. But it is very unlikely. And I've seen all the highlights. His release is still very slow. Beal last year was better than Wall ever was and Beal is still getting better. The suggestion that Wall would come back better after being gone for 2 years was never really realistic. But the even deeper question is how much does he have left in the tank? Especially given the fact that his game so based around his athleticism...
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#127 » by dlts20 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:30 pm

prime1time wrote:
dlts20 wrote:I love DA but I just can't believe this to be the case after all of this time that they have been giving each other props. Even the worst John Wall is still pass 1st at heart and I think would love to play with a guy who can average 30. It's also not like we have a Super team where just because Beal eats, means that Wall will only get 5 shots a game or something. He basically can still shoot anytime he wants and can have the ball anytime Brad doesn't.

Also Wall has been out 2 years, will be on somewhat of a minutes restriction, and will not be playing b2bs so I just can't believe that Wall would have a problem leaning on Beal, especially right now. I just think that Wall has a problem with the organization and maybe coaching but not playing with Brad who would compliment him perfectly, especially since he's been practicing a ton of off the ball 3s.

Also, I still think that Wall at his best is better and more impactful than Brad. I wouldn't be shocked to see that play out

Well, we'll agree to disagree. Wall at his best is a ball dominant, ball movement stopping player. The offense you run with him is completely different than what Sheppard is trying to create. Which is basically any player can initiate the offense. Could Wall reinvent himself? Perhaps. But it is very unlikely. And I've seen all the highlights. His release is still very slow. Beal last year was better than Wall ever was and Beal is still getting better. The suggestion that Wall would come back better after being gone for 2 years was never really realistic. But the even deeper question is how much does he have left in the tank? Especially given the fact that his game so based around his athleticism...

Tbf, I never thought this was all Walls fault. For most of his career he had Flip, Witt, Brooks, and assistants like Cassell who all basically coached wall to play like he was Cassell or Billups. Always coached to take the long 2. Wall is probably the #1 player in the league who needs to play either with a small lineup or stretch bigs.. He's hardly ever had the floor open. The lane was always clogged with traditional bigs. I would like to see him with a better offensive coach and the floor spread. I think that despite Brooks, he could have looked great with Beal, Beltran, and Bryant. That would be something he's gotten to do much in his career and that would probably be his best style. Now Shep has screwed that up. I really think that he was excited to go and get his name back
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#128 » by dckingsfan » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:21 pm

Wizardspride wrote:I don't think it's about John wanting to be "the man" per se.

With respect. I actually think it is all about John wanting to be "the man". I think that is why the two events hit him so hard. That the team could be even considered Beal's and that the Wizards would ever consider trading him was just too much for his ego to absorb.

Now that he has demanded a trade, it might be easier for him to be second fiddle elsewhere?
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#129 » by Wizardspride » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:25 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:I don't think it's about John wanting to be "the man" per se.

With respect. I actually think it is all about John wanting to be "the man". I think that is why the two events hit him so hard. That the team could be even considered Beal's and that the Wizards would ever consider trading him was just too much for his ego to absorb.

Now that he has demanded a trade, it might be easier for him to be second fiddle elsewhere?

Wall has literally talked all summer about Bradley being the man and how much his game has grown etc.

Quite simply, I think it's the comments Tommy has been making and the trade talks that have John upset.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#130 » by dckingsfan » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:35 pm

Wizardspride wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:I don't think it's about John wanting to be "the man" per se.

With respect. I actually think it is all about John wanting to be "the man". I think that is why the two events hit him so hard. That the team could be even considered Beal's and that the Wizards would ever consider trading him was just too much for his ego to absorb.

Now that he has demanded a trade, it might be easier for him to be second fiddle elsewhere?

Wall has literally talked all summer about Bradley being the man and how much his game has grown etc.

Quite simply, I think it's the comments Tommy has been making and the trade talks that have John upset.

That's a good point. I missed that... Was it that Tommy actually said that out loud?

That there is a conversation about a trade shouldn't set a player off since there are always conversations, no?
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#131 » by Kanyewest » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:52 pm

I'm not very high on Westbrook but Wall getting traded for someone who has won MVP and just made an all NBA team shouldn't hurt his ego too much. The other guy who was traded for Westbrook was Chris Paul who just made an all star team. (Unless he dislikes Westbrook's game like many analysts which could be a fair criticism)

I think the situation is already not in great footing in Washington. Wall may also want to go to Houston where he is likely to be the guy especially if James Harden finds his way to another team.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#132 » by prime1time » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:37 pm

Wizardspride wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:I don't think it's about John wanting to be "the man" per se.

With respect. I actually think it is all about John wanting to be "the man". I think that is why the two events hit him so hard. That the team could be even considered Beal's and that the Wizards would ever consider trading him was just too much for his ego to absorb.

Now that he has demanded a trade, it might be easier for him to be second fiddle elsewhere?

Wall has literally talked all summer about Bradley being the man and how much his game has grown etc.

Quite simply, I think it's the comments Tommy has been making and the trade talks that have John upset.

Let’s be honest. Tommy doesn’t make that call without asking Beal first. So Beal has to say ok. It’s not just Tommy’s comments. It’s Beal’s team.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#133 » by doclinkin » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:30 am

prime1time wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:With respect. I actually think it is all about John wanting to be "the man". I think that is why the two events hit him so hard. That the team could be even considered Beal's and that the Wizards would ever consider trading him was just too much for his ego to absorb.

Now that he has demanded a trade, it might be easier for him to be second fiddle elsewhere?

Wall has literally talked all summer about Bradley being the man and how much his game has grown etc.

Quite simply, I think it's the comments Tommy has been making and the trade talks that have John upset.

Let’s be honest. Tommy doesn’t make that call without asking Beal first. So Beal has to say ok. It’s not just Tommy’s comments. It’s Beal’s team.


Not if Ted asks him to ask around. He might check with Beal if it looked likely, but GMs take calls every day most go nowhere. Zero chance he would risk a stray conversation between the two players if there was no deal likely. No this is on Ted, and Houston's toxic front office.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#134 » by Jimmy Recard » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:40 am

I’m scared Tommy is gonna do something stupid here. Like attaching Troy or Bonga and a ‘21 1st just to dump wall.

Somebody needs to get John’s boy Chris Miller to speak some sense into him. Give him the “this is the business we’ve chosen” speech.

Seriously f*ck the Houston FO for leaking the trade talks to Shams.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#135 » by JWizmentality » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:07 am

Wall needs some time to cool off. But Tommy and ownership needs to talk with him. But I don't see this situation as salvageable. Time to move on. Westbrook will be fun as hell to watch even with all the bricks.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#136 » by gambitx777 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:50 am

I don't blame tommy for this

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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#137 » by doclinkin » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:32 am

gambitx777 wrote:I don't blame tommy for this


I guess I don't any more, having heard that it was Ted who was furious about bla bla bla. But I do blame Ted if he told Tommy to see what he could do to trade John. After Wall had put up with years of Ernie and all the bs associated with this franchise.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#138 » by JAR69 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:06 pm

doclinkin wrote:Personally I think John Wall has shown pretty good character in being a good soldier for the organization. He was ready to come back last season, has been burning to do so, to find proper outlet for his years long frustration, but the scuttlebutt was the organization wanted no pushback from their insurance payment, so they sat him down even in the bubble when he wanted to play.


I wonder if this is an underrated part of Wall's desire to leave. He rehabbed for 18 months, thought he was ready to come back, and was playing in pickup games. He may have thought the bubble was a great chance to reintroduce himself to the league and the world. But the FO was worried about insurance and didn't want to drop out of the lottery by actually winning in Orlando, and held him out, claiming it was for his own good. But at the same time, they were stealthily shopping him - so maybe they held him out also to be certain he didn't get hurt again or look bad, scuttling any chance of a trade.

All this is speculation, but I could see it playing a part.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#139 » by Dark Faze » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:11 pm

Chris Miller is such a clown. Trolling Charlotte for the Hayward deal but of course saying nothing about the Wall situation.
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Re: Shams: Wall wants to be traded 

Post#140 » by bsilver » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:16 pm

Don't get the idea that Wiz are Beal's team. There's only a few like Lebron where that designation makes any sense. Beal's not a top 10 player in the league.

No way should Wall be traded now when his value is so low. Better to trade Beal when value is at it's highest. (at least it was before free agency). Having to give up future #1s to get rid of Wall will kill our prospects for several years.

Give John two choices. Preferred option is work it out. Second is play hard and show you're still allstar level, so a trade can bring back positive value.

Why would we want Russell Westbrook? We all saw how much he hurt Houston in the playoffs. Would rather look at other options.

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